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Inspiration

Interconnection and Karma: Whose Actions Shape Your Life?

BD
BSV Dhamma Talks
Oct 25, 2026
9 min de lecture

Source : BSV Dhamma Talks

À regarder · 8

Rain is hammering the roof, and the teacher is genuinely surprised that anyone made the trip. "I didn't think anybody would come cuz it was raining so much. So, so well done," the speaker says, before a good-humoured exchange about whether the nuns should be giving the talk instead. It is a small, unhurried opening, the kind you would expect from a community that meets in a centre in East Malvern, and it sets the tone for an hour-long talk published by BSV Dhamma Talks in October 2026 under the title "Interconnection: What does it mean for karma and responsibility?" The talk takes an idea now repeated everywhere in mindfulness and wellbeing circles, that all beings are interconnected, and presses it against one of the Buddha's most quoted teachings on karma. The question it keeps returning to is blunt: how much of what happens to us is the result of our own karma, and how much is the result of other people's? Rather than settle the matter with a slogan, the teacher builds the argument through an intuition pump, a worked example from the audience, and a string of hard cases, including theft, sickness and guilt.

Lecture · 7 sections

Why did "interconnectedness" sound too easy to this teacher?

The talk begins with a report from abroad. The teacher had just returned from nearly seven days in Korea, visiting Buddhist sites and attending a conference that brought together Buddhist scholars, contemplative scientists, clinical psychologists and mindfulness researchers. The conference theme was practical: how mindfulness and Buddhist thought might make society better, and how they might contribute to environmental change. Across the sessions, one word kept surfacing. Interconnectedness. Mindfulness, the speakers suggested, helps us become interconnected with other people.

The teacher's reaction was not enthusiasm but suspicion. "There's something about when everybody agrees on everything that I don't really like," the speaker says in the recording (BSV Dhamma Talks, around 3:49). That instinct is the engine of the whole talk. Interconnection is not wrong, the teacher implies, but a phrase that can be repeated by everyone has stopped doing any thinking. The useful move is to ask what it would mean to take it seriously, both in ordinary common sense and in the Buddhist frame of cause and effect.

What does the Buddha's teaching on karma actually claim?

The teacher anchors the discussion in a passage from the Anguttara Nikaya that most Buddhist students will recognise: "I am the owner of my karma, heir of my karma, born of my karma, related to my karma, and supported by my karma. Whatever karma I do, for good or for ill, I will be the heir of that." The teacher says this is a teaching "we all kind of know," and reads its practical core plainly. Personal intentions and personal actions matter, and they have consequences.

The difficulty comes from the other side of ordinary experience. Look at your life honestly, the teacher suggests, and it is clearly shaped by other people's decisions and actions. Then add the Buddhist idea of rebirth, which holds that present conditions are shaped by past karma. A familiar assumption follows: if someone wrongs you now, it must be the result of something you did before, and if something good comes your way, it must be the fruit of past generosity. The teacher calls this "sometimes an oversimplification," but notes that many people take it quite seriously. That tension, between a teaching that puts the ownership of action in the individual and a lived reality of thick interdependence, is the one the talk wants to explore.

Is everything that happens to you your own doing?

The teacher names two errors that mirror each other. The first is the interconnection fallacy, the vague sense that everything is shared so nothing is really anyone's responsibility. The second is quieter and, the teacher suggests, more common among sincere practitioners: the belief that we are the instigators of all action, that everything happening in our life is because of us and our karma. That view makes us "the centre of the universe," in the teacher's phrase. The talk asks listeners to land somewhere between these poles, and does not pretend the middle is comfortable.

The question is put precisely. If we are the heirs and owners of our karma, and our lives are also deeply interrelated with others, is our karma individual, shared, both, or neither? Each of those options has a different implication for how we would respond to suffering, and that is the point. A theory of karma is never only a theory. It shapes how we blame, how we forgive, and how we treat people in trouble.

How does an intuition pump work in a dhamma talk?

An intuition pump is a thought experiment designed to draw out the answer you already hold before you have examined it. The teacher uses one deliberately. Who has had something bad happen to them? Who believes that when something goes wrong there is a reason for it? Who has heard the phrase "everything happens for a reason"? Hands and voices come up from the room, and one member offers a counter-view: some things happen without any reason, simply because the conditions were bad.

The teacher pushes gently toward the more uncomfortable question. When something bad happens, do we take responsibility and think, this is because of something I did? That leads to the centrepiece of the early part of the talk: a real case from the audience. A listener recounts a previous business in which an employee stole a large sum of money. Looking back, the listener realised the theft was probably connected to their own shortcomings. They were not keeping close enough track of the business, and they were trying to grow it too fast, driven by insecurities they were compensating for.

The teacher's reaction is warm and specific. "That's actually the example that I had in my head," the speaker says, and it becomes the test case for everything that follows. Notice what the example does. It does not say the employee was innocent, and it does not say the business owner was to blame for the theft. It locates a chain of causes in the owner's own mind, and in the owner's own choices, while leaving the thief's intention in view. That is the kind of honest mapping that makes karma useful rather than punitive.

What happens when karma meets theft, sickness and guilt?

From the employee case the talk widens. The teacher poses theft from the other direction: when someone steals something from you, what is the karma here? Is it yours, the thief's, or a shared web in which both are caught? The question is taken up in the context of the causal interconnection that the teacher sees everywhere, in which one event pulls on many others. The talk then tests the framework against sickness. Is your illness simply the result of your own past karma, or does it also involve the biological functioning of other people and the wider conditions of life? The teacher's question hangs in the room rather than being answered neatly.

Later, the talk turns toward the emotional life of karma. A listener asks whether guilt is an innately negative state, and the teacher treats it as a serious topic rather than a side remark. Guilt is often the emotional signature of the "I caused everything" view. If you believe all suffering is your fault, guilt becomes a constant companion. Yet the talk's larger aim seems to be practical: knowing what is skillful, and knowing which actions lead to suffering, rather than building a ledger of blame. Near the close of the excerpt, the teacher's remarks circle back to how we view a situation, and what kind of view we bring to it.

"There's something about when everybody agrees on everything that I don't really like."

(The speaker, in the BSV Dhamma Talks recording "Interconnection: What does it mean for karma and responsibility?", around 3:49)

Why does this question matter for responsibility?

The talk is useful precisely because it resists two comfortable positions. If everything is interconnected, responsibility dissolves into the crowd. If everything is my karma, responsibility swells into self-blame and a false sense of control. The teacher's framework, as the material suggests, asks for something harder: an honest tracing of causes that includes oneself without erasing everyone else. In the employee story, the owner did not need to conclude that the theft was entirely their fault in order to see what they could change. They needed to see the insecurity and the haste, which were theirs to work on.

This is also why the talk's opening frame, a conference about society and environmental impact, is not a digression. The same logic scales. A world that believes it is merely interconnected can disclaim its part in harm. A world that believes each person's karma is solely their own can ignore structures that shape lives. The teacher's question, individual or shared or both, is a question about where to look when something goes wrong.

It is worth saying plainly what this excerpt does and does not give you. The transcript provided covers the setup and many of the examples, but not every conclusion the teacher reaches across the full hour. Watching the complete talk will show how each case resolves. What the early hour makes clear is the method: state the common view, test it with a real story, and refuse to let a good-sounding idea stand in for thought.

Where to go from here

Watch the full talk, "Interconnection: What does it mean for karma and responsibility?", on the BSV Dhamma Talks channel, paying attention to how each example is tested against the two extremes the teacher names. Then read the passage from the Anguttara Nikaya that the teacher quotes, and sit with the phrase "heir of my karma" as a statement about responsibility rather than fate. For a personal exercise, follow the teacher's own method: think of a recent setback, and write down the causes you can honestly see in your own intentions and choices, and the causes that clearly lie with others. Keep the two lists separate for a while. The aim is not to decide once and for all whether karma is individual or shared, but to notice which answer you reach for first, and why. The Buddhist Society of Victoria's website and its East Malvern centre are good places to find further teachings in this tradition.

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Transcript

[0:28] [snorts]

[0:35] >> Okay. Nice to

[0:37] >> [snorts]

[0:37] >> see some people here. You've braved the

[0:39] You've braved the rain. That's very

[0:40] good. I didn't think anybody would come

[0:42] cuz it was raining so much. So, so well

[0:44] done. Well done for getting out here.

[0:45] And it's good to see the nuns are here.

[0:47] Like

[0:48] you've all listened to me talk a lot.

[0:49] Like wouldn't it be better if they were

[0:51] giving the talk today?

[0:55] Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?

[0:58] So

[0:59] got like

[1:00] strong like strong-arm them a lot. Like

[1:04] and say, "Hey, we really want you to

[1:06] come here and give talks." So

[1:08] Yeah? Yes? Yeah? How How much do you

[1:11] want them to come here and give talks?

[1:14] A lot? Yeah, there you go. See, the the

[1:16] people have spoken and

[1:18] now you must

[1:20] Now you must obey what the people what

[1:21] the people want. Uh

[1:23] >> Does it seem like a setup?

[1:27] >> It's It's

[1:29] >> I don't say [snorts] you don't have time

[1:31] to listen to me

[1:32] talking.

[1:33] But we just like nice to be here. Just

[1:35] see

[1:36] And I don't want to sit on the sofa.

[1:39] But we want you to give the

[1:41] >> [laughter]

[1:43] >> in the future.

[1:45] >> There is no future.

[1:47] There literally is no future.

[1:50] So you just have to do it. Like

[1:53] >> [laughter]

[1:55] >> Tomorrow never

[1:57] >> Tomorrow never comes, but Nove- November

[2:00] will come.

[2:01] >> How many days do you listen to your

[2:04] talk?

[2:07] >> Well, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll give it

[2:10] I'll give a talk as hopefully as the

[2:12] cause for you to give future talks here.

[2:14] Then that's the That's That's the only

[2:15] condition I will continue to open my

[2:18] mouth today.

[2:19] Sound fair?

[2:25] >> [laughter]

[2:26] >> You're good at gardening, so let's just

[2:28] let's

[2:29] Let's do it that Cool. Okay, so yeah, I

[2:31] I won't I won't put them I put them on

[2:33] the spot, but I won't put them on the

[2:34] spot that much. I don't want to I don't

[2:36] want to throw them under the bus like

[2:38] that. So, look, I um

[2:41] as a few of you know, I I went away I

[2:43] went away for about a week. Uh

[2:46] I just got back yesterday morning and um

[2:49] I was in Korea for for you know, just

[2:51] just under 7 days and um I was at I was

[2:54] going around looking at a lot of

[2:55] Buddhist places that are there, but then

[2:56] also I was at a conference that had uh

[2:59] different uh Buddhist scholars, uh

[3:02] contemplative scientists, uh

[3:04] clinical psychologist, mindfulness

[3:07] scientists, all these kinds of different

[3:08] people.

[3:09] >> [snorts]

[3:09] >> And the whole kind of theme of the like

[3:12] the conference that I went to was you

[3:13] know, how can mindfulness and Buddhist

[3:16] thought how can that influence like make

[3:17] society better?

[3:19] How can that uh contribute to you know,

[3:21] environmental change and environmental

[3:23] impact? And you know, this is This is a

[3:26] you know, it's obviously it's a good

[3:27] thing to talk about. It's a good thing

[3:28] to think about.

[3:29] >> [snorts]

[3:29] >> Uh but one thing that kept coming up

[3:31] over and over again is this idea of uh

[3:34] interconnectedness.

[3:36] That we're all interconnected and

[3:37] mindfulness helps us become uh

[3:39] interconnected with other people. Now,

[3:41] [snorts] again, you know, this is a you

[3:43] know, this is a nice idea, but there's

[3:44] like

[3:45] You all know me like there's something

[3:47] about when everybody agrees on

[3:49] everything that I don't really like.

[3:52] So, everyone's like, "Oh, it's all

[3:53] interconnectedness." I'm like, "Well, is

[3:55] Okay." So, it got me it got me thinking

[3:58] a lot about this idea of

[4:00] interconnectedness and how we think

[4:01] about this from

[4:03] you know, just from a from a common

[4:05] sense perspective, but then also from a

[4:06] Buddhist perspective. But then also from

[4:09] the perspective of like maybe how did

[4:11] the Buddha think about something like

[4:12] interconnectedness? So, because you

[4:15] know, everybody knows the famous

[4:16] teaching of the Buddha is that you know,

[4:18] I am the owner of my karma, heir of my

[4:20] karma, born of my karma, related to my

[4:22] karma, about supported by my karma,

[4:24] whatever karma I do for good or for ill,

[4:27] I will be the heir of that. So, we all

[4:29] kind of like know this. You know, it's

[4:31] from the Anguttara Nikaya. And [snorts]

[4:34] what this what this kind of means is

[4:35] that like our personal intentions and

[4:37] our personal actions matter. And with

[4:40] they these things have consequences.

[4:42] But like at the same time, you know, we

[4:44] can also like look just out into our

[4:47] lives and then go actually like our

[4:49] lives are really actually shaped by

[4:51] other people and other people's

[4:52] decisions and other people's actions

[4:54] really kind of have an influence over

[4:56] over our lives.

[4:58] So, if we also take the like the

[5:00] Buddhist idea of rebirth seriously, we

[5:02] have this kind of idea that our lives

[5:04] are conditioned by past karma. So, we

[5:07] have this idea that

[5:09] uh if I wronged, you know, it's it's

[5:11] again it's just a general assumption. If

[5:13] I if I am wronged by somebody now,

[5:15] that's due to my past karma. I you know,

[5:17] maybe I wronged somebody in the past.

[5:20] Likewise, if something good happens to

[5:21] me, well, this is the result of me maybe

[5:23] helping somebody in the past. You know,

[5:25] this can sometimes be um an

[5:27] oversimplification, but some people

[5:28] actually like really do take this this

[5:30] idea kind of seriously.

[5:33] So, kind of the question that I wanted

[5:34] to like think about in the tension that

[5:36] I wanted to like sort of explore today

[5:38] is like how much how much of what

[5:41] actually happens to us is due to our own

[5:44] karma?

[5:45] So,

[5:46] the reason I kind of wanted to talk

[5:48] about this is because I think we can

[5:50] we've we've got the we've got the issue

[5:52] of interconnectedness, which is it's

[5:54] complex.

[5:56] But then also I think there's this other

[5:58] kind of fallacy that we may be fall into

[6:00] as well as like we kind of think we're

[6:03] the instigator of all action as well.

[6:05] That everything that happens in life is

[6:07] kind of because of us and because of our

[6:10] karma.

[6:11] So, we start treating ourselves as like

[6:13] like the center of the universe and that

[6:17] kind of happens because of us. Again,

[6:19] these are the two extremes. These are

[6:21] the two extremes. I'm I'm hopefully I

[6:22] hopefully you fall somewhere somewhere

[6:24] in the middle of that. Hopefully you

[6:25] don't like fall on either end of that.

[6:27] So, like the question I wanted to pose

[6:30] today essentially is is like if we're

[6:32] actually the heirs and owners and

[6:34] supported by our karma,

[6:36] but our lives are also really

[6:39] interconnected and interrelated with

[6:41] others, like how much of what actually

[6:43] happens to us is the result of our karma

[6:46] or is it a result of people's karma?

[6:49] So, it it's actually like a like a a

[6:51] pointed question of like is our karma is

[6:53] it individual?

[6:55] Or is our karma shared?

[6:57] Or is it both? Or is it

[7:00] neither of these two these three

[7:02] options?

[7:03] So,

[7:05] so I I kind of wanted to like think

[7:06] about this in in terms of like like

[7:08] setting up a kind of like what we call

[7:10] an intuition pump is like so who's who's

[7:12] actually had something bad happen to

[7:14] them?

[7:16] Yeah. Who's Yeah.

[7:18] So, something goes wrong for you

[7:20] personally in this kind of way. So, who

[7:23] basically thinks when something goes

[7:25] wrong for you there's a reason for it?

[7:28] Something bad happens there's some sort

[7:30] of reason, yeah? Everything happens for

[7:32] a reason, yeah? Who Who has that kind of

[7:35] intuition around that?

[7:37] Yeah, everything happens for a reason.

[7:39] It's a common thing that you'll see on

[7:41] >> Some talking things happen without

[7:43] reason but because of the bad condition.

[7:46] >> Yeah, maybe yeah, because of the bad

[7:47] conditions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

[7:49] yeah. You know, I I'd like to think that

[7:51] like my talk would be packed out today

[7:53] and there'd be people sitting up the

[7:54] front if it wasn't for the weather, but

[7:56] you know,

[7:57] probably got something else to do with

[7:59] it as well.

[8:01] But so how much of that kind of you

[8:04] know, a lot of times when something bad

[8:05] happens to us, do we kind of take

[8:06] responsibility for it and think, well,

[8:08] this is because of something I did?

[8:11] Something bad happens and it's like,

[8:12] this is because of something I did.

[8:14] Yeah?

[8:15] Yeah?

[8:16] So can you give me like an example of

[8:18] that?

[8:19] Somebody give me Yeah?

[8:21] >> Uh in a previous business I had someone

[8:22] steal a lot of money.

[8:24] >> Right.

[8:24] >> An employee.

[8:25] >> Yep.

[8:28] >> Yeah, I

[8:29] I realized that it was

[8:30] I took

[8:32] the inside that it was probably because

[8:34] I wasn't

[8:35] across the pulse

[8:36] >> Yep.

[8:36] >> business but I was trying to grow it too

[8:38] fast.

[8:38] >> Yep.

[8:39] >> Because of my insecurities that I was

[8:41] trying to compensate for.

[8:42] >> Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, actually

[8:44] that's that's a that's

[8:46] I'm so glad I called on you cuz that's

[8:47] actually the example that I had in my

[8:49] head of like consider when somebody

[8:52] steals something from you. Who's had

[8:53] something stolen from them?

[8:56] Anybody not had anything stolen from

[8:58] them?

[9:00] Really?

[9:01] You never had something Wow, that's

[9:03] that's that's pretty good you've

[9:04] pretty good going through life not

[9:06] having something stolen from you.

[9:08] Yeah, good and really really good karma,

[9:10] you know, let's let's let's jump on that

[9:13] let's jump on that assumption.

[9:15] So

[9:16] so you might say

[9:18] in some kind of way like one extreme

[9:19] that we can take is something that is

[9:21] stolen from you. You might say, well,

[9:23] it's my past karma that I am experience

[9:26] I'm experiencing this now. That's one

[9:28] way to that's basically one way to look

[9:29] at it.

[9:31] >> [sighs]

[9:32] >> So

[9:33] who who would kind of think of that

[9:34] though?

[9:35] Like who would kind of take that on of

[9:36] like, okay, because I've had something

[9:38] stolen from me, it must be because of my

[9:39] karma."

[9:42] Yeah.

[9:43] Yeah.

[9:45] Yeah, to some extent. Yeah.

[9:47] So, I think because there's a there's a

[9:49] bit of an issue with something like that

[9:51] in that actually like if we kind of

[9:53] think of that as like, "Well, it's my

[9:54] karma that I had something stolen from

[9:56] me." Essentially, what that does it it

[9:58] like inadvertently basically says that

[10:01] like you're the center of the universe.

[10:03] And you're now causing somebody to to

[10:05] steal something from you. So, your karma

[10:07] has made somebody else a thief.

[10:10] So, that's you know, that's but that's

[10:12] like a far like that's a far way to go,

[10:15] but it's in some way it it actually like

[10:17] can uh um

[10:18] uh entail that. This kind of thought

[10:20] that just because something was stolen

[10:22] from me and it's now my karma, it's kind

[10:24] of like my fault. I left the keys in the

[10:26] car and somebody stole my car. This is

[10:28] now my fault.

[10:30] Basically, if we take that kind of

[10:32] idealistic centric view of karma, then

[10:35] it's kind of like you're causing others

[10:37] to do good and bad things, which I you

[10:39] know, I don't think I don't think that's

[10:41] actually that reasonable.

[10:43] Cuz we have to think about like what

[10:45] causality is here. Now, when we think

[10:47] about causality, uh we think about it

[10:49] from in like in different ways, but uh

[10:51] for for something to be like causally

[10:53] connected or logically and also and even

[10:56] just like basic logical logically

[10:58] connected, it needs different kind of

[11:00] conditions. It needs what we call a

[11:01] necessary condition. So, basically, what

[11:04] this means is without this thing, the

[11:07] thing would not happen, right? So, like

[11:09] the example here is like a fire can't

[11:12] start without an ignition. So, it it's

[11:14] it's necessary that thing has to be

[11:16] there for it to happen.

[11:18] Then we also have what we call

[11:19] sufficient conditions. And so, then like

[11:21] given this thing happens, then the event

[11:23] will occur. So, the idea here is is like

[11:27] if you have a lit match and if it hits

[11:29] on something like dry kindling or

[11:31] something, this is sufficient for a fire

[11:33] to actually start.

[11:35] This is different from a necessary

[11:36] condition because, you know, a necessary

[11:38] condition you can have a lit match, you

[11:39] can have dry grass or whatever, but

[11:42] that's not sufficient for a fire to

[11:43] start. You can stand there with the

[11:45] match, but it's not it's not neces- it's

[11:49] like it's neces- like it's Sorry, it's

[11:50] not sufficient for the actual fire to

[11:52] start. It's and it might not even be

[11:53] necessary.

[11:54] But then we also have what we call is

[11:56] contributing conditions and that, you

[11:58] know, these are the things that

[11:59] contribute to an event happening. So,

[12:02] say for example with the fire, it's

[12:03] basically like, well, if you have like a

[12:05] lot of dry grass and you have a lot of

[12:07] wind, you know, this will help the fire

[12:09] kind of like spread out all over the

[12:11] place.

[12:12] So, if we think about karma in this kind

[12:15] of way, then then

[12:18] it doesn't always necessarily follow

[12:21] that because some event happens that

[12:24] this is, you know, that we caused it in

[12:25] some kind of way.

[12:27] So, you can't reason backwards from

[12:29] like, well, I was robbed

[12:31] to war- to all the way to I caused this

[12:33] thing to happen. My karma actually

[12:35] caused this thing to happen. This is

[12:37] making what we call like a logical

[12:38] fallacy here.

[12:40] So, just because past karma was a a

[12:43] condition of it, actually doesn't mean

[12:45] that it necessarily caused it in this

[12:47] kind of way.

[12:49] So,

[12:50] can you kind of think of something where

[12:51] like somebody else's decision or action

[12:55] like changed the course of your life?

[13:00] Yeah.

[13:01] What? Yeah, what do you think? Great

[13:03] Great shirt, great hair.

[13:07] >> Um

[13:08] being with someone who has extreme

[13:11] trauma

[13:11] >> Yep.

[13:12] >> and

[13:13] brought upon you to reflect in a

[13:17] profound way based on

[13:19] >> Yep.

[13:19] >> what they

[13:20] brought to the situation.

[13:21] >> Yep. So, being in interrelation with

[13:24] other people and kind of realizing or

[13:26] understanding the experiences of the

[13:29] past actually kind of shapes who you are

[13:31] as well in this kind of way. Yeah?

[13:33] >> I think of it as

[13:36] it's done for us rather than to us.

[13:39] >> Yeah.

[13:39] >> Self-determined.

[13:40] >> Yeah. Yeah, so it's done for us rather

[13:42] than to us. Anybody think of something

[13:43] else?

[13:44] >> I went through a divorce.

[13:46] >> You went through a divorce. You sure

[13:47] that's not your fault?

[13:50] I'm joking.

[13:51] Joking.

[13:53] >> [laughter]

[13:53] >> There's always two What is it? There's

[13:54] always two There's always two to tango.

[13:57] Yeah, it takes two people to get

[13:58] divorced. So, yeah. What are you going

[14:00] to say?

[14:01] >> [snorts]

[14:01] >> I think

[14:01] >> Yeah.

[14:02] >> Um decisions our parents made.

[14:04] >> Yeah.

[14:05] Yeah, it's a big one. Yeah.

[14:06] >> Yeah, when I was just My biggest example

[14:09] of one of the big things was when I was

[14:10] seven, my parents immigrated to another

[14:13] country. So, I grew up

[14:15] >> Yeah.

[14:15] >> in Israel.

[14:16] >> Mhm.

[14:17] >> So, yeah.

[14:18] >> Mhm.

[14:20] >> So, yeah, like so look all these

[14:21] different

[14:22] >> They didn't affect my life.

[14:23] >> Yeah, and like we didn't have a we

[14:24] didn't have like anything to do with

[14:26] that decision at all. All those actions.

[14:28] Yeah, your parents my parents sent me to

[14:30] a particular kind of school. I have a

[14:32] particular particular kind of like

[14:34] education now. So, like this is not

[14:36] really something that I chose myself.

[14:38] Somebody else's action caused me to be

[14:40] like the way that I am in this kind of

[14:41] way.

[14:42] >> [gasps]

[14:43] >> So,

[14:44] just because there's a causal condition

[14:46] there again, it doesn't necessarily mean

[14:48] that you are the instigator of that

[14:50] thing. Again, our parents do these

[14:52] things. We share lives with different

[14:54] people. We get divorced, you know, like

[14:56] all these different kinds of things

[14:57] happen and it doesn't So, just because

[14:59] something causally happens doesn't

[15:01] always necessarily mean that we are the

[15:03] cause of that thing. Does that kind of

[15:06] make sense?

[15:07] So, because there's a problem here cuz

[15:10] if we think if we think that like that

[15:12] everything is causally interconnection

[15:16] interconnected in this kind of way, what

[15:18] do you think that kind of does to us or

[15:20] does to our lives.

[15:24] If everything's in If everything, sorry?

[15:27] >> Makes it narrow.

[15:28] >> Makes it narrow? Yeah, yeah. So, if

[15:29] everything's interconnected, what does

[15:31] that kind of do?

[15:33] >> It disempowers us.

[15:35] >> It can disempower us, yeah. Yeah.

[15:37] Basically, it flattens all

[15:38] responsibility.

[15:40] It basically it flattens all kind of

[15:42] responsibility that we actually have.

[15:44] So,

[15:45] what it does, it disempowers us and

[15:47] dissolves responsibility. And And if we

[15:50] think about like karma from a Buddhist

[15:51] perspective, it's like karmas and the

[15:53] way we're kind of understanding that,

[15:54] it's not really meant to be doing that.

[15:56] It's actually meant to be empowering us

[15:58] in this kind of way and and allowing us

[16:00] to take responsibility for our

[16:02] intentions and our actions.

[16:04] So, but look, so now we kind of get to

[16:07] the heart of this idea of

[16:08] interconnectedness.

[16:10] And uh it's Look, I think it's a like

[16:13] it's a nice idea, and I see the

[16:15] intuition behind it, and I see the um

[16:18] you know, I see the appeal of something

[16:20] like this because look, now like we

[16:21] don't we don't operate in a vacuum.

[16:24] Like, does anybody operate in a vacuum?

[16:27] No. If we did, like I'm just talking to

[16:32] random images here. No, we don't operate

[16:35] in a vacuum. We operate uh in accordance

[16:37] with uh

[16:38] Nothing that we do happens in isolation.

[16:40] There's so many different factors that

[16:42] are involved here, different people,

[16:44] different circumstances, different like

[16:46] environments that are around.

[16:49] >> [sighs and gasps]

[16:49] >> So,

[16:51] if if everyone is kind of a part of

[16:54] that, then what we kind of end up doing

[16:57] is have flattening all responsibility,

[17:00] which is I you know, I I think that's

[17:02] like going too far in this in this way.

[17:06] Um so,

[17:08] just because something is causally

[17:10] responsible for something doesn't

[17:12] actually mean that there's a shared

[17:15] responsibility there. Does that kind of

[17:17] distinction make sense at least?

[17:21] I look like I've lost you.

[17:23] Yeah? Have I lost you?

[17:25] Little bit. Maybe. No, okay, you're

[17:28] still following along. That's good.

[17:29] That's good. So,

[17:32] So, because if we kind of think about

[17:34] things in this terms of an

[17:35] interconnected way and we take on things

[17:39] as, you know, like causality is

[17:41] interconnected in this way,

[17:43] then basically everything, you know,

[17:45] everyone becomes responsible for

[17:47] everything. So, the person that

[17:50] stole the money from your business, it's

[17:52] like, well, it's not just them. It's

[17:54] like it's you. It's

[17:56] this person's like mother, this person's

[17:59] like fourth grade teacher, it's this

[18:02] like the environment that they grew up

[18:04] in, it's their genetic lineage.

[18:06] That basically means that like everybody

[18:09] and everything is responsible for this

[18:11] thing. And that kind of doesn't

[18:14] fit. That doesn't kind of really make

[18:16] sense. So, we don't want to we don't

[18:19] want to make the logical mistake of

[18:22] basically saying that because we are

[18:24] causally connected to things

[18:27] that we share responsibility for

[18:29] everything. Does that it's kind of

[18:32] coming along?

[18:33] So,

[18:34] what interconnectedness actually does,

[18:37] I think it's a good like it's and again

[18:39] it's a good idea. What it does it it

[18:41] explains to us and helps us understand

[18:43] how things are causally dependent on

[18:45] each other. And they might be connected

[18:47] in some kind of way,

[18:49] >> [gasps]

[18:49] >> but by itself it doesn't establish who

[18:53] is responsible for a particular kind of

[18:56] action.

[18:57] So, again, cuz if everybody's if

[18:59] everybody's responsible for everything,

[19:01] then then like we've just we've lost

[19:03] responsibility. We've just everything

[19:06] like responsibility itself just totally

[19:09] loses its meaning,

[19:11] which I don't think any of us actually

[19:12] like want to do.

[19:14] So, what is the So, now we get to this

[19:17] point of like, well, what does the

[19:18] Buddha say about this? And this is

[19:21] because, you know, we look in the if we

[19:23] look in the like the early Buddhist

[19:24] sutras, a lot of it is about karma and

[19:27] personal responsibility and and being

[19:29] responsible for our intentions and

[19:31] actions in this way.

[19:32] >> [snorts]

[19:33] >> So, there's this this there's this kind

[19:34] of there's this nice sutra in the

[19:37] Sutta Nipata, the Sivaka sutra, sorry.

[19:40] And it's like it's one it's it's a rarer

[19:43] one, but it's it's it's actually like a

[19:46] really good instance of where the Buddha

[19:47] talks about this. He's basically asked

[19:50] is like there's I can't remember exactly

[19:53] who it was. I had it written there

[19:54] somewhere, but

[19:56] so basically somebody comes to him and

[19:57] asks him is like, you know, is is like

[19:59] is karma the cause of everything? Is so

[20:01] is your sickness is that the cause of

[20:03] things that are happening in the world?

[20:05] And the Buddha basically rejected this

[20:08] view that that that everything that we

[20:10] experience is due to karma. He brought

[20:13] up things like painful feelings.

[20:16] Painful feelings can arise through

[20:17] various conditions.

[20:19] There's like bodily disorders. Sorry,

[20:21] things going wrong with with with the

[20:23] body, we're getting sick in different

[20:25] way, bile, phlegm, all these kinds of

[20:26] things.

[20:27] >> [snorts]

[20:27] >> He also talked about like environmental

[20:29] factors being a being a cause for these

[20:31] things, but then also yeah, he said like

[20:32] one's own one's own personal karma as

[20:34] well.

[20:36] So,

[20:37] the point like it's a it's a short it's

[20:39] a very short sutra.

[20:42] And you know, unfortunately because it's

[20:43] so short, it doesn't cover everything.

[20:45] So, it's limited in that way.

[20:48] But I think it actually makes it like a

[20:49] really important point. The Buddha

[20:52] actually saying is like it's not like

[20:53] karma is universal in this kind of way

[20:56] or moral karma or personal karma is

[20:58] universal in this way. We might have

[21:00] karma writ large that is universal, but

[21:03] not personal or moral karma that is

[21:05] responsible for for basically everything

[21:07] here.

[21:08] >> [gasps]

[21:08] >> So,

[21:11] logical distinctions kind of [snorts]

[21:13] matter here quite a lot. Um so, just

[21:17] just if we say like karma can condition

[21:19] experience, that doesn't necessarily

[21:20] mean all experience is caused by karma.

[21:25] Just likewise, if you say karma

[21:26] contributed to some sort of outcome,

[21:28] that actually doesn't mean that karma

[21:29] alone was sufficient. Your personal

[21:32] karma alone was sufficient for that

[21:33] action to happen.

[21:35] We can't actually say just because an

[21:37] event occurred, that doesn't entail that

[21:39] we know which past causal karma actually

[21:43] produced that because it's like it's

[21:44] incredibly complex.

[21:47] So, again, like the Sivaka Sutta, it

[21:49] like it's doesn't give like a like a a

[21:51] thorough account, but it makes this

[21:53] really narrow and I like at least I

[21:54] think it like an important distinction

[21:56] here is that

[21:58] we can't explain all experience through

[22:00] personal moral karma. I I don't think we

[22:03] can kind of do that.

[22:05] And again, because it's it's it's a

[22:07] sutra that's kind of in isolation and

[22:09] there's there's a few others there's a

[22:11] few others there, but they don't make

[22:12] the point as as

[22:14] directly in this kind of way.

[22:16] When we look at some of the later

[22:18] Buddhist text,

[22:19] the like in the commentaries, there's

[22:21] there's what's called the five niyamas

[22:23] as well. Now, the five niyamas, these

[22:25] are things that produce karma. These are

[22:29] these are these are causal factors in

[22:31] the world.

[22:32] So, these are you know, these are things

[22:34] called like again, moral personal karma,

[22:37] that's one of them. Uh a second one is

[22:39] like biological processes, the kind of

[22:41] body that we have,

[22:43] the kind of health that we have.

[22:45] Uh the third is is like, you know,

[22:48] environmental seasonal phenomena, but

[22:50] the Buddha sorry, not the Buddha, the

[22:51] commentaries basically say, you know,

[22:53] the weather and things like that that

[22:54] happen. But they basically they just

[22:55] means the environment.

[22:57] Um then there's the mind as well, the

[22:59] citta, and also dharmas as well. And

[23:00] these are all sources of causality. Uh

[23:04] we could kind of say.

[23:05] So,

[23:07] when we look at this, we can kind of see

[23:08] it's like, well, it's not just all

[23:10] personal karma. There's There's other

[23:12] things that are involved in how we

[23:15] operate in the world. So, yeah, we have

[23:17] personal karma. These are our

[23:18] intentions. These are our actions.

[23:21] Um and also these are intentions actions

[23:23] that produce our the consequences that

[23:25] kind of occur for us. But look,

[23:27] what's what's the other big thing that's

[23:29] involved in this?

[23:33] There's a whole lot of you in the room.

[23:35] So, what's the other thing?

[23:38] Yeah?

[23:40] >> I think

[23:41] it's um causes and conditions from

[23:43] nature.

[23:44] >> Yep.

[23:45] >> The

[23:46] personal [snorts] part is the choices

[23:48] >> Yep.

[23:49] Yep.

[23:50] >> actions, but the other part is

[23:52] causes and conditions

[23:53] >> Yeah.

[23:54] Yeah. So, there's so much stuff outside

[23:56] of us as well. Yeah. There's like

[23:58] literally people sitting You're wearing

[23:59] a mask at the moment. And it's like,

[24:01] well, you know, the the reason you might

[24:02] get sick is because of other people.

[24:04] Yeah? That's why I'm kind of staying

[24:06] away from everyone at the moment cuz

[24:08] like I'll make I'll make you all sick.

[24:10] Um so, look, you know, other people's

[24:11] karma as well influences.

[24:14] Like other people's other you know,

[24:16] other people's biological functioning

[24:18] actually like this is something that

[24:19] influences us.

[24:21] But also their intentions and their

[24:22] actions. This is something that

[24:23] influences us as well. So, it's not just

[24:26] all personal karma.

[24:28] There's all those interpersonal

[24:29] processes as well. Genetics, biology,

[24:31] the environment, um illness, like all

[24:34] these different kinds of things.

[24:36] But then what this kind of massive

[24:38] conflagration of all these different

[24:40] causes actually brings about is

[24:43] the unknown.

[24:45] Kind of randomness and what we call luck

[24:48] in some kind of way.

[24:49] So, because of all these like strange

[24:51] causal processes coming together, it

[24:54] kind of produces these things that it's

[24:55] like a seemingly random

[24:58] a seemingly by chance a seemingly just

[25:01] kind of the luck of the karmic drawer in

[25:03] this way.

[25:04] Now, the point here is that these things

[25:06] aren't mutually exclusive. It's not like

[25:08] you just have one and you don't have the

[25:10] others. Like these things are really

[25:12] tied up together.

[25:15] So, we're constantly like bumping into

[25:17] all these other different kinds of karma

[25:19] that are out there in the world.

[25:22] Now, you know, again, so this you know,

[25:24] you gave the example of like moving to

[25:26] Israel when you were a kid. Like it's

[25:27] like somebody else's

[25:29] decisions and actions kind of cause

[25:32] something that just happened in your

[25:34] life. Again, it's not like really a

[25:36] personal thing. It's like all this other

[25:38] thing happened. I'm sure there are

[25:39] environmental things that brought about

[25:41] that and maybe the chance of a new job

[25:43] or something like that or some kind of

[25:45] work. You know, and they could just be

[25:46] like kind of geopolitical things that

[25:49] were going on at that time that would

[25:51] make that a good idea to actually do.

[25:53] So,

[25:55] while we might contribute to the world

[25:58] in which others live, it doesn't mean

[26:00] that we cause everything else in the

[26:03] world in this kind of way. Likewise,

[26:06] everything that other people do, it

[26:08] doesn't always just necessarily cause us

[26:10] to be a particular kind of way. You

[26:12] know, we do have some sort of choice in

[26:13] this kind of matter.

[26:15] So, what this does and like it doesn't

[26:17] really deny personal responsibility in

[26:20] this way. It just recognizes that we're

[26:22] not the personal cause of absolutely

[26:25] everything in the world.

[26:27] Um this is kind of solipsistic. This is

[26:30] kind of This is a little bit too like

[26:32] egocentric. Yeah, you're going to say

[26:33] something?

[26:34] >> Yeah, it's

[26:36] Is it okay if I come in?

[26:37] >> Mhm.

[26:39] >> It's something that I've actually been

[26:41] thinking about that I specifically bring

[26:43] it up because um

[26:45] >> I'll just repeat it. It's okay.

[26:47] >> You won't be

[26:47] >> Yeah, yeah. Yep.

[26:48] >> It's okay.

[26:49] So,

[26:50] um

[26:51] I started last year working with a

[26:54] village in India where people live

[26:57] >> probably under the poverty line.

[26:59] >> Yep.

[26:59] >> And developing relationships with these

[27:01] people.

[27:02] >> Yep.

[27:02] >> And I'm going back there again in

[27:03] January to work with them.

[27:07] And

[27:08] when you start to encounter poverty

[27:10] really closely

[27:11] >> Mhm.

[27:13] >> and start to understand the statistics

[27:15] >> Mhm.

[27:17] >> and also start to read and understand

[27:19] more

[27:20] and you call it that theological causes

[27:23] of poverty in the world.

[27:24] >> Yep.

[27:25] >> [snorts]

[27:26] >> You start to understand how over the

[27:30] past last 500 years

[27:33] basically on this planet

[27:35] certain groups of people have caused

[27:37] other groups of people

[27:39] >> Yep.

[27:39] >> who are the majority on the planet in

[27:41] poverty.

[27:45] >> And so the question of karma is really

[27:47] interesting because [snorts]

[27:49] in a very simplistic way we could say

[27:51] these people's karma that they are poor.

[27:54] >> Yep.

[27:55] >> [snorts]

[27:55] >> And yet there's everything in me that

[27:57] rejects that.

[27:58] >> Yep.

[27:59] >> And says

[28:00] these people it's [snorts] not their

[28:01] karma and sometimes karma can be used to

[28:04] actually disempower these people to

[28:06] accept the consequences.

[28:08] >> Yeah.

[28:09] >> So there is an element of luck. Why was

[28:11] I born in Melbourne with food to eat and

[28:14] these people were [snorts] born in India

[28:16] with no food to eat.

[28:18] >> Yep.

[28:19] >> There's luck.

[28:20] There's logic of what colonialism has

[28:23] done.

[28:24] >> Yep. So what what's the what's the

[28:25] question here, sorry?

[28:27] >> is

[28:29] Well, I guess it's how do we think about

[28:31] this? And I I guess I'm agreeing with

[28:33] you

[28:33] >> Yeah.

[28:34] >> saying

[28:35] yes, there is this element that karma

[28:37] and this connected [snorts] is maybe

[28:40] simplified

[28:41] >> Mhm.

[28:42] >> to exactly flatten the responsibility

[28:45] and is a dangerous place to go.

[28:47] >> Yep.

[28:48] >> I guess that on a global scale that is

[28:51] >> Yeah, yeah.

[28:52] Yep.

[28:54] Yeah, so the reflection is something

[28:56] along the lines of like if we kind of

[28:58] look out into the world, we see kind of

[29:00] injustices and we can look at the like

[29:02] the the multiple causes of those

[29:04] injustices and then we can go hey

[29:06] there's you know this is this is

[29:08] something that's really complex and we

[29:10] can kind of see was if we look back

[29:11] through history certain certain things

[29:13] in history caused a particular kind of

[29:15] things some people to be disempowered

[29:19] and living in poverty, others to be

[29:21] empowered and living in affluence.

[29:24] And so there's this kind of there's this

[29:25] kind of

[29:27] reflection that like well look if we

[29:28] kind of take take karma too seriously in

[29:32] one kind of way we might say these you

[29:34] know this is these people's karma so we

[29:36] actually end up becoming

[29:37] you know effectively blunt towards them

[29:40] or denying you know or or kind of

[29:44] saying that they're the cause of these

[29:45] things or we might say on the other side

[29:47] is like well these people that were

[29:49] colonialist in some kind of way

[29:51] that you know they're to blame on all

[29:53] these kinds of things but but actually

[29:55] having this kind of idea where things

[29:57] are you know

[29:58] there are just like certain causes that

[30:01] that

[30:02] very complex and come together to bring

[30:04] these kinds of things so so how do we

[30:06] kind of now think about this randomness?

[30:09] How do we think about this kind of

[30:12] like

[30:13] this litany of causes that actually like

[30:17] bring about our life at the moment and I

[30:19] think you know this is this is actually

[30:20] where this is actually where I think

[30:22] it's

[30:24] you know this is where we have to just

[30:25] like just take a nuanced view of karma

[30:28] as as opposed to very kind of

[30:31] you know as opposed to a very narrow

[30:33] view of karma. I think we can think

[30:34] about it in terms of like consequences.

[30:37] The consequences of these things like

[30:39] now like so past causes are past causes

[30:42] like what we have now is consequences.

[30:46] Now, when we think So, if we if we say

[30:49] if we say in one aspect, "Okay, well,

[30:52] we don't want to say everybody's

[30:54] responsible for everything." But, we

[30:56] also don't want to say like an

[30:57] individual is is just they're also just

[30:59] totally responsible for everything.

[31:02] So, we don't want to say everybody

[31:03] shares the causes, but I think we can

[31:06] kind of say as well as like in some way

[31:08] we kind of share the consequences of

[31:11] these things that happen. We were all a

[31:12] part of the consequences that happened.

[31:15] So, say for example, one person's

[31:18] cruelty can cause a lot of people

[31:20] suffering.

[31:22] And one person's generosity can help a

[31:24] lot of people as well. One person's

[31:26] decision can kind of change the course

[31:29] of history. Um

[31:31] all these different kinds of things.

[31:34] So, in this sense, like

[31:36] consequences are something that we

[31:38] share, I think. This is I think this is

[31:41] when we're thinking about like

[31:43] interconnecting this as like we're

[31:44] sharing the the the the um the

[31:47] consequences [snorts]

[31:48] together in this kind of way.

[31:51] So, even even though even though our

[31:53] intentions and actions, we you know,

[31:54] we're not sharing those things, but

[31:56] we're sharing the consequences of a lot

[31:57] of people's different intentions and

[31:59] actions.

[32:00] Um so, if interconnection and shared

[32:04] karma in this kind of way basically is

[32:08] basically says that look, the

[32:09] consequences that we experience is now,

[32:11] it's all entangled. I think this is

[32:13] something we can kind of say, "Yeah, you

[32:15] know, there is a kind of

[32:16] interconnectedness there. There is a

[32:18] kind of shared um

[32:20] you know,

[32:21] you

[32:22] shared experiences of the consequences

[32:24] of something.

[32:26] But, if like interconnectedness and

[32:29] shared karma in this way means like, you

[32:31] know, dispersed responsibility, I I

[32:34] think we've kind of gone too far with

[32:36] that thing then. I think that we we made

[32:37] a bit of a mistake there.

[32:39] >> [gasps]

[32:39] >> So,

[32:41] we have to distinguish this shared

[32:44] ownership from

[32:46] responsibility. I think we kind of have

[32:48] to distinguish that.

[32:50] So, just to kind of kind of wrap this up

[32:51] now is that well, look, it's like if we

[32:53] think about if we think about like this

[32:56] this this main teaching of karma karma

[32:58] sakani karma tayo to karma yoni karma

[33:00] bandu karma bati's I don't know young

[33:01] karma kamisami karayanam papa kanwa dasa

[33:05] tayo body sammi.

[33:06] It's you I'm the owner of my karma heir

[33:08] of my karma born of my karma related to

[33:10] my karma by by supported by my karma

[33:12] whatever karma I do for good or for ill

[33:14] then that and like then then I'm the

[33:16] heir of that.

[33:17] This is what this does I think

[33:20] hopefully hopefully what this does is

[33:22] kind of

[33:24] call a kind of personal responsibility

[33:26] on us.

[33:27] What this does is kind of allows us to

[33:29] kind of stand up and go yes, like the

[33:31] things that I do matter and the actions

[33:33] that I do it matter and I am kind of

[33:35] responsible for for those those things.

[33:39] What I think this does is brings about

[33:40] and supports a kind of personal

[33:42] responsibility.

[33:43] And what I hopefully think it does as

[33:45] well as brings about a sense of what we

[33:46] call hiri ottappa and this is like moral

[33:48] conscience and and regard for

[33:51] consequences.

[33:52] >> [gasps]

[33:53] >> I think this is like very good to do

[33:55] that but in the same time what it what

[33:58] this teaching of karma doesn't do it

[34:01] doesn't kind of flatten all

[34:02] responsibility out and doesn't actually

[34:04] make us experts on karma and that

[34:07] everything that happens to everyone is

[34:08] just because of their karma and we can

[34:10] kind of go well, yeah, you know, you're

[34:12] in India and you're suffering you're to

[34:14] blame for that suffering. It doesn't I

[34:16] don't think it does that. We don't want

[34:18] it to do we don't want it to do that.

[34:22] So, we have to kind of know that

[34:23] experience arises through multiple

[34:26] conditions. It can be personal. It can

[34:28] be others. It can be like just purely

[34:32] you

[34:33] you purely things like things like third

[34:36] variables, the weather, all these

[34:38] different kinds of things.

[34:40] So, we kind of have to be cautious about

[34:42] blaming others for things that happen.

[34:44] But likewise, we can't really also see

[34:46] ourselves as the sole proprietor of

[34:48] everything that happens in experiences

[34:50] well.

[34:52] So, like the point here is that like not

[34:54] that karma is irrelevant or in any kind

[34:56] of way, but it's just personal karma is

[34:58] just limited of what it can actually

[35:00] explain in our lives.

[35:03] And so, if we are the heirs and the

[35:05] owners and all these kinds of things of

[35:06] our karma, like we can be that, but

[35:08] we're not like the authors of the whole

[35:11] world.

[35:13] We're not We're not the kind of sole

[35:16] gravitational center of of absolutely

[35:18] everything in the world.

[35:20] >> [sighs and gasps]

[35:21] >> We live within like other people's

[35:23] intentions, actions,

[35:26] random causality, luck, all these

[35:28] different kinds of things. We like we're

[35:30] we're a part of that, and we're bumping

[35:32] against it all the time.

[35:35] So,

[35:36] so like the point here is is not to take

[35:39] responsibility not to take

[35:41] responsibility for everyone and

[35:43] everything, but to take responsibility

[35:44] for what's ours and what we can actually

[35:46] what we do have some sort of autonomy

[35:48] over.

[35:49] >> [sighs and gasps]

[35:50] >> We can't We The last thing we want to do

[35:52] is imagine that everybody

[35:54] is responsible for everything and that

[35:57] everybody is to blame for everything as

[35:59] well. I think that's kind of going too

[36:00] far.

[36:01] So, yeah, with that like let's kind of

[36:03] let's see where this where this lands,

[36:06] where this kind of

[36:08] what we think about this kind of stuff.

[36:09] So, yeah.

[36:10] Yep. Dr. Joe.

[36:12] Dr. Joe has got his hand up. Dr. Joe,

[36:14] can I ask a question first?

[36:16] >> Very well.

[36:17] >> Can I Can I go first?

[36:20] Can I go ahead of you?

[36:21] >> Yeah.

[36:22] >> Yeah.

[36:23] >> Yep.

[36:23] >> I don't

[36:24] >> [snorts]

[36:24] >> know.

[36:25] There's a part of that where you talked

[36:27] about you cuz you came out of from

[36:28] responsibility.

[36:29] >> Yep. And I understand you're coming at

[36:30] it from responsibility.

[36:32] But what I find is that

[36:35] um

[36:36] when something

[36:37] completely out of your control happens

[36:39] in life.

[36:41] The approach of like you've taken like

[36:44] this

[36:45] flattening the responsibility. But when

[36:47] when you come at it like

[36:49] it's just the way it is.

[36:52] There's a way of it flattens this anger

[36:55] and ill-will and all of that unwholesome

[36:58] states of mind that come.

[37:00] So take [snorts]

[37:01] I understand the responsibility one.

[37:04] And but the other end of that is

[37:06] actually to flatten the the unwholesome

[37:09] states.

[37:10] >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[37:12] Yeah, look and look I I'm on record a

[37:15] lot of saying that is actually like we

[37:18] shouldn't you know when something bad

[37:20] happens is like we shouldn't go hey I am

[37:22] the locus of responsibility for that.

[37:24] Therefore, I should feel I should always

[37:27] feel bad about this thing.

[37:29] And that we can use this idea of

[37:32] like interconnectedness and like

[37:35] dispersed responsibility in this way to

[37:37] like to to to develop like wholesome you

[37:40] know wholesome states wholesome actions

[37:43] wholesome intentions.

[37:45] So I think you know that like it is

[37:47] useful. I'm not saying like I said I'm

[37:49] not saying it's not useful in this kind

[37:51] of way. But I I'd also kind of

[37:54] uh

[37:55] I think we have to use this reflection

[37:58] skillfully.

[37:59] So as opposed to just taking it as a

[38:02] like as an as a should or a not.

[38:04] Like we have to use this thing

[38:06] skillfully.

[38:07] Like you know like the like the thing

[38:09] with responsibility is like we have to

[38:11] use something like responsibility

[38:12] skillfully you know to know what's mine

[38:15] I'm responsible for and know what's

[38:17] what's out of my control. Something like

[38:19] guilt you know we have have use guilt

[38:21] responsibly as well. Now, we might think

[38:24] that guilt is a innately negative

[38:26] attitude that we sorry emotion that we

[38:28] shouldn't have it. Yeah, guilt is

[38:29] actually useful sometimes.

[38:32] >> [gasps]

[38:32] >> So, we have to use this thing

[38:33] skillfully. So, I think these

[38:35] reflections of interconnectedness like

[38:38] we do have to use it skillfully in this

[38:41] way and I don't think there's anything

[38:42] wrong with that at all.

[38:44] I just I just am cautious about

[38:47] about some people kind of using it as a

[38:50] like as a catch all for everything in

[38:53] this kind of way.

[38:54] So,

[38:55] so something can be personally

[38:57] beneficial and publicly not so

[39:01] not so beneficial. Something can be

[39:02] publicly beneficial but not personally

[39:04] beneficial in this way.

[39:06] So, I just think we have to be like

[39:08] careful and skillful in how we actually

[39:10] use it as opposed to going the concept

[39:12] itself is wrong. Does that make sense?

[39:14] >> Yeah. I mean I was just coming at it

[39:16] from the first thing that happens is the

[39:17] unskillful states of mind arise.

[39:19] >> Yeah.

[39:20] >> And to me, [snorts] that's the first

[39:21] thing to try and dissipate.

[39:23] >> Yep.

[39:23] >> So,

[39:24] >> Yeah.

[39:24] >> seeing it as this this is this there's

[39:27] like a whole bunch of causes that came

[39:29] together that I have absolutely no

[39:31] control over.

[39:32] >> Yep.

[39:32] >> That allows it to sort of dissipate. And

[39:34] then we can take you know take take

[39:36] responsibility for for aspects of it.

[39:41] >> so but again you you mentioned this

[39:43] thing of like skillful states as well.

[39:45] But also like cuz there's also I think

[39:47] there's a wrinkle here as well in that

[39:48] like actually like if something goes

[39:50] wrong and you feel guilty about it. It's

[39:52] like man, maybe I maybe I did it. Like

[39:55] like

[39:56] I don't know about anybody else but my

[39:58] first reaction to everything is like

[40:01] am I the

[40:03] I can't say the swear word here but you

[40:04] know the swear word that I'm probably

[40:06] thinking am I the

[40:08] here.

[40:10] Like was it me?

[40:12] So, sometimes that

[40:14] like that unskillful state actually can

[40:15] be skillful as well. But yeah, you're

[40:17] right. if it's like

[40:19] a negative state of like, "Well,

[40:21] I'm not that.

[40:23] They are." Like, that's you know, that's

[40:25] unskillful.

[40:26] Can Can anyone read my lips?

[40:29] >> [laughter]

[40:30] >> You can probably read my lips. So, but

[40:32] yeah, so I like I agree in this kind of

[40:34] way, but also I think we also have to

[40:35] sometimes in some way go,

[40:38] "Yeah, there's like sometimes unskillful

[40:39] things are

[40:40] helpful in some way." So, but yeah,

[40:42] basically agree with you. Yeah.

[40:44] >> People will be reading your lips on

[40:45] YouTube.

[40:46] >> Yeah, hopefully the mic is big enough.

[40:49] >> It wasn't a bad It wasn't a really bad

[40:52] swear word. It's a

[40:55] Even the YouTube AI will still figure it

[40:57] out.

[40:58] >> Yeah.

[41:01] Let's Let's take it out of context and

[41:03] like let's just make a like a short clip

[41:05] of me swearing. Yeah.

[41:07] >> [laughter]

[41:07] >> Yeah.

[41:08] >> [snorts]

[41:08] >> I don't know how you should do the

[41:09] interesting topic that you always bring.

[41:12] Um yes, I think I will

[41:15] rephrase this topic. You say inter

[41:18] depend inter connect.

[41:20] >> Yeah.

[41:21] >> I go further. Interconnected and

[41:23] interdependent.

[41:24] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[41:25] >> So, that's that's a topic.

[41:27] >> Yeah.

[41:27] >> So, you went for the conference that's

[41:30] about the topic very [snorts]

[41:31] interesting. So, we all try to explain

[41:34] through Buddha's teachings.

[41:36] When Buddha got enlightened,

[41:38] we all know that he paid respect to tree

[41:40] he was under.

[41:41] >> Yeah.

[41:41] >> The Bodhi tree.

[41:42] >> Mhm.

[41:43] >> He was [snorts] making a at that time I

[41:45] made a silent statement

[41:47] >> Mhm.

[41:47] >> to say that we are connected to

[41:49] environment.

[41:50] >> Yeah.

[41:50] Okay.

[41:51] >> Later we found that oxygen comes from

[41:53] trees.

[41:53] >> Yeah.

[41:54] >> He didn't give a lecture on biology at

[41:55] the time.

[41:56] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[41:57] >> Okay. So, the the reason why he did that

[41:59] is to just to give a silent statement

[42:01] say, "We are part of environment. We are

[42:03] all interconnected and interdependent."

[42:06] >> Yeah, it's a support. Yeah.

[42:07] >> That's why the Bodhi tree is otherwise

[42:09] not everything else.

[42:10] >> Mhm.

[42:11] >> Uh

[42:12] then uh

[42:13] karma is uh

[42:15] >> as Buddhist teachings, one of the four,

[42:17] as you said,

[42:18] >> Yeah.

[42:18] >> conditions that, uh,

[42:20] we see the phenomena, process phenomena

[42:22] you see.

[42:23] >> Mhm.

[42:24] >> So, Buddha's statement is every process

[42:26] and phenomena we see, there's a cause.

[42:30] >> Yeah.

[42:30] >> That's how it starts.

[42:31] >> Yep.

[42:31] >> Every process and phenomena we see, we

[42:33] experience, has a cause.

[42:35] >> Mhm.

[42:36] >> One cause is karma.

[42:37] >> Yep.

[42:38] >> What does karma is? Karma is, if through

[42:41] ignorance, we as CCS as separate

[42:43] individual,

[42:44] >> Mhm.

[42:45] >> uh, we in the cycle of birth and

[42:46] rebirth, the things that we create

[42:48] through intention by action, speech, and

[42:51] thought.

[42:52] >> Yeah.

[42:52] >> So, you and also the karma is, uh, as a

[42:56] indi- separate individual,

[42:58] you suffer,

[43:00] suffer, experience suffering

[43:02] individually, personally. Through the

[43:04] dependent origination, you can see that.

[43:06] >> Mhm.

[43:07] >> Dependent origination,

[43:08] pratītyasamutpāda, you can see that. So,

[43:11] what the ex- the responsibility of this

[43:14] personal individual is to how to deal

[43:16] with this, uh,

[43:18] impact of the all the causes,

[43:21] process phenomena. That is what we have

[43:24] to develop. That's a development of to

[43:26] practice what we need.

[43:28] To how to cope with the suffering caused

[43:30] by the all the factors, either due to

[43:33] other factors [snorts] as and plus the

[43:35] things that you have done before.

[43:37] >> Yeah.

[43:37] >> And secondly, through mindfulness, which

[43:40] you will do for the uh, for the uh, this

[43:42] uh, uh,

[43:43] the seminar,

[43:44] uh, that is the time that, uh, you do

[43:46] not create further conditions to be in

[43:48] the cycle.

[43:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[43:50] >> So, he's a individual

[43:51] >> Yep.

[43:52] >> who's suffering due to karma is one of

[43:55] the causes, he experiences suffering,

[43:58] and he will not create further suffering

[44:00] by not remaining in the cycle of birth

[44:03] and rebirth.

[44:04] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[44:05] >> That is the story, it's we are

[44:06] interconnected, interdependent. Physical

[44:09] things we can see how we are

[44:10] interdependent. I mean, we have to

[44:12] depend on people to make our glasses,

[44:14] our clothes, our cars, everything.

[44:17] But the the vijnana

[44:18] >> [clears throat]

[44:18] >> is the mindful mind

[44:21] is we can't see. But if you look at the

[44:24] dependent origination, it is the

[44:26] consciousness that lead to form and

[44:28] body, you know.

[44:29] That's the process we are going through.

[44:30] So that's the process we are going

[44:32] through. The connection between

[44:34] interconnected between the body and the

[44:36] consciousness. Nama rupa, vijnana, all

[44:38] that. So we can explain this to Buddhist

[44:40] teaching very clearly how

[44:42] interdependent, how interconnected, and

[44:44] not to suffer, and not to

[44:46] cause further suffering.

[44:47] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a good it's a good

[44:49] point. Um it's a good point of like this

[44:51] thing of like

[44:53] well, it's not necessarily the case that

[44:54] we cause everything, but it's how we

[44:55] react to that as well. And as I how do

[44:58] we how we react to that? Is that giving

[45:00] rise to more suffering, or is that

[45:02] giving rise to less suffering?

[45:04] And so that is you know, that's the you

[45:06] know, that's the the kind of key here, I

[45:08] think, is that well, we can kind of see

[45:10] that there's some things that are caused

[45:12] by {quote} me.

[45:14] There's some things that are caused by

[45:15] things that are outside of my control,

[45:17] others, the environment, all these kinds

[45:19] of things.

[45:20] The important practical point here is

[45:22] how we react to that. How we react, how

[45:25] do we how do we like minimize the

[45:27] suffering that's there, and minimize the

[45:29] suffering there for

[45:31] you know, {quote} me, the individual,

[45:33] the suffering for others as well. So I

[45:34] think that's you know, from a very

[45:36] practical perspective, and it's kind of

[45:38] what was Srujit was saying is like in

[45:39] this way something like this

[45:42] a reflection about interconnection or

[45:45] interdependence in this way can kind of

[45:47] help us respond

[45:49] like usefully usefully in this way. So

[45:51] that you know, that's the really the

[45:52] kind of the like the you know, the

[45:54] golden the golden ticket here of like

[45:56] what we actually need to do. Again, I

[45:58] can kind of go through necessary and

[45:59] sufficient conditions and all these

[46:01] kinds of things, but it like it in the

[46:03] end it doesn't really

[46:03] >> [laughter]

[46:04] >> it doesn't really matter. You have to

[46:05] deal with it. So like I can tell you not

[46:08] to blame

[46:10] somebody that has a spray tan and has a

[46:12] like big hair for all the problems of

[46:14] the world, but you're still going to

[46:15] watch the news and get like infuriated

[46:18] at this at this person. So

[46:20] So it's one thing again, it's one thing

[46:22] for me to go through all the all this

[46:23] kind of stuff. It's another thing for us

[46:25] to actually like practice with it as

[46:26] well. So yeah. So a question online?

[46:29] >> [clears throat]

[46:30] >> Thank you. Thank you, John.

[46:32] As always thought-provoking. There is a

[46:35] question that is related to a comment.

[46:37] So I'll I'll share the comment first.

[46:39] The comment is my understanding has been

[46:41] that the non-intuitive paradox of karma

[46:45] is not only

[46:47] not being attached to things.

[46:50] Do you actually

[46:51] then take responsibility and then better

[46:54] things happen in life? So

[46:56] let me repeat that. It is the not being

[46:58] attached to things that then you

[47:00] actually get better things happen in

[47:03] life.

[47:04] And then the question that's by another

[47:06] person who's been in the conversation.

[47:09] So then how do we gain insight into

[47:10] karma without it being based on inherent

[47:13] self?

[47:14] Because then we can get caught up with

[47:15] the ego if you see the karma as being

[47:18] mine. So these are related.

[47:20] >> Yeah.

[47:20] >> Yeah.

[47:21] >> Cool. Yeah, really good question. Um

[47:24] So yeah, it's

[47:26] uh

[47:27] cuz I think that's a little bit of the

[47:30] the issue that I first

[47:33] that I first talked about is a lot of

[47:35] the times we have this like version of

[47:37] like it's all mine.

[47:38] Like it's all mine. There's this kind of

[47:40] self that is the owner of everything.

[47:43] And so sometimes we get too wrapped up

[47:45] in that and thinking that it's all mine

[47:47] and thinking that it's all my karma.

[47:49] >> [sighs]

[47:49] >> And obviously but then if we can go to

[47:51] the other extreme as well as like well

[47:53] like a Buddhism teaches that everything

[47:55] has anatta, everything's not self, so

[47:57] none of it's mine. So, therefore, you

[48:00] know, I'm not kind of responsible for

[48:02] anything in this kind of way.

[48:04] So, I don't think we want to take either

[48:05] of these two extremes here. Again, you

[48:07] know, we want to be we want to be

[48:08] looking at things, you know,

[48:10] pragmatically. We want to be looking at

[48:11] things in a balanced way. Um so so say

[48:14] for example, we can we can take

[48:16] something like um

[48:19] uh

[48:19] we can take something like

[48:20] non-attachment that you said. It's like

[48:22] if we if we're just non-attached to

[48:24] thing, does that actually make like

[48:25] things in the world happen in a better

[48:27] way? Well, in one sense maybe yes, and

[48:28] in other sense maybe no as well.

[48:31] >> [sighs and gasps]

[48:31] >> Uh just because I'm not attached to

[48:33] thing, it doesn't mean like bad things

[48:34] won't happen. Bad things might still

[48:36] happen. Just because I'm not attached to

[48:37] thing, it doesn't mean good things won't

[48:39] happen. You know, this is this basically

[48:41] how

[48:42] things work.

[48:44] So, but non-attachment again is is very

[48:46] useful for again our personal response

[48:48] to these to these things. Likewise, the

[48:51] like the idea that there is kind of no

[48:53] self there, it can be helpful in this

[48:56] way. Can be skillful. It's like say you

[48:57] know, bad you know, bad things happen.

[48:59] It's like well,

[49:00] >> [gasps]

[49:00] >> look, you know, there's uh you know,

[49:03] what caused this is like it's just a

[49:04] whole causal causal process. There isn't

[49:08] really a me that's at the center there

[49:09] causing all these things. So, this can

[49:12] be very useful in that way.

[49:14] But likewise, we don't want to like

[49:17] jump on the other end of that and go,

[49:18] "Well, there is no me. It's all just

[49:21] random causes and conditions, and I

[49:23] don't have to care about anything

[49:25] because it's just this cold impersonal

[49:27] universe, and we're floating on a rock

[49:29] that's 4 billion years old, and you

[49:31] know, in in another 5 billion years it's

[49:33] all going to like the sun's going to

[49:34] implode, and we're going to there's

[49:36] going to be nothing anymore, and all

[49:38] these Sorry, I'm going down an

[49:39] existentialist rabbit hole. Um yeah, we

[49:42] don't want to do that. You know, we

[49:43] don't want to do that either. So, we

[49:44] don't want to again

[49:46] I think the like the take-home message

[49:47] here is like let's use the teachings

[49:50] skillfully.

[49:51] Like use them in the right context at

[49:54] the right time to develop skillful

[49:55] states.

[49:56] Let's not use them to like make excuses

[49:59] for things. Let's not use them to like

[50:02] cop out of anything. Let's not use them

[50:04] as a way to like uh you know, again as

[50:07] Dr. Jay was saying, to produce more

[50:08] suffering. We don't want to be doing

[50:09] that.

[50:10] We just want to be using these things

[50:11] skillfully.

[50:14] So, there's a question, but like I'm

[50:15] going to ask a question now. Like,

[50:18] it's not fair that you all get to ask me

[50:19] questions. I get to ask I I should get

[50:21] to ask questions as well. Look, I want

[50:23] to ask some nuns a question.

[50:26] I want to ask some nuns a question. What

[50:27] What do you How do you see

[50:29] interconnectedness in this way? Here's

[50:31] the microphone.

[50:36] How do How do you understand

[50:37] interconnectedness? And And do you think

[50:39] it's something that's useful?

[50:48] Yeah, in the context of karma, yeah.

[50:49] Yep.

[50:58] You want them to You want them to speak,

[50:59] don't you?

[51:00] Yeah.

[51:06] You can just think about it now. You

[51:08] don't have to think about Like

[51:10] I I only started thinking about this

[51:11] like a couple of hours ago, so.

[51:26] Let me ask another question then. Do you

[51:28] find thinking about interconnectedness

[51:31] useful in your own life then?

[51:38] >> Yeah, in a certain

[51:40] uh to a certain extent, very much so,

[51:42] because when um we see that everybody's

[51:44] interconnected, then we start thinking

[51:47] of other people also and not just

[51:48] ourselves, not looking at just things

[51:51] from our own perspective because when we

[51:54] think about just ourselves, looking at

[51:56] ourselves, we tend to have a very narrow

[51:58] view and we are just looking at the

[52:02] problems we have and things like that.

[52:04] So I I think for me personally I I had a

[52:07] point in my life when I was going

[52:10] through some difficulties and I kept

[52:12] looking

[52:13] at just those difficulties and

[52:17] it was actually Ajahn Brahm's story

[52:20] about the two bad bricks that kind of

[52:22] broadened the perspective for me and I

[52:24] saw that, you know, I was looking at my

[52:26] problems in terms of two bad bricks and

[52:28] there's all these 998

[52:31] good bricks that,

[52:33] you know, are part of my life and it's

[52:36] it's just bigger than just myself. So it

[52:39] brings into mind that not everything is

[52:43] just about me and going out, doing

[52:45] things, being

[52:47] connected to other people, looking at

[52:49] the broader picture, that really

[52:52] brought a different perspective to my

[52:54] life, opened up things and gave me a

[52:55] different view. And seeing

[52:59] things differently,

[53:00] the way others live and everything

[53:03] can really influence your my my own life

[53:07] and I think

[53:09] our own lives in general. So I think

[53:11] interconnectedness

[53:12] makes us think about things in a bigger

[53:14] perspective and not have such a narrow

[53:18] view. Yeah.

[53:19] >> Yeah. So and yeah, this is So the talk

[53:22] that I gave, again, it's not to take

[53:23] this idea of interconnectedness and go,

[53:25] "Hey, it's it's it's useless." You know,

[53:27] obviously it is useful. You know, as I

[53:29] as I was basically saying, we can

[53:31] actually see, yeah, things are bigger

[53:33] than me and I'm just not the whole cause

[53:35] of So I think it is something that's

[53:37] incredibly like useful as as well. So

[53:39] yeah, it's not like it's not like you

[53:41] should all like leave here and go and

[53:43] just say that

[53:44] into connectedness is

[53:47] >> I think I don't know what you say is

[53:48] very true. It depends on the individual

[53:51] because we have different tendencies.

[53:53] Some of us tend to blame ourselves a lot

[53:56] for everything. So I think in that case

[53:58] it's helpful to look at the bigger

[54:00] picture and some of us tend to like

[54:02] blame everything else. Every

[54:05] everything else and not look at

[54:07] ourselves. So in that case if you have

[54:08] that kind of personality maybe it will

[54:10] help to reflect on your own actions as

[54:13] well.

[54:13] as Ajahn was saying it depends on the

[54:16] individual. It depends on the condition

[54:19] and we should use those reflections to

[54:22] suit our self personality and the

[54:24] condition the situation. Yeah.

[54:27] >> Yeah. Yeah, I won't take credit for that

[54:28] cuz you said that. So So that but that's

[54:31] good. No, it's a good thing like I don't

[54:33] don't don't don't put that on me like

[54:34] that's your wisdom. That's not my that's

[54:36] not my but yeah again we should kind of

[54:38] think like what kind of personality

[54:40] characteristic do we have? So that's a

[54:41] really good that's a really good point

[54:43] and how can we skillfully use that?

[54:45] Again, you know, my my default is I'm

[54:47] the

[54:48] in this situation like so you know, for

[54:51] me like having that

[54:53] thinking of like interconnectedness in

[54:55] this way

[54:56] it can be a good thing.

[54:58] If I didn't have that I'm like hey,

[55:00] you're the

[55:01] then basically like thinking you know,

[55:04] thinking about interconnectedness in

[55:06] this way is probably not not a useful

[55:08] thing. So again, it's a like it's a

[55:09] really good point. It's up to the

[55:12] like the personal characteristic of the

[55:13] individual that really like will shape

[55:15] whether something like this is useful or

[55:17] not. So yeah, cool.

[55:19] Questions? Yeah. Questions?

[55:21] >> Ajahn, there's one in the room but I'll

[55:22] quickly mention you have

[55:24] some notes of appreciation I think for

[55:26] the discussion here

[55:28] from the online audience. So

[55:31] there there is a particular one I think.

[55:34] Thank you for the question and also for

[55:37] discussing the complex topic. Many many

[55:40] nuances to consider. So there's a

[55:42] question from the lady over here.

[55:44] >> Thank you Ajahn for your teachings. My

[55:45] question was around so we have our past

[55:49] karma.

[55:49] >> Yep.

[55:50] >> And then there's the real-time karma

[55:52] that we're creating.

[55:54] >> Yep.

[55:54] >> Um good and bad.

[55:56] >> Yeah.

[55:56] >> And so I wondered if you could speak

[55:58] [snorts] in terms of um the Buddha's

[56:00] teachings

[56:01] >> Yep.

[56:01] >> around how that real-time karma um can

[56:06] modulate the past karma.

[56:07] >> Yeah.

[56:09] Yeah, so this is this is actually where

[56:11] uh like I think developing you know the

[56:14] the right kind of qualities is is really

[56:16] really important. So um and a big one is

[56:19] something like sati sampajañña. So

[56:21] mindfulness and clear comprehension

[56:23] about what's what's actually occurring

[56:25] occurring.

[56:27] So sati of like knowing what is

[56:29] happening in the present, sampajañña of

[56:32] like clearly knowing it and having kind

[56:34] of insight into it. of um

[56:36] uh knowing what is skillful and knowing

[56:38] what is not skillful, knowing how that

[56:40] we should reflect on these things seeing

[56:42] it as something like it's impermanent,

[56:44] it's not self.

[56:45] So this this idea of like real-time like

[56:50] how do we react in this in this way?

[56:52] This is actually where developing a lot

[56:54] of the qualities and especially this

[56:56] quality of sati sampajañña is incredibly

[56:58] important.

[56:59] Because yeah, look a lot of the times

[57:01] most of us just respond to the world. Uh

[57:05] like I do a lot. Um

[57:07] uh a lot of the times we're kind of just

[57:09] acting on habit. We're just acting on

[57:13] you know the personality construct that

[57:15] we have.

[57:16] >> [gasps]

[57:16] >> But something like sati sampajañña

[57:17] allows us to kind of pause and slow down

[57:21] a little bit but then also see the

[57:23] situation clearly for what it is.

[57:26] So that idea of like how do we react and

[57:31] respond to the real-time karma? I think

[57:33] you know, this is something that we have

[57:34] to if we develop the right kinds of

[57:36] Dharma qualities, we we will have a

[57:39] little bit more insight into how we

[57:40] should or what is appropriate to act in

[57:43] any one particular situation.

[57:46] If we have that Sampajañña, we know like

[57:48] as as Dr. Jay was saying is like some of

[57:50] these things lead to suffering. Some of

[57:52] these things lead to the alleviation of

[57:54] suffering. So, if we have that kind of

[57:55] insight to know is like well, that will

[57:57] start to like guide us and start to

[58:01] nudge our karma a particular kind of

[58:03] way. So, so yeah, it's it's it's

[58:08] a lot of times we're kind of we're

[58:09] beholden to

[58:11] randomness in this way. But, if we

[58:14] develop some of these Dharma qualities,

[58:15] then this is actually the thing that

[58:17] allows us to

[58:18] shape karma intentionally

[58:22] as opposed to just being

[58:24] a recipient of it. Does that make sense?

[58:32] >> Uh

[58:33] so so we do have an online question.

[58:35] It's specifically for the nuns.

[58:37] >> Yes. Do that. Do that. Do that. Do that

[58:40] one.

[58:40] >> Uh

[58:41] it's from a it's from someone called

[58:43] Betty. She says, "For the nuns, in terms

[58:45] of societal and monastic structures

[58:48] and their influence on our personal

[58:50] persona and interactions, how do you do

[58:53] you see the interconnectedness and

[58:55] responsibilities as a nun? So, from the

[58:58] point of view of a nun,

[59:00] uh let me repeat. Um

[59:02] How do the social and monastic

[59:05] structures and

[59:06] their influences on our personal

[59:08] interactions, um how how does um

[59:11] interconnectedness and shapes their

[59:13] responsibility as a nun?

[59:19] >> I think it's a two-way relationship,

[59:22] right? Because I think that's how the

[59:24] Buddha set it up. Um

[59:27] The lay people support us and we in in

[59:29] return we do we share the Dhamma the

[59:32] experience of what we have learned. So

[59:34] in that way there is that

[59:35] interconnectedness. Yeah.

[59:38] Short answer.

[59:40] >> But so so what's what's the perspective

[59:42] of a nun on how you can potentially

[59:46] positively influence

[59:48] aspects of society as well then? From

[59:51] let's say from an like an individual

[59:52] level but then there's also like a

[59:54] communal level but then there's also

[59:55] like a social level. How do you think

[59:57] you how do you see your role in

[59:59] something like that and how do you

[1:00:00] influence it in some kind of way?

[1:00:03] >> But as I said the base basic thing is

[1:00:05] how the Buddha set it up. So um,

[1:00:08] we get the support and in return we also

[1:00:11] give the Dhamma teaching so that's

[1:00:12] through that way that's how we

[1:00:14] contribute back and influence it. Uh, in

[1:00:17] um,

[1:00:19] how we influence through our through

[1:00:21] teachings on what we can contribute.

[1:00:24] Yeah, basically that I think.

[1:00:28] >> And also as a as a nun for a female

[1:00:31] community is a quite benefit because um,

[1:00:34] there's a lot of things a female cannot

[1:00:37] um, talk to the monks.

[1:00:39] So the existence of the nuns we can help

[1:00:42] in that way because easy for the female

[1:00:45] to share how they feel because it really

[1:00:48] connect to the nuns because we are the

[1:00:50] same sex. So that's how we we can

[1:00:53] respond to them how we can assist them

[1:00:56] in the way of um, female um, thinking or

[1:00:59] emotional. So for more benefit for the

[1:01:03] female community

[1:01:05] uh, where we

[1:01:06] interact with the nuns.

[1:01:08] >> Yeah. No cuz yeah like you I think

[1:01:10] you're totally right there cuz like

[1:01:11] there's just things that I I I don't

[1:01:13] have a perspective on I and I don't

[1:01:15] understand.

[1:01:16] Um,

[1:01:17] and people ask me about it and I'm like

[1:01:18] I don't really know anything about

[1:01:20] >> [laughter]

[1:01:21] >> this. So I'm just kind of making things

[1:01:23] up as I go along. So, I think, you know,

[1:01:26] having that perspective is incredibly

[1:01:28] useful cuz like actually what like like

[1:01:31] here's uh

[1:01:32] put it all on the table. I'm kind of

[1:01:33] like half a psychopath kind of things

[1:01:35] like when people talk to me about their

[1:01:36] emotions, I'm like

[1:01:38] yeah, okay.

[1:01:39] >> [laughter]

[1:01:41] >> So, this is actually kind of why we, you

[1:01:43] know, need the nuns to have that kind of

[1:01:45] perspective as well to actually to be

[1:01:46] able to uh relate in that kind of way.

[1:01:49] So, I think it's an important role that

[1:01:51] you play because it's like

[1:01:53] >> [gasps]

[1:01:53] >> there's certain things like monks just

[1:01:55] like just don't get. They just don't

[1:01:57] get. People ask me about um

[1:02:00] a lot of things in the world. I was

[1:02:01] like, "Yeah, I don't get it." So, like I

[1:02:02] can't really give a good explanation of

[1:02:04] it.

[1:02:05] So, I think like having that perspective

[1:02:06] is like is incredibly it's incredibly

[1:02:08] important and you should share it more.

[1:02:14] One more question? Yep.

[1:02:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:02:23] >> [laughter]

[1:02:25] [panting]

[1:02:25] >> Are we talking about interconnected

[1:02:27] responsibility and and yeah, anyway,

[1:02:31] let's let's not go down the rabbit hole.

[1:02:32] >> Hi John. Um you know, I just want to

[1:02:35] uh it's in the news about Helen Haines.

[1:02:38] >> Yep.

[1:02:38] >> Um the MP who

[1:02:40] >> Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:40] >> suddenly on on that day she's now in

[1:02:43] hospital

[1:02:43] >> Yeah.

[1:02:44] >> with two legs amputated now. She's an

[1:02:46] excellent you know, what happened to her

[1:02:49] on that day? She didn't expect, right?

[1:02:52] >> Yeah.

[1:02:52] >> And something this guy came out of

[1:02:55] nowhere

[1:02:56] >> Yep.

[1:02:56] >> and rammed his rammed his SUV into her

[1:03:00] legs [snorts] and uh

[1:03:01] >> Yep.

[1:03:01] >> So, I mean,

[1:03:04] looking looking at her life

[1:03:06] >> Mhm.

[1:03:07] >> now it's completely changed, right? With

[1:03:09] with having

[1:03:11] >> no legs [snorts]

[1:03:12] and she'll have a completely different

[1:03:14] kind of life. So, what's you know,

[1:03:16] where's the interconnectedness in here?

[1:03:18] I mean, yeah, I she's going to make

[1:03:20] sense out of this

[1:03:22] um somehow

[1:03:23] because she she didn't expect this to

[1:03:26] happen.

[1:03:28] >> Yeah.

[1:03:28] >> on that day.

[1:03:29] >> Yeah.

[1:03:31] >> But it did happen, right?

[1:03:33] >> And uh you um

[1:03:35] in that place. So,

[1:03:37] what are your thoughts on that? How do

[1:03:38] you

[1:03:39] >> So, is the question here um

[1:03:42] just so I understand properly,

[1:03:43] is the question here how do you

[1:03:45] understand the randomness of that or is

[1:03:47] like how should

[1:03:49] uh Helen herself understand it and take

[1:03:53] >> Uh yeah, I I would say how would you

[1:03:56] like if you were

[1:03:58] advising her or if you were talking to

[1:04:00] her,

[1:04:02] how would she make sense out of this

[1:04:05] randomness this what it was

[1:04:07] uh in a in a sense you know, I I don't

[1:04:09] see it being connected because she

[1:04:12] didn't have any relationship with this

[1:04:14] person who

[1:04:17] um who who committed this crime, right?

[1:04:19] Um she didn't know him. Or he just came

[1:04:22] out of the blue and rammed his SUV into

[1:04:26] her. So,

[1:04:27] how would you like uh you know, like

[1:04:31] okay, she's one individual

[1:04:33] and of course it has not happened to any

[1:04:35] of us here, but

[1:04:37] something you know, uh how do you how

[1:04:41] would you what would you advise her, you

[1:04:44] know?

[1:04:45] >> Well, the you know, the first thing just

[1:04:47] kind of have to say is like it's you

[1:04:49] know,

[1:04:49] obviously like

[1:04:51] incredibly sympathetic for this thing

[1:04:53] that happened is you know, cuz there's a

[1:04:55] lot of random things that happen in the

[1:04:56] world that are just like not fair.

[1:04:59] Um so, and this is one of these things.

[1:05:01] So, kind of you know, extending

[1:05:03] extending that kind of like like

[1:05:06] compassion and kindness towards them

[1:05:08] like that's the I think that's the kind

[1:05:09] of the main thing. The second thing is

[1:05:11] is I like like I you know, and to be

[1:05:13] like incredibly honest about this is

[1:05:15] like I don't know.

[1:05:16] Like I really don't know what it's like.

[1:05:19] Um um so I think it would be a matter of

[1:05:22] like

[1:05:23] talking to her and listening to her

[1:05:25] about like what it's actually like for

[1:05:27] this thing to happen. How is How is she

[1:05:30] interpreting the experience itself?

[1:05:32] Because, you know, if I if I could kind

[1:05:34] of put a stamp on something like that

[1:05:35] and go

[1:05:37] look at it in the in this way, it's like

[1:05:39] I'm kind of I'm taking her autonomy away

[1:05:42] from this.

[1:05:43] So it would be a matter of going like

[1:05:45] how do you How does she herself actually

[1:05:47] see it? What is she taking out of this

[1:05:49] situation?

[1:05:51] Um what kind of resiliency herself is

[1:05:54] she drawing on? What What kind of like

[1:05:57] mind states are coming up that are

[1:05:58] causing her to like view the thing view

[1:06:01] view the situation in a particular kind

[1:06:03] of way?

[1:06:04] So I'm just I'm always just like very

[1:06:06] cautious about saying like what would I

[1:06:08] do in that situation cuz you know cuz I

[1:06:09] don't know. My first reaction is to ask

[1:06:13] questions about

[1:06:14] how that individual is actually

[1:06:17] uh viewing viewing something like that.

[1:06:19] So yeah, I I I don't want to kind of

[1:06:21] like jump on and give an answer to that

[1:06:23] because I think it's it's I think it's

[1:06:25] always imperative of the individual to

[1:06:29] like to

[1:06:31] take autonomy take autonomy for the way

[1:06:33] that they're viewing it. And if I could

[1:06:35] support it in any kind of way, if I

[1:06:37] could understand it in any kind of way,

[1:06:39] like that's that's all my kind of role

[1:06:41] really is in it. So yeah.

[1:06:44] Yeah.

[1:06:45] But with that we're

[1:06:46] we're at the we're at the at the

[1:06:47] announcement time now, so I'll pass it

[1:06:50] back over to Srichard.

[1:06:51] >> Thank you very much Srichard for

[1:06:53] fantastic [snorts] talk today.

[1:06:55] And to the nuns as well for

[1:06:56] contributing.

[1:06:57] >> Big big hand to the nuns, yeah.

[1:07:00] Again, do do you want them to come back?

[1:07:04] How How much How much do you want them

[1:07:06] to come back?

[1:07:07] >> A lot.

[1:07:08] >> A lot? Who Who Put your hand up if you

[1:07:10] want them to come back.

[1:07:12] >> Come back to give them a talk.

[1:07:13] >> Yeah, literally everybody. Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:15] Okay.

[1:07:17] Okay, thanks Arjun.

BD
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Questions fréquemment posées

The teacher in this talk describes that as one of two extremes to avoid. It is a common assumption that bad events reflect past wrongdoing, but the speaker calls this sometimes an oversimplification and asks listeners to find a middle position between self-blame and a vague sense that everything is shared.
The teacher quotes this passage from the Anguttara Nikaya and reads it as a statement that personal intentions and actions matter and have consequences. The talk treats it as a teaching about personal responsibility, to be weighed against the reality that other people shape our lives.
An intuition pump is a thought experiment used to draw out the view a listener already holds. In this talk, the teacher asks who believes bad things happen for a reason, and who takes responsibility when something goes wrong, before testing those answers against a real example.
The talk poses this as an open question rather than answering it outright, offering individual, shared, both, or neither as the options. The teacher uses a case of employee theft and a question about theft and sickness to test how far personal karma reaches.
The talk takes up a listener's question about whether guilt is innately negative and treats it as a serious topic. The teacher's broader emphasis is on knowing what is skillful and which actions lead to suffering, rather than building a ledger of blame.
Interconnection describes how other people's decisions and actions shape our lives, while karma refers to the intentions and actions that have consequences for the person who acts. This talk argues that both must be considered together, because repeating 'everything is interconnected' can dissolve responsibility just as thoroughly as 'everything is my karma' inflates it.

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