Transcript
[0:04] [Music]
[0:23] jagur so we are studying the Bhagavad
[0:26] Gita 13th chapter we have just begun the
[0:30] uh
[0:31] verses 1 and two and we stopped
[0:34] there going to stop and explore this a
[0:37] little more I said that ADI Shankar aara
[0:41] has written an extensive commentary on
[0:44] the second verse of the 13th chapter his
[0:48] largest longest commentary in the whole
[0:51] Bhagavad Gita It's actually an uh
[0:54] inquiry into what is AD vant really so
[0:58] we'll chant these two verses again
[1:01] and then we'll continue with the
[1:03] discussion
[1:04] ban you can repeat ban
[1:29] [Music]
[1:43] VRA
[1:55] [Music]
[2:08] he says here SRI Krishna
[2:12] that these bodies we have just label
[2:15] them
[2:17] Fields chetra
[2:20] field and those who experience these
[2:23] bodies from
[2:24] within label them knowers of the field
[2:28] chetra chetra means field trra knowers
[2:31] of the
[2:32] field and by saying this he is making
[2:35] the distinction between field and field
[2:37] knower he is making this most important
[2:40] Insight is giving us this Insight we are
[2:43] not
[2:45] bodies we have often discussed this this
[2:47] is the first step in the vedantic
[2:49] inquiry that we are not bodies the
[2:51] bodies are there but we are not
[2:54] bodies and we discussed how using for
[2:58] example an inquiry like Sear and
[3:01] see we can come to an understanding we
[3:03] can grasp it for ourselves how in what
[3:06] sense am I not the body no notice he's
[3:08] not saying that the body is not there
[3:09] body is there but I am not literally
[3:12] this body and that also applies to the
[3:15] mind there a distinction between body
[3:17] mind and I am the witness consciousness
[3:19] of
[3:20] this now is this all that is to be known
[3:25] is this the final
[3:27] knowledge in the lead lead lead
[3:30] commentary to the second verse Shankar
[3:33] aara raises this question is that all I
[3:35] am not the body I'm not the mind I'm the
[3:37] witness
[3:38] Consciousness that's a huge step forward
[3:40] by the way that's San philosophy
[3:44] basically u in sank philosophy there is
[3:48] this material nature the universe called
[3:51] prakriti the entire universe our
[3:53] biological bodies Our psychological
[3:55] Minds intellect buddhi all of that is
[3:58] nature it's not you
[4:01] and there is
[4:03] consciousness Limitless Consciousness
[4:06] each of us is a limitless
[4:09] Consciousness called purusha there are
[4:11] many purusas many such beings we are all
[4:13] each of us is such a
[4:15] being um and we the in sanin um Paradigm
[4:22] the problem is that we have become
[4:26] confused see material nature and
[4:29] consciousness prakriti and purusha
[4:31] interact where do they interact they
[4:33] interact in these bodies in each of us
[4:36] we are basically interactions of matter
[4:38] and spirit of prti and purusha all of us
[4:41] right now but we are not combinations of
[4:45] matter and spirit we are Spirit itself
[4:47] we are Consciousness itself we are
[4:50] purusha we somehow we don't know that
[4:52] and so what Sanka does is to teach us to
[4:56] separate these two in our understanding
[4:58] they are already separate but we are not
[5:00] seeing them separately so see the
[5:03] separateness the distinction of these
[5:05] two and that's Freedom according to
[5:07] sankya what is bondage according to
[5:09] Sania mixing up Consciousness and matter
[5:11] subject and object and what's Freedom
[5:14] according to Sanka
[5:16] separation voga yoga is voga Yoga
[5:19] literally means joining but in sanan
[5:21] sense it's
[5:23] separation um because of this so why is
[5:26] it a problem and what is it a solution
[5:28] why is separation a solution it's a
[5:30] problem because all that happens in
[5:33] material nature we take upon
[5:36] ourselves so birth and aging and illness
[5:40] and know physical suffering and eventual
[5:43] death and rebirth all of that we take
[5:46] upon ourselves the conscious being
[5:48] because we think we are these
[5:49] bodies and then anxiety and fear and
[5:53] unhappiness and desire and frustration
[5:57] all of these things which are
[5:59] characteristics of the mind we take upon
[6:02] ourselves because we do not see the
[6:04] difference between ourselves and the
[6:06] mind it's like being reflected you you
[6:09] see you forgotten your real face and you
[6:12] see yourself reflected in the mirror and
[6:14] then the Dust In The Mirror you think my
[6:16] face has become Dusty or my face has
[6:18] become concave or convex or the mirror
[6:20] is cracked and my face has become
[6:21] cracked no it's the reflection in the
[6:23] mirror similarly Consciousness shining
[6:25] on the Mind whatever happens in the mind
[6:28] you know unhappiness and anger
[6:31] misery guilt whatever is there in the
[6:33] mind it's all you we we own it and then
[6:37] we
[6:40] suffer I hear
[6:44] myself it's material
[6:47] nature
[6:52] yes oh somebody's watching live stream
[6:54] and me also at the same
[6:56] time
[6:58] yes it's uh that's an infinite feedback
[7:01] feedback
[7:04] loop so the separation knowing yourself
[7:07] as pure Consciousness and then working
[7:09] through the body mind then you're free
[7:10] of it with Consciousness by itself is
[7:12] not born it does not age it does not die
[7:14] the bodies do that Consciousness does
[7:16] not become um unhappy or miserable or
[7:21] even Consciousness does not wake dream
[7:23] or sleep it is the mind which wakes
[7:25] dreams and sleeps so if you can separate
[7:28] these two and clearly see the
[7:30] distinction even while you are operating
[7:32] the body mind You' be free this is but
[7:35] this is
[7:36] s this is
[7:38] s ad is a step forward is
[7:42] further in ad V what happens the second
[7:45] verse Krishna says that uh Oneness it's
[7:51] not
[7:51] separation after separating yourself
[7:54] seeing the distinction between yourself
[7:56] and body mind then this pure
[7:58] Consciousness itself this with
[8:00] Consciousness itself this is one in all
[8:03] bodies and minds and this is that one in
[8:05] which the all bodies minds and the
[8:07] universe appears in
[8:09] that all knowers and the known all
[8:11] subjects and objects they appear in this
[8:14] ground the you know we can call it
[8:16] godhead you call it Brahman you call it
[8:19] the absolute the ground whatever you
[8:22] call it and that we are so that is what
[8:25] Krishna says in the second verse he goes
[8:27] further shankaracharya asked this
[8:29] question is this enough to know the
[8:30] distinction between chetra Andra in
[8:32] other words he's asking is Sania enough
[8:35] and he says no there's something more
[8:38] and Krishna goes on to say something
[8:40] which is not accepted by
[8:41] S there is one Consciousness in all
[8:44] bodies and Minds not one knower of the
[8:47] field in every field no apparently so
[8:50] but really if you investigate the knower
[8:52] of the field you'll find that there is
[8:54] one noer of the field
[8:56] ultimately this is San does not agree
[9:00] with this Sanka says there are many
[9:02] consciousnesses one Consciousness why
[9:05] one Consciousness why not many
[9:06] consciousnesses these debates mean there
[9:08] are lot of discussions on this further
[9:12] all these fields and the world and every
[9:14] Universe they're all appearing in that
[9:16] Consciousness what do you mean appearing
[9:18] they're not do you see the difference
[9:19] between appearing to and appearing
[9:22] in I'll give you three statements the
[9:25] universe appears to you the
[9:27] Consciousness one two the universe
[9:31] appears in you the Consciousness
[9:35] three the you the Consciousness appear
[9:38] as your own
[9:40] Universe three I'll tell you the
[9:43] difference between them point out the
[9:45] distinctions when I say the universe
[9:47] appears to us it means there's a
[9:50] distinct Universe which is appearing to
[9:51] me there's a universe and I'm
[9:53] experiencing it because I'm conscious
[9:56] that's one and that most people wouldn't
[9:58] dispute yeah that's more less what's
[10:01] happening but the second one is a big
[10:03] step forward is that the Universe
[10:05] appears in our Consciousness but in I
[10:08] mean just like a the example would be a
[10:11] dream Universe like the dream Universe
[10:14] we all we all admit dreams whatever we
[10:17] saw in the dream whoever we saw and
[10:19] whatever happened the space time objects
[10:21] people events all in the dream they are
[10:24] all it's not that they appeared to us
[10:27] they appeared in US we all agree the
[10:31] entire dream Universe was in the
[10:33] dreaming mind in my mind we agree like
[10:38] that ad vant is claiming actually in the
[10:41] waking State also this physical Universe
[10:43] it's not appearing to you it's appearing
[10:45] in
[10:48] you and then goes
[10:50] further it's appearing in me this
[10:53] universe is appearing in Consciousness
[10:55] what's this universe made
[10:57] of if the dream world is appearing in
[11:00] the dreaming mind then what's the dream
[11:02] world made of is it made of bricks and
[11:05] stones and water and air and fire and
[11:08] atoms and protons and super strings no
[11:10] if it's appearing as a dream in our
[11:12] minds it's made of
[11:14] mind I'm not saying anything new this is
[11:17] what we understand our dreams to be
[11:19] whatever our minds us when we dream
[11:21] whatever our minds are our dreams are
[11:23] made of the Mind what's the stuff when
[11:25] you say this is table is made of wood
[11:28] but if I dream of this table would that
[11:30] table in the dream be made of wood no
[11:33] when we wake up we'll realize it's just
[11:35] right now for example if I show you the
[11:37] book you'll see yeah the book is made of
[11:39] paper and cardboard and all that but now
[11:41] close your eyes and visualize the book
[11:43] which I just showed you right now that
[11:45] visualization which we are doing that
[11:47] visualized book what is it made of is it
[11:49] actually made of paper no no of course
[11:51] not it's made of thought of imagination
[11:55] similarly if it is appearing in
[11:57] Consciousness the universe
[12:00] then it must be made of
[12:03] Consciousness so that's the third
[12:04] statement it's Consciousness alone
[12:07] appearing to itself as its own universe
[12:10] and that's ad why is it ad because there
[12:12] is no two anymore even while the
[12:16] universe is appearing even when billions
[12:18] of people and billions of living beings
[12:21] and non-living entities tables and
[12:23] chairs quarks and quazar are appearing
[12:26] and disappearing to you you can claim
[12:28] honestly there's only one one
[12:31] thing Consciousness alone or Atman alone
[12:34] or Brahman alone that alone is
[12:38] there that is non-duality because no
[12:40] second thing even while you are
[12:42] experiencing the second even when we are
[12:44] experiencing the other no other exists
[12:47] because the other is you this is Oneness
[12:50] this is
[12:51] non-duality Swami viand was reading in
[12:55] that book The Inspired talks right here
[12:57] in Upstate New York on Thousand Island
[12:59] Park very inspiring this powerful
[13:02] non-dualistic statement he makes he
[13:06] says there is only one God and that God
[13:10] is the he qus a new term knowest of all
[13:14] that is
[13:15] known it is all that we ever
[13:18] see see he means I'm I'm commenting on
[13:21] that see hear smell taste touch think
[13:24] feel enjoy suffer it is just that one
[13:31] and then the next statement he says no
[13:35] living being even animals can deny the
[13:38] the the intuition of I am the self
[13:42] exists the existence of self cannot be
[13:44] denied by anybody now look at this it
[13:46] seems like a whiplash he's saying
[13:49] there's only one God that exists one
[13:51] true God that exists okay all religions
[13:53] have said that but the next he says it's
[13:55] the most known of all that all religions
[13:58] have not said God seems to be unknown a
[14:00] matter of faith is is not not at all a
[14:02] matter of faith everything that we
[14:04] experience is this one Divinity alone
[14:07] it's the most known of all known things
[14:10] but then what do you mean exactly it's
[14:12] the most known of all known
[14:14] things what is the one thing which we
[14:16] cannot deny which you are completely
[14:18] sure of all the time that I
[14:21] am so that what is God it is the most
[14:25] known of all things oh how it is
[14:28] everything that we see
[14:30] see here smell whatever we experience oh
[14:32] really how
[14:34] so next he says it's you the
[14:38] self the knower of the
[14:41] field and then further he goes on to
[14:44] explain it one more sentence he
[14:47] says the self alone is projected as all
[14:50] that we
[14:51] see or all that we experience is a
[14:54] projection of the self it is the
[14:56] Consciousness alone appearing as all
[14:58] therefore Nel this I'm saying n butand
[15:01] didn't say
[15:03] it and then he goes on to say
[15:09] that it is very simple teach it to
[15:12] children for they can understand
[15:15] it it's not a very uh complex subtle
[15:19] argument it's actually the most direct
[15:21] of our it's so simple that we miss it
[15:23] all the time and that's the key and the
[15:26] key to the mystery of this universe what
[15:28] is all this and what's happening and
[15:29] it's also the solution to all our
[15:31] problems a deep
[15:33] solution so that's nity what Krishna is
[15:36] saying here what Shankar AAR is
[15:38] commenting upon VI says this there and
[15:41] he goes on to say I mean this not
[15:42] directly relevant but let me tell you
[15:43] what he says application of this he says
[15:47] it is this indecent clinging to life
[15:50] that is the source of all weakness all
[15:52] sin all
[15:54] unhappiness indecent clinging to life he
[15:57] says
[16:00] uh he he says he goes on to
[16:03] say what can die when my life is in
[16:06] everything in the universe when even one
[16:09] being lives I am not
[16:11] dead even our minds cannot
[16:14] die when one being is thinking I am
[16:16] thinking because it's all an appearance
[16:18] in me the one
[16:21] Consciousness and he is because of this
[16:23] clinging to life that we want to live in
[16:28] this one little little little body more
[16:30] and more and more he says it is nothing
[16:32] we do we are not worried about the fall
[16:34] of one hair let this the fall of this
[16:36] one body is less than
[16:41] that I'm paraphrasing a little bit
[16:46] here so um as you can see very deep uh
[16:52] the most profound of all teachings this
[16:55] morning slightly changing the discussion
[16:58] this morning
[16:59] I had a conversation with a Swami from
[17:03] uh haridwar in the foothills of the
[17:05] Himalayas he has come here last
[17:08] yeari Prav Chan he gave a talk here I
[17:13] translated from Hindi to English so he
[17:16] called uh it's possible he might be
[17:18] coming soon again so but he raised a
[17:21] question and he discussed a little bit
[17:23] with me I'll share with you what he said
[17:27] he said
[17:29] consider the distinction in the idea of
[17:33] ignorance in adant and
[17:36] S I'll repeat again both of them claim
[17:39] ignorance is the problem and knowledge
[17:41] is the
[17:42] solution but what kind of ignorance
[17:44] ignorance about
[17:46] what the distinct what the nature of
[17:49] ignorance in Sanka what are we ignorant
[17:51] about and the nature of ignorance in ad
[17:54] what are we ignorant about they're
[17:56] different what is the difference in
[17:59] Sanka the nature of the ignorance is we
[18:03] do not know that we are separate from
[18:05] Material
[18:06] nature so the problems of material
[18:09] nature the problems of the
[18:10] characteristics of the body we
[18:12] superimpose upon ourselves upon
[18:14] Consciousness superimpose upon
[18:15] Consciousness means that which belongs
[18:17] to the body we take it as
[18:19] ourselves tall short man woman dark fair
[18:24] skin there is a body I take it upon
[18:27] myself young old body I take it upon
[18:29] myself healthy ill body I take it upon
[18:33] myself birth death body I take it upon
[18:36] myself
[18:38] instantaneously I don't have to sign a
[18:40] document for that I behave that way I
[18:42] think that way I feel that way that's
[18:46] because I take the body upon I don't see
[18:47] the distinction between myself so the
[18:49] ignorance regarding the distinction
[18:52] between Consciousness and matter and
[18:54] even worse mind the characteristics of
[18:57] the mind I super impose upon misery
[19:00] anxiety fear Terror waking dreaming
[19:04] sleeping all I superimpose upon myself
[19:07] I'm not even the mind not even the body
[19:09] not even the Mind these are products of
[19:11] nature I do not see the distinction that
[19:13] is ignorance and when that ignorance is
[19:15] overcome by sanan knowledge I realize
[19:17] myself as pure
[19:20] Consciousness but clearly Still Remains
[19:23] as a dualistic system Consciousness and
[19:25] matter spirit and matter Consciousness
[19:28] and object
[19:31] whereas he said
[19:33] inant what is the nature of
[19:36] Maya what is the nature of ignorance Aya
[19:40] Maya
[19:42] inant it is um I'm translating what he
[19:46] said it is an you cannot say that it is
[19:50] you cannot say that it is not and it is
[19:52] entirely within Consciousness projecting
[19:55] Consciousness as this display of this
[19:58] universe
[20:01] so it is not just a confusion in the
[20:03] intellect as it seems to be in Sanka
[20:06] here it is a power of Brahman or Atman
[20:09] which projects Brahman existence
[20:11] Consciousness place as this entire
[20:17] universe so Brahman itself appears as
[20:20] this universe in Sanka that's not true
[20:22] in Sanka you are not this universe in
[20:24] fact you are distinct from this universe
[20:25] that's the thing here it's the opposite
[20:28] you you are this universe this universe
[20:33] our problem then in ad is that we
[20:35] identify ourselves with a slice of this
[20:37] universe this little body mind and then
[20:39] everybody else is an other we do not
[20:41] know what we are Immortal Consciousness
[20:46] existence and we we identify ourselves
[20:49] with what we are not this body
[20:51] mind so when we remove ignorance in
[20:55] adant we arrive at non-duality in Sanka
[20:58] we are arrive at Duality Consciousness
[21:00] and matter I am not this in ad vant we
[21:04] arrive at I am the reality of all that
[21:07] exists and the one Consciousness and in
[21:10] the one lower of the field in all Fields
[21:12] as as Krishna has
[21:20] said in dualistic religions we have this
[21:24] triangle isar
[21:27] jagat isar God J sentient beings like us
[21:32] jagat the
[21:33] world what Krishna is saying here is is
[21:36] dramatic he is saying the truth there's
[21:38] a truth to be understood about the world
[21:40] about yourselves and yes about me God
[21:43] what is that truth We Are All One
[21:45] existence Consciousness pleas ultimately
[21:48] ultimately that is what has been said
[21:50] now and Shankar aara in his commentary
[21:53] says the real knowledge Krishna says
[21:55] this is knowledge according to me this
[21:57] is Ultimate knowledge according to me
[21:58] the Tim knowledge is to know everything
[22:01] to the end what is this world ultimately
[22:04] really what are we really not stopping
[22:07] halfway like Sanka and what is God Sanka
[22:10] doesn't even talk about God so what is
[22:13] God really isar J jagat these are
[22:17] ultimately one existence Consciousness
[22:19] place not Parts there is only one
[22:22] appearing as a world appearing as many
[22:25] sentient beings and appearing as the God
[22:27] of all of this
[22:29] so this is uh this is a dramatic
[22:32] difference so the Swami was telling me
[22:34] when you distinguish between sankya and
[22:37] yoga on one hand and ad on the other
[22:40] hand notice the difference in their
[22:43] understanding of ignorance what is it
[22:45] that we are ignorant
[22:46] of so the second verse the first verse
[22:50] San would be very happy with it field
[22:52] and knower of the field see see you are
[22:54] the knower of the field everything else
[22:55] is the field the second verse San would
[22:58] be uneasy with it
[22:59] I am the knower in all fields and these
[23:02] fields are also not distinct from the
[23:04] knower how is that hasn't been mentioned
[23:07] it's taken for granted because in vanta
[23:10] ishwar the creator of this universe the
[23:11] universe is not distinct from the
[23:13] creator of this universe it's iswar
[23:16] alone appears as this
[23:19] universe Vantas I will not explain but
[23:22] those who curious about what am I
[23:24] talking about isar sahman is the
[23:29] of Jag what does it mean the one uh an
[23:33] undivided material
[23:35] cause instrumental and material cause of
[23:38] this universe so this universe is
[23:40] nothing other than the Divinity itself
[23:42] so it's an imminent Divinity in and
[23:44] through this entire universe all
[23:46] right but that's not our subject today
[23:49] our subject is the discussions all this
[23:52] is very fine but there are uh huge
[23:56] objections so multiple objections we
[23:58] studied last time they have come what
[23:59] are the objections quickly four
[24:01] objections were set up against
[24:05] nality the opponents various
[24:07] philosophies you can imagine sank among
[24:09] them Naya among them other philosophies
[24:12] they come forward other D systems they
[24:15] say wait a minute raining on your nonuel
[24:19] parade if you are saying according to
[24:22] Krishna Krishna has just said iswar
[24:25] Andra no of the field and God are one
[24:28] and the same that means either God
[24:31] becomes a sentient being like us problem
[24:34] because then God is no longer God God
[24:36] becomes a j or in the words of Shankar
[24:38] the question is say God becomes a samsar
[24:40] iswar becomes a Samari Samari is like us
[24:44] we are propelled by our past Karma going
[24:46] from birth to birth we you know we are
[24:49] world through samsar if isar is like
[24:53] that what good is if then God is
[24:54] imperfect God is no longer God then it's
[24:57] imperfection all or the other way around
[25:00] there is no samsar in that case we are
[25:02] all one with God so God is always free
[25:04] iswar is always free so if you're all
[25:06] one with God then we are not in samsara
[25:08] we are free we are free there is no
[25:11] samsar so there's no Samari we are all
[25:14] one with God after all there is no
[25:16] Samari nobody in samsara then samsara is
[25:18] not there the problem itself has gone
[25:20] away you see what could be wrong with
[25:23] that what is wrong with that is then
[25:26] what are we doing here in that case it
[25:27] seems to have no connection at all with
[25:30] reality
[25:32] third if this is so if we are all iswar
[25:36] one with iswara then what's the point of
[25:38] all these texts
[25:40] vishad all of these teachings they all
[25:43] meant to Deliver Us from samsara freedom
[25:45] from cycle of birth and death but you're
[25:46] already saying we are not samsaris then
[25:48] what's the point then what is called
[25:50] shastra meaninglessness of the scripture
[25:53] would
[25:54] UE third third objection these are all
[25:57] heavy duty objections enough to sink
[25:59] your ship of nonduality and the fourth
[26:02] one most dramatic is it's completely
[26:06] against all means of perception all
[26:08] means of knowledge we can clearly see
[26:11] nity is not true it's Duality
[26:14] dualism samsara is real we can see it we
[26:18] our sources of knowledge our perceptions
[26:22] our you know inference all of them
[26:24] reveal samsara how can you say samsara
[26:27] is not there so these are the objections
[26:30] and Shankar aara replies last time we
[26:32] saw with a cryptic half sentence he says
[26:35] no
[26:41] nope I'm reading from Shankar's
[26:43] commentary he says this is all
[26:46] justifiable I can you know I can
[26:49] explain it's like you catch a kid with
[26:52] his hand in the cookie jar and what are
[26:54] you doing and I can
[26:56] explain so Shankar says I can explain
[26:58] how can you explain by the difference
[27:00] between knowledge and ignorance
[27:03] everything makes sense by the difference
[27:05] between knowledge and
[27:06] ignorance what does what do you mean see
[27:09] the scriptures yes you are one with
[27:12] Brahman you are Brahman that's right but
[27:15] it's no good as long as we are ignorant
[27:17] of the fact and therefore the scriptures
[27:19] are useful even though you are Brahman
[27:22] even though Krishna is right he is the
[27:24] he is identical with all knowers of the
[27:26] field in all Fields it's true
[27:30] but it's no use until we know it until
[27:32] we realize it until we know this that we
[27:35] are Brahman brahmas until we realize
[27:37] that it's no use and therefore the
[27:39] scriptures are useful why because
[27:40] there's ignorance of the fact now you
[27:42] see why the Swami's discussion about
[27:44] ignorance this morning what I'm bringing
[27:45] in what kind of ignorance is there in ad
[27:49] talks about it and what kind of
[27:50] ignorance Sanka talks about this ad the
[27:53] ignorance that ad talks about is there's
[27:55] one underlying Divinity and you are that
[27:59] we don't know that and that itself is
[28:01] appearing as this entire that we don't
[28:02] know we need to know it and therefore
[28:04] Gita upad vant all of that is
[28:08] useful you see how the difference
[28:10] between knowledge and ignorance makes a
[28:12] case for the
[28:13] scripture how does it you must be able
[28:15] to raise the question and answer it
[28:17] confidently so vant is useless because
[28:19] you say if you claim you're Brahman what
[28:20] what use is vant useful for Brahman no
[28:24] but vant is definitely useful for a
[28:26] sentient being in the condition of
[28:28] ignorance
[28:30] all right what about ishwara becoming a
[28:32] Samari or Samari becoming iswara no
[28:35] Samari and iswar are one and the same in
[28:38] conditions of knowledge you realize you
[28:39] are one with
[28:42] Brahman and um so in that
[28:46] case are you not saying if if ultimately
[28:50] ishwar and the samsar sentient being are
[28:53] equal isar is no longer iswar it is true
[28:55] ultimately ultimately if I am no longer
[28:58] a ja in this entire world is is an
[29:02] appearance then how can the nature of
[29:04] God also remain
[29:06] untouched suppose what is God after all
[29:09] God is the creator preserver destroyer
[29:11] of this universe God is omnipotent
[29:13] omnicient omnipresent and all of that
[29:15] but now suppose you
[29:17] say some people criticize that is saying
[29:21] that God is false that is not true what
[29:25] is saying is isas isar
[29:29] the go the um godness should I say the
[29:35] controller that is a
[29:38] superimposition actually iswar is none
[29:40] other than Brahman n Brahman just as you
[29:42] are Brahman can iswar be any less can
[29:44] God be any less God is also Brahman
[29:47] after all if that's not so consider the
[29:51] the alternative suppose you say I am
[29:55] Brahman is right yes I am Brahman and
[29:58] the world is an appearance then what job
[30:01] has ishwar got in that that circumstance
[30:03] if the world
[30:05] disappears if all sentient beings are
[30:08] one with
[30:10] Brahman what is ishwara creating
[30:12] preserving destroying what is iswar
[30:14] controlling who is he giving karmas to
[30:17] nothing the isa's purpose of existence
[30:19] is gone
[30:21] then it'll be administering an empty
[30:25] Universe then so iswara also is Brahman
[30:28] so you make a distinction between what
[30:30] conveniently ad calls paramar andara the
[30:33] ultimate perspective and the relative
[30:35] perspective in the relative perspective
[30:37] yes you have a world you have people and
[30:40] you have a God and you have
[30:43] Vidant from the film's perspective yes
[30:45] there is Harry Potter and there there
[30:47] are villains and there is what on the
[30:49] magic school but from the perspective of
[30:53] the movie itself it's a movie screen and
[30:55] pictures are being projected to it both
[30:57] are true
[30:58] which is more true the fact that it's a
[31:00] movie is more
[31:02] true the fact that Harry Potter goes to
[31:04] a magic school is a part of a fictional
[31:06] Universe it's true in that universe but
[31:08] that's not the ultimate truth
[31:11] similarly um so you see this is how it
[31:13] makes sense what about uh our direct
[31:17] experience this Duality well you have
[31:20] this duality in dreams also dreams also
[31:22] it all seems to be I am going and
[31:24] meeting somebody and there is this world
[31:26] around me and when I wake up I realize I
[31:28] was sleep sleeping I can actually
[31:29] experience a world of Duality even when
[31:32] it's not there today of course with
[31:34] virtual reality and all that uh it is
[31:37] more and more uh easy to see how it how
[31:40] easy it is to fool our senses when I go
[31:43] to the local library I walk P past this
[31:46] Big Apple
[31:47] shop it's very apt you know they have an
[31:50] Apple shop in Big Apple so they call it
[31:53] the Big Apple Big Apple and they make it
[31:54] in such a way the whole thing is glass
[31:56] so you can see what's happening inside
[31:58] and nowadays they have earlier they to
[32:00] show laptops and things like that I
[32:01] could see now there's a whole range of
[32:03] these glasses are there um Apple Vision
[32:07] or something like that they call it so
[32:08] it projects a whole um virtual world in
[32:12] front of you and which you with which
[32:13] you can interact and do your work
[32:15] also similarly in this case in fact um
[32:20] there's this
[32:21] book untethered Soul if you Google it
[32:27] most popular book on meditation I think
[32:30] in the top of the lists untethered soul
[32:33] I forget the name of the author um
[32:36] anybody
[32:37] remembers Michael singer singer Michael
[32:39] Singer yeah so there he gives a very
[32:43] beautiful
[32:44] um example he says that
[32:49] um imagine you've gone to a movie and
[32:52] it's very overwhelming you know big
[32:54] screen and all that it's very
[32:56] overwhelming
[32:58] and you you sitting in darkness you
[33:00] can't see yourself you're seeing the
[33:01] movie how how you get absorbed in the
[33:03] movie especially if it's a compelling
[33:05] plot now suppose it goes beyond that no
[33:08] longer 2D it's 3D and like a virtual
[33:12] reality all the characters are all
[33:14] around you not only is it 3D with depth
[33:17] and all you can see and hear but now
[33:20] suppose you can touch can shake hands
[33:23] with somebody who's coming there and
[33:25] that's possible now the in there's a
[33:27] place called MIT media Labs lot of it's
[33:30] in
[33:31] Boston so they gave me a tour and some
[33:35] of the stuff that that's going to come
[33:36] very soon into the market and all I
[33:38] don't know if I'm supposed to talk about
[33:40] it so haptic sensors you can actually
[33:44] the gloves will help you to touch all
[33:46] the virtual objects and shake hands with
[33:49] people who might be across the continent
[33:51] and so on um so suppose you're not able
[33:54] to touch also now go a little further
[33:57] you are able to
[33:59] smell some movie theater did that I read
[34:02] about it and that when there's a flower
[34:04] and the character is smelling the flower
[34:06] a little nozzle in your seat will squirt
[34:08] a little fragrance so you can smell it
[34:11] what the character is smelling and then
[34:14] suppose you can taste it also if you eat
[34:16] a virtual
[34:18] um Samosa or something you can taste
[34:22] it
[34:24] now how real would that be now he goes
[34:28] Michael Singer goes further he says not
[34:30] only that but suppose this is a special
[34:32] special movie theater where they can
[34:34] inject thoughts into your mind they're
[34:36] no longer your thoughts the thoughts of
[34:38] the
[34:39] character and they in they have a screen
[34:43] which Shields of your
[34:45] memories so now you are in the skin of
[34:48] the character you're walking in that
[34:50] place interacting with whoever the
[34:52] character is interacting with thinking
[34:54] the thoughts of that character and they
[34:56] give you a whole set of memories of that
[34:59] character what would it be
[35:02] like like this like what we are right
[35:06] now like right like right what what we
[35:09] are right now your pure Consciousness
[35:12] presented with five senses with a
[35:14] physical body with objects of the senses
[35:16] with form and light and taste and smell
[35:19] and touch heat and cold pain and
[35:22] pleasure and with a mind which will give
[35:24] you thoughts memories tell you stories
[35:26] continuously generate memories and all
[35:28] of that and now you are here you
[35:33] are so that is that's what's happening
[35:35] to us we are superimposing all of that
[35:37] upon
[35:39] ourselves
[35:41] okay
[35:43] um so why why did I say this the
[35:47] objection was but I'm seeing it how can
[35:49] it be an appearance well because you are
[35:51] seeing it in fact another let me add a
[35:52] little more the objection is how can you
[35:56] say that the world is an appearance
[35:58] appear I am seeing
[35:59] it will say exactly if you're seeing it
[36:02] it must be an
[36:05] appearance do you see the logic what do
[36:08] you mean you're seeing it it's an
[36:10] appearance in your Consciousness or in
[36:12] you the Consciousness therefore they
[36:14] have this is simple argument but it's
[36:17] rather confusing at
[36:20] first the world is false why because you
[36:23] see
[36:26] it anything that we see is an
[36:29] object right you say okay so but the
[36:32] object is presented to Consciousness
[36:34] after all you need Consciousness to
[36:35] experience an object you must be the
[36:37] knower of a field to experience the
[36:39] field okay so but is it presented to
[36:43] Consciousness or in Consciousness if you
[36:45] listen carefully to what Greg good said
[36:48] last
[36:49] Sunday he what he was trying to show is
[36:51] exactly that it seems to be that the red
[36:53] ball you see there was a red ball which
[36:55] is presented to Consciousness but then
[36:58] you'll see there is no red ball apart
[36:59] from our conscious experience of the red
[37:01] ball so the world if you're seeing
[37:03] something it's not presented to you but
[37:05] it's presented in you the Consciousness
[37:08] and if it is presented in you the
[37:09] Consciousness it's an appearance in
[37:11] Consciousness therefore it's not a real
[37:13] this not an external independent reality
[37:15] apart from you all
[37:18] right what Shankar aara says here
[37:22] is all this is the problem of knowledge
[37:25] and ignorance and to prove this he gives
[37:28] a three-part statement one is there a
[37:31] traditional way of responding to
[37:33] anything in vant you have to quote from
[37:35] the upanishads shuti to quote from the
[37:38] smiti like bhagavat Gita and you have to
[37:40] reason it out so what what does he want
[37:43] to say there's a dramatic difference
[37:45] caused by knowledge and
[37:46] ignorance to to back that up first he
[37:49] quotes from the upanishads he
[37:56] says those who have studied Kish you'll
[37:58] remember this is a quotation from the
[37:59] Kad what does it mean vast and
[38:04] distinct are the paths of knowledge and
[38:09] ignorance to to you the knower knowledge
[38:12] and ignorance makes a huge difference
[38:14] this
[38:15] is then shank goes
[38:21] on the upanishad Shankar says the
[38:24] upanishads go on to show the results of
[38:27] knowledge and ignorance are distinct
[38:30] you'll get contradictory results from
[38:32] ignorance and from knowledge again he
[38:35] quotes
[38:45] from Sha and praya these two terms were
[38:48] introduced in kopish sha means that
[38:50] which is auspicious that which is
[38:52] beneficial that is good for us prayer
[38:54] means that which is Pleasant it's the
[38:55] path of karma desire trying to fulfill
[38:58] desires and engaging in karma and
[39:00] getting the results of karma which may
[39:02] be good or bad Pleasant or unpleasant
[39:04] it's called The Way of the pleasant way
[39:06] of the good and the way of the pleasant
[39:08] the way of the auspicious and the
[39:10] instinctive drive to fulfill our
[39:13] desires and he says these two are
[39:17] different you attain the auspicious
[39:20] which is Enlightenment and freedom
[39:22] through knowledge he
[39:26] says the object
[39:28] of knowledge Isa is the auspicious
[39:31] attainment of MOA freedom and then he
[39:34] says PR ayaam the the product of
[39:39] ignorance is the world is the way of
[39:42] karma prya means the pleasant by doing
[39:46] having desires then striving to fulfill
[39:48] those desires generating Karma and the
[39:51] effects of karma I'm trapped in samsar
[39:54] so this is getting from the upanishad
[39:56] and then he goes through a series of
[39:58] quotations of the openads which I'm not
[40:00] going to go through the next step is to
[40:02] quote from the smriti another class of
[40:05] text secondary to the open so there
[40:09] he sampling of quotes a couple of quotes
[40:12] two or three quotes from the G itself he
[40:15] says in the two we
[40:21] find Fifth verse of 15th chapter
[40:32] no this is 15th verse of fifth
[40:35] chapter by ignorance uh is are are
[40:41] deluded all all sentient beings so G
[40:44] itself says we are all deluded by
[40:51] ignorance this is the 19th verse of the
[40:54] fifth
[40:55] chapter here itself you
[40:58] overcome um the cycle of birth and
[41:02] death who overcomes those whose minds
[41:06] are centered in Oneness samya means in
[41:08] evenness in sameness you see the same
[41:12] reality in the midst it says here here
[41:14] itself here means in the midst of
[41:15] tremendous diversity you see the
[41:17] underlying Oneness they have overcome
[41:20] the cycle of birth and death clearly the
[41:23] knowledge of this underlying Oneness
[41:26] takes you beyond Samar
[41:28] ignorance of this underlying Oneness
[41:30] thrusts you into samsara Gita says
[41:32] Krishna says it then next 13th chapter
[41:37] 28th
[41:39] verse So In This Very chapter it will
[41:42] come later on so those who see in all
[41:46] beings that one underlying Divinity
[41:48] which Krishna has said I am the one
[41:50] knower in all beings see they will
[41:53] attain freedom so again and again it is
[41:55] to to something to be seen to be to to
[41:57] be realized to be known knowledge
[41:59] knowledge knowledge that will rescue us
[42:01] from samsara which is a product of
[42:04] ignorance so again the SM Gita itself
[42:07] says this next an
[42:11] argument and from reasoning also we have
[42:13] Shankar says let's reason about this
[42:16] what are we reasoning about what are we
[42:17] talking about what are we quoting the
[42:19] difference between knowledge and
[42:20] ignorance he wants to say it's all your
[42:22] questions will will be answered if you
[42:24] see it as a difference between knowledge
[42:26] and ignorance
[42:27] the reasoning is
[42:41] this so he's quoting from the
[42:44] Mahabharata but there's an argument here
[42:49] snakes Wells Kush that means these grass
[42:55] which has very sharp tips so if you walk
[42:57] with bare feet or touch them with your
[42:58] bare hands you might get a nasty little
[43:01] cut knowing the presence of a snake or
[43:05] or an open well or that this is sharp
[43:07] grass what do they what do people do man
[43:10] people carefully avoid those
[43:12] areas
[43:17] and but some people who don't know about
[43:19] or ignorant about it there is an open
[43:21] well there or there's a poisonous snake
[43:23] there or there's sharp grass there what
[43:25] happens they fall into that and they get
[43:28] hurt what's your point he
[43:35] says note the distinctive result the
[43:39] benefit of
[43:41] knowledge this is the argument he's
[43:43] making all
[43:45] right now we might say I understand the
[43:48] point about snakes and Wells and sharp
[43:50] grass but we are not talking about that
[43:52] we're talking about samsara and
[43:53] Consciousness and Brahman and you know
[43:55] field and no more of the field what are
[43:57] you trying to demonstrate so Shankar
[44:00] next he says how ignorance causes all
[44:04] this samsara and knowledge solves all of
[44:07] this problem he's now explaining T to
[44:10] explain
[44:21] further we understand that Aidan the
[44:26] ignorant one the one who does not know
[44:29] the truth of vant what
[44:33] happens has the feeling that body Etc
[44:38] are the self I am this body what's this
[44:41] body I what are you
[44:44] this and ADI means Etc what's Etc senses
[44:48] and mind and ideas and personality I am
[44:52] this body mind complex then what happens
[44:56] ra impelled by uh strong likes and
[45:01] dislikes the moment I'm the body mind I
[45:04] am bound to have preferences and
[45:06] dislikes I'm bound to want some things
[45:09] and be afraid of other things the moment
[45:11] I'm thisp you can't help it you can be
[45:14] brave about it you can exercise
[45:16] self-control about it but as long as you
[45:18] feel you are this you will be
[45:23] affected
[45:25] so ra propelled by desires likes and
[45:30] dislikes attractions and repulsions what
[45:32] do we
[45:36] do this ignorant one performs Dharma and
[45:40] adharma moral and immoral actions
[45:43] basically does things in the world
[45:45] engages in action as an agent of actions
[45:49] does
[45:49] things if the person is wise within the
[45:53] limits of Ethics within the limits of
[45:55] morality tries to do the decent thing in
[45:57] the pursuit of the worldly goals and
[45:59] remember these worldly goals according
[46:00] to Shankar are all based on ignorance
[46:03] they're all a product of
[46:07] delusion I need food to survive no you
[46:11] don't what do you mean
[46:15] Swami no you don't you the body needs
[46:18] food to survive yeah that's what I meant
[46:20] but you're not the
[46:25] body me you're dependent on the next
[46:27] breath of air that you take to re
[46:30] existence no you're not the body is
[46:34] you're
[46:37] not so this is what vianda calls this
[46:41] indecent clinging to life it it'll come
[46:43] the moment we think we are the body
[46:45] without any doubt we will cling to life
[46:46] because the body wants to survive that's
[46:48] the very nature of a biological machine
[46:50] it wants to
[46:51] continue and we'll own it it's my desire
[46:55] it isn't actually you have been fooled
[46:59] you what's the for You' have been
[47:02] had and if you think the body is a
[47:04] trickster no it isn't it's it's a simple
[47:07] term its desires and activities are
[47:09] pretty simple the mind is terrifying
[47:14] it's
[47:18] terrifying the Mind enjoys its
[47:22] Madness yeah I was reading this there
[47:25] are um mental patients you know one
[47:28] reason why
[47:30] they they do resist taking pills is that
[47:34] it seems once you take those pills um
[47:39] the brightness goes out of
[47:41] life it dulls those very faculties which
[47:45] which generate the madness I was reading
[47:48] yesterday so there's this very close to
[47:51] us very noted professor of Economics
[47:55] Kosik Basu Professor Kosik Basu has
[47:56] written this book book reason to be
[47:59] happy it has a double meaning he means
[48:01] that to be happy you should reason also
[48:04] there are reasons to be happy
[48:06] so now he loves Game Theory I mean sort
[48:09] of like I love ad so he loves Game
[48:11] Theory and he said that for us the hero
[48:15] of course was always John Nash who was
[48:17] in Princeton here and uh he said just
[48:20] recently I read that couple of years
[48:23] back a few years back that he and his
[48:25] wife John Nash and his wife were killed
[48:27] in a car crash at the New Jersey
[48:28] Turnpike it was such a tragedy for
[48:30] somebody who had gone through so much in
[48:32] life um most of us we know about John
[48:36] NES because of a movie Beautiful
[48:39] Mind so he was this Prodigy who
[48:42] ultimately got the Nobel Prize for
[48:44] economics but his real contribution was
[48:46] to Game Theory and Mathematics the
[48:48] What's called the Nash
[48:50] equilibrium anyway to cut a long story
[48:52] short this professor said I was reminded
[48:55] of the time I had met John Nash my hero
[49:00] you know at Princeton so he and another
[49:02] professor were visiting Princeton
[49:03] University and by that time John Nash
[49:06] had pulled out of the schizophrenia
[49:08] problem quite a bit and he was mostly
[49:11] all right so he used to spend hours and
[49:15] hours Walking On The Lawns on the
[49:16] grounds of the university and this
[49:18] professor said so he's a legend to us
[49:20] but people at Princeton had become used
[49:21] to seeing him because he is always
[49:23] around and we used to watch in awe this
[49:26] who subject we were teaching in class
[49:28] the man himself is out there walk pacing
[49:30] The Lawns so he said one day I invited
[49:33] him for to have lunch with us in the
[49:37] cafeteria in the University so the great
[49:39] man came and he sat with us with
[49:41] Professor Basu and another professor and
[49:45] uh we talked not much and little aside
[49:50] he reveals is another young Indian
[49:52] student was there who was passing by and
[49:55] we called him join us he was none other
[49:58] than abijit banerji who got the Nobel
[49:59] Prize just two years ago he was there
[50:02] that time he came and he said he came
[50:04] and joined us at the at the table and
[50:06] when we informed he didn't even know who
[50:07] John Nash was we informed him who he was
[50:09] it's like an English literature student
[50:12] suddenly was told that the other person
[50:13] third person on the on the table is
[50:15] William
[50:16] Shakespeare he he was stunned he said
[50:19] look but then he says J Nash talked
[50:23] about or wrote actually and me about his
[50:26] illness
[50:28] he said he did not look upon the
[50:31] treatment as an unmixed blessing he said
[50:34] it's coming out of the schizophrenic um
[50:39] delusion this is according to John Nash
[50:41] this not something you see in the movie
[50:43] he says it's not like recovering from a
[50:45] physical illness if you recover from a
[50:47] physical illness it's great it's an
[50:48] unmixed blessing you feel much better
[50:51] but he said when you recover from that
[50:54] it's like the spark has gone out of life
[50:58] which is why for some time he refused to
[51:00] take medicines because he prevented him
[51:02] from doing mathematics also the Mind
[51:05] loves its Madness but one difference I
[51:08] can tell you if we are enlightened you
[51:10] will not feel the spark has gone out of
[51:12] life for the first time you will free
[51:14] what does it feel like it's not like
[51:16] coming out of schizophrenia it's rather
[51:18] coming out of shankaracharya says like a
[51:21] out of a physical illness you feel for
[51:24] the first time endless well-being
[51:28] vianda had this discussion
[51:30] with um the great agnostic Robert
[51:34] ingersol Robert ingersol said to vianda
[51:38] I don't believe in your this religion
[51:39] spirituality I believe in squeezing the
[51:41] orange of Life know to the last drop
[51:43] viand said I believe that too only in my
[51:45] choice of fruit do I differ for me it's
[51:48] a mango but then he says imagine if you
[51:51] can that you do not die imagine the
[51:54] freedom you
[51:56] have imagine that the universe is one
[51:58] with you exactly what we're talking
[51:59] about universe is one with you the joy
[52:02] of knowing that everybody is one with
[52:04] God whatever you experience him he says
[52:07] live life in this way and squeeze the
[52:10] orange of your life squeeze the fruit of
[52:12] your you know and get every last drop
[52:15] get 10,000 fold
[52:18] more
[52:20] so then he
[52:23] says
[52:25] D performing um Dharma and adarma moral
[52:29] actions immoral action then what happens
[52:32] you generate Karma do moral actions you
[52:35] generate Good Karma what is called pun
[52:39] and do immoral actions generate Bad
[52:41] Karma what is called Papa and the result
[52:44] of this pun and papa Good Karma and Bad
[52:46] Karma is sukka and dukka Pleasure and
[52:50] Pain how do you know this is true look
[52:53] at our lives Pleasure and
[52:55] Pain what you know people think what was
[52:58] I in my past life if it's at all true
[53:00] what was I in past life don't bother
[53:01] just look at your present life it gives
[53:03] you a clue to what you were in your past
[53:07] life somebody joked this whole problem
[53:10] with past lives is everybody um you know
[53:12] says that they they were Cleopatra or
[53:14] you know Julius Caesar or something in
[53:16] the past life no we were whatever has
[53:19] generated this life right now
[53:23] so then what
[53:25] happens born and they die and then
[53:28] they're born again and then and they die
[53:30] again this is called this chakra the
[53:32] cycle of samsara this is due to
[53:35] ignorance Aidan the ignorant one this is
[53:40] all because of ignorance and if we know
[53:42] what we Tru then what
[53:46] [Music]
[53:55] happens those who know the truth that I
[53:58] am not the body not the mind I'm this
[53:59] Limitless Consciousness so I'm not born
[54:02] or dying with the body of the mind with
[54:04] the with the body mind I'm not dying
[54:07] with being born or dying with the body
[54:09] and I'm not transmigrating from life to
[54:11] life with the mind then what
[54:16] happens the strong likes and dislikes
[54:19] this clinging in VI's words much better
[54:22] this indecent clinging to life goes away
[54:27] are we going to commit suicide no
[54:28] suicide is also indecent clinging to
[54:31] life you become quite free of this
[54:35] struggle to continue to exist in this
[54:37] way and then this life will become
[54:40] Pleasant this life will become full of
[54:43] peace unshakable peace as long as it
[54:47] lasts you will there's a description of
[54:49] the enlightened one with a slight not a
[54:52] big laugh slight smile on your lips
[54:54] you'll go about the business of life
[54:58] um
[54:58] and
[55:00] M so you will not engage in Good and Bad
[55:05] Karma as an agent of karma because
[55:07] you're no longer an agent of karma you
[55:08] are witness Consciousness you're not a
[55:10] actor in the movie anymore even while
[55:13] acting that untethered Soul Michael
[55:15] singer that example now suddenly you
[55:18] know yes here is the world it's an
[55:20] appearance in me the Consciousness here
[55:22] is a body here are even thoughts good
[55:25] and bad thoughts they are all appearing
[55:26] is in me the Consciousness none of them
[55:28] are
[55:29] me then you do not generate new Karma
[55:32] and once this body particular episode is
[55:35] over no new episode no new further
[55:37] seasons in TV series of I me mine that's
[55:41] the name of the TV series we are acting
[55:42] out
[55:44] now you're the hero and the villain of
[55:47] your own TV series you get your what is
[55:50] it Emmy Emmy Award and then you you're
[55:53] free
[56:01] nobody can logically deny this he says
[56:05] what he's saying here is interesting
[56:07] he's saying that we that remember his
[56:12] opponents are other
[56:14] philosophies there are philosophies like
[56:16] the Naya philosophy vesik philosophy sya
[56:19] philosophy which we talked about just
[56:21] now the yoga philosophy then there is
[56:24] the purva mimamsa philosophy um other
[56:27] dualistic schools of vant the J
[56:29] philosophy the various schools of
[56:33] Buddhism except the materialist Char
[56:35] Walkers all of them more or less agree
[56:38] to this Shankar says he's playing an
[56:41] interesting game here in order to defeat
[56:43] the opponent he's not arguing his own
[56:46] case first he's pointing out what you
[56:48] all agree what you all agree you all
[56:51] agree that we are going through
[56:53] samsara uh and you all agree it's
[56:56] because of of ignorance although as the
[56:58] Swami pointed out to me the nature of
[57:00] ignorance is different in each
[57:01] philosophy so you all agree it's due to
[57:03] ignorance and you all agree when you
[57:05] become enlightened you become free of
[57:07] samsara nobody can reject this because
[57:09] none of you that means the other other
[57:11] opponents who have gathered around to
[57:13] attack him you all believe this okay
[57:16] so then he says if you
[57:19] do if that's what you believe now he's
[57:22] going to what do you call lower the
[57:23] hammer on them
[57:35] in that case what Krishna said I isar
[57:38] God am this Samari and because of the
[57:43] upadhi I'll explain that because of the
[57:45] body mind and all of these generated by
[57:49] Maya
[57:52] Sam as if you're a Samari that's what's
[57:55] happening as if you are a Samari as see
[57:59] even in Michael singer's example when
[58:01] you enter into the world where there are
[58:03] there's a world and you you have see
[58:04] your own body you even have thoughts
[58:06] injected into you even then you are not
[58:08] in that world you're the one watching
[58:09] that super movie that extraordinary
[58:13] movie you're not in there
[58:16] actually exactly like that you are pure
[58:18] Consciousness you are Brahman
[58:22] Sam as if you are a samsar you are as if
[58:26] in the Matrix movie world like a
[58:28] somebody when the Matrix movie was
[58:30] released somebody told me you should see
[58:31] it it's a vedantic
[58:33] movie so he says as
[58:36] if
[58:38] um and that as if is due to
[58:43] ignorance if you're fully aware of
[58:45] what's going on you can play your part
[58:46] in that movie without any problem also
[58:49] you can still go back into the movie
[58:50] knowing that it's a movie it's not a
[58:52] problem
[58:53] anymore not knowing it's a movie you
[58:56] become a Samari the movie becomes your
[58:59] samsara especially if even the thoughts
[59:01] are injected by the director terrible
[59:05] then how horrible it will be but it
[59:09] won't be horrible if you're aware it's
[59:10] being done by the director then it's can
[59:12] be very scary but it would still be an
[59:15] aesthetic
[59:17] experience you see why the doctrine of
[59:20] the falsity of the world the nature of
[59:21] the world appearance this Doctrine is so
[59:23] important to
[59:25] nity okay
[59:28] and then he adds something very
[59:32] cleverly just as he says you are a
[59:36] Samari as if just
[59:39] as all sentient beings believe that they
[59:43] the Atma that I am the
[59:45] body why did he add that because that's
[59:48] what all of those philosophies also say
[59:50] see what he's doing here is he's very
[59:53] skillful kind of philosophical you know
[59:55] jujitsu he is
[59:57] doing so what he's doing is he's using
[1:00:00] the beliefs of those attackers against
[1:00:04] them you all believe that all of those
[1:00:08] philosophies whether Buddhists or Hindus
[1:00:10] whoever they believe in multiple
[1:00:12] lifetimes in karma people going from
[1:00:14] Lifetime to Lifetime and samsara and
[1:00:16] eventual Liberation Moka n from samsara
[1:00:19] even that it's all due to ignorance and
[1:00:21] even that release will be due to
[1:00:23] knowledge all of that they believe he's
[1:00:24] using it against them he say
[1:00:27] just as you guys think by mistake see
[1:00:30] everybody thinks we are the body and
[1:00:32] that they think according due to
[1:00:34] ignorance because they are not the body
[1:00:35] you all agree right because you all
[1:00:37] agree that all beings are in samsara
[1:00:40] they're going from birth to birth to
[1:00:42] birth if all beings are going from birth
[1:00:44] to death and then again birth and
[1:00:46] another death in that case they're not
[1:00:47] the
[1:00:49] body do you see the
[1:00:51] logic you cannot be the body whichever
[1:00:54] philosophy you follow if you are one of
[1:00:56] those guys who say that there is a subar
[1:00:59] of many lives and many deaths one thing
[1:01:01] you're implying is the person cannot be
[1:01:03] the body in that case the body is dead
[1:01:05] in each life the body dies is gone then
[1:01:07] you're gone you you cannot go to another
[1:01:09] life anymore only the materialist claims
[1:01:11] that you're only the body and nothing
[1:01:13] more than the body but the any religion
[1:01:16] any religion believes that you must be
[1:01:18] something more than the body every
[1:01:20] religion believes that without exception
[1:01:23] you cannot be a material entity only
[1:01:27] and be religious you can't be so he's
[1:01:30] saying you guys are all you have your
[1:01:32] own religions your philosophies all of
[1:01:34] you believe that we there are many lives
[1:01:37] right in that case and yet all beings
[1:01:40] think that they are the body but in that
[1:01:42] case you you also you want you hold that
[1:01:45] they're all beings are
[1:01:47] wrong you have to say yeah beings are
[1:01:49] wrong they are not the body but clearly
[1:01:51] they think they are the body why do they
[1:01:53] think they are the body because of
[1:01:55] ignorance because of ignorance they
[1:01:57] superimpose the body upon themselves so
[1:02:00] the fact of
[1:02:02] superimposition ignorance its effects
[1:02:05] these things is making them accept
[1:02:07] through their own philosophies now he
[1:02:09] just add a little more to it and bring
[1:02:10] them
[1:02:12] to um and he
[1:02:21] says in all sentient beings it is well
[1:02:24] known well known to all of you you all
[1:02:27] masters of different philosophies you
[1:02:28] all agree they all sentient beings under
[1:02:32] ignorance they think that the not self
[1:02:35] the body is the self they think that
[1:02:38] people feel that all sentient beings
[1:02:40] feel that animals feel that human beings
[1:02:41] feel that and according to you this why
[1:02:45] do they feel that it's because of
[1:02:46] ignorance according to you you all you
[1:02:50] all say you are not the body because you
[1:02:53] go from Lifetime to
[1:02:54] Lifetime you're going through samsar
[1:02:57] therefore you can't be the body body is
[1:02:58] dead so many bodies have come and go so
[1:03:00] you could not be the
[1:03:01] body you all feel so why do the people
[1:03:04] feel that they the body it must be only
[1:03:06] ignorance so ignorance is causing this
[1:03:09] according to you
[1:03:10] all you can see them being apprehensive
[1:03:13] yes what where are you going with this
[1:03:15] you'll see then he gives an
[1:03:18] example just as is an old example in a
[1:03:21] there's a tree stump in the
[1:03:23] distance and it looks like a human being
[1:03:26] from a distance
[1:03:29] and person coming says oh it's a thief
[1:03:32] the policeman says it's a thief It's The
[1:03:34] Lover thinking it's his beloved so
[1:03:36] people think different things but they
[1:03:38] all think it's a human being so imagine
[1:03:40] a dried tree stump with two branches
[1:03:43] which look like arms in the
[1:03:45] distance so he says that's called stanu
[1:03:48] tanu literally means stationary object a
[1:03:50] tree stump in this case so the example
[1:03:52] is
[1:03:53] this just as in a tree some people think
[1:03:57] it's a human
[1:04:03] being that does not mean that the
[1:04:05] properties of a tree stump will become
[1:04:08] the properties of a human being nor will
[1:04:10] the properties of a human being become
[1:04:12] the properties of the tree
[1:04:15] stump people are sure it's a human being
[1:04:17] but that does not mean a human being's
[1:04:19] property like talking walking around Tre
[1:04:22] stum does not talk or walk around it
[1:04:25] will never become the property of a tree
[1:04:26] stum nor will the property of a tree
[1:04:29] stum become the property of human being
[1:04:30] what's the property of a tree stum it's
[1:04:32] stationary the very word stanu means
[1:04:34] stationary and it's made of wood it's a
[1:04:37] dead tree tree trunk those are not
[1:04:39] properties of a human being so their
[1:04:41] characteristics will never be the same
[1:04:43] even though we have mistaken one for the
[1:04:46] other all right this an example what are
[1:04:50] you trying to prove it
[1:04:52] says just like that
[1:05:00] exactly in the same way Consciousness
[1:05:02] and
[1:05:03] body the um the characteristics of
[1:05:08] Consciousness cannot be those of the
[1:05:11] body just as the characteristics of the
[1:05:14] human being are not characteristics of
[1:05:16] the tree stump like the tree stump think
[1:05:18] of the body like the human being think
[1:05:20] of yourself as Consciousness the
[1:05:22] characteristics of Consciousness are not
[1:05:24] the characteristic of the body
[1:05:27] see in this phrase two words whole hard
[1:05:31] problem of Consciousness is
[1:05:35] here those of you have been listening to
[1:05:37] me think oh no he's going to start with
[1:05:39] that again
[1:05:41] no but that Consciousness cannot be
[1:05:45] reduced to the body that's the whole
[1:05:46] issue right now right now the Hot Topic
[1:05:49] hard problem of Consciousness all the
[1:05:51] time here he says Consciousness cannot
[1:05:54] be a characteristic a property of the
[1:05:56] body or a product of the body a brain
[1:05:58] nervous system it cannot be this is the
[1:06:00] position which materialist will try to
[1:06:03] refute here if Shankar is saying this
[1:06:06] today um David Chas will say yes Daniel
[1:06:10] dnet will say no vly this is the debate
[1:06:13] right
[1:06:14] now who is
[1:06:16] there Susan Blackmore Sue
[1:06:20] Blackmore is reductionist petricia
[1:06:23] church land reductionist so they will
[1:06:25] say no like Bernardo castrop or Donald
[1:06:28] Hoffman or David David Chas they will
[1:06:31] say yes he's right it is not a product
[1:06:34] of the body it's not a property of the
[1:06:36] body and the opposite he
[1:06:41] says the properties of the body the
[1:06:43] characteristics of the body are not the
[1:06:45] characteristics of
[1:06:46] Consciousness Consciousness is not born
[1:06:48] Consciousness does not die Consciousness
[1:06:50] does not get old Consciousness is not
[1:06:53] male or female Consciousness is not
[1:06:55] white or black or yellow or brown
[1:06:57] Consciousness is not young or old sick
[1:07:01] or dead no they are all characteristics
[1:07:04] of the body body body
[1:07:07] body now he introduces something
[1:07:18] interesting he says
[1:07:20] here not only the characteristics of the
[1:07:23] body are not characteristics of
[1:07:24] Consciousness because consciousness and
[1:07:26] body are
[1:07:28] distinct the characteristics of the Mind
[1:07:31] are also not characteristics of
[1:07:34] Consciousness thoughts feelings emotions
[1:07:37] ideas pains Pleasures memories they're
[1:07:40] all there in the mind but they're in the
[1:07:42] mind not in
[1:07:45] Consciousness It Is by just as by
[1:07:47] ignorance we super identify with the
[1:07:49] body similarly by ignorance we identify
[1:07:52] with the mind and say okay that's we
[1:07:55] been hearing this for years but see what
[1:07:58] a terrible problem it creates for the
[1:07:59] all the other
[1:08:01] philosophies all the other philosophies
[1:08:03] almost all of them they accept a couple
[1:08:06] of schools of Buddhism all the others
[1:08:09] they say that the body dies at death it
[1:08:13] is the mind you are the you and the mind
[1:08:16] you are one reality and it goes on to
[1:08:18] other lives so you identify what goes on
[1:08:21] to other lives mind you identify with
[1:08:25] the mind and so therefore you become a
[1:08:28] Samari going from Lifetime to Lifetime
[1:08:30] if you don't identify with the mind
[1:08:32] you're not a Samari right
[1:08:34] now these other philosophies Naya for
[1:08:37] example it says the characteristics of
[1:08:39] the Mind belong to the
[1:08:42] self they don't make a clear distinction
[1:08:44] between mind and pure Consciousness and
[1:08:47] therefore they believe the sentient
[1:08:49] being goes from Lifetime to Lifetime
[1:08:51] this body is death you go to another
[1:08:53] body that body dies you go to another
[1:08:55] body you go go to heaven you go to hell
[1:08:57] you reborn again all of this and finally
[1:09:00] you will do some kind of spiritual
[1:09:01] practice in your final birth and attain
[1:09:03] freedom this is the story which is told
[1:09:06] maybe you'll go to heaven and live with
[1:09:08] God eternally this is the story which is
[1:09:10] told in all dualistic religions and here
[1:09:13] he he attacks that sharply he
[1:09:18] says just like the body is identified
[1:09:21] with the self out of ignorance the
[1:09:24] subtle body mind too is identified with
[1:09:26] the self out of ignorance just as height
[1:09:29] and race and age disease cannot be
[1:09:32] characteristics of the self the
[1:09:34] characteristics of the body similarly
[1:09:37] pleasure pain memory personality cannot
[1:09:39] be characteristics of yourself your real
[1:09:42] self they are characteristics of the
[1:09:44] Mind Body dies mind goes on to other
[1:09:48] lives I agree with you there but you are
[1:09:50] not the mind so you don't go onto other
[1:09:52] lives you apparently do virtual reality
[1:09:56] as if you are a Samari you're not really
[1:09:58] a
[1:09:59] Samari once you make this distinction
[1:10:02] that you are Brahman it becomes clear to
[1:10:05] you you know when you make the
[1:10:07] distinction with not only with the body
[1:10:09] if you make distinction with the body
[1:10:10] all these every religion becomes
[1:10:11] applicable to you but if you make a
[1:10:13] distinction with the mind then um ad
[1:10:18] becomes straightforward
[1:10:22] Direct in that case you are not born you
[1:10:26] do not take another birth you do not go
[1:10:27] from Lifetime to Lifetime mind goes but
[1:10:29] you don't you are the witness of that
[1:10:31] also not only that you don't attain to
[1:10:34] freedom because that witness
[1:10:36] Consciousness is already
[1:10:39] free you are not in bondage because the
[1:10:41] winess Consciousness is not going from
[1:10:43] Lifetime to Lifetime it's not a Samari
[1:10:46] actually you're already free what will
[1:10:49] get Freedom there you're already free
[1:10:50] nothing can be done to
[1:10:54] that what why this is an important point
[1:10:57] is this it's because all the other
[1:11:00] philosophies do not sufficiently
[1:11:02] distinguish self from
[1:11:04] mind they will say yes we are not the
[1:11:07] body the body dies but the immortal Soul
[1:11:10] this person goes on to Heaven hell other
[1:11:14] bodies Shankar is saying here why are
[1:11:17] you making this distinction between mind
[1:11:19] and body both mind and body are
[1:11:22] objects the moment you catch hold of the
[1:11:24] Mind you'll be dragged from from
[1:11:25] Lifetime to Lifetime you'll be a Samari
[1:11:27] requiring
[1:11:31] freedom and these people will say no no
[1:11:34] no no we are not the body but we
[1:11:36] certainly we are the mind the mind is
[1:11:38] integral part of the self Shankar
[1:11:45] says now he has put them in a corner
[1:11:51] Checkmate he says because this
[1:11:54] identification with the mind is is
[1:11:56] equally a product of ignorance as you
[1:11:58] have all agreed your identification with
[1:11:59] the body
[1:12:00] is why aish there's no
[1:12:03] distinction the that which is an object
[1:12:07] the body people are identified all
[1:12:09] beings in ignorance are identified with
[1:12:11] it think we are the body we are going to
[1:12:13] die and all of us here all spiritual
[1:12:15] Masters agree this is ignorance now I am
[1:12:17] saying the same thing is the case with
[1:12:19] identification with the
[1:12:21] mind there's no distinction that's a
[1:12:23] this is an object the mind is also an
[1:12:25] object object because this is an object
[1:12:27] you are not it because the mind is an
[1:12:30] object you are not
[1:12:32] it and hence you're free right
[1:12:36] now this is the dramatic thing and this
[1:12:39] is what Krishna is trying to say when he
[1:12:40] says to
[1:12:44] Arjun and the one Consciousness in all
[1:12:46] Fields all Fields means includes body
[1:12:49] and
[1:12:50] mind I'll just end with this
[1:12:55] our real problem you know right now and
[1:12:58] with the medicine for which is um adant
[1:13:03] is that we are unwilling to treat the
[1:13:05] mind as different from ourselves it's
[1:13:08] not so difficult to disown not disown
[1:13:11] exactly to treat the body objectively no
[1:13:14] one really here says I am Flesh and
[1:13:17] Bones and hair and pus and blood nobody
[1:13:20] says that they say they are things often
[1:13:22] icky things I can sort of intuitively
[1:13:25] feel I'm different different from them
[1:13:26] but this intuitively feeling I'm
[1:13:28] different from them this is the mind
[1:13:29] speaking it's not so easy to distinguish
[1:13:31] ourselves from the mind it's a very
[1:13:33] subtle
[1:13:35] thing and as long as we hold on to the
[1:13:37] Mind you'll see most most of our
[1:13:39] problems are mind and
[1:13:44] mind all of our problem
[1:13:48] almost especially spiritual Seekers you
[1:13:51] know what's a distinction spiritual and
[1:13:52] in the path of non-duality in most
[1:13:54] spiritual paths
[1:13:56] spiritual worldly people truly worldly
[1:13:58] people are concerned with the
[1:14:00] world why did this happen why did that
[1:14:03] not happen why did that person say like
[1:14:05] that why did that person behave like
[1:14:07] that with me do I deserve
[1:14:10] this it is so awful people are you know
[1:14:13] our demand is everybody should be
[1:14:15] unceasingly maximally nice to me all the
[1:14:18] time we don't say it sounds crazy but we
[1:14:21] are that
[1:14:23] crazy so this is a worldly person
[1:14:25] concerned with the world only what is
[1:14:28] the the difference between this person
[1:14:29] and spiritual Seeker spiritual Seeker
[1:14:31] the world has faded a little to the
[1:14:33] background is more concerned with one's
[1:14:35] reaction to the world you know I
[1:14:37] meditate I am devoted to God I practice
[1:14:40] vant why did I get so upset I'm upset
[1:14:42] about being upset I'm upset about my
[1:14:45] mindfulness my meditation my devotion
[1:14:48] not being
[1:14:50] effective you know uh the complaint I
[1:14:54] try to meditate but my mind is is
[1:14:56] restless common complaint for Spiritual
[1:14:58] Seekers and I say that's good that's a
[1:15:01] sign of great progress not that your
[1:15:03] mind is restless that's not great
[1:15:04] progress the fact that you have stepped
[1:15:06] back from worldliness you're more
[1:15:08] concerned about the mind the state of
[1:15:11] the mind then about the world itself
[1:15:13] great big
[1:15:15] progress H big progress yeah one step
[1:15:19] one step closer inward One Step inward
[1:15:23] big
[1:15:24] progress I give the example of Swami
[1:15:27] abhayanand in mayavati asham you know
[1:15:30] faced with a tiger who walked across the
[1:15:32] tiger walked across his path one um
[1:15:34] afternoon and his his reaction was to
[1:15:37] put his hand in his coat and feel his
[1:15:40] heartbeat has my heartbeat increased
[1:15:44] that was his
[1:15:46] worry the world is an appearance in
[1:15:48] Consciousness and if the world appears
[1:15:49] as a tiger do I take it to be real if I
[1:15:52] take it to be real then I am the body
[1:15:54] and this is a tiger body is going to eat
[1:15:55] me up but if I am a witness
[1:15:58] Consciousness in which this Monk's body
[1:16:00] is appearing and the Tiger's body is
[1:16:01] appearing even if the tiger eats it up
[1:16:03] should be all right good for the
[1:16:07] Tiger but I should not be alarmed that
[1:16:10] was his worry so see how his concern is
[1:16:13] not with the tiger not even with his
[1:16:14] imminent death but with the heartbeat
[1:16:18] has his has he become afraid even
[1:16:21] unconsciously this just difficult but
[1:16:24] and he and there anecdote goes he
[1:16:27] discovered heartbeat was normal he felt
[1:16:29] oh
[1:16:29] good you can imagine the tiger rolling
[1:16:32] his eyes
[1:16:33] and and tiger thinking another
[1:16:39] non-dualist that's
[1:16:42] it om shant
[1:16:46] shant
[1:16:53] shant Krishna
[1:16:56] [Music]
[1:16:58] yes the just hold on for a minute a
[1:17:00] couple of comments
[1:17:04] that Shankar adds J just like old age
[1:17:08] and death and that's a the final
[1:17:12] clinching move you just to see it as
[1:17:14] like a you know like a chest move he
[1:17:16] says you are not the mind you have
[1:17:19] identified with the mind just as we have
[1:17:21] identified with the body exactly as you
[1:17:24] have all agreed that birth and old age
[1:17:27] and death are of the body and all
[1:17:29] sentient beings say I'm getting old I'm
[1:17:31] getting I'm going to die because of
[1:17:33] ignorance you agree because of ignorance
[1:17:36] they think that they're getting old and
[1:17:37] if they were knowledgeable they would
[1:17:39] say body is getting old body is going to
[1:17:41] die but I'm all right all of you agree
[1:17:43] all the other you can imagine the other
[1:17:44] Master sitting there he says you have
[1:17:46] agreed to this now I'm showing aishha
[1:17:48] there is no distinction between what you
[1:17:50] have agreed to and my further assertion
[1:17:52] that the mind is also like that
[1:17:55] so our identification with the ups and
[1:17:57] downs of the mind with the complexes and
[1:17:59] guilt and anger and frustration
[1:18:01] negativity of the mind with its projects
[1:18:04] and fancies these are also fallacies
[1:18:07] these are also based on ignorance just
[1:18:09] as identification with the bodies based
[1:18:12] on ignorance you all agree if you said
[1:18:14] no then show me the
[1:18:16] distinction he going to drop a trap but
[1:18:19] they are no they they are professional
[1:18:21] players also so they're going to come up
[1:18:24] with um what they see as a huge weakness
[1:18:27] in his argument that that's for next
[1:18:30] episode yes I'll come to
[1:18:36] youing just ask the question in the
[1:18:41] microphone M I'm jumping ahead a little
[1:18:44] bit um what is the difference between
[1:18:48] field and prti same thing only thing is
[1:18:51] remember field and nature uh here
[1:18:54] Krishna says
[1:18:59] this body oh son of is to be labeled the
[1:19:03] field so it's as if he's saying that is
[1:19:05] body only what about the universe so
[1:19:09] actually what he means is the all of
[1:19:10] nature the whole universe including this
[1:19:12] body is the field however our
[1:19:14] identification is with the body not with
[1:19:16] the rest of the universe so he begins
[1:19:17] with the
[1:19:18] body he did not say universe is the
[1:19:21] field he said body is the
[1:19:23] field you're asking what the difference
[1:19:25] between Priti Andra in principle no
[1:19:28] difference but Krishna starts because
[1:19:30] practically the problem for our problem
[1:19:33] we don't identify with all of nature we
[1:19:35] identify only with this little product
[1:19:36] of nature that's why he starts there he
[1:19:38] calls it the field but why what he means
[1:19:40] by field is
[1:19:45] everything thank you for this very good
[1:19:48] talk we heard shankaracharya through you
[1:19:51] um I'm going back to schloka 2 where
[1:19:55] Krishna says know me to be in all Fields
[1:19:58] yes he doesn't say Arjuna you also in
[1:20:03] all these fields know me to be you he
[1:20:05] doesn't say that he
[1:20:07] said he says know me to be the knower of
[1:20:10] the field in all Fields yes but he
[1:20:12] doesn't identify or tell like you often
[1:20:15] say know this to be you so isn't this
[1:20:19] like what ramanu would say no ramanuja
[1:20:22] would say visha no would say that see in
[1:20:27] all bodies and Minds there is the J
[1:20:29] sentient being you the conscious being
[1:20:30] you are there and then Krishna is
[1:20:32] further back when he is Vishnu or
[1:20:35] narayana who is the knower of you
[1:20:39] also so you are there as the J sentient
[1:20:43] being in that body experiencing that
[1:20:45] body and you are limited to that body
[1:20:47] but beyond you in your heart is narayana
[1:20:50] Vishnu Krishna who knows you also as an
[1:20:53] as an object or as a part of
[1:20:56] himself but here it's not that notice in
[1:20:59] the beginning he said you are the knower
[1:21:01] of the field to Arjun he said you the
[1:21:04] you body is the field and you are the
[1:21:05] knower of the field because anybody who
[1:21:07] knows the field is the knower of the
[1:21:08] field who knows this field you know it
[1:21:10] you the knower of the field second ver
[1:21:12] he said I am the knower of the field in
[1:21:14] all all
[1:21:16] bodies he doesn't set up that's the
[1:21:20] whole dramatic statement he doesn't say
[1:21:23] I am your knower he says you're the noer
[1:21:26] of the field and then he says I am the
[1:21:27] knower of the field in all bodies
[1:21:31] literally I you are that that that
[1:21:35] identity yes can you pass the microphone
[1:21:41] down Swami the it's on the concept of
[1:21:45] Maya in is it specific to ad vanta or is
[1:21:50] it also in Sanka no it's not in Sanka in
[1:21:53] Sanka is prri nature
[1:21:55] it's almost the same concept but in
[1:21:58] Sanka these are independent entities
[1:22:00] interacting Consciousness and prri they
[1:22:03] don't call it Maya they call it prakriti
[1:22:06] and um Priti or pradhana another name
[1:22:09] old name is pradhana um but in ad the
[1:22:13] same concept is taken and called Maya
[1:22:16] but it's it is philosophically very
[1:22:19] different because it's nondifferent from
[1:22:22] Brahman it is the power of Brahman and
[1:22:25] it is not as real as Brahman it's called
[1:22:26] an that's what the thing first thing
[1:22:29] that the Swami told me this morning from
[1:22:32] haridwar inant the nature of ignorance
[1:22:35] is it is due to Maya which is an and is
[1:22:40] in brah or is appearing in Brahman and
[1:22:43] makes the universe appear in Brahman an
[1:22:46] means you cannot say it is you cannot
[1:22:48] say it is not like a movie for example
[1:22:51] Harry Potter is it or is it
[1:22:53] not if course it's not there so many
[1:22:57] film reviews being written and what gram
[1:22:59] not Oscar awards being given there's one
[1:23:01] Harry Potter Museum also here I think so
[1:23:04] definitely it is something but can you
[1:23:06] say it's real like this world no so like
[1:23:09] Fiction it's a category we are familiar
[1:23:11] with fiction lies error dreams that's at
[1:23:16] our level but this our so-called real
[1:23:18] world is also like that compared to the
[1:23:20] reality of
[1:23:22] Brahman yeah so many
[1:23:25] hands all right I we'll go to that lady
[1:23:27] and the gentleman there but we'll stop
[1:23:28] because we are really out of time
[1:23:31] yes hi Swami G um so it it seems that
[1:23:35] it's easy to dissociate ourselves from
[1:23:38] the body because it doesn't get carried
[1:23:40] over to other lives yes but then
[1:23:44] um since our subtle body or the mind
[1:23:46] gets carried over through lifetimes is
[1:23:48] it right to say that it's sort of like
[1:23:51] our individuality that we have to
[1:23:53] overcome to reach the Consciousness is
[1:23:56] that the right way of put and yes and no
[1:23:58] you don't have to overcome the
[1:23:59] individuality to reach the Consciousness
[1:24:02] you don't have to reach the
[1:24:03] Consciousness you are the Consciousness
[1:24:05] you have to take a stand on it in the
[1:24:07] sense when you take a stand in the body
[1:24:09] the world is physical and real to us
[1:24:12] when you take a stand in the mind then
[1:24:13] everything is mind to us and when you
[1:24:15] take a stand in Consciousness as the
[1:24:16] witness Consciousness you'll suddenly
[1:24:18] see everything is an appearance in that
[1:24:19] Consciousness and is nothing other than
[1:24:21] that
[1:24:22] Consciousness yes it's a little more
[1:24:25] difficult because it's constantly with
[1:24:27] us I mean the I from your perspective as
[1:24:31] the conscious being you can even see the
[1:24:35] create a little Gap psychological gap
[1:24:37] between yourself and the body because
[1:24:39] you know in dreams you have a full life
[1:24:41] in the dream without any reference to
[1:24:43] the sleeping body then one can imagine
[1:24:46] how I am not the body I can still exist
[1:24:48] as a conscious being without being the
[1:24:51] body but it's very difficult to see how
[1:24:54] you can be a conscious being without the
[1:24:56] mind also we don't think so because deep
[1:24:59] sleep where the mind is also not present
[1:25:02] but we are there but it we don't seem to
[1:25:04] think so we think deep sleep is nothing
[1:25:06] it's like no consciousness where ad says
[1:25:09] you are fully there in deep Sleep just
[1:25:11] that the body and mind are shut
[1:25:13] down so yes apply these
[1:25:17] uh these reasonings these are called
[1:25:20] procrea methodologies for example object
[1:25:24] if it appears to you it's not you do
[1:25:27] your thoughts appear to you yes do your
[1:25:29] emotions appear to you appear means do
[1:25:31] you experience them yes do memories
[1:25:34] appear to you
[1:25:35] yes if it changes it's not
[1:25:39] you so those thoughts change of
[1:25:42] course understanding memories ideas do
[1:25:44] they change likes and dislikes of course
[1:25:46] in that case they are not you they're
[1:25:48] there but they are not you they don't
[1:25:50] Define you they don't even limit you so
[1:25:54] in this way
[1:25:55] distinguish so it's like so I am the
[1:25:58] Consciousness but then my mind is a
[1:26:00] barrier to no it's not a barrier it it's
[1:26:03] just what it is it's an instrument like
[1:26:04] the physical body is a physical
[1:26:06] instrument the mind is a subtle
[1:26:07] instrument without the mind like without
[1:26:09] the physical body you can't walk you
[1:26:12] can't grasp things you can't interact
[1:26:14] with other physical
[1:26:15] beings without a mind you can't think
[1:26:18] you can't remember you can't understand
[1:26:20] you cannot feel emotions intellect
[1:26:23] understand these are all activities
[1:26:25] which are done with the
[1:26:27] mind but they are not you even if
[1:26:30] suppose you stop thinking for a while
[1:26:32] you're still there you're just not
[1:26:36] thinking we have become compulsive
[1:26:38] thinkers we feel we are the Mind
[1:26:41] therefore if the Mind stops we are not
[1:26:42] there anymore no no we are there very
[1:26:44] much so it's the mind which is scared of
[1:26:48] stopping so the mind is as I say a
[1:26:50] wonderful servant terrible
[1:26:53] master yeah it's an instrument learn to
[1:26:56] regard the mind as an instrument which
[1:26:57] it is
[1:26:59] actually create a this little gap
[1:27:01] between yourself and the mind a great
[1:27:03] Freedom will
[1:27:04] ensue the last person the gentleman
[1:27:07] there will end with that pram Swami uh I
[1:27:12] think you the the previous answer uh
[1:27:15] kind of connects to my question but the
[1:27:17] question is about anything I'm doing is
[1:27:20] tinkering with something right I'm the
[1:27:22] body is sitting here the mind is is
[1:27:24] trying to understand absolutely what
[1:27:26] you're saying uh so still I'm tinkering
[1:27:30] with something that I think you know
[1:27:32] that's like it's mine or so um and also
[1:27:36] a lot of the things you said
[1:27:38] invalidate uh at least I'm thinking like
[1:27:41] this right now chitt Shi is gone U
[1:27:45] transmutation is gone yes transmigration
[1:27:47] yeah no let's say you know if if you
[1:27:50] think about Alchemist like there is no
[1:27:52] going from lead to Gold All That is gone
[1:27:57] so I go home and what do I think K with
[1:27:59] yes that's question notice none of it is
[1:28:03] gone just by knowing a movie to be a
[1:28:06] movie does not mean that you have to
[1:28:07] stop the movie not that you can stop the
[1:28:10] movie notice even after understanding
[1:28:12] all of this or even thinking about it
[1:28:14] you cannot stop any of it it will still
[1:28:16] go
[1:28:18] on what we will be free from is grasping
[1:28:21] a part of the movie and thinking it's
[1:28:22] ourselves and it's my project
[1:28:25] that's an like a ghost in the machine
[1:28:28] that will be
[1:28:29] dispelled that's what both adans and
[1:28:33] Buddhists try to do Professor J Garfield
[1:28:36] who's a professor of madaka Buddhism he
[1:28:38] written a book losing
[1:28:41] yourself Lose Yourself to be really Free
[1:28:44] Yourself means a smallest small
[1:28:47] self tinkering will go on not tinkering
[1:28:51] means action action Will Go On In in
[1:28:54] fact the only philosophy which is not
[1:28:57] afraid of action which Embraces the
[1:29:00] world as it is is
[1:29:02] adant notice in bi in yoga in karma in
[1:29:07] whatever or
[1:29:10] devotion you have to set aside the world
[1:29:12] which you are facing and try to do
[1:29:14] something
[1:29:16] special because this worldly life is not
[1:29:19] spiritual I must have devotion prayer um
[1:29:23] you know worship of God that is
[1:29:26] spiritual that's biti that means you are
[1:29:27] doing something new a new kind of
[1:29:29] tinkering has to be done not the old
[1:29:31] worldly tinkering you're rearranging in
[1:29:34] a new way
[1:29:36] in Raj yoga meditation pangali yoga the
[1:29:40] tinkering is all in the mind I must shut
[1:29:42] out this world of tinkering and stop
[1:29:44] stop tinkering stop it that's
[1:29:49] yoga Sanka which we discussed now I must
[1:29:53] see myself as separate from all these
[1:29:54] things
[1:29:55] aning this is prti I am the witness of
[1:29:58] that I am separate it's not me I am not
[1:30:00] it it's very close to but not ad still
[1:30:04] you are trying to do something ad is the
[1:30:06] only one which has no acceptance no
[1:30:09] rejection why because what will you
[1:30:13] accept and reject it's all literally Sim
[1:30:16] same without the slightest iot of
[1:30:18] difference one Brahman
[1:30:21] only in Hindi they say packed tight with
[1:30:24] packed tight with God is everything that
[1:30:26] we see viand said the only thing that we
[1:30:28] have ever seen is that Divinity
[1:30:31] alone every tinkering is that
[1:30:34] Divinity we we
[1:30:41] doah so all our activities we do it
[1:30:44] before food but it basically it's for
[1:30:46] everything that we do in all action in
[1:30:49] all in your language in all tinkerings
[1:30:51] it's only one existence Consciousness
[1:30:53] place you don't have to set up a new
[1:30:55] kind of tinkering for
[1:30:56] it it's not gone viand says it's not
[1:31:00] gone for the first time we have
[1:31:01] understood it for what it
[1:31:03] is if that's too difficult then you have
[1:31:06] to set up a special kind of tinkering
[1:31:08] called
[1:31:09] spirituality it's meditation or devotion
[1:31:11] or something which is different from all
[1:31:14] of
[1:31:15] that that's worldly tinkering this is
[1:31:17] Holy
[1:31:20] tinkering really this an important
[1:31:22] Insight when we are fools
[1:31:26] immature we try to change the world like
[1:31:28] little children and rearrange the world
[1:31:30] to suit
[1:31:31] ourselves we go a little more mature we
[1:31:34] try to change people realize people are
[1:31:36] important to us adults spent most of
[1:31:38] their life trying to change other
[1:31:42] people terrible terrible you're inviting
[1:31:44] terrible suffering for yourself and you
[1:31:47] creating suffering for
[1:31:49] others try to Tinker with people try to
[1:31:52] change people according to our idea of
[1:31:54] what it should should be then we fail at
[1:31:56] that become a little more mature then we
[1:31:58] try to Tinker with our own lives oh all
[1:32:01] that is useless I must wake up early in
[1:32:03] the morning do yoga and meditate then I
[1:32:05] must read the Gita I must do that is the
[1:32:07] way to happiness I set up a strict
[1:32:10] spiritual routine for
[1:32:12] myself then I fail there also either I
[1:32:16] succeed and I don't get that peace or I
[1:32:18] don't succeed and then I don't get that
[1:32:21] peace then I understand it's in the mind
[1:32:24] then I try to Tinker with the
[1:32:26] mind it's actually not in the world it's
[1:32:28] not in people it's not in my daily
[1:32:31] routine also in not even in my life it
[1:32:34] is my mind which is creating the problem
[1:32:36] another
[1:32:38] foolishness I try to know this Unholy
[1:32:41] thoughts I will replace with holy
[1:32:43] thoughts too much thinking I'll shut
[1:32:45] down morning and evening in meditation
[1:32:46] I'm trying to Tinker with the mind this
[1:32:49] I am the this body mind Shankar has told
[1:32:51] me I'm witness Consciousness I'm Brahman
[1:32:52] I'm Brahman that one I will put in the
[1:32:54] mind now forther tinkering what will
[1:32:57] happen again foolishness suffering only
[1:33:00] spiritual suffering then I've been
[1:33:02] tinkering with the mind so long nothing
[1:33:04] is happening no progress people say I'm
[1:33:06] sorry to say no progress yes you're
[1:33:07] tinkering with the
[1:33:09] Mind finally we come to knowledge and
[1:33:13] ignorance no tinkering to vant shows us
[1:33:17] what really is and we are free from
[1:33:20] it then all the tinkering that will
[1:33:22] remain as long as this body lives is Jan
[1:33:24] MTA is for the benefit of others you you
[1:33:26] have nothing more to gain from it it'll
[1:33:28] go on in its own way you're perfectly
[1:33:30] fine with
[1:33:31] it this is the tinkering
[1:33:35] nity good thank you so much