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Inspiration

Beyond Darwin: How Thought Shapes Gene Expression and Evolution

Marianne Williamson
Marianne Williamson
Sep 1, 2026
10 min de lecture

Source : Marianne Williamson

À regarder · 8

Picture a school drill from childhood: the siren sounds, the class files into a basement that was built a century earlier, and everyone sits with their hands over their heads, certain that this is what will keep them alive. Cell biologist Bruce Lipton tells that story in a 2026 conversation with Marianne Williamson, and he uses it as a key to his larger argument. The conversation, titled "Participatory Evolution," draws on Lipton's book Beyond Darwin: How Epigenetics, Quantum Science, and Cooperation Shape Humanity's Future. Lipton's claim is that genes do not run themselves, that the chemistry released by the mind's vision of love or fear switches them on or off, and that a society living in permanent alarm may be shutting down the systems it needs to adapt. What follows unpacks the ideas as they are laid out in that conversation, from Lipton's critique of Darwin to the bomb shelter analogy and Williamson's reading of the outer and inner chaos we now feel.

Lecture · 7 sections

Did Darwin actually discover evolution?

Lipton's first move is a correction to a familiar story. Evolution, he says, is really two questions: whether it occurs, and what the mechanism is. On the first, he is clear that Darwin was not the originator. "The first scientific theory of evolution was 50 years before Darwin by a French guy," Lipton says, naming Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, who in his account scientifically showed that evolution occurs (roughly 1:21 in the transcript). Williamson, summarizing the book, puts it the same way: Darwin was not wrong that evolution happens, but he had no idea how consciousness might affect it.

The second question is where Lipton parts ways with Darwin, and it is the more interesting one. Lamarck, he says, noticed that organisms fit their environments. Polar bears live in the Arctic, not Africa; roses thrive in temperate zones and not in the far north. Lamarck's conclusion, as Lipton reads it, was that there must be a connection between environment and the genetics that allow adaptation. Darwin's mechanism, by contrast, rests on random mutations: accidents that happen to a lineage, with the luckiest variant surviving. Lipton's objection is that "evolution was a whole bunch of these random accidents, which begs the question, then why are we here?"

He then proposes an ecological image in place of the battlefield. Every organism introduced into a garden, he argues, has a function in maintaining its balance. Humans are the one organism with the power to help sustain that balance, but "without awareness, that power is being used incorrectly." Williamson picks up the metaphor directly, recalling the Joni Mitchell line about getting back to the garden. "We have bought into a battlefield paradigm," she says, "and we need to move back to a garden paradigm." That shift in metaphor, from competition to cooperation, is the spine of the whole conversation.

How does a thought become a gene switch?

This is the section where the book's science is most concentrated, and where the auto-generated transcript is hardest to follow, so it is worth slowing down. Lipton's starting premise is that genes are instructions, not actors. "A blueprint cannot turn itself on or off. It requires an architect," he says (around 5:37). In his model, the architect is the mind, which holds a vision, and the brain's job is to translate that vision into chemistry.

"The mind has a vision. Let's say love. And the brain's job is to convert that vision into complementary chemistry." — Bruce Lipton, in conversation with Marianne Williamson, 2026 (around 5:37)

Lipton's example is falling in love. Dopamine brings pleasure, oxytocin bonds you to a partner, and growth hormone boosts vitality, which is why, he says, people "glow" when they are in love. The chemistry then travels through the blood to the cells, and the crucial step follows: "The chemistry in the blood goes to the cells and the chemistry selects the genes that match the chemistry." In this framing, love chemistry activates healthy genes, while fear chemistry shuts the system down as the body moves into protection.

It is worth being precise about what this talk is and is not. Lipton is presenting a framework, and the portion of the transcript available here describes it as a mechanism the mind uses to talk to the cells. The conversation does not walk through specific experiments or data in the excerpt, so readers who want the evidence will need to turn to Lipton's book. What the excerpt does offer is a clear causal chain (mind, brain, blood, cells, genes) that makes the idea testable in principle, and that clarity is part of why it resonates.

Why can't a body be open and closed at the same time?

Lipton's most practical claim is about a binary he sees in all living things. Growth means moving toward a stimulus with arms open, taking in nutrients and experience. Protection is the opposite: moving away from a stimulus and closing down in response to a perceived threat. The key point, in his words: "You can't be open and closed at the same time." An organism, and especially a human, is in one mode or the other. The more protection we feel we need, the more we shut ourselves down.

"You can't be going to a stimulus and away from it at the same time... So, the more protection that we seem to require, the more we shut ourselves down." — Bruce Lipton, 2026 conversation with Marianne Williamson (around 7:14)

To make this concrete, Lipton tells a story from his own childhood. Schools in his youth ran bomb shelter drills, and children were sent to a basement, or told to get under their desks, because of the threat of Russian bombs. He then runs the scenario forward. Imagine a community functioning normally, with school, jobs, and daily life all intact. A siren sounds, and everyone goes to the shelter. In that era, an all-clear came after about fifteen minutes, and life resumed. The question he poses is what would happen if there were no all-clear. "You will die," he says. You cannot stay in protection indefinitely and expect to live a full life.

The analogy is the emotional core of the talk. In Lipton's reading, a population stuck in a continuous siren, bombarded by threats to money, health, and the environment, is effectively sitting in the basement with no all-clear. The body responds exactly as the shelter logic predicts: it goes into protection and stays there.

What happens when outer chaos becomes an inner shutdown?

Williamson, acting as the interviewer, pauses the flow to check that she has understood the argument, and her restatement clarifies the stakes. There are, she says, two levels of the chaos we are experiencing. The first is external: the human species is using the resources of "1.6 planets when in fact we only have one planet," and the decline that follows is inevitable. The second is internal, a "concomitant, almost like a parallel level of shutdown" that comes from our emotional and psychological reaction to the outer stresses. Lipton confirms that this is the point, and the two levels reinforce each other.

Williamson also widens the frame to politics and power. Early in the conversation she names Peter Thiel and Elon Musk and argues that the "fittest survive" logic of a Darwinian worldview fuels a stance against universal health care and education, on the theory that the strong should be favored at the expense of the many. She describes that as a "dark amoral at best" view. For her, Lipton's critique of Darwin matters because it changes the story those leaders tell about human nature. If the mechanism of evolution is cooperative and environmental rather than purely competitive, then the justification for fencing off survival becomes harder to sustain.

It is worth noting that the conversation is sharper on diagnosis than on policy. The excerpt makes clear that the stakes are collective, but the practical steps out of the shelter are mostly described in terms of awareness, the mind's vision, and the shift from battlefield to garden. Readers who want a concrete program will find more in Lipton's book than in this exchange.

How do beliefs run like programs on autopilot?

The conversation also turns to the subconscious. Lipton describes beliefs as programs that run automatically once installed, and he likens this to a computer that can boot up but cannot do anything on its own without the right software. He says the subconscious is built from habits: "They're habits. You don't" (the transcript breaks off there, and the sentence is not complete in the source). Lipton's argument is that the conscious mind is not the whole picture. Much of what we do, including how we respond to threat, runs in the background, which is why changing the vision that the mind holds matters so much.

Williamson asks how children can live within this kind of programming, and the implication is that the inherited patterns of fear and protection are passed along before anyone chooses them. The excerpt does not resolve how such patterns are reversed, but it frames the task clearly: to move from automatic protection toward deliberate, growth-oriented vision.

What does "participatory evolution" ask of us now?

The title's phrase, participatory evolution, names the idea that we are not simply subject to evolution. If the mind shapes the chemistry and the chemistry selects the genes, then our awareness is part of the mechanism. That is a hopeful claim, and Williamson frames it that way: there is "a lot of hope on the other side" of recognizing the unsustainability of the current model. The conversation moves from diagnosis, the siren that never ends, toward agency, the choice of what vision the mind holds.

For readers, the practical takeaway from this conversation is a sequence of questions rather than a checklist. Which vision is my mind running? Which stimuli am I moving toward with open arms, and which am I bracing against? Is my body in an emergency that has no all-clear? Lipton's garden metaphor suggests that the answers matter not only for individuals but for the balance of the whole system we share.

Where to go from here

If this conversation has you thinking about the Darwin question, the most useful next step is Lipton's book, Beyond Darwin, which the video description identifies as the full source for these ideas. Lipton's own site, BruceLipton.com, is listed in the video description as the place to learn more about him and the book. For the Williamson side of the discussion, her Substack and the other channels linked in the video description carry her ongoing work on related themes.

  • Revisit the Lamarck and Darwin distinction, and ask which mechanism you think best explains the adaptations you see around you.
  • Notice the difference between moving toward a stimulus and bracing against one in your own daily life.
  • Read the book for the experimental evidence the conversation only gestures at, and weigh it against the framework presented here.

Lipton's own closing image is the bomb shelter, and the lesson is an old one put in new terms. A siren is useful for a moment. A body that never receives the all-clear cannot grow. The garden metaphor, for all its softness, asks us to find out which of those two states we are living in, and to choose the one that lets life come back.

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Transcript

[0:00] It's not an accident that people like

[0:02] Peter Thiel and Elon Musk and the

[0:05] authoritarian forces that surround them

[0:08] do relate to that model. The reason they

[0:10] don't want everybody to have health

[0:12] care, they don't want everybody to have

[0:14] good education is because they are

[0:15] trying to make their crowd {quote} the

[0:17] fittest in order to survive. And it's a

[0:20] very dark amoral at best, you and I

[0:23] would agree immoral perception of

[0:25] things. I want to go back a little bit

[0:27] because I think that people are feeling

[0:29] the chaos that you describe. And you

[0:33] also say that it's in the air, people

[0:35] can feel it. I think what's so exciting

[0:38] about your book also, however, first of

[0:40] all,

[0:41] everybody nobody jump off

[0:43] stay with this interview because there's

[0:45] a there's a lot of hope on the other

[0:47] side of this. Yes, we have to

[0:49] acknowledge

[0:51] the the unsustainability of the model

[0:54] that we currently embrace.

[0:56] But we also in doing so will come to

[0:59] realize in your book is full of

[1:01] information about the ways that we

[1:03] change this trajectory. Now, in the book

[1:06] you are a cellular biologist. You come

[1:09] at this from a scientific perspective.

[1:12] Um when you were talking about Darwin a

[1:15] few minutes ago, if I understand the

[1:17] book, Darwin was not wrong to point out

[1:21] that evolution occurs.

[1:23] >> Oh.

[1:24] >> Right?

[1:25] >> Yes.

[1:25] >> Right, it's not like he was all wrong.

[1:27] You're just saying, if I understand

[1:30] correctly or correctly if I'm wrong,

[1:32] that evolution is affected by

[1:34] consciousness in a way that he had no

[1:37] idea. Is that correct?

[1:38] >> That's 100% correct. And let me just

[1:40] say, when you say evolution there's two

[1:43] parts, A B. A, did evolution occur? B,

[1:48] what was the mechanism of that

[1:50] evolution? So first of all, Darwin

[1:53] didn't come up with evolution. The first

[1:55] scientific theory of evolution was 50

[1:58] years before Darwin by a French guy

[2:01] called

[2:04] Oh, my head just went lost. Uh

[2:07] Jean-Baptiste

[2:09] Lamarck.

[2:11] And Lamarck Abe showed scientifically

[2:14] evolution occurs. So, part one dealt

[2:16] with. Part two, and this is important,

[2:20] uh Lamarck saw that organisms fit the

[2:23] environment. Polar bears are in the

[2:26] Arctic, not in Africa.

[2:29] Uh roses grow in the intermediate zone,

[2:32] but they don't grow in the Arctic. Uh

[2:35] and his point was clear.

[2:37] There must be a connection between the

[2:39] environment and the genetics that allow

[2:43] organisms to adapt

[2:45] to the environment. And uh

[2:49] so, he was talking about an interaction

[2:52] environment organism.

[2:54] Darwin's theory was based on random

[2:57] mutations.

[2:59] Random means accidental mutations. So,

[3:01] there was a primitive organism. Its

[3:03] mutation There were mutations all

[3:06] through this. So, its progeny were a bit

[3:09] different. And then they reproduced, and

[3:12] then they had

[3:13] you know, the runt of the litter, so to

[3:16] speak, who was different. And evolution

[3:19] was a whole bunch of these random

[3:21] accidents, which begs the question, then

[3:25] why are we here? And if you look at it

[3:28] from Darwin's point of view, hey, it was

[3:30] a whole bunch of accidents. That's how

[3:32] we got here. And I go, wow,

[3:34] this again was wrong. Every organism in

[3:38] the garden when introduced, and this is

[3:41] the point, every organism introduced

[3:44] into the environment, the garden, the

[3:46] function of it was to maintain balance

[3:50] in the garden.

[3:52] And we're the only organism introduced

[3:55] that has the power to really help

[3:57] maintain the balance, but without

[3:59] awareness, that power is being used

[4:03] incorrectly and and facing us. So,

[4:06] Darwin didn't discover evolution, and

[4:09] his mechanism is not in harmony.

[4:13] >> Okay. So, we have moved beyond Darwin,

[4:16] the title of your book. We're now in the

[4:18] the age of Bruce Lipton. So,

[4:21] tell us

[4:22] tell me a little bit more about how

[4:25] epigenetics works. You know, you

[4:27] reminded me when you said I can I keep

[4:29] hearing in my mind the Joni Mitchell

[4:31] song, "We have to get back to the

[4:32] garden." And it really gives deeper

[4:34] meaning to that because we have bought

[4:36] into a battlefield paradigm, and we need

[4:39] to move back to a garden paradigm. It's

[4:41] very profound, actually. How does a

[4:43] garden how do the different elements of

[4:44] a garden relate to one another? Now,

[4:47] when you talk in the book about how

[4:49] cells operate, can you give information

[4:54] here about the epigenetic

[4:58] influences? Kind of like I'm raising a

[4:59] children, and people talk about nature

[5:01] versus nurture. Where is

[5:04] what Tell us about how that works. How

[5:07] do cells

[5:09] literally change, and genes literally

[5:13] change

[5:15] through the application of changes in

[5:17] consciousness? How does this work

[5:19] scientifically? You talk about quantum

[5:21] physics. Tell us how that works.

[5:22] >> Okay. First of all,

[5:25] cells the genes don't activate

[5:27] themselves. They're blueprints to make

[5:30] parts of the body. So, a blueprint

[5:33] cannot turn itself on or off. It

[5:35] requires an architect. I say, "Well, how

[5:37] does it work?" I say, "The mind has a

[5:40] vision. Let's say love.

[5:43] And the brain's job is to convert that

[5:47] vision into complementary chemistry. So,

[5:50] if you're in love, you're releasing

[5:53] dopamine pleasure, oxytocin bonding with

[5:56] your lover. You're You release

[5:58] >> helium toes. It's like yeah.

[6:02] Yeah, go on.

[6:02] >> And you release growth hormone which

[6:05] enhances your vitality and that's why

[6:07] people

[6:08] glow. They're so healthy when they fall

[6:11] in love because the chemistry coming

[6:13] from the brain goes into the blood and

[6:16] then here's the connection. The

[6:18] chemistry in the blood goes to the cells

[6:21] and the chemistry selects the genes that

[6:25] match the chemistry.

[6:28] So, in other words, love chemistry

[6:29] activates healthy genes. Fear chemistry

[6:34] actually shuts down the system as we try

[6:38] to get into protection. So,

[6:41] the important part about this is growth

[6:44] is go to a stimulus, arms open, take it

[6:47] in. Love, nutrients, arms open, take it

[6:51] in.

[6:52] Protection is the opposite, go away from

[6:56] the stimulus and close yourself down

[7:00] from the threat that you see.

[7:03] Well, the point is this, you can't be

[7:05] going to a stimulus and away from it at

[7:07] the same time. You can't be open and

[7:10] closed at the same time. So,

[7:14] an organism and especially human is

[7:17] either in growth or in protection but

[7:21] cannot be in both at the same time.

[7:23] Doesn't work. So, the more protection

[7:25] that we seem to require, the more we

[7:29] shut ourselves down. A very important

[7:33] part of this is that I was going to tell

[7:36] a story um

[7:38] Millennials are younger, remember? I

[7:39] remember

[7:41] uh, bomb shelter tests when I was a kid

[7:44] uh, and we go into the bomb shelter

[7:46] because we thought some Russians were

[7:47] going to drop a bomb on us. And we sit

[7:50] in the bomb shelter.

[7:51] >> We just We were told to get under our

[7:53] desk.

[7:54] >> Get under the desk.

[7:55] >> Like that was going to fix it.

[7:57] >> Forget that.

[7:58] >> your desk.

[7:59] >> [laughter]

[7:59] >> And

[8:00] the Russians are bombing us. Get under

[8:02] your desk.

[8:04] >> Yeah, I remember that. We had to go into

[8:06] the basement of this building built 100

[8:09] years before and it was like the

[8:11] scariest place in the world and sit

[8:13] there with your hands over your head.

[8:16] Okay. But the point about it is this.

[8:20] Consider a community is working,

[8:22] everything's going on, the school, jobs,

[8:25] everything's great. The siren goes off.

[8:29] And that says go to the bomb shelter. I

[8:31] say, so we all go to the bomb shelter. I

[8:33] say, what about the job? I said, no more

[8:34] job. What What about the the school? No,

[8:37] no, no more school. In the bomb shelter,

[8:40] we're in protection here, okay? I say,

[8:44] and then uh, in those days then we had

[8:46] the all clear and about 15 minutes later

[8:50] we're out of the bomb shelter and life

[8:52] comes back.

[8:54] Here's the issue, think about it. What

[8:56] if you went into the bomb shelter and

[8:58] there was no all clear?

[9:01] I say,

[9:03] you you will die.

[9:05] >> [laughter]

[9:05] >> Bomb shelter. You can't go

[9:07] >> Okay, hold on. I need to stop you for a

[9:08] minute.

[9:09] >> Yeah.

[9:09] >> Bruce,

[9:10] I I I want to make sure we all follow

[9:12] you. So, what I hear you saying, tell me

[9:15] if I'm correct, is that there are two

[9:17] realms of the chaos and the

[9:19] destructiveness that we are experiencing

[9:21] today.

[9:22] >> Yes.

[9:22] >> One is the outside level of things, the

[9:25] fact that we're using the resources of

[9:27] 1.6 planets when in fact we only have

[9:29] one planet and all of the associated and

[9:32] inevitable

[9:34] um,

[9:35] decline that results from this. But now

[9:38] you're saying that there is a

[9:39] concomitant, almost like a parallel

[9:41] level of shutdown, which has to do with

[9:45] our emotional and psychological reaction

[9:48] to all the stresses that the outer chaos

[9:51] uh

[9:52] has produced, and that's what you were

[9:54] speaking to now. Am I correct?

[9:56] >> 100% and recognizing that as the chaos

[10:00] has been building, the healthcare crisis

[10:03] has been building right along with it.

[10:06] So, you can map out

[10:07] >> Because of so much chronic

[10:09] >> with stress.

[10:11] >> And that's because of how much chronic

[10:14] illness is produced and increased not

[10:17] only because of outside factors, which

[10:19] we understand environmentally, etc., but

[10:21] also because of the fear and the

[10:23] helplessness

[10:24] >> Yes.

[10:24] >> that we are experiencing.

[10:26] >> Yes.

[10:27] >> Okay. Right back at you.

[10:28] >> Okay. So, now,

[10:29] uh so, if

[10:31] uh science has recognized, published

[10:33] research, NASA,

[10:35] that is I want to emphasize

[10:38] the science recognizes, they say that

[10:41] within 10 to 20 years, more likely 10,

[10:46] uh civilization is facing an

[10:50] irreversible

[10:51] collapse.

[10:53] It says, "Not sustainable. You can't

[10:56] keep doing this. It has to law.

[10:59] It has to end." Now,

[11:01] civilizations have come and gone before.

[11:03] Many civilizations, the Roman

[11:05] civilization was here and gone. Uh uh

[11:08] actually, uh Great Britain

[11:10] uh was the big civilization, and that

[11:12] collapsed, and the US took over, and

[11:15] that is in the process of collapse. And

[11:18] I guess, "Well, what what's important? A

[11:20] civilization collapses, the people don't

[11:22] die. They change the way they are

[11:25] living, okay?

[11:27] And uh and

[11:28] >> [clears throat]

[11:29] >> the if I could say a very interesting

[11:31] story, uh uh a caterpillar for a

[11:34] butterfly is very voracious. It goes on

[11:37] a plant where it will eat all the leaves

[11:39] off of the plant, okay?

[11:41] When the food is gone, then what happens

[11:44] to the caterpillar? It goes into a

[11:46] cocoon.

[11:47] And I said, "Then what happens?" He

[11:49] said, "Well, a caterpillar is made out

[11:51] of billions of cells. Biologically, a

[11:54] cell is a miniature human and has a

[11:56] whole life thing going. So, I said, "The

[11:59] community of cells making a caterpillar,

[12:01] when the thing was eating, everybody was

[12:04] working, digestive system, muscle

[12:06] system, immune system, everything was

[12:08] working.

[12:10] But when the food ran out,

[12:12] there was

[12:13] no more work. The cells were out of

[12:15] work.

[12:16] And when they were in that cocoon, the

[12:19] former community of cells fall making

[12:21] the caterpillar fall apart, a soup of

[12:24] cells. And then within that soup of

[12:27] cells, there are specialized cells

[12:30] called imaginal cells.

[12:32] Now, the significance that

[12:35] imaginal is like imagination, but it's

[12:37] also

[12:38] an immature insect is called imago. So,

[12:42] these are imaginal cells inside the

[12:45] population. I said, "What about them?"

[12:47] They have a vision.

[12:49] They have a way out. And they say, "Take

[12:52] this disorganized bunch of cells out of

[12:55] work and build something new, a new

[12:59] civilization."

[13:00] They built a a butterfly.

[13:04] I said, "So, why?

[13:06] Caterpillar, most voracious,

[13:08] turns into the butterfly, which hardly

[13:11] even touches the planet, okay?

[13:14] Civilization is in a caterpillar stage.

[13:19] The falling apart

[13:21] is happening. Mary Ann is one of the

[13:23] serious imaginal cells in that offering.

[13:27] There's a better way of surviving on

[13:30] this planet. And with the help of

[13:32] imaginal cells, we can redirect that out

[13:37] of work hopeless population into

[13:40] something that says, "Oh my god,

[13:42] something new, something better,

[13:44] something more beneficial for all of

[13:46] us."

[13:47] And if I have a moment, I want to talk

[13:49] about young people because well, I'm a

[13:51] old guy. So, young people are 40 years

[13:54] old or younger. And they have a a

[13:57] hopeless hopeless feeling about they

[14:00] can't get a job, they have no money, the

[14:02] American dream doesn't exist,

[14:05] and they're out of work. And I try to

[14:08] I want them to know something.

[14:10] They're going to play the most important

[14:13] role in the evolution of this planet. I

[14:16] go, "Why?" They're not connected to the

[14:20] system that is collapsing.

[14:22] >> They're not even 20th century people.

[14:24] >> Yeah. They're They're They're They're

[14:26] >> They're not in the Matrix. Mhm.

[14:28] >> Go ahead, my friend.

[14:30] >> No, that's all. I was just agreeing with

[14:31] you. They're not even 20th century

[14:33] thinkers.

[14:33] >> Yeah.

[14:34] >> So, they can imagine something different

[14:36] more easily.

[14:37] >> Yeah. And the beautiful part is the

[14:39] corporations that are destroying us are

[14:42] failing. They will be failing. And all

[14:45] new technology, all new corporations are

[14:49] evolving at this very minute. And most

[14:52] of them have to do with what?

[14:53] Maintaining the garden. Keeping us in

[14:56] harmony without destroying the garden to

[15:00] keep us. So, the young people not

[15:02] connected to the old system are the ones

[15:06] that are open to a new career, a new

[15:10] job, a new way of supporting a

[15:13] civilization that is evolving with that.

[15:17] And so, I just wanted to give them the

[15:19] fact that yeah, it looks like hell out

[15:21] there, but the reality is it's opening

[15:25] up a future

[15:27] where we can all thrive, not survive,

[15:30] but we can be like the butterfly. We can

[15:34] We can thrive into this planet.

[15:37] >> You know, I've heard this phrase

[15:39] chaotic, the idea that this is a chaotic

[15:41] time, that out of the chaos there will

[15:43] come a new order. And as you said

[15:46] before, well, the civilization of Rome

[15:48] did

[15:49] decline and end, but Rome still exists.

[15:52] And the great empire age of the English

[15:55] British civilization ended, but they're

[15:56] still in England and it's actually

[15:59] in its humility, one could argue

[16:00] actually even

[16:02] displaying something more beautiful to

[16:04] the world. I think what a lot of people

[16:06] feel Bruce, and I think all of us

[16:08] probably do at some point, is yeah, I

[16:10] can embrace the idea that ultimately

[16:13] ultimately things will be okay. The

[16:16] planet might not have to throw off this

[16:18] predator species for 200, 300,000 years.

[16:21] However, I think the fear that people

[16:24] feel is a little more short-term and

[16:25] immediate. Uh as you were saying before,

[16:28] is AI going to take my job? How am I

[16:30] going to feed my children? Where do I

[16:33] go, etc. What How How do you speak to

[16:37] that in terms of the changes in our

[16:39] belief system that give us more than

[16:41] hope for the long term, that give us

[16:43] strength and power as well as hope for

[16:45] the short term?

[16:46] >> Well, this is what's missing.

[16:49] And we go back to the idea of the

[16:50] garden. A garden is the ultimate of

[16:53] community. Every Every organism in that

[16:57] garden is in harmony with each other.

[17:00] We have to not depend on the central

[17:04] government.

[17:05] And the corporations should come and

[17:07] help us. That's not the Today's world,

[17:10] to my mind, is corrupt. Uh I say, "So,

[17:13] what will I do?" I say, "Cultivate a

[17:17] community. Start living with harmony

[17:20] with the people around you. Everybody in

[17:23] community can support each other. Some

[17:26] people will do this job and others will

[17:29] do this job and bartering, uh

[17:32] exchanging,

[17:34] helping, and supporting.

[17:36] Uh this is what will hold people

[17:39] together. It's like a family that is

[17:42] bigger as a community. Uh and if you

[17:45] were in a community where the vision is,

[17:48] "Let's help each other."

[17:50] Then, no matter what the problem is on

[17:53] the outside, the community will survive.

[17:57] And as communities evolve, they'll join

[18:00] other communities. The net result is

[18:04] when all humans recognize we're all part

[18:08] of the same community. Uh right now, uh

[18:12] humans see themselves as separate from

[18:14] each other. That is a programming that

[18:16] happened. Uh the simple reason is this.

[18:19] Each human is a powerful creator. You as

[18:24] an individual are creating your life

[18:27] with your consciousness. Now, if you

[18:30] would have good programming, you're

[18:31] going to have a good life. You have bad

[18:33] programming, you're in trouble at this

[18:35] moment. Uh the fact of a booklet of uh

[18:39] classic book called Rich Dad Poor Dad

[18:43] revealed how programming, when you were

[18:45] a kid,

[18:46] determines the outcome. You grew up in a

[18:49] rich family, you'll tend to stay rich.

[18:52] You grew up in a poor family, and you

[18:54] will sense it's you'll tend to stay

[18:56] poor. I go, "Why?" Okay, and here's the

[18:59] issue. People have no vision of it, but

[19:01] here it is.

[19:02] The brain is a computer.

[19:05] Best most powerful computer humans have

[19:08] ever come across. I go, "So, what?" I

[19:10] said, "But as a computer, it functions

[19:13] just just like our uh laptop." I go,

[19:16] "Why? Is there a connection?" I go,

[19:19] "You can buy a brand new laptop, and if

[19:22] it didn't come with a program, you can

[19:24] boot it up, but you can't do anything.

[19:26] It won't work." So, before you can use a

[19:29] computer, you have to put programs in

[19:33] it, okay? Now,

[19:35] a child is born into a complex

[19:37] situation, a family with dynamic

[19:40] community with dynamics. Each have rules

[19:44] of how to live. I said, "How's an infant

[19:47] going to learn the rules of being in a

[19:50] family or a community?" And the answer

[19:52] is this, the first seven years of a

[19:55] child's life, the brain is not in

[19:58] consciousness,

[20:00] it's in a lower activity, a lower

[20:02] vibration called theta.

[20:05] I said, "What? Theta? Oh, that's

[20:06] imagination."

[20:08] That's how young kids can live in the

[20:11] real world and the imaginary world at

[20:13] the same time. But, theta is hypnosis. I

[20:17] go, "What does that mean?"

[20:20] You observe your parents.

[20:22] Generally, if you're a boy, you observe

[20:25] your father's behavior and download that

[20:28] while in hypnosis. You observe your

[20:30] mother, that is a future context of what

[20:34] a partner would look like, okay?

[20:37] You observe your community, and you

[20:40] learn what you can do and what you can't

[20:43] do. These are programs, okay?

[20:47] Now,

[20:48] unfortunate part,

[20:50] more than 60% of those programs are

[20:53] disempowering or self-sabotaging

[20:55] beliefs. That we engage these programs,

[20:59] it actually takes away our power. It

[21:01] wasn't an intention, they have been

[21:03] programmed. And as a child, when you see

[21:06] them, you are watching their program and

[21:10] downloading that. Uh so, for example,

[21:13] there's no gene that causes cancer.

[21:15] There's not one gene that causes cancer.

[21:18] So, where does cancer come from?

[21:20] Example,

[21:22] they followed the faith of children,

[21:24] infants adopted into families where

[21:27] there's cancer running in that family.

[21:30] The adopted child will get the same

[21:33] family cancer, but it comes from totally

[21:37] different genetics.

[21:39] It's the programming.

[21:41] Cancer is not from genes, it's from

[21:43] living out of harmony.

[21:46] Uh and this is empowering idea because

[21:49] it says

[21:50] it's not killing the cancer cells that

[21:52] prevents cancer. Prevents cancer is

[21:56] learning to live in harmony outside of

[21:59] the stress and the fear, which is the

[22:03] generator

[22:04] of cancer, because environment

[22:06] influences our genetics, okay? So, the

[22:10] whole idea about all this is

[22:13] we're moving into another place.

[22:16] And the programming that you are

[22:18] playing, now listen,

[22:21] all of us,

[22:23] we have been given programs in the

[22:25] subconscious. They're habits. You don't

[22:28] have to think about them. They're good

[22:30] habit. You learn how to walk before

[22:32] you're two. You could be 102, you're

[22:34] still using the same program you got

[22:37] from before you're two.

[22:39] But what if you have a bad habit? I got

[22:41] Here's the problem.

[22:44] 5% of the day,

[22:46] your life is coming from the part of the

[22:49] mind called the conscious mind. That's

[22:52] connected to your spirituality, your

[22:54] source, your identity, and it's the

[22:58] creative mind. If I ask somebody, say,

[23:01] "Tell me what you want."

[23:03] The answer comes from the conscious

[23:05] wishes and desires. That's That's what

[23:07] it represents.

[23:09] But, the conscious mind can think. I go,

[23:11] "So, what?"

[23:13] Well, thinking is not looking out at the

[23:15] world. Thinking is going inside for a

[23:19] thought.

[23:20] So, the moment you are thinking, you are

[23:21] not paying attention to what's going on.

[23:24] Oh, yeah, but if you're in the car and

[23:26] you say, "I'm going to I guess you

[23:28] I'm at the store. I'm going to do this."

[23:31] I go, "The moment you were thinking,

[23:33] you were no longer driving a car." I go,

[23:36] "But, it was going okay." I go, "Here it

[23:39] is, friends. This is it."

[23:41] When you are thinking,

[23:43] the subconscious programs become

[23:46] autopilot.

[23:48] They take over. You taught your

[23:51] subconscious how to drive the car.

[23:54] When you are thinking, the subconscious

[23:56] is autopilot, okay?

[23:58] Now, here's the problem. This is We cut

[24:00] into a point.

[24:02] How much time does the average person

[24:05] think?

[24:06] 95%

[24:08] of the day. I say, "What does that

[24:10] mean?"

[24:12] 95%

[24:13] of the day, your behavior is controlled

[24:17] by the programs you downloaded from

[24:20] other people.

[24:21] It's not you. It's not your wishes and

[24:23] desires. Why? Conscious mind is not even

[24:26] paying attention. This is why I tell

[24:29] people, "Oh, you have a friend. You know

[24:31] your friend's behavior very well.

[24:33] And you happen to know your friend's

[24:35] parent. And what do you know, you see

[24:36] your friend has the same behavior as the

[24:39] parent. So, you offer,

[24:41] "Hey, Bill, you're just like your dad."

[24:44] I said, "Back away from Bill." And you

[24:47] know why? Cuz I know what Bill said or

[24:50] will tell you. He's going to say, "How

[24:53] can you compare me to my dad? I'm

[24:55] nothing like my dad." I go, "Is this

[24:58] interesting?" Everybody else

[25:02] can see Bill's behaviors like his dad.

[25:04] >> Yeah.

[25:05] >> The only one that can't see this Bill,

[25:07] and then I'll have to live with this.

[25:10] We're all Bill.

[25:12] Every day, we're not playing wishes and

[25:15] desires, we're playing programs. And we

[25:18] can't see it. Why?

[25:21] Well, you're not paying attention.

[25:22] You're inside. So, whatever program is

[25:24] coming out, you're the only one that

[25:26] can't see it. And since most of them are

[25:28] negative, imagine life is a struggle.

[25:33] >> Well, that's why a spiritual practice is

[25:35] so important because in that meditative

[25:36] state, uh whether it's the workbook for

[25:39] Course in Miracles or TM or any other

[25:40] serious spiritual practice, you are

[25:43] literally thinking from different brain

[25:44] waves in which the kind of

[25:45] transformation of our subconscious

[25:47] thought forms can uh can occur. I want

[25:50] to go back a little bit to when you

[25:51] talked about the imaginal cells, the

[25:53] imaginal soup turning into the

[25:54] butterfly. The one place where I think

[25:57] the analogy gets a little more

[25:59] complicated is that there is not an

[26:01] active force trying to trip up the

[26:05] butterfly during its birth process. Now,

[26:07] you did say in the book they don't all

[26:09] make it.

[26:10] >> Yeah.

[26:10] >> But I think in our case, even though

[26:12] we're trying to emerge from the imaginal

[26:14] soup to the butterfly, we do have all

[26:16] these forces, corporate, economic,

[26:18] political, et cetera, which are trying

[26:21] to stymie us. Now, and that that does

[26:23] make it a that the more of a challenge.

[26:26] Um you um were talking earlier about

[26:29] how, you know, give up politics, give up

[26:32] uh thinking the corporations are going

[26:34] to change, give up the economic system,

[26:35] and go into community.

[26:37] So, I want to take that on a little bit.

[26:39] >> Yes.

[26:40] >> Um I fear I fear, Bruce, that's a little

[26:42] bit of a of privilege talking, and I'll

[26:44] tell you why. If you look at, let's say,

[26:47] Nazi Germany,

[26:48] and you look at people throughout Europe

[26:50] when Hitler began marching, who went out

[26:52] into the country? The Nazis went out and

[26:55] found them.

[26:56] The Nazis searched them out.

[26:58] So, the idea that our just acting in

[27:01] community

[27:03] sounds great until you remember that

[27:06] there are some forces who won't like

[27:08] that, who will see it see those things

[27:10] as generative, and you'd be the first to

[27:12] be targeted. So, I would suggest,

[27:16] much like when you talked before about

[27:18] corporations changing, I would suggest,

[27:20] because one of the things I've seen in

[27:22] my career, which has been very, you

[27:23] know, you and I have been in the same

[27:24] transformational field. There has been a

[27:27] tendency in the transformational

[27:29] community over the last few decades. You

[27:30] and I have both been part of it. To be

[27:32] very apolitical because of people

[27:35] saying, "Politics is not where it's

[27:38] going to be healed." Well, I think you

[27:40] and I would agree, no, it's not where

[27:41] it's going to ultimately be healed, but

[27:43] it's where we could die before we even

[27:45] have a chance to heal it if we don't

[27:47] recognize that some people, and all of

[27:51] us to some extent in in in the sense of

[27:53] just standing up as good citizens,

[27:56] will see every sector of society as part

[28:00] of the zone. You know, it's like when

[28:02] Gandhi said, "Is not politics a part of

[28:04] dharma, too?" Now, I'm not trying to

[28:06] talk about politics specifically. I'm

[28:08] just saying that I think we have to be

[28:10] open to the revolution of consciousness

[28:12] within every sector and not leave any of

[28:15] them out just saying, "No, we have to

[28:17] just go form our own communities."

[28:19] Wouldn't you agree with that?

[28:20] >> 100%. And the idea is there are

[28:23] extremes. Everything has a polarity to

[28:27] it, okay?

[28:29] And unfortunately, politics wants to

[28:32] take us to one pole or the other pole,

[28:35] but the only valid place is in the

[28:38] center between polarities because both

[28:42] sides have something to offer. And if If

[28:45] only look at one side, then you're

[28:48] missing the point of the other side.

[28:51] This is interesting.

[28:52] >> Okay, but let's talk

[28:54] I I think that the initial founding

[28:56] vision of this country did support the

[28:58] garden theory. Because the reason,

[29:01] according to Jefferson and others, that

[29:03] we needed public education, the reason

[29:06] we needed a free press, and the reason

[29:08] we needed the right peaceful right of

[29:10] assembly, was in order to guarantee that

[29:13] all voices would be heard, and the

[29:15] theory was then the truth would rise to

[29:17] the top, which is garden-like.

[29:20] So, this idea of the polarity, the

[29:23] extreme polarity, which has so messed us

[29:25] up, has to do with the corrupting

[29:27] influence of money, the corrupting

[29:28] influence of political parties, and so

[29:30] forth. So, the initial founding vision

[29:34] was more garden-like than battlefield.

[29:37] >> The original There were scientists,

[29:40] Jefferson and Franklin, as scientists.

[29:44] And

[29:45] And they were guided

[29:49] They were

[29:50] >> Pardon? I'm sorry.

[29:51] >> They were guided by who? The Native

[29:53] Americans. I guess so what?

[29:55] >> That's what I was just saying.

[29:56] >> The Native Americans saw a garden and

[29:59] owned that they were gardeners

[30:03] in the environment. So, that

[30:05] consciousness was instilled

[30:08] in America's founding fathers.

[30:11] I mean, Native American philosophy and

[30:14] politics is built into our own

[30:17] Constitution and our own Declaration of

[30:20] Independence.

[30:22] And we have lost that

[30:24] because

[30:26] too many Europeans came

[30:29] into the New World.

[30:31] Why did people come to the New World? It

[30:34] was called the Age of Enlightenment. I

[30:36] go, "What was that?"

[30:39] A philosophy that came out that of a

[30:41] utopian possibility where people can

[30:44] live in harmony and peace and all that.

[30:47] And I go, "Yeah,

[30:48] uh

[30:49] who is writing this?" Well, one of them

[30:52] of the leaders was a guy called

[30:54] Rousseau.

[30:56] And Rousseau talked about a utopian

[30:59] world. You know what? He was reporting

[31:03] on Native American culture.

[31:06] And when people started connect with

[31:09] that, then they Europeans People don't

[31:12] think all slavery uh

[31:14] without change. I go,

[31:16] "Europe people were slaves. No change.

[31:19] What?" They either work for the baron,

[31:23] the one with the money, or they didn't

[31:25] have a job.

[31:27] Uh and therefore they were always living

[31:30] under the control of the baron at that

[31:33] point. Uh and yet then many of them went

[31:36] to the new world. Why?

[31:39] There was no stopping them. There was no

[31:41] upper class, no lower class, which was

[31:44] built into Europe. So, uh uh

[31:47] unfortunately, if you were born in the

[31:49] upper class, you were always upper

[31:51] class. If you were born in the lower

[31:53] class, you were always lower class. But

[31:56] when they went to the new world, no

[31:59] class.

[32:00] And they lived with the natives. Yes,

[32:02] Mary Ann.

[32:04] >> We have unfortunately regressed, and we

[32:07] have recreated a condition uh the

[32:09] conditions of aristocracy with the

[32:11] corporatocracy and the oligarchy,

[32:13] obviously. But I think also that our

[32:15] founders, of course, considered

[32:16] themselves enlightenment thinkers.

[32:18] That's what they actually called

[32:19] themselves and wanted to be. And they

[32:22] the whole idea of the enlightenment was

[32:24] the power of the individual, which would

[32:26] be freed from the superstition and the

[32:28] dogma of religion and old forces. And I

[32:31] think that that's what you're saying

[32:32] today is that we can free ourselves of

[32:36] the chains that are imposed upon us by

[32:39] old think.

[32:40] Um and there is always that force which

[32:43] draws us back into domination rather

[32:45] than partnership, uh into

[32:48] um

[32:49] uh

[32:50] fear rather than love. And uh am I

[32:53] correct to say

[32:55] um

[32:56] in sort of wrapping this up that you

[33:00] feel

[33:02] that on a genetic level, as well as an

[33:05] emotional and psychological, because

[33:07] that's what I got from your book, that

[33:09] at this point scientific evolution and

[33:11] spiritual evolution are in partnership.

[33:14] Is that correct?

[33:15] >> 100%. And get you know, people say I'm

[33:17] spiritual, but they don't get it. Let me

[33:20] tell you from a scientific point of

[33:22] view, spirit is a scientific truth. I

[33:26] say, "How?"

[33:27] Uh listen, you should see terminology.

[33:29] One of the factors you cannot exchange

[33:32] your organs with some other person. You

[33:34] can't transplant a kidney into somebody.

[33:37] Why? Their immune system will look at

[33:40] the foreign transplant and say, "That's

[33:42] not us."

[33:43] And will eliminate it. So, the immune

[33:46] system can see

[33:48] your identity separate from anybody

[33:52] else. Anybody else puts your organ into

[33:54] your body, the transplant will be

[33:57] perceived as foreign

[33:59] and then destroyed.

[34:01] Well, now here comes the issue. The

[34:02] immune system sees physical things. I

[34:04] go, "Whoa.

[34:06] Viruses, bacteria, parasites. Yeah.

[34:09] What is it seeing when it says, "I am

[34:12] different in identity than the cells of

[34:16] somebody else? I have a different

[34:19] identity."

[34:20] Where is identity? And it's like very

[34:23] quickly, on the surface of our cells,

[34:26] there are protein receptors.

[34:29] We have receptors on our surface, eyes,

[34:32] ears, nose, taste. These are receptors

[34:35] read the environment.

[34:36] There's a set of receptors on our cells

[34:39] with the exception of red blood cells.

[34:42] They have none of these self-receptors.

[34:45] That's what they're called. Red blood

[34:47] cells don't have them. That's why we can

[34:49] transfuse blood as long as you get A

[34:52] blood type. But a kidney, a lung, or any

[34:56] organ has cells with a nucleus and they

[35:00] have these antennas, receptor, receiver.

[35:04] And name of them?

[35:06] Self-receptors.

[35:08] I go, "So what?" They download a signal

[35:12] that nobody in the world other than you

[35:16] can download. No two people in the world

[35:19] have the same set of self-receptors.

[35:23] They're downloading an environmental

[35:25] signal of what? Self.

[35:28] I go, "So what?"

[35:30] I'm not in here.

[35:32] I'm a broadcast. Bruce is a broadcast. I

[35:36] have a set of antennas

[35:38] I have. You don't have mine. I have

[35:40] mine. Mary Ann has hers. You have your

[35:43] own. I say, "So I'm downloading Bruce."

[35:46] To give you an analogy, imagine my body

[35:49] as a television set. And I'm showing you

[35:52] the Bruce show right now. I go, "Yeah."

[35:56] I say, "Where's the broadcast?" I say,

[35:59] "Oh, the broadcast is in the energy

[36:02] field."

[36:03] We are downloading an energy field,

[36:06] which in quantum physics

[36:08] is the same definition of spirit. Energy

[36:11] field, spirit all have the same

[36:13] definition. So quantum physics

[36:15] recognizes each [clears throat] of us is

[36:17] downloading an identity of who we are. I

[36:21] go, "So what?" Well, if you're watching

[36:23] a TV and it breaks, TV is dead. I go,

[36:26] "Yeah."

[36:28] Did the broadcast die? No.

[36:31] Broadcast is always there.

[36:34] And I say, "So what?"

[36:35] >> And that's why physical that's why

[36:37] physical death is just a dropping of a

[36:39] suit of clothes, but consciousness

[36:41] continues. So, is the ultimate point

[36:45] that we can now download the

[36:47] consciousness of we as opposed to just

[36:50] me, a consciousness of a world in which

[36:53] we are living in the garden rather than

[36:55] a battlefield, that we can surrender a

[36:58] consciousness which is obsolete and

[37:00] unsustainable, and it is the causal

[37:03] level of the unsustainability of the

[37:04] world today, and embrace instead a new

[37:08] consciousness in which we are living in

[37:10] the garden, in which we are living in

[37:11] sacred connection with nature, sacred

[37:14] connection with each other and a higher

[37:15] power in order that the world of effect

[37:20] outside us will change automatically and

[37:22] accordingly. Is that the Is that the

[37:24] goal?

[37:24] >> destination. The destination

[37:27] Let me tell you um an infant when it is

[37:29] born is born with a consciousness of

[37:33] love.

[37:34] It's born with that. An uh uh an infant

[37:37] can determine whether an individual is

[37:40] very positive or very negative because

[37:43] they feel the vibration.

[37:45] Harmony is when the energy vibes are

[37:48] resonating in harmony.

[37:50] Negative vibes cancel vibes. So, uh you

[37:54] can feel a good vibes means you're

[37:56] around things that have the same energy

[37:58] as you.

[38:00] Bad vibes are when you feel your energy

[38:03] dissipating because the energy outside

[38:06] of you is canceling. It's called

[38:09] destructive interference.

[38:12] Uh and you can feel good or bad. Well,

[38:15] that is foundation from every organism,

[38:18] and a baby is only born with that. No

[38:21] other thinking, logic, reason. It can

[38:24] tell if an energy is in harmony or

[38:27] energy is out of harmony. It will move

[38:30] toward, of course, the growth. But, do

[38:34] you remember that 7-year program?

[38:36] You can change the the baby who came in

[38:40] was love.

[38:41] And create programs of fear and bad

[38:44] juju. Yes.

[38:46] >> [laughter]

[38:47] >> I have a couple of uh precious

[38:49] granddaughters, one and three.

[38:51] And the 3-year-old, about 2 years ago,

[38:55] I was I can't even remember what it was,

[38:57] but I was a little bit I don't know. I

[38:59] thought her mother I think I wanted her

[39:01] mother to teach her say please and thank

[39:03] you faster or something like that. I

[39:04] can't remember.

[39:06] And

[39:07] as I would have these conversations

[39:10] with her mother, there were times when I

[39:12] felt the baby was giving me a little

[39:14] side eye. Like, I don't know if I

[39:18] totally trust this person.

[39:20] >> [laughter]

[39:20] >> I mean, it was really bizarre. Like, she

[39:22] was picking up. Like, I don't know about

[39:25] this one. And then when I sort of

[39:27] relaxed more into it, I saw that change.

[39:29] But, it was spooky. It was like, this

[39:31] kid is picking up something that's going

[39:33] on in these conversations.

[39:35] Bruce, I can't thank you enough. I'm

[39:38] I've always been your big fan. And um I

[39:40] want to make sure everybody that you

[39:41] know, you know, because he also wrote

[39:44] best-selling uh books The Biology of

[39:46] Belief. That was a very big one.

[39:48] Spontaneous Evolution and The Honeymoon

[39:51] Effect. And now his new book, very big.

[39:54] Rush and buy it. It's a little bit you

[39:56] know, rush by it. But, you know, uh

[39:59] you'd probably get a lot out of this

[40:00] book. I know I did. Beyond Darwin: How

[40:02] Epigenetics, Quantum Science, and

[40:05] Cooperation Shape Humanity's Future in

[40:08] 2026. We are really getting beyond this

[40:11] binary is it scientific or spiritual? Um

[40:15] we realize that the brain and the heart,

[40:17] uh

[40:19] share a connection much deeper than the

[40:21] old matrix

[40:22] allowed us to

[40:24] recognize. And Bruce Lipton is one

[40:26] leaders in sort of putting it all

[40:28] together for us.

[40:30] Bruce, I'm I'm thrilled that uh um

[40:34] your your voice is just it's always been

[40:36] important, but there's a particular a

[40:38] resonance and thank you for everything

[40:41] that's in this book. Is there anything

[40:44] any last comments that you want to make?

[40:45] We'll put all the information about your

[40:47] website and everything.

[40:49] >> Yes, I would like

[40:50] >> Any last comments?

[40:51] >> comments for the end. Number one,

[40:54] I want to appreciate you Marianne as

[40:56] being one of the imaginal cells that can

[40:59] help us move from this old world into a

[41:02] new world. It's very important for me

[41:04] because you can you have a voice that

[41:07] can go out. Number one. Number two,

[41:10] I want to thank the audience because the

[41:14] audience that is here now is open to

[41:18] giving a new idea, giving a new story,

[41:21] help me move from here to another place.

[41:24] The audience represent cultural

[41:26] creatives, people looking for a better

[41:30] way. They are the seeds of the future.

[41:34] So audience

[41:36] >> thank you very much.

[41:37] Just remember this evolution is

[41:40] participatory.

[41:42] Don't wait at home and think it's going

[41:44] to happen one day. We have to live it

[41:47] every day. And

[41:50] listen to Marianne, she's got the story.

[41:54] >> Right back at you Bruce. And everybody,

[41:56] I think the point that Bruce just made

[41:57] is so important. Each and every one of

[42:00] us is has to be the imaginal cell. Each

[42:02] and every life, the Course of Miracles

[42:04] says all of the children of God are

[42:06] special and none of the children of God

[42:07] are special. We all have have our part

[42:10] to play. And I think that we began today

[42:12] with Bruce talking about this kind of

[42:14] victim mentality, this sense of

[42:16] powerlessness, so many ways that we're

[42:18] told we're damaged, we're not good

[42:20] enough, um,

[42:21] that actually is not as humble as it

[42:23] appears. In a way it's arrogant because

[42:25] if you are a divine creation, how can

[42:27] you not have the potential, uh, for

[42:29] perfection, power, strength, goodness,

[42:31] and beauty, and creativity? So, thank

[42:34] you for reminding us. Thank you for

[42:35] informing us, Bruce. And, uh, I agree

[42:38] with you. Uh, people can only speak, uh,

[42:42] as deep as the listening

[42:44] uh, of the audience is. And I think

[42:46] today, particularly because of the

[42:48] chaos, there is a new appreciation

[42:51] because there's a realization that the

[42:53] old way has taken us to where we are.

[42:55] It's like in AA when they say, "Your

[42:56] best thinking got you here." So, I know

[42:59] you feel as I do, "Oh, there's a whole

[43:00] new listening." So,

[43:03] let's go for it, right?

[43:04] >> Thank you.

[43:05] >> God bless you, sir. Thank you so much.

[43:07] Okay, everybody. See you later.

Marianne Williamson
ArtistMarianne Williamson

American spiritual teacher and author whose lectures and books — based on A Course in Miracles — have brought a contemporary devotional voice to millions. Her 1992 book A Return to…

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In the 2026 conversation with Marianne Williamson, Lipton uses participatory evolution to describe the idea that environment and consciousness influence our genes, so that awareness is part of the evolutionary mechanism rather than separate from it. He contrasts this with Darwin's account of random mutations. The concept is developed further in his book Beyond Darwin.
Lipton says the first scientific theory of evolution came about 50 years before Darwin, from Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, who showed that evolution occurs. Lamarck also noticed that organisms fit their environments, such as polar bears in the Arctic, which Lipton says points to a connection between environment and genetics. Lipton uses this to argue that Darwin's random-mutation mechanism is incomplete.
Lipton describes genes as blueprints that need an architect, with the mind holding a vision that the brain translates into chemistry. That chemistry travels through the blood to the cells and selects the genes that match it, so love-based chemistry activates healthy genes while fear-based chemistry shuts the system down. The excerpt presents this as a framework and does not walk through specific experiments.
Lipton argues that fear triggers protection, a mode in which the body closes itself down, and that this shutdown is the opposite of the open growth mode that love supports. He presents this as the core mechanism of his epigenetic model. Readers looking for the underlying evidence will need to consult his book, since the conversation does not cite studies in the portion available.
Lipton recalls childhood bomb shelter drills and then asks what would happen if a community entered the shelter and never received the all-clear. His answer is that people would die, and he uses the image to argue that a body or population stuck in protection cannot grow or function normally. The analogy is meant to show why sustained fear is harmful.
Williamson says humanity has bought into a battlefield paradigm and needs to move back to a garden paradigm, a shift from competition toward cooperation and balance. She draws the image from Lipton's point that every organism in a garden helps maintain its balance, with humans uniquely able to do so if they have awareness. The metaphor frames how we should see our relationship to the planet and to each other.
Lipton says growth means moving toward a stimulus with open arms, while protection means moving away and closing down, and these two states cannot coexist. An organism, especially a human, is in one mode or the other. This is why he argues that the more protection we feel we need, the more we shut ourselves down.

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