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Inspiration

Why We Gather: Festivals as Ceremony and Cultural Bridge

MF
Medicine Festival
Oct 17, 2026
10 min di lettura

Da Medicine Festival

Guarda · 5

Why We Gather is a talk given by Zak Avery and Jenna Ansell, co-directors of the medicine gathering in the UK, now in its sixth year and drawing around 10,000 people each August. Filmed at GOAT Community and posted by Medicine Festival in October 2026, the talk is less a program description than an argument about purpose. Avery and Ansell trace their own paths, one out of international development and the other out of festival production, to a single conviction: that a gathering can do the work that top-down institutions have struggled to do, if it is designed as ceremony rather than entertainment. What follows draws on the opening stretch of that talk, which covers their origins, the logic of the gathering, and the question of who is bringing what to whom.

Lettura · 9 sezioni

What does it sound like when two co-founders take the stage together for the first time?

The talk opens with a small, unpolished exchange that carries more weight than its length suggests. "Um, my name is Jenna," Ansell says, and Avery answers, "I'm Avery." They have been collaborating for seven years, they explain, and this is the first time they have given a talk together. That detail matters. Two people who have built something large for most of a decade are now stopping to say, out loud, what they think it is for.

Their stated agenda is ambitious. They want to talk about "where we are in terms of the more sort of transformational progressive sort of subculture of the festival space," why that matters, and "where we can go from here," because, as Ansell puts it, "it really feels like we're at a big threshold not only within this culture but also in the world in general." The rest of the talk is an attempt to show how they got to that threshold.

How does a diplomat-in-training end up running away with a festival circus?

Ansell's story begins, about 1:24 into the talk, in a very different world. "I started off in quite an academic um, background," she says. She wanted to be a diplomat or work in international relations and development. She saw quickly that the field was full of bureaucracy and hierarchy, and that "the top down approach to changing things in the world was really limited."

The turn came at 25, in the middle of a master's degree in international relations, when she went to a UK festival called Secret Garden Party. Afterward, in her words, she "sort of ran away a little bit with the circus." What she noticed there was not simply party behavior. "The people who were experiencing that space were really changing who they were and tapping into a purpose that maybe they didn't know before," she says, pointing to "the very specific magic and alchemy that's present in those spaces."

She describes a moment of recalibration. She had been considering free internships in London and had nearly gone to the Democratic Republic of Congo for work. Then she reached a different conclusion: "maybe it's not just about hedonism and taking a bunch of drugs. Maybe there's a lot more to this gathering." That reframing is the hinge of her whole account. A festival stops being an escape from purpose and becomes a place where purpose is found.

Why did a teenage party in a seaside hometown point toward the same destination?

Avery's route runs parallel. Gatherings were part of his life from age 15, when he and friends were running parties where he grew up. "It started as a birthday party and evolved into this beautiful" gathering on the cliffs, he recalls. At 16 he felt "this unification of dance, the trance of dance with my friends," a connection he could not yet put into words. He went on to study entertainment management and festival production, then, in his words, followed "my own journey of spiritual awakening, however you want to frame it," which led him to what the talk calls the medicine path.

Both stories share a structure: an early, half-articulated sense that gathering matters, followed by years of testing that sense against institutions, traditions, and the practical craft of putting people in a field together. The festival industry gave them the tools. The wisdom traditions gave them a reason to use those tools differently.

How did eight people from different traditions become a constellation?

The pivot point of the talk comes at roughly 5:29, when Avery describes a pilgrimage across the UK with wisdom carriers. There were "seven or eight different traditions all represented," speaking different languages, and the experience was, he says, "constellating something much greater than any of us could really articulate." It was on that trip that he and Ansell met, and he says it anchored him "particularly into ancient ways of being and wisdom traditions and what we can learn from and through them."

The medicine gathering was born in that same spirit. Eight people were involved at the start, and Avery credits their varied perspectives, breadth of experience, and backgrounds with making the project so rich, and with allowing it to flourish. Ansell adds a lighter note: the early co-founding group felt like "Avengers Assemble a little bit," followed by laughter in the room.

Ansell also points to earlier work. A project called Reigniting the Ancient Ways brought elders from different wisdom traditions to Boom Festival and Glastonbury. She has spent about ten years working at Lightning in a Bottle in California, "bringing in this culture there as well." In her account, the gathering is not a single invention so much as the convergence of many threads.

What is medicine, if the why comes before the what and the how?

The talk's most important conceptual move arrives at about 6:51, when Avery says: "medicine has always been about the why before the what and the how." The why, he explains, is threefold and open-ended: how to be medicine for the planet, how to be medicine for ourselves, and how to recontextualize what medicine means in the contemporary world. Underneath those lies a further aim, to bridge cultures and to return, in some measure, to older ways of being.

The "medicine" in the title, then, is not primarily a reference to substances. It names an access point. Avery describes the gathering as "a bridge really an access point to heal some of the wounds." The wisdom carriers who come bring what he lists as their "philosophy, their ceremony, their music, the soft technologies that have guided them for generations," and he stresses that these practices are "fundamentally rooted in their connection to the earth," in a relationship that does not treat the planet as separate from people to be extracted from.

Read this way, the idea that a gathering is a form of ceremony is not a metaphor. It is a design principle. The question at the center is how a large group of people can be asked, together, to inquire into how they might act as medicine for themselves and for the living world.

Why would a festival refuse to call itself a festival?

One of the most useful lines in the talk is a confession of sorts. "We always hate calling ourselves a festival," the co-directors say. The reason is practical as much as philosophical. The medicine gathering uses "the operational format, systems, processes, sound systems, team structure that we know so well through working in the festival industry all our life." Those are the tools of a festival. The aim is different: to facilitate "a collective prayer, a ceremony, a question actually, kind of a deep inquiry."

There is a craft lesson here for anyone who makes gatherings. The scaffolding (stages, power, staffing, logistics) still has to be excellent, because a ceremony that fails on the practical level is hard for people to enter. But the scaffolding serves the intention. The label "festival" describes the logistics; the purpose is something older and more serious.

What changes when the wisdom comes to you instead of the other way around?

Avery is candid about history. Britain, he says, "is responsible for colonizing so much of the world" and for "causing so much destruction and pain and suffering." He draws out what that means for the gathering: "rather than us going out to their lands, all these wisdom carriers are coming to the UK." They step, he says, "beyond all of that trauma, that ancestral grief to come and share with the intent of healing, growing and connecting."

That reversal is the political heart of the project. Usually the relationship between a dominant culture and a traditional one runs in one direction: the outsider travels, observes, and extracts. Here the elders arrive as hosts and teachers, and the people of the island are asked to listen. Avery frames it as healing across generations, a way of acknowledging an inheritance rather than pretending it is absent.

Where does the money go, and why does that shape the purpose?

Avery is specific about the economics. "We're completely nonprofit," he says. "We give all of the funds that we do raise, all the profits back out to indigenous communities to preserve and protect their cultures and their land." He names examples: cultural centers in the Amazon, seed banks, and support for schools in Kenya, among "a variety of different things."

He describes the organizers' north star as service rather than profit, and says it gives the gathering "a generative abundant sense of service." Whatever one thinks of the broader festival economy, the structure is clear. The money moves outward, toward the communities whose wisdom is being shared, so the gathering's reciprocity is built into its accounts rather than promised in its mission statement.

Where to go from here

This article draws on the opening portion of Why We Gather, the first several thousand characters of a talk that runs nearly 80 minutes. The rest of the session returns to the questions the co-directors raised at the start: where the transformational festival subculture now stands, why it matters, and where it can go. The excerpt suggests the talk will go deeper into vulnerability, into what it means to live as part of the living world, and into the threshold the speakers believe the culture has reached.

For a reader arriving from this piece, three practical threads are worth following. First, watch the full talk to hear the co-directors develop their argument in their own words, especially their account of the threshold moment. Second, look at the difference the speakers draw between the logistics of a gathering and the ceremony it is meant to hold; it is a useful lens for anyone organizing community events. Third, consider the reciprocity question: who receives what a gathering produces, and whether the structure of the event makes that answer visible. Avery and Ansell's answer is clear. Their gathering is built to send resources back to the people whose traditions it carries.

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Transcript

[0:00] really appreciate you all being here.

[0:02] Um, my name is Jenna.

[0:05] >> I'm Avery.

[0:07] >> And, um, Avery and I have been

[0:09] collaborating together for the last

[0:11] seven years. Um, and we're both

[0:13] co-directors of the medicine gathering

[0:15] in the UK, which is now in its sixth

[0:17] year. Um, and it's around 10,000 people

[0:21] and we're happening in August. But both

[0:24] of us have had different paths that have

[0:27] woven us to this point. and it's

[0:29] actually the first time that we've done

[0:31] a talk together, which is really

[0:32] exciting because we've been working

[0:34] together for a long time. And um today

[0:37] we really wanted to share with people

[0:40] some thoughts around

[0:42] where we are in terms of the more sort

[0:46] of transformational progressive sort of

[0:48] subculture of the festival space and

[0:52] also why that matters, why we gather and

[0:54] also where we can go from here because

[0:58] it really feels like we're at a big

[0:59] threshold not only within this culture

[1:02] but also in the world in general. So,

[1:04] that's a little brief overview of what

[1:06] we'll talk about. Um, and we're going to

[1:10] start with just sharing some background

[1:13] of who we are, how we got to where we

[1:16] are right now. And, um, do you have

[1:19] anything else to say before we start?

[1:20] No. Should I stop?

[1:24] Okay. So, I started off in quite an

[1:27] academic um, background. I really wanted

[1:31] to be a diplomat or um go into

[1:34] international relations and work in

[1:36] development. And I really quickly

[1:38] realized that within that um industry

[1:41] and it kind of is an industry in lots of

[1:44] ways that there was a lot of bureaucracy

[1:46] and there was a lot of hierarchy and I

[1:49] felt like the top down approach to

[1:50] changing things in the world was really

[1:52] limited. And when I was 25, in the

[1:56] middle of studying for my master's

[1:57] degree in international relations, I

[2:00] went to a festival in the UK called

[2:01] Secret Garden Party. And after that, I

[2:05] sort of ran away a little bit with the

[2:06] circus. And um what I came to realize is

[2:10] that the people who were experiencing

[2:13] that space were really changing who they

[2:16] were and tapping into a purpose that

[2:19] maybe they didn't know before because of

[2:21] the very specific magic and alchemy

[2:24] that's present in those spaces. And I

[2:26] began to think, well, maybe it's not

[2:28] about me working in free internships in

[2:31] London or I almost went to actually the

[2:34] Democratic Republic of Congo at one

[2:36] point. Um, and maybe it's not just about

[2:38] hedonism and taking a bunch of drugs.

[2:41] Maybe there's a lot more to this

[2:43] gathering. And so over the years, I

[2:47] started to really focus in on um my

[2:51] purpose within the relationship of these

[2:53] amazing transformational spaces and to

[2:56] start feeling into really reviving the

[2:59] ancient ways through gathering. And that

[3:02] means um bringing

[3:05] indigenous cultures from around the

[3:07] world together. It means learning from

[3:09] ancient ways and and bringing them into

[3:11] a modern context and also coming

[3:14] together um as we are.

[3:18] And the more that I got involved in

[3:20] that, the more the doors started opening

[3:22] and the more that other people started

[3:24] coming into the field. And then the way

[3:26] I got involved in medicine in the first

[3:28] place about eight years ago was there

[3:30] was a small group of us that were sort

[3:32] of asked to be co-founders and um it

[3:35] felt like sort of Avengers Assemble a

[3:37] little bit [laughter]

[3:39] and um and I was really um blessed to

[3:41] have been doing a lot of work. We had a

[3:43] project called Reigniting the Ancient

[3:45] Ways and we brought um some elders from

[3:48] different wisdom traditions to Boom

[3:50] Festival and Glastonbury festival. Um

[3:53] and I got asked to be involved in

[3:55] medicine and I also been working for the

[3:58] last 10 years in California at Lightning

[4:01] in a Bottle Festival Symbiosis and

[4:03] bringing in this culture there as well.

[4:06] So there's a little bit about me and and

[4:08] how I got here. Um, and yeah, maybe you

[4:12] want to share a little bit.

[4:16] >> It was always gatherings for me from

[4:19] from like 15 years old. We were running

[4:21] parties in Gernzi where I grew up and

[4:23] then it started as a birthday party and

[4:25] evolved into this beautiful debfortous

[4:27] gathering on the cliffs in Gernzi and I

[4:30] knew I wanted to be in these spaces all

[4:32] the time. I was like 16 years old and I

[4:35] felt this unification of

[4:38] dance, the trance of dance with my

[4:40] friends and I felt connected to

[4:43] something that I couldn't really

[4:44] articulate at 16. So I went on to

[4:46] actually study entertainment management

[4:48] and festival production at university.

[4:50] Um and then went on my own journey of

[4:53] being sectioned spiritual awakening um

[4:57] however you want to frame it. and um

[5:00] yeah found found found kind of the

[5:01] medicine path and Jenna and I kind of

[5:03] really met through that pilgrimage with

[5:04] the wisdom carriers across the UK. Um

[5:08] having seven or eight different

[5:10] traditions all represented speaking

[5:11] different languages constellating

[5:14] something much greater than any of us

[5:15] could really articulate was was so

[5:17] powerful. And it was that trip that

[5:20] really anchored me particularly into

[5:23] ancient ways of being and wisdom

[5:25] traditions and what we can learn from

[5:27] and through them. And so the

[5:29] constellation of medicine festival

[5:31] birthing was fascinating and because

[5:34] there was eight of us at the time and

[5:37] the different

[5:39] perspectives, breadth of experience,

[5:42] backgrounds that kind of came together

[5:45] was so rich and I think it's what's

[5:47] allowed it to flourish into what it is

[5:48] today. Um, and

[5:53] medicine has always been about the why

[5:56] before the what and the how.

[5:59] The why at the center of medicine was

[6:01] around understanding how we can be

[6:03] medicine for the planet. How we can be

[6:05] medicine for ourselves, how we can

[6:07] recontextualize what medicine means in

[6:09] the contemporary world, how we can

[6:12] bridge cultures, how we can return back

[6:15] to our old ways of being somewhat. And

[6:18] so at the heart of it really we have the

[6:20] the wisdom carriers and the wisdom

[6:21] traditions and the elders that come and

[6:24] bring their philosophy, their ceremony,

[6:27] their music, the soft technologies that

[6:29] have guided them for for generations

[6:32] fundamentally rooted in their their

[6:34] connection to the earth. Them not seeing

[6:36] themselves as separate from the planet,

[6:39] extracting, mechanizing

[6:41] um as as we do in western and modern

[6:44] society.

[6:46] And we have all found our own way of

[6:49] healing from and through that. And so

[6:51] medicine was always birthed to be a a

[6:54] bridge really an access point to

[6:58] heal some of the wounds. It's really

[7:00] interesting actually when I look at

[7:01] medicine because

[7:03] Britain is responsible for for

[7:05] colonizing so much of the world for

[7:07] causing so much destruction and pain and

[7:09] suffering. Josh that owns the land

[7:12] actually um

[7:14] comes from a lineage that created all

[7:16] the maps that revolutionized the British

[7:18] Empire that were fundamentally

[7:20] responsible for for Britain exploring

[7:22] the world and and colonizing a lot of

[7:24] the world. So there's this really kind

[7:26] of deep um

[7:29] connection to to our past and there's

[7:32] something that's being healed through

[7:33] generations in some way. It feels like

[7:35] rather than us going out to their lands,

[7:37] all these wisdom cars are coming to the

[7:39] UK, you know, stepping beyond all of

[7:43] that trauma, that ancestral grief to

[7:46] come and share um with the intent of

[7:49] healing, growing and connecting.

[7:52] [snorts] And so, yeah, medicine is a a

[7:54] beautiful bridge. And the what and the

[7:58] how manifests as a festival, but we

[8:00] always hate calling ourselves a

[8:01] festival. We use the

[8:06] operational format, systems, processes,

[8:08] sound systems, team structure that we

[8:11] know so well through working in the

[8:12] festival industry all our life. But to

[8:15] facilitate what we see as a collective

[8:17] prayer, a a ceremony,

[8:21] a question actually, kind of a deep

[8:23] inquiry of how we can be medicine for

[8:26] ourselves and for the planet. And it

[8:28] feels so beautifully meaningful

[8:30] actually. and to do it with um real

[8:34] clarity and conviction around our north

[8:35] star,

[8:37] not being to profit,

[8:41] not being anything beyond service in a

[8:43] way. Um we're completely nonprofit. Um

[8:47] we give all of the funds that we do

[8:49] raise, all the profits back out to

[8:51] indigenous communities to preserve and

[8:53] protect their cultures and their land.

[8:56] um whether that's like cultural centers

[8:58] in in the Amazon, sea banks, um we

[9:01] support some schools in Kenya, a variety

[9:03] of different things. Um and it feels

[9:06] really good that at the heart of the

[9:07] gathering is this generative abundant

[9:10] sense of service and we don't make much

[9:13] money. Festivals don't make much money,

[9:15] [snorts] but we're on the way. And like

[9:17] we feel it as a catalyst and it feels

[9:21] clear and and centered in its intent.

[9:25] And I think that's why we love it so

[9:27] much. I think that's why it feels so

[9:28] deeply nourishing and reciprocal to be

[9:31] in a relationship with these cultures

[9:32] but but the land too and to kind of

[9:35] unlearn a lot of the um

[9:39] detrimental ways of being the philosophy

[9:42] that we hold in the west. Um, so it's

[9:45] been a beautiful journey and we're still

[9:46] on it and we're learning and we're

[9:47] growing and we keep asking the

[9:49] questions. Um,

[9:51] >> yeah.

[9:52] >> Yeah. I'd also like to add one other

[9:53] thing which has been really profound for

[9:55] me on the journey. Um, which is around

[10:00] remembering the identity of of the

[10:03] British Isles or what we call the wires

[10:06] isles which is Wales Island, Scotland,

[10:07] England. Certainly when I was in my 20s

[10:10] and 30s and a lot of people who I grew

[10:14] up with within England there was a

[10:17] tendency to want to seek meaning and

[10:20] identity through other traditions. So a

[10:23] lot of people were for example like in

[10:25] the 60s and 70s people were going to

[10:27] India you know to go and be with the

[10:29] gurus and and learn there and then the

[10:31] the energy sort of shifted over to

[10:33] central South America and obviously now

[10:35] you have a kind of an industry also

[10:38] around Iaska which in itself is

[10:40] beautiful medicine but the traditions of

[10:44] a lot of other um tribes and cultures

[10:46] are much better preserved than ours in

[10:49] lots of ways. So there's the song,

[10:52] there's the the dress, there's the

[10:54] community, there's the village at the

[10:55] heart of it. And in the British Isles or

[10:58] the Wise Isles, we've we've really um

[11:01] forgotten so much. The Romans came in

[11:03] about 2,000 years ago. Before the

[11:06] Romans, there was beautiful protoeltic

[11:09] cultures in our country. You know, a lot

[11:11] of people um refer to the druidic

[11:13] culture and I don't know if people have

[11:14] been to places like Stonehenge or Avery,

[11:17] but scattered across the UK, there's

[11:20] some incredible sacred sites um which

[11:23] people have gathered at for literally

[11:26] thousands of years. And when the Romans

[11:29] came in, one of the things we want to

[11:31] talk about was the was the importance of

[11:33] the circle. And when you look at the

[11:36] they're literally stone circles that

[11:38] that often when people were gathering

[11:40] there it was always you know in round

[11:42] houses in circles. And when you when I

[11:44] was thinking about this the other day

[11:45] and I was thinking when the Romans came

[11:46] in they came and built straight roads

[11:48] and they came and they they pioneered

[11:50] the strategy of you know when they were

[11:52] in battle they would be in formation in

[11:54] straight lines. And for me that really

[11:57] brought in this kind of when you look at

[12:00] history that was one of the ways that

[12:02] that the feminine was very much um

[12:05] colonized in a way and and it's as

[12:08] simple as a straight line in a circle

[12:10] literally. And it and um I think one of

[12:13] the things we're doing with medicine is

[12:15] is we're we're remembering the ancient

[12:17] ways of our lands because we've we've

[12:19] really forgotten. And that's not just

[12:21] for people with um heritage and DNA and

[12:25] blood from those lands. Because the more

[12:27] that we revive the ancient traditions of

[12:29] all our lands and all of our ancestry

[12:31] and all of our traditions as

[12:32] individuals, every single person here

[12:34] has their own ancestry. The more that we

[12:36] can learn from each other and preserve

[12:38] what's there. We have so many broken

[12:40] fragments across the wise aisles and

[12:42] we're piecing it together and we're

[12:44] doing so by bringing in um a number of

[12:47] you know people like storytellers,

[12:48] musicians because they hold the

[12:50] fragments and we work with these be this

[12:52] beautiful couple called Carolyn and

[12:53] Nigel um and they are reviving

[12:56] protocultic language and song and by and

[12:59] and she calls it the bone language and

[13:01] the reason that she calls it the bone

[13:02] language is because when you feel it you

[13:04] feel it in your bones because it's

[13:05] ancestral and they're also reviving the

[13:08] ways of you know, ancient burial

[13:09] culture, um, honoring the the the beings

[13:13] of the land and, you know, we used to

[13:15] have so many species on our lands like

[13:17] bears and wolves, and they were all

[13:19] killed. And but they're they're

[13:22] fundamental to our own cosmology and

[13:24] mythology of the past. And that's been a

[13:27] surprising journey for me with medicine

[13:29] because I personally had never connected

[13:31] in in that way with my ancestry. And now

[13:34] we get to collectively be proud of where

[13:36] we come from because as Zach was

[13:38] alluding to, colonization is so much

[13:41] part of our history. And there's so much

[13:43] shame and there's so much grief and

[13:44] there's so much blood under our lens.

[13:46] There's so much and there's you know

[13:48] when we come to medicine one of the

[13:50] things that we do which is I think

[13:51] really important is that we create space

[13:53] for grief and part of that grief comes

[13:55] from the fact that we have such a deep

[13:57] colonial history and everybody has been

[14:00] affected by colonization whether that's

[14:02] being the oppressor or the oppressed and

[14:05] decolonization is so much part of what

[14:07] we're doing with medicine and for me

[14:10] that's also really fundamental like in

[14:12] the body like we we forget that the way

[14:15] that we've been conditioned in modern

[14:17] life, you know, even like schools,

[14:19] hospitals, um I don't know if anyone

[14:21] knows a theorist called Fukul, but he

[14:23] calls it biopolitics.

[14:25] And it's essentially that we don't

[14:26] realize that we're being controlled by a

[14:28] bigger system, but we've lost touch with

[14:30] nature and we've lost touch with the

[14:32] cycles. Like as women, we have 28 day

[14:34] cycles and that maps onto the moon and

[14:36] we used to have a 13-month calendar and

[14:39] then the Romans came in and they brought

[14:40] in a taxation system which then switched

[14:42] to 12 months. And it's all these things

[14:44] that we don't realize how we've been

[14:46] disconnected from the moon and the sun

[14:48] and the earth and the water, you know,

[14:51] the water and the and and I think with

[14:53] medicine, we we're bringing in the we're

[14:57] bringing in people who understand how we

[14:59] used to do what we do. We're we're

[15:01] bringing in people that understand the

[15:02] power of ritual. And these people come

[15:05] from and ceremony and gathering. And

[15:07] these people literally come from all

[15:08] over the world. And like Avery's saying,

[15:11] it's a bridge and we have all these

[15:13] different people from whether they're

[15:15] visual artists, you know, sound artists

[15:18] or ceremonialists, but they're all

[15:20] coming together, all talking to each

[15:21] other. And so it's for me, we're at a

[15:24] point where the ancient and the future

[15:25] is is is at a at a nexus point like

[15:28] never before. We previously if you

[15:31] wanted to read an old text like a say a

[15:34] Buddhist text or a Sufi text you might

[15:36] have to travel to you know Iran or you

[15:39] know Nepal and go to a specific library

[15:42] and find it and and you know the

[15:44] scholars that had time to do that could

[15:46] and now you can literally go online and

[15:48] be like type the type the name and then

[15:52] you've got all of this information at

[15:53] your fingertips. But having that

[15:55] information and actually practicing the

[15:57] information and being together with that

[15:59] information and learning and integrating

[16:01] it and realizing that that's our natural

[16:02] way of being you we have an opportunity

[16:05] to do that now because of one

[16:06] technology. So I feel like we're at this

[16:09] beautiful threshold where we can where

[16:12] we can put all that back into focus and

[16:15] we can exist as as modern beings by

[16:17] using ancient traditions. And that's one

[16:20] of the reasons medicine [music] is so

[16:21] cool.

[16:23] Um, and so anyway, with with that in

[16:26] mind, um, I wanted to talk a little bit

[16:29] about the gathering and because, you

[16:31] know, we we feel like it's really

[16:32] important to talk about why we gather.

[16:35] It's not just coming together to see

[16:37] your friends or dance or there's

[16:39] actually for me I think there's

[16:41] something that quite significantly

[16:43] happens in the field when we gather. And

[16:46] um, I don't know if anybody's heard of

[16:48] um, the difference between like Chyros

[16:50] and Kronos time. Does anyone know about

[16:52] that? Yeah, these guys do. Um, so again,

[16:56] like pertaining to the the ancient Greek

[16:58] word um

[17:02] Oh, good. Hi. So, chyros um or Kronos

[17:07] first of all um responds to the fact

[17:09] that okay, our talk is at 2:45 and it's

[17:12] here and it's on Sunday and everyone can

[17:15] look on their clock and know the

[17:17] calendar date and and we're here.

[17:20] So Kronos is kind of the calendar

[17:22] everything kind of structured time

[17:24] whereas Chyros is the time which is the

[17:27] time out of time where we are um

[17:31] essentially you know those times where

[17:33] you suddenly 3 hours goes by and you

[17:36] have no idea where it went. you're in

[17:38] movement, you're in dance and like Zach

[17:40] was talking about the trance dance.

[17:42] Festivals create context where we're not

[17:44] looking at our watches and and and we're

[17:46] in free flow. And um you know, extreme

[17:49] sports are another amazing example of

[17:51] this. It's it's actually our natural

[17:53] state also of being before we were

[17:56] before the system was imposed. And

[17:58] what's really cool about these spaces is

[18:00] that they lend themselves to activism

[18:02] and culture change because the normal

[18:04] rules of the everyday, you know, and the

[18:07] normal considerations of every day are

[18:09] left outside. So we create these

[18:11] containers at these spaces and we step

[18:13] through thresholds, we buy wristbands,

[18:16] we we make an intention to come in and

[18:18] it's a completely different space where

[18:21] so much more can emerge. And [music] for

[18:24] me, festivals and gatherings are um

[18:26] they're essentially living laboratories

[18:28] where, you know, so and so like people

[18:31] can come, they can um sell their jewelry

[18:33] and their art, they can express

[18:35] themselves, people can experiment,

[18:37] people can, you know, they're beautiful

[18:40] spaces where we're not confined in the

[18:42] same way as we are in cities or normal

[18:44] life. So we have this ability to shift

[18:47] things in in the subculture. And this

[18:50] has been the case for literally

[18:52] thousands of years.

[18:54] Gathering has been a thing for human

[18:57] beings since we even before we were a

[19:00] sedentary when we were nomadic. People

[19:02] would come and gather in the same place

[19:04] yearly. So we've got the cardinal points

[19:06] of the year like the solstesses and the

[19:08] equinoxes.

[19:09] And festivals served a very specific

[19:12] cultural purpose where people would come

[19:15] together and they also served to [music]

[19:17] for people to experience again grief and

[19:21] even if individually you weren't going

[19:23] through a process if you came together

[19:25] you know it's like if one person in the

[19:27] village is is sick everybody in the

[19:29] whole village is sick and it was this

[19:31] idea that we operate within the whole

[19:33] system

[19:35] and that's why festivals are so magic

[19:37] and so and why we have so much potential

[19:40] to to change things through festivals.

[19:42] Um and you know we have various um like

[19:46] at medicine we have seven sacred fires

[19:48] and we we use the ancient ways to tap

[19:53] people back in with their ancestry

[19:55] there. And so there's a lot of powerful

[19:57] technologies that are available at

[19:59] festivals. Um do you want to talk a

[20:01] little bit about the community and space

[20:04] in the festival like that?

[20:08] As Jenna was saying, we um we've always

[20:11] gathered. We've always found meaning in

[20:13] in community.

[20:15] The ethmology comm means together, unity

[20:19] as one. to come together as one in some

[20:22] way to to form a community whether it's

[20:24] transient and for a weekend with

[20:26] thousands of people we don't know to

[20:29] arrive somewhere with some sense of

[20:31] shared purpose and meaning

[20:33] is a beautiful and rich opportunity to

[20:36] to move beyond the self the story of

[20:40] self the the kind of narcissism and the

[20:42] ego that we all have to live in in this

[20:44] world in order to operate and to

[20:46] progress and to move forward and in

[20:49] spaces of gathering, we can feel

[20:52] ourselves for a moment as kind of like

[20:53] one organism. I'm sure we've all had

[20:56] that at festivals and just like on the

[20:57] dance floor with like so many friends

[20:59] and people we've connected with over the

[21:00] weekend feeling a deep sense of kind of

[21:03] belonging and safety um as we gather and

[21:07] as Jenna was saying we've we've done

[21:08] this for so long holy in India like

[21:11] Matsuri in Japan Tim Cat in Ethiopia the

[21:14] Dynesian rights in Greece these

[21:16] beautiful rights of passage that's

[21:18] always been held beyond us the the the

[21:21] kuma in in India 400 million people

[21:24] gather apparently over 3 weeks. I've not

[21:26] been, but you know, it's it's wild. Um,

[21:30] and every person is going there to to

[21:33] feel something that they cannot get in

[21:34] their individual lives. The monotony of

[21:37] the day-to-day life, as Jenna was

[21:39] saying, Kronos time, this chronological

[21:41] sequential linear way of being that we

[21:44] live our lives dayto-day where time is

[21:46] time and we have a plan and [snorts] we

[21:48] we understand and know what is coming

[21:51] next. And at a festival, in this chairos

[21:53] time, in this qualitative magical time

[21:56] beyond time. Anything feels possible.

[22:00] Anything can happen. I I have stood on a

[22:02] dance floor and felt like I've healed

[22:04] something ancestral, something way

[22:06] beyond myself. I felt like I've tapped

[22:08] into something much greater in in this

[22:10] state of trance on a dance floor. Moving

[22:14] to a beat or a rhythm with with others.

[22:17] And whether it's a gathering that's

[22:19] focused and rooted in tradition or

[22:21] religion or a shared prayer or whether

[22:24] it's a a secular place of worship beyond

[22:27] religion. Medicine is very much secular

[22:28] in all the ways. We welcome different

[22:30] traditions but we are gathering with a

[22:35] shared inquiry, a shared intent of

[22:37] prayer [snorts] um ceremony

[22:40] to turn our attention into a form of

[22:43] intention. And um there's such a

[22:46] richness in that. There's such a

[22:49] richness in

[22:51] being together.

[22:55] And the sense and state of belonging

[22:59] allows us to remove so much of the armor

[23:01] that we wear in our day-to-day lives, so

[23:04] much of what we have to wear to protect

[23:05] ourselves in a world that is rooted in

[23:08] scarcity and separation.

[23:10] And the question really is like how can

[23:12] we move into collaboration and cohesion?

[23:14] How can we move into a space of kind of

[23:16] shared abundance?

[23:19] Moving beyond scarring away our own

[23:21] acorns in uh pursuit of self de

[23:26] self-growth, self safety, seeing

[23:29] ourselves as individuals and see

[23:31] ourselves as nodes in a much wider web

[23:34] of existence. to see ourselves as like a

[23:37] pi tiny little jigsaw piece amongst

[23:40] eight other billion jigsaw pieces. Um,

[23:42] and I really feel at festivals or

[23:44] gatherings, we can come together in some

[23:46] way. Um, and and slot into each other

[23:48] and see ourselves as as a collective.

[23:52] At Boom, I I left Boom literally just

[23:55] chanting and writing in my journal, we

[23:56] are one. We are one. Like hundred times

[23:58] over. It's actually the mantra of Boom

[24:00] Festival. But by the last day, a lot of

[24:03] acid DMT and other

[24:05] >> [laughter]

[24:05] >> other molecular messengers and chemical

[24:07] keys. Um, I I was like so living that. I

[24:12] was like so one with everyone on that

[24:14] dance floor. And it gave me such a sense

[24:17] of purpose,

[24:20] such a sense of hope,

[24:23] of safety in my being, like beyond

[24:25] myself,

[24:27] like on like a deep soul level. and and

[24:29] the richness of that and the ability to

[24:32] carry some of that magic out into our

[24:33] communities, into our homes, to to to

[24:37] emanate some of that out into the people

[24:38] that are feeling isolated and alone in

[24:40] the world is a gift. And loneliness is

[24:44] like the silent epidemic of our times.

[24:46] Some mad statistic that like every 40

[24:48] seconds someone somewhere in the world

[24:51] kills himself in some way, shape, or

[24:53] form. Every 40 seconds. That's more than

[24:56] like war and natural disasters combined.

[25:00] And we

[25:03] are in the most technologically

[25:05] connected era of human history through

[25:07] the internet, through AI, through

[25:11] phones and technology. And yet we are

[25:13] the most disconnected. Suicide is the

[25:15] highest it's ever been. You know, it's

[25:18] absurd and obscene. I think something

[25:20] like 30% of deaths for men below 40 is

[25:23] suicide or something wild. And it's a

[25:25] it's a a wild and interesting time. And

[25:28] I think we're further perpetuating this

[25:31] separation

[25:33] in society.

[25:35] And I believe fully and wholly that

[25:38] festivals can be great catalysts for

[25:40] change. They're moments that we come

[25:42] back to ourselves and we feel that we

[25:45] are not alone.

[25:47] >> I think that they're blueprints for

[25:48] belonging in some way.

[25:50] >> A sense of belonging to a shared group

[25:52] of people. whatever that shared identity

[25:55] is. And often it's like we like the same

[25:57] music,

[25:58] you know, and and in a way that's like a

[26:00] secular place of worship. Like in the

[26:02] old lampshade, squiggly jellyfish sandy

[26:05] stage, I don't know what it's called,

[26:06] but that's what I call it. It's like a

[26:08] moment where we're like all around the

[26:09] DJ and it's almost like worship.

[26:12] >> Yeah.

[26:12] >> Like we are moving to the same beat and

[26:15] we are in a state of prayer. We are

[26:17] deeply in our sematic sensory self. We

[26:21] are we are moving together as one.

[26:23] to something shared and there is so much

[26:27] healing from and through that. So much

[26:29] healing that comes from and through the

[26:30] body. Jenna knows so much about this.

[26:32] She's running a new space at the

[26:33] festival this year called the House of

[26:34] Soma all about the sematic intelligence

[26:36] and I'm sure she'll talk about that and

[26:38] how we heal from and through it. But I I

[26:43] feel super inspired

[26:47] at festivals because they bring me back

[26:49] into this this idea of interbeing.

[26:52] Kitnahhan beautiful philosopher coined

[26:54] this term many years ago. Into being

[26:58] this idea that we are not separate from

[27:00] each other but we are valued expression

[27:02] of the same one and into being really is

[27:04] rooted in this idea that we are nature

[27:07] and in the reductionist mechanistic

[27:10] capitalist society that we find

[27:12] ourselves in um we we see nature as a

[27:15] resource.

[27:17] We turn the planet into products. We

[27:19] turn people into services

[27:22] and we are [snorts]

[27:25] carving out the insides of a dying world

[27:29] in order for more profit and more

[27:31] growth. Like and it blows my mind. And

[27:35] into being is this sense that actually

[27:36] we are nature and in do that we're

[27:38] destroying ourselves. And we see it now

[27:39] with heat, with you know the melting ice

[27:42] caps, with forest fires, with

[27:44] temperatures. It's a dying world and

[27:46] it's super sad.

[27:48] And so I hold the question, how can we

[27:51] come back into a

[27:56] reciprocal, loving, nurturing way of

[28:00] being with the earth and I come to

[28:02] festivals and I feel that like even if

[28:05] I'm on the dance floor, I just come back

[28:07] to that sense of

[28:09] oneness. And there's a real richness in

[28:12] it.

[28:13] um Gustth a beautiful beautiful he who's

[28:15] a like leader of like national defense

[28:18] in the US or something and it's this

[28:19] beautiful quote that I love so much he

[28:21] says um I used to think the top

[28:24] environmental problems were biodiversity

[28:26] loss ecosystem collapse um and the

[28:29] extinction of of our species and and

[28:34] animals and I've come to realize that

[28:36] the the the problem that we really face

[28:38] in society is greed apathy and

[28:41] selfishness

[28:43] And he thought that 30 years of good

[28:45] science could resolve this, could

[28:46] resolve all the issues we're facing on

[28:48] earth, the depletion of our resources.

[28:50] But really what we need is a spiritual

[28:51] and cultural transformation.

[28:54] And that is really how we how we shift

[28:56] society. And I think these places are

[28:59] places that you come and you feel a

[29:01] sense of that. Even if it's a a moment

[29:04] of like a sator numinous experience um

[29:07] where you feel connected to something

[29:08] greater, you carry that in your system

[29:11] and you take that home. And I think the

[29:13] cultural transformation, the ripples

[29:14] that we create in these spaces can

[29:17] create waves in our communities.

[29:20] Um yeah and so I I feel so devoted and

[29:25] committed to

[29:27] these spaces as opportunities to shift

[29:30] our way of being. You know, I like to

[29:32] think like the ecological, political,

[29:35] social, environmental crisis that we

[29:37] face are fundamentally the same crisis

[29:40] is my belief at least. And it's a crisis

[29:43] of perception. And the perception is

[29:45] that we are separate

[29:47] from each other and from the earth. And

[29:51] May festivals bring us back into a sense

[29:54] of connection, belonging, and

[29:58] oneness.

[30:00] >> [laughter]

[30:04] >> just to close this because it's it's a

[30:07] beautiful um concept which I it's really

[30:11] helped me understand how things shift

[30:13] outside of the spaces in which they're

[30:15] shifting. Uh there's a amazing um

[30:18] British academic scientist um Rubbert

[30:22] Sheldrake and he has created this um he

[30:26] created this term called the the morphic

[30:28] resonance and he believes that the all

[30:32] species essentially share a collective

[30:34] memory and that DNA carries information

[30:39] from one generation to another but so

[30:41] does the act there's a there's a field

[30:44] that connects the species as Well, so

[30:47] the [music] theory is that if if one

[30:49] thing is happening to a species and it's

[30:51] evolving in one place, then without

[30:54] having to be in the same physical

[30:56] location as another species, that that

[30:58] species can also be affected and to

[31:00] change. And that's what morphic

[31:02] resonance is. And I believe when we are

[31:05] gathering as humans here in these

[31:08] spaces, we're remembering something

[31:10] within the field of our ancestry and and

[31:12] the ways of being that we've always held

[31:15] together. Um, and that that also impacts

[31:18] other people in other places. Like I

[31:20] don't know if you've heard of the

[31:20] concept of collective consciousness as

[31:22] well. That was also related to the

[31:24] hundth monkey theory that you know

[31:26] monkeys on separate islands ch on one

[31:29] island they changed the behavior and

[31:31] they adapted and they evolved and then

[31:33] with no connection monkeys on another

[31:34] island it was something to do with sweet

[31:36] potatoes eating sweet potatoes and then

[31:38] they started doing it on another island

[31:40] and and humans as Avery [snorts] saying

[31:43] are 100% part of nature so the same

[31:46] theory applies and that's another reason

[31:48] I feel so strongly that we need to

[31:51] gather because if we don't gather and we

[31:52] don't come together, [snorts] the the

[31:55] level at which we can shift things in

[31:57] the field and um change where we're

[32:00] going as humanity isn't as as high. So,

[32:05] just wanted to finish this section with

[32:07] that because I I love that concept and

[32:09] [music] I think it's really powerful.

[32:11] So

[32:13] moving on, I one thing that we [music]

[32:16] thought because obviously I represent in

[32:19] some ways the the feminine way of being

[32:21] and you represent the masculine and of

[32:23] course I've got masculine and you've got

[32:25] feminine as well, but we wanted to talk

[32:27] a little bit about how our journey has

[32:30] um put into focus this idea of leading

[32:34] from the whole. So [music]

[32:37] I think we're all aware that we're we're

[32:39] coming out of a very patriarchal

[32:42] dominant [snorts]

[32:42] [clears throat] way of being. So the

[32:44] idea for example of hierarchy

[32:47] um there's a lot of um people talk a lot

[32:49] about the wounded masculine and the way

[32:52] that women have been um oppressed as

[32:54] well. And

[32:57] what I'm coming to realize is that in

[32:59] these spaces we have an opportunity to

[33:02] break the mold and understand how we can

[33:06] uh practice and integrate feminine

[33:08] leadership [music] within the masculine

[33:11] container because both are absolutely

[33:13] fundamental.

[33:15] And the divine union between the

[33:17] masculine and the feminine in my mind is

[33:19] where if we all lead from that place

[33:22] that leadership will then be kinder

[33:26] come from a place of care. It will be

[33:29] more intuitive. It will be more still.

[33:31] Like one of the things that we do with

[33:32] medicine is that we're every two years

[33:34] now.

[33:36] We take the time to pause, reflect,

[33:38] rejuvenate, consider [music] what we're

[33:40] doing, tune into our prayer. And for me

[33:42] that's a very feminine way of being. But

[33:44] then in the year that we're on, it's go

[33:47] time and there's systems and there's

[33:48] procedures and and we need both of those

[33:51] things.

[33:52] And

[33:54] I love I love the concept of these sort

[33:56] [music] of concentric circles and and

[33:58] again this comes back to the circle with

[34:00] medicine. We have a we have a very

[34:01] strong prayer at our heart. We have a

[34:03] very strong intention and that prayer is

[34:08] almost kind of how we connect between

[34:10] the three-dimensional realm and sort of

[34:12] the unseen realms. And the prayer is

[34:14] always evolving because it because the

[34:16] gathering has different needs and and

[34:17] and we have different needs but at its

[34:20] heart it we always check in as a as a as

[34:23] a group. And then around the prayer we

[34:25] have our the co-founders which you could

[34:27] sort of see as a council like a council

[34:29] of guardians of this precious seed that

[34:32] we planted which is now growing into

[34:34] this beautiful flower and and growing

[34:36] and growing and growing. And so we all

[34:38] hold that. And then around us we have

[34:40] the people the sort of community and the

[34:42] people that are supporting us birthing

[34:44] that prayer. And around that is the sort

[34:46] of you know the greater world at large.

[34:49] And this is not a top- down system where

[34:51] we're like you do this you do this. It's

[34:54] a new way of being in which the

[34:55] information moves at every point of the

[34:57] circle and then it it it oscillates back

[35:00] and forth and we adjust and and we we

[35:03] tweak the systems continuously because

[35:06] another thing that's really important

[35:07] about what we do is that we very

[35:09] consciously tune into how we communicate

[35:11] with each other.

[35:13] I think another thing about the feminine

[35:14] is the idea that emotions are also

[35:17] welcome in leadership.

[35:19] A lot of corporate [snorts] companies,

[35:21] you know, it's sort of like the idea is

[35:22] that you leave your emotions at the door

[35:25] and you come in and you do your job and

[35:26] then you deal with it. And I think

[35:27] that's one of the reasons that so many

[35:29] people have so many oppressed

[35:31] [clears throat] emotions because [music]

[35:32] actually emotions aren't accepted as

[35:34] being part of the process of how we lead

[35:36] and how we do things. And in medicine,

[35:38] we've evolved systems and we work with

[35:40] various different practitioners and

[35:42] therapists and we've all been through

[35:45] the most insane journey in baptism of

[35:47] fire. When I came in, I had very

[35:49] specific ideas [music] about what I

[35:51] needed to be as a leader. I needed to be

[35:52] in control. I needed to have ownership.

[35:55] Um, I needed to, in a sense, sometimes,

[35:58] you know, remove someone out the way

[36:00] because it was [music] threatening to my

[36:01] power. And now we've we've we've evolved

[36:04] a system where we have um we reflect to

[36:07] each other all the time. We use tools of

[36:09] non-violent communication. Um, you know,

[36:11] things like internal family systems.

[36:13] We're utilizing what's available to us

[36:16] as ways of communicating because that is

[36:18] just as much as part of what we do and

[36:20] how we lead and how we create as the

[36:23] spreadsheets and the systems and the

[36:25] hierarchy and you know and and we we

[36:29] rule also we sorry we [laughter] we also

[36:32] um we also operate through the idea of

[36:34] consent not consensus. So you can't go

[36:37] too far in the other direction in which

[36:39] everybody has to agree. You know, it's

[36:41] we have to we have to move and we have

[36:43] to make decisions. So people have

[36:45] different levels of decision- making

[36:47] power, but it's it's not like, you know,

[36:49] one person is [clears throat] is, you

[36:51] know, the king or the queen or whatever.

[36:53] Like we we we operate so we're um

[36:56] supporting each other. And if people are

[36:58] going through something emotional, we

[36:59] step up and we show up for those people.

[37:01] And that goes for our core group. And it

[37:03] also goes through, you know, all the

[37:05] people that curate for us, manage for

[37:07] us. We have systems where people are

[37:10] supported at every level. But it also

[37:12] means that people show up and people

[37:14] step up because they're supported and

[37:16] they're loved. And it's a culture of

[37:18] care at its heart. And I and I think

[37:19] that's you know the future is how can we

[37:22] how can we weave in this precious care

[37:25] for each other for ourselves and for

[37:28] nature and this deep deep deep respect

[37:31] at the same time as honoring the

[37:33] masculine like we also need to honor the

[37:35] masculine because it's so important that

[37:37] we that we bring that in and we come

[37:39] into wholeness and we lead from this

[37:41] place of wholeness. Um, and yeah, I've

[37:45] I've grown definitely like enormously

[37:47] from from this whole journey. Um,

[37:51] and do you want to talk a little bit

[37:53] about the men's work that you do?

[37:57] >> Yeah,

[37:58] >> sure.

[38:01] >> As Jenna expressed, I think um, just to

[38:04] just to add to something you're saying

[38:05] before I dive into that. Um

[38:08] like with a with something like medicine

[38:10] or with any organization or any

[38:12] structure I think how how it is led is

[38:16] emanates out into every facet of that

[38:19] living organism. A business a

[38:21] corporation is a living breathing

[38:23] organism with with many different nodal

[38:27] points that allow it to express whatever

[38:29] it's doing in the world. Usually that's

[38:32] rooted in like making more money, you

[38:34] know, and and quite a yang masculine

[38:38] linear boundaried approach and because

[38:41] that's what works. That's what

[38:43] fundamentally uh makes money. And as

[38:46] Jenner expressed, trying to see um

[38:49] medicine as a circle and not a triangle

[38:52] um this top down approach is is I

[38:55] believe what's causes so many of the

[38:57] problems we see in the world. and and

[39:00] like medicine being kind of the why at

[39:02] the core and then the what and the how

[39:03] coming after from that why in the same

[39:05] way like the way that we treat each

[39:07] other I guess in in the center in some

[39:09] way um in in a circle um is is felt I

[39:14] think it's felt through the organization

[39:16] and the way that we operate and we are

[39:18] learning and failing forwards with the

[39:20] full force of our being in each and

[39:21] every moment figuring out how to better

[39:24] operate and communicate and listen

[39:26] through feedback and conflict resolution

[39:29] and and check-ins and and making space

[39:32] and all of these seemingly like

[39:34] inefficient ways of being in an

[39:36] organization. Um like I've we've all

[39:38] worked in corporate spaces at some point

[39:40] in our life and there's no time for any

[39:42] of that. Um because it's not seen as

[39:45] it's not quantitative or measurable. Um

[39:49] it's this qualitative relational uh

[39:52] interpersonal way of being that we

[39:56] overlook and at medicine we have made so

[40:00] much space for our own processes our own

[40:02] growth as individuals um and and the way

[40:04] that we relate and the friction points

[40:07] and it's been so rich for our growth um

[40:10] and I won't go into all of that but I'm

[40:12] so grateful for it and um the

[40:15] gathering's kind of evolved from and

[40:17] through that [gasps]

[40:18] and I I I really believe that we're

[40:21] moving into a softer

[40:25] more tender relational way of being. I

[40:28] think we have to I think we're being

[40:29] forced to and like Jenna said it's quite

[40:32] a dual perspective kind of like non-dual

[40:34] shy tantrrisism Kashmir shyism is kind

[40:37] of my my philosophy but um the the yin

[40:41] and the yang the masculine and feminine

[40:42] the brahma and the vishnu however you

[40:43] want to perceive it um feels like

[40:46] there's there's somewhat of a

[40:48] um a meeting in the middle um and we see

[40:52] this through like the amount of feminine

[40:53] leadership in our organization um and

[40:56] and beyond And this is I guess where the

[40:58] kind of men's work conversation comes

[41:00] in. You look six years ago, a group of

[41:03] men decided to hike a mountain and now

[41:04] twice a year we go on a week rights of

[41:07] passage kind of a collective pilgrimage

[41:10] into nature to explore our internal

[41:12] architecture to unpack what it is to be

[41:15] a human. um to look at all the the shame

[41:19] and the and the grief and the fear

[41:20] and the anger that that lives and

[41:22] resides in us and to express and meet

[41:26] that in a healthy way. And in the past

[41:30] seven or so years, there are hundreds if

[41:33] not thousands of men's circles and men's

[41:36] organizations exploring the masculine

[41:38] archetypes. And with men being

[41:40] vulnerable, um I've seen like hundreds

[41:43] of men cry and weep and be seen in their

[41:47] most vulnerable childlike states. Um

[41:50] that have looked at their their trauma,

[41:53] their past, their ancestral line, how

[41:56] they were fathered um in in a in a a war

[42:00] war in a in a a post-war generation um

[42:04] and in in a heavily capitalist society.

[42:08] through the industrial revolution. And

[42:10] it's really interesting now that like

[42:12] there are thousands of men that I've

[42:14] I've witnessed and that I've been a part

[42:16] of

[42:18] supporting or or or witnessing simply in

[42:22] these spaces that have come right back

[42:24] to the tender, gentle, you could call it

[42:28] feminine um aspects of themselves and

[42:31] are carrying that out into the world.

[42:33] And I I I'm really excited by this. I'm

[42:36] I'm like so um instilled with

[42:43] faith actually um that this shift in

[42:48] some way is happening and it probably

[42:50] isn't soon enough. I don't know if

[42:51] anyone here knows Sarah Wilson. She's an

[42:54] amazing kind of philosopher on what she

[42:56] calls the collapse. She's like it's kind

[42:58] of too late for hope. all the

[42:59] thresholds, all the agreements that we

[43:01] made at COP in France, um all of the

[43:07] thresholds

[43:09] um to sustain life on Earth, we've like

[43:12] crossed and now we don't need to just

[43:14] sustainability is not enough. Like it's

[43:16] it's a regenerative culture and way of

[43:18] being in order to to sustain life on

[43:20] Earth. And she's utterly convinced that

[43:22] whether we go extinct or not, the

[43:23] collapse is coming. like the latest

[43:26] stage capitalism is is here and it's now

[43:29] preparing for the collapse. Um

[43:33] uh what's her name? Not Sharon Blackie,

[43:36] Manda Scott, she wrote the Buddaca

[43:38] books, but she speaks about something

[43:40] called the throughutotopia, like the way

[43:42] through latestage capitalism. Spiral

[43:44] dynamics is a really interesting

[43:46] philosophy of like these different tiers

[43:47] of organization. Um and I and I really

[43:50] love this because this is I think a way

[43:53] a way through. Um

[43:56] Buckminister Fuller first of all has a

[43:58] quote where he says um [snorts]

[44:01] we cannot change the world by operating

[44:05] in the existing systems but we must

[44:07] create new ways of being and new systems

[44:08] that drive the old one obsolete. And the

[44:11] reason I like spiral dynamics is because

[44:13] I I think that's almost impossible. Like

[44:15] we want to like just create our own

[44:16] village in our community and we can do

[44:18] that in our own isolated ways but we are

[44:20] not affecting the wider system. Everyone

[44:22] here is still operating in money and

[44:24] everyone here is still going to work and

[44:26] exchanging their time for money and

[44:28] we're still working on gross domestic

[44:30] profit. And spiral dynamics says that we

[44:34] can move beyond

[44:36] uh traditional capitalist ways of being.

[44:38] And so that the red tier is like law and

[44:41] order fundamentally. No, the red tier is

[44:44] the red tier, sorry, is is essentially

[44:46] just being a human and fending for

[44:47] yourself. So, murder, theft, taking what

[44:51] you want and having your resources. And

[44:54] then later on down the line, we evolved

[44:57] past that and we bought in the the blue

[44:59] tier, which is law and legislation and

[45:03] religion, these kind of rules around

[45:05] morality and what's right.

[45:08] And and then the yellow tier came in.

[45:10] And the yellow tier was capitalism

[45:12] fundamentally. It was you're abiding by

[45:15] the rules below, which are the the law

[45:17] and and moral guidelines, but you're now

[45:20] able to leverage society in order to

[45:24] benefit yourself within the within the

[45:26] boundaries of law, but it's still a an

[45:28] individual um

[45:32] egoic way of being. And then above that

[45:35] tier comes the green tier which is like

[45:38] uh charities uh green organizations

[45:41] activist rights like people coming back

[45:43] to the Wii coming back to wanting to be

[45:46] in service to the planet. And in a way

[45:48] that's kind of where we sit in this

[45:50] charitable organization. And then

[45:52] there's this new tier which is the blue

[45:53] tier that's that's

[45:55] >> turquoise

[45:56] >> turquoise that they they believe is

[45:57] coming in. And this turquoise tier is is

[46:01] leveraging capitalist systems,

[46:03] leveraging our ways of being, our

[46:06] structure, our organization

[46:08] um in order to have green philosophy and

[46:13] principles in order to give back to the

[46:15] earth, to come back to we and to extract

[46:18] money from the system, to use power to

[46:21] leverage it for good, to feed and

[46:25] nourish the earth and our communities in

[46:27] reciprocity.

[46:28] And I really believe this like blue tier

[46:30] is on the way through this feminine

[46:32] principle, feminine leadership, um

[46:34] coming back into vulnerability,

[46:36] our ways of relating, the the new old

[46:39] ways, the soft technologies of

[46:41] indigenous communities, our ancient ways

[46:43] of being, coming back to the village in

[46:45] some way. Um and I believe the the blue

[46:48] tier is on the way. And I believe that's

[46:50] part of the throughtopia. It's like

[46:52] beyond the collapse, the turquoise tier.

[46:55] [laughter]

[46:56] titles. Definitely tack

[46:58] >> um and it's exciting and I really think

[47:01] like Bhutan, if anyone knows Bhutan and

[47:03] their their their legal system and and

[47:06] their kind of um governance systems, but

[47:09] they are exquisite as a as as a country.

[47:12] They've separated themselves out from

[47:13] the world. You can't go to Bhutan unless

[47:15] you fly in and you're you're guided by

[47:19] the hosts there. And they take you to

[47:21] hotels. You can only stay in certain

[47:22] places. They take you around various

[47:24] sites, but they don't want the the wider

[47:27] western world or or just the world in

[47:29] general to come in and almost pollute

[47:31] what they've created. So, they're super

[47:33] tentative. And the queen and the king

[47:35] have recently started allowing more

[47:37] people in because they want to become

[47:39] this progressive country. And they ran a

[47:41] beautiful like technology and

[47:42] spirituality summit last year. Um

[47:45] they're doing another great summit in

[47:47] October this year. And they do not work

[47:49] on gross domestic profit like every

[47:51] other country in the planet does. The

[47:54] success of their country is gross

[47:56] domestic happiness.

[47:58] They measure the success of their

[47:59] country on how happy their people are.

[48:02] Equality in in wage, in ways of living,

[48:06] in lifestyle. And the success of their

[48:08] country is based on depression rates and

[48:10] suicide rates and how happy people are.

[48:13] And they do quantitive and qualitative

[48:15] kind of studies on this consistently.

[48:17] consistently looking at how can we make

[48:20] our community happier

[48:22] and and and they have they have

[48:24] religion. They kind of like they're a

[48:25] fusion of like Buddhism and um kind of a

[48:28] more non-dual philosophy I believe. I

[48:30] don't know so much about it but but they

[48:32] it's kind of almost this secular way of

[48:34] being. And I'm like why are we not

[48:36] looking at what Bhutan are doing and

[48:38] being like they've got it figured out.

[48:39] People are happy they're not dying.

[48:41] There's not this absolutely insane level

[48:44] of inequality, this extreme polarization

[48:47] of wealth where in the rest of the world

[48:49] we have our first trillionaire who owns

[48:52] more money than like over like 2 and a

[48:53] half billion of the poorest people on

[48:55] the earth. How is that even like how is

[48:57] that possible? It's absolutely wild. And

[49:00] so this is like where I feel like we're

[49:01] entering the stage of like the oraorus.

[49:03] We're like we're like eating our own

[49:05] endrails as a society and as a world. We

[49:07] are destroying our planet and our

[49:10] species at an insane rate. And we are

[49:13] becoming so unbelievably

[49:16] like painfully

[49:20] far away from any sense of equality. And

[49:23] so how can we learn from Bhutan? How can

[49:25] we step into circle technology seeing

[49:28] ourselves as as part of a whole um and

[49:31] and and and not above anyone? How can we

[49:34] come back into community? Come back into

[49:36] oneness. come back into happiness and

[49:39] joy and connection and belonging and

[49:41] safety and security and cohesion and

[49:44] collaboration um beyond scarcity and

[49:46] separation. And it's a question that

[49:49] we're living each and every day. This

[49:51] idea of like um like anthropocentric

[49:53] ways of being putting ourselves at the

[49:55] top humans um or or egocentric ways of

[49:59] being like ourselves is the most

[50:01] important um part of the world. Josh

[50:03] Shry who's coming to medicine I don't

[50:04] know if anyone knows the Emerald podcast

[50:06] but he was got really famous through

[50:07] doing this podcast um the revolution

[50:09] will not be psychologized like we're

[50:11] obsessed with our own healing our own

[50:13] story our own trauma our own ways of

[50:15] being and we like we've personified and

[50:18] pathologized everything and how can we

[50:20] come back into like collective healing

[50:22] healing our collective story and

[50:24] ancestry how can we see ourselves as

[50:26] part of a wider system and and come back

[50:28] into the eosentric way of being seeing

[50:31] ourselves as part of nature like the the

[50:33] the whole web the the inter being the

[50:35] piece that I shared earlier um that

[50:37] ticknot shared

[50:38] >> the the symbia scene

[50:40] >> the symbia scene there we go

[50:45] >> y um okay so so that's kind of the end

[50:49] of what we really wanted to share but

[50:51] but how we want to finish is is about

[50:55] how the festival has its limitations

[50:59] and where do we go from here

[51:02] And how do we find the village?

[51:05] You know, festivals take place over a

[51:09] very short period of time. They take a

[51:11] huge amount of resources, fuel, energy,

[51:15] carbon dioxide emissions.

[51:18] People, you know, people traveling from

[51:19] all around the world. It's the biggest

[51:22] um contributor, environmental

[51:23] contributor is people literally

[51:24] traveling to festivals. We we we we put

[51:27] them up the temporary villages. we

[51:29] experience something and then it's all

[51:32] taken down again. And this goes from

[51:35] anything like Burning Man, which is, you

[51:37] know, a week long, where [clears throat]

[51:38] also lots of things get set on fire and

[51:40] exploded. Um, and [laughter] which also

[51:44] is great for the environment. Um, and

[51:47] um, you know, how do we how do we make

[51:48] these things more sustainable? How do we

[51:51] make them more regenerative?

[51:53] How do we find more permanent villages?

[51:57] and how do we operate as a whole system

[52:00] within those? And we're really looking

[52:03] at that. We're looking at the fact that,

[52:05] you know, we also come to a land, we we

[52:08] spend a month there building it,

[52:09] experiencing the gathering, and then

[52:11] taking it all down again. And there's

[52:13] something within that that doesn't sit

[52:14] quite right for us because how are we

[52:17] tending to the land? How are we building

[52:19] systems? You know, Boom is such a

[52:21] beautiful inspiration for us because

[52:23] they bought the land and they're able to

[52:25] put in irrigation systems. They're able

[52:28] to even have, you know, things like land

[52:30] art that are there time and time again

[52:33] so they don't have to be rebuilt every

[52:34] time.

[52:35] Um they've also you know in a very

[52:38] ancient way they they have different um

[52:42] kind of sort of ceremonial ritual places

[52:43] across the land which get more and more

[52:47] you know that the sacred element of it

[52:49] is is integrated more and more and more

[52:51] because the gathering can evolve in the

[52:53] way that um people are tending to the

[52:55] land they have a relationship between

[52:56] the three realms which is the human the

[52:58] natural and the divine realms on a year-

[53:00] round basis. Um, so we're really looking

[53:03] at what's the future for us as a

[53:06] organization, as a as a living

[53:08] ecosystem. How can we, you know, do is

[53:12] it is it that we find land and we do

[53:14] something more permanent? Is is the way

[53:16] forward,

[53:18] you know, like life is a festival. My

[53:20] friend has a podcast called Life is a

[53:21] Festival and how can we make, you know,

[53:24] we we go down to the river here and it

[53:25] feels like we thrive in these

[53:27] conditions. Like you you go down there

[53:29] and it's like paradise. Everybody is

[53:31] playful and smiling and connecting and

[53:33] speaking to strangers and that's

[53:35] actually our natural state of being.

[53:37] It's our natural state of being

[53:39] fundamentally like to be on the earth to

[53:41] feel the the ground under our feet to

[53:43] you know to hug trees anything like

[53:45] that. It's not hippie. It's actually

[53:47] just we're human and we're part of this

[53:49] ecosystem and we need to be in it to

[53:51] remember that. We need to we need to we

[53:53] need to remember that we're not separate

[53:55] from it. And so yeah, what's the next

[53:59] step? And we'd love to hear also from

[54:02] anyone that wants to share ideas that

[54:05] you have about where we go from here

[54:07] because it's a it's a big conversation

[54:10] and I'm sure that lots of people here

[54:11] have a lot of experience and

[54:14] you know ideas to share.

[54:20] >> A final piece on that before we open it

[54:22] up to everyone else. Um yeah, is this is

[54:26] this the question and the inquiry which

[54:27] is like beyond the festival and creating

[54:30] these temporary utopias um that we find

[54:33] so much healing in and then we return to

[54:36] the monottomy of our day-to-day lives

[54:38] and we go back to work and within a

[54:40] couple of weeks we've forgotten it all

[54:41] and we're kind of we're just back in it

[54:43] and and this is the like inquiry that

[54:46] we're on now. parents. Part of the

[54:47] reason that we've become bienial and we

[54:48] do it every other year is to hold the

[54:51] question around how do we kind of we

[54:53] continue the prayer beyond the festival.

[54:55] We've always said like medicine is like

[54:56] it's the exclamation mark at the end of

[54:59] the prayer and the prayer continues

[55:01] throughout the year. And at the moment

[55:03] that's just kind of in our own ecosystem

[55:05] in our ideation and and kind of birthing

[55:07] um and unraveling um of of the festival.

[55:11] But how do we now sustain community and

[55:14] connection beyond the festival? And like

[55:17] we we've kind of got a bit of a staged

[55:19] plan at the moment that's emerging and

[55:21] um you know we're exploring circles

[55:23] creating local impact within our

[55:25] community gathering people. They go on

[55:27] this kind of uh we're calling it harvest

[55:29] the medicine. It's kind of six week

[55:31] journey of kind of learning about

[55:32] different ways of being regenerating the

[55:35] land. Um, we're hopefully going to have

[55:37] little micro grants for people to to go

[55:39] out and to clean up rivers, um, to plant

[55:42] trees, to connect their community, to,

[55:46] you know,

[55:48] try and make change in their their local

[55:50] communities, maybe politics or whatever

[55:53] it might be. Maybe it's just circles and

[55:54] gathering and creating spaces for people

[55:56] to belong in their local towns um that

[55:59] they've met through medicine with the

[56:01] philosophies and the principles that we

[56:02] kind of try to to imbue and embody. Um

[56:06] but really beyond that the desire is

[56:09] land. The desire is to come back to the

[56:12] village in some way, shape or form to

[56:15] live in harmony with one another and the

[56:17] land to to make festivals more permanent

[56:20] ways of being in some way, shape or

[56:22] form. I mean, and we can't rave and have

[56:24] 2 hours sleep and party and take LSD

[56:26] like every day, but but we can come back

[56:29] into belonging and gathering and

[56:33] breaking bread together and holding

[56:35] beautiful, deep, meaningful and rich

[56:37] questions with people with shared and

[56:39] aligned values. um and and tend I think

[56:42] is kind of at the root and the heart of

[56:44] it to kind of belong to a place to to

[56:47] deeply listen to the earth beneath our

[56:50] feet in some way shape or form. Um, and

[56:53] I I'm sure everyone here agrees that

[56:55] like all anyone's talking about right

[56:57] now is like finding community, like

[57:00] buying a bit of land with the river and

[57:01] finding some mates and building our own

[57:03] homes and, you know, being in community

[57:05] and raising children away from the

[57:07] nuclear home and, you know, like I I

[57:10] really never would have children in a

[57:11] nuclear context personally. The stress

[57:13] and the pressure um like the stress and

[57:15] the pressure of a festival is huge and

[57:18] the stress and the pressure of a baby is

[57:20] huge. And how can we share that

[57:22] responsibility with others? Um how can a

[57:26] festival not be this unbelievable amount

[57:28] of like emotional and financial pressure

[57:31] and responsibility on a certain set of

[57:34] individuals and how can we we share

[57:36] that? How can each person's individual

[57:38] gift um be be presented to the to the

[57:41] world? Um, Bill Plin speaks of this this

[57:44] um um

[57:48] mythopo poetic identity like finding our

[57:50] unique and individual gift to bring to

[57:53] the world not to save the world but to

[57:56] fully belong to it. And I just really

[57:57] love this like how can I bring my gift

[58:00] to belong into a wider system? And so we

[58:03] would love to buy land. We would love to

[58:05] follow in boom's footsteps. We would

[58:08] love to have people living on a piece of

[58:09] land um bringing their own gifts to it.

[58:13] Um to reimagine

[58:17] existence, reimagine community life, um

[58:20] to return to the village in some way,

[58:22] shape or form. And that's kind of like

[58:24] the longer term prayer um to to allow

[58:28] the festival to live and breathe uh each

[58:31] and every day. And I don't know how

[58:33] we're going to get there. And it's kind

[58:34] of in the longer term vision and

[58:35] trajectory. Um and yeah, I just I really

[58:40] believe that our our our religious

[58:44] uh economic cultural past no longer

[58:48] provides a map to our future. Like I

[58:50] really believe that there is there is a

[58:52] there is a different way of being and

[58:54] maybe this is rooted in in the very old

[58:55] ways and maybe this is why we're so

[58:57] connected to indigenous cultures and

[58:59] philosophies and ways of being because

[59:01] it's coming back to simplicity

[59:04] um and care from from from me to we

[59:09] and that is the life that I I hope to

[59:12] live in the world I want to be a part

[59:14] of. So,

[59:17] this is an inquiry. We have absolutely

[59:20] none of the answers, but we're

[59:21] continually asking the question, and we

[59:23] would love for you guys to ask the

[59:25] question. We would love to hear from you

[59:26] like any reflections, questions,

[59:27] inquiries, ideas, thoughts. Um,

[59:31] yeah. Um,

[59:34] about 20 years ago, I heard of a series

[59:37] of um

[59:38] >> Yeah. So, Tony, I was backpacking in

[59:41] Brazil 20 years ago, more or less, and

[59:43] there was that was ongoing for a while

[59:46] and they would create a festival. It's

[59:48] some in some piece of land about 200

[59:50] people would arrive for two weeks and

[59:53] it's a festival and they were doing

[59:54] ceremonies and music and they would

[59:56] bring there was a good chunk of the

[59:57] people were shamans like the really

[1:00:00] tribe people coming to work and doing

[1:00:02] ceremonies and sweat lodges and prayers

[1:00:04] and and implanting a seed in those two

[1:00:07] weeks and creating all the spaces like a

[1:00:09] kitchen and a bathroom and like they

[1:00:11] would create they would do workshops

[1:00:12] about natural building. can natural

[1:00:14] build this and each part of those things

[1:00:16] would be the seed of a future community.

[1:00:18] When the when the festival finished 20

[1:00:20] people would remain and would be they

[1:00:21] are the seed of a new community and that

[1:00:23] gathering would go to another place and

[1:00:26] they would just keep doing that and they

[1:00:27] they founded many communities in that

[1:00:29] way.

[1:00:29] >> Wow.

[1:00:30] >> Something has been happening in Brazil

[1:00:31] for a while. So that's like an idea that

[1:00:34] maybe it's like you you just bring the

[1:00:37] people you seed you can be more than 200

[1:00:39] people and and you plant that

[1:00:41] >> and then boom it starts.

[1:00:44] >> It's beautiful.

[1:00:45] >> It reminds me of the rainbow gatherings

[1:00:47] as well.

[1:00:47] >> Yeah. You know it's it's similar but

[1:00:50] it's rainbow gatherings are are are

[1:00:52] temporary.

[1:00:53] >> Temporary. Yeah. But I think those two

[1:00:55] things combined, I've also been to a few

[1:00:56] rainbow gatherings and rainbow

[1:00:58] gatherings whoever hasn't been is

[1:01:00] >> it's I feel it's one of the few things

[1:01:01] that I would say it's it's a before and

[1:01:03] after because

[1:01:04] >> gathering with 2,000 people and blessing

[1:01:06] the food that we all cooked at home

[1:01:10] >> like 2,000 people in a circle that that

[1:01:12] is

[1:01:15] >> yeah the rainbow is is incredible. Um,

[1:01:18] and it's so simple and you're all naked

[1:01:20] and there's no technology and you're

[1:01:21] just living and with the land and with

[1:01:24] each other. And I love this idea of like

[1:01:26] the seed from a festival. And it's

[1:01:29] beautiful that this is like happening in

[1:01:31] Brazil. My question like the issue

[1:01:33] really is like land ownership. You know,

[1:01:35] 80% of the land in the UK is like

[1:01:37] privately owned or something absurd.

[1:01:39] Like there are there's like 10 people

[1:01:41] that own like 180,000 acres of land in

[1:01:44] the UK or something wild. like just

[1:01:46] estate owners and aristocracy that's

[1:01:48] been passed through generations. So,

[1:01:50] it's really hard to like find land that

[1:01:52] you can be on and live on and then you

[1:01:55] can stay there for a while but it's

[1:01:56] owned by someone else or you can't build

[1:01:58] permanent structures and you know

[1:01:59] because of wild rules that have been

[1:02:02] made up for no reason you know like

[1:02:04] there's a place in Wales in the UK we

[1:02:06] have something called the one planet

[1:02:07] development where you can if you have

[1:02:09] like a a certain carbon footprint if you

[1:02:11] are making enough income to feed

[1:02:14] yourself from the land you can build

[1:02:16] your own homes. You still have to get

[1:02:18] permission, but you can build it from

[1:02:19] cob and clay as long as it's completely

[1:02:21] natural materials, timber framing,

[1:02:23] whatever it might be, super adobe. You

[1:02:25] can actually build your own homes. And I

[1:02:26] just love this. It's like, why are we

[1:02:28] not becoming a bit more progressive? At

[1:02:30] the moment, there is like unbelievable

[1:02:31] amounts of legislation and and red tape

[1:02:34] that means that you can't just live on

[1:02:36] land and build your own community

[1:02:38] because some madeup person owns it

[1:02:39] because of these madeup borders that

[1:02:41] we've created um and rules. And it

[1:02:45] sucks. And so this is like the next

[1:02:46] step. How do we move beyond all of the

[1:02:49] the wild legislation and rules and

[1:02:51] boundaries that are set? Um because in

[1:02:53] principle this is exactly what we can

[1:02:55] do, you know? So that's the question. Um

[1:02:58] and it's a constant journey of trying to

[1:03:01] figure that out. I think

[1:03:02] >> I mean one of the ways for sure we're

[1:03:04] doing this already is to bring all the

[1:03:06] billionaires and bring it into a tribe

[1:03:08] and then oh wait actually I have like

[1:03:12] >> yeah have resources 100%. Yeah. Did you

[1:03:15] want to share something? And

[1:03:17] >> yeah, um I was just wanted to ask you

[1:03:19] guys to reach on uh so I've been

[1:03:21] fortunate enough to go to the ways and

[1:03:23] woods where you guys host the festival

[1:03:24] although I've not been to medicine

[1:03:25] before and you mentioned about all of

[1:03:28] the features of this festival that we've

[1:03:29] all enjoyed and immersed ourselves in

[1:03:31] and I would like anyone who's not been

[1:03:34] to this area or your festival to know

[1:03:36] the similarities of what the wast like

[1:03:38] just speak about the land and how people

[1:03:40] would enjoy similar

[1:03:42] similar experiences with in that space

[1:03:45] so they can relate to

[1:03:49] >> so to speak about the context of Wazing

[1:03:52] >> like just so people understand like it's

[1:03:54] very similar to this it's woodland in

[1:03:56] the UK a lot of people might not have

[1:03:57] been to England before who are here

[1:04:00] >> uh just so they can relate and see

[1:04:01] themselves in that place you come to

[1:04:03] medicine

[1:04:05] >> yeah definitely I mean one thing that um

[1:04:07] comes to my mind um straight away is

[1:04:08] that there's a ancient utree on the land

[1:04:12] and um there's actually I think it's in

[1:04:14] Scotland, but there's a lineage where

[1:04:17] people go and live with a utree and

[1:04:19] there's a deep medicine in the UT. It's

[1:04:21] actually the oldest tree in the UK. And

[1:04:24] so the UT tree has its deep own deep

[1:04:28] intelligence and it's very present on

[1:04:30] the land there. So we've got we've got

[1:04:32] these ancient trees which really hold

[1:04:35] their own wisdom and energy. And the

[1:04:38] Utree um I'd say is one of the really

[1:04:41] profound things about the land there.

[1:04:42] different trees there are the ancient

[1:04:44] trees but it's very similar we also have

[1:04:46] different um waterways and and just as

[1:04:49] an interesting side note the atomic

[1:04:51] weapons establishment which was built in

[1:04:53] the 60s sits right next door to the site

[1:04:56] and we've also got some really amazing

[1:04:58] lay lines that run through the site um

[1:05:00] which actually Jody you and I were

[1:05:01] talking about the other day um so the I

[1:05:05] don't know if people know about lay

[1:05:06] lines but they're essentially like

[1:05:07] energetic um fields on the earth that um

[1:05:10] have very specific resonance

[1:05:12] And there's also a chapel on the hill

[1:05:15] and the lay line I think runs right

[1:05:17] through the chapel. So it's it's really

[1:05:19] interesting energy and also we've been

[1:05:21] running ceremony there and inviting

[1:05:22] indigenous um wisdom carriers from

[1:05:25] around the world for you know over a

[1:05:26] decade now. So way before medicine

[1:05:29] started. So the prayers are embedded in

[1:05:31] the land. We've also had people come and

[1:05:32] do um like dowsing and create crystal

[1:05:35] grids there. And you know a lot of

[1:05:38] people come and they they they work some

[1:05:40] magic which people who come to the

[1:05:41] festival wouldn't have any clue about

[1:05:43] but essentially it creates it creates a

[1:05:46] very specific protected field around the

[1:05:48] festival. Um you have anything to add

[1:05:51] about the land quite a few magical

[1:05:53] >> Yeah. I mean it's it's like so it's it's

[1:05:57] privately owned and it's a private

[1:05:58] estate that's been in the family of Josh

[1:06:00] for many years. And so you know I

[1:06:02] alluded to this earlier it's like 5 a

[1:06:04] half thousand acres of land. most of it

[1:06:06] woodland.

[1:06:07] >> Yeah.

[1:06:07] >> And and I I shared this earlier, but

[1:06:09] I'll kind of say it again because I

[1:06:10] think it's like really interesting. The

[1:06:12] like origin story of uh Mount Mountain

[1:06:16] Page was the company that Josh's great

[1:06:18] great great great grandparents created.

[1:06:21] They created all of the the maps, the

[1:06:24] artillery maps and the astrology maps.

[1:06:26] Um they were the first creator of the

[1:06:27] world map ever. Um, and they created the

[1:06:30] maps that revolutionized the British

[1:06:32] Empire that that meant that we took over

[1:06:34] the world in different ways and

[1:06:36] destroyed countries and pillaged

[1:06:38] cultures. And it's like a wild and deep

[1:06:41] history of the land. And Josh is in his

[1:06:44] way, like the reason that he's wanting

[1:06:45] to put his land to good use, to allow

[1:06:48] people to come and to heal um on the

[1:06:50] land to kind of, you know, to be in

[1:06:52] service in some way is to heal some of

[1:06:54] his like ancestral line. Um to he's

[1:06:57] writing a book on it right now to to

[1:07:01] yeah to to make up for his ancestral

[1:07:04] story. Um and it's really beautiful.

[1:07:06] It's really beautiful that he's kind of

[1:07:08] trying to heal on all these levels and

[1:07:10] layers and beautiful that medicine's

[1:07:11] ended up being there in this way. So, it

[1:07:13] has a a rich and beautiful and deep

[1:07:14] history. I mean, landscape wise, you

[1:07:16] asked the question, it's like beautiful

[1:07:17] ancient woodlands, swimming lakes. It's

[1:07:19] very beautiful.

[1:07:21] >> One of the most beautiful natural lakes

[1:07:23] I've ever swam in like stunning in the

[1:07:25] UK. You know, a lot of people don't

[1:07:26] know, but we have these spaces.

[1:07:28] >> Yeah.

[1:07:29] >> Yeah. We also create various altars

[1:07:31] across the land as well.

[1:07:33] >> You really like we really honor the

[1:07:35] different elements in the different

[1:07:36] places across the festival. And like you

[1:07:38] know for me

[1:07:40] we change the world by create by

[1:07:43] creating by creating beauty you know

[1:07:45] like it's this this beautiful way it's

[1:07:47] like the beauty way we we create beauty

[1:07:49] so people can be inspired to create more

[1:07:52] beauty and you know it's very hard to

[1:07:55] operate in a in a bad way when you're

[1:07:57] surrounded by beauty. It's so simple but

[1:07:59] we're we're all creative beings and and

[1:08:01] that's our natural state. And so the

[1:08:03] altar is also something that I find

[1:08:04] really unique and special about it. They

[1:08:07] all come, you know, all made of natural

[1:08:08] materials. By the way, what's the time?

[1:08:10] I'm just wondering if we'd like to It's

[1:08:12] four. Okay. Amazing. So, we um But you

[1:08:16] had something. Yeah. Last question.

[1:08:19] >> First of all, thank you. I was invited

[1:08:21] six days ago to be here and I think

[1:08:23] you're why I'm here.

[1:08:26] [snorts]

[1:08:26] >> Bless you.

[1:08:28] >> Um I ran a camp at Burning Man for 25

[1:08:31] years

[1:08:33] >> and I want to speak specifically.

[1:08:35] There's so many things I can speak of.

[1:08:36] 90% of what you said are Bucky that

[1:08:39] quote my favorite quote on the planet.

[1:08:41] >> Yeah.

[1:08:42] >> Um is the green to turquoise.

[1:08:46] >> And the reason I keep going back to

[1:08:48] Bernie man service is because there's no

[1:08:51] commerce

[1:08:53] >> and there's no judgment

[1:08:55] >> and I go for 14 to 16 days.

[1:08:58] >> Once I went for 70 hours

[1:09:01] for a year, good timing. [laughter]

[1:09:06] universe has my back for sure. Um, and

[1:09:09] that I wanted to say that your land is

[1:09:11] coming and coming fast. I'm sure you've

[1:09:14] heard of the great wealth transfer

[1:09:15] that's happening in the trillions of

[1:09:17] dollars and that 60 to 70% of that is

[1:09:20] coming into the hands of the feminine

[1:09:23] >> and whether it is the people you already

[1:09:25] know or that great wealth transfer and

[1:09:28] just being in those communities and you

[1:09:30] had said it of inviting the billionaires

[1:09:33] you know creating systems even here

[1:09:35] someone said they talked to the

[1:09:36] organizers and they said make it nicer

[1:09:38] and bigger and they said we want

[1:09:40] everyone here and making it accessible.

[1:09:42] So is there any suggestions you have of

[1:09:44] that green to turquoise of how to keep

[1:09:48] bringing in that wealth transfer so that

[1:09:51] um everyone is here because we need

[1:09:54] everyone and all of those voices.

[1:09:56] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:09:59] You this question is so interesting

[1:10:01] because one of the things and thank you

[1:10:02] for everything you're doing as well.

[1:10:04] It's really happy that you're here. Um

[1:10:07] thank you for your words. Um yeah, so

[1:10:10] we're we're at this um one of the things

[1:10:12] that we're exploring in our year off is

[1:10:14] how do we expand our ecosystem to make

[1:10:17] more impact and to give back more. And

[1:10:19] so we're looking at impact investment

[1:10:22] and the way to connect with high net

[1:10:24] worth individuals. And

[1:10:27] one of the gateways that we found is is

[1:10:30] for is to is first of all to invite them

[1:10:32] to the gathering so they can open their

[1:10:34] hearts. They can experience and they can

[1:10:35] see another way of being and and living

[1:10:37] and be inspired. So this year we've been

[1:10:40] really um switched on with inviting very

[1:10:43] specific individuals to come. So um you

[1:10:46] know and and to share with them like

[1:10:48] it's not we're not a money-making

[1:10:50] enterprise as you say it's we want the

[1:10:53] flow of resource to move so we can give

[1:10:55] back. It's like it's you know we don't

[1:10:57] want to hold anything. It needs to be in

[1:10:59] a continual flow.

[1:11:01] And um and I also think that plant

[1:11:03] medicines are a big doorway to this. you

[1:11:05] know, like people going and and

[1:11:07] experiencing things like Iawaska and

[1:11:09] having realizations that, you know,

[1:11:11] hoarding wealth, for example, isn't a

[1:11:13] natural state of being. And to come into

[1:11:15] community and I think also this this

[1:11:17] space of belonging is really important

[1:11:18] because because often I think with

[1:11:20] wealthy people, they're in a they're in

[1:11:21] their own um kind of they're in their

[1:11:24] own paradigm, you know, and they are

[1:11:26] stuck in that, you know, what what

[1:11:27] Batman says about the paradigm shifts

[1:11:30] that they they can't see a different

[1:11:31] paradigm because [clears throat] they

[1:11:32] can't feel it. And then when they

[1:11:34] experience these things, they can see it

[1:11:35] and they can feel it and then they can

[1:11:36] move into that space. But until they're

[1:11:39] actually like physically in the spaces,

[1:11:40] I don't think that they can shift. But

[1:11:43] yeah, it's this is something that Yeah.

[1:11:46] >> I just wanted to add the distinction,

[1:11:47] you may know this, of the imaginal

[1:11:49] [clears throat] sounds.

[1:11:49] >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The butterfly and

[1:11:51] the caterpillar.

[1:11:53] >> And I think this great transfer is our

[1:11:56] way of having that 10%.

[1:11:59] >> Yeah.

[1:11:59] >> And the imaginal cells is the

[1:12:01] caterpillar, you know, the caterpillar

[1:12:03] eats voraciously at like thousands of

[1:12:06] times it weight I don't know how many

[1:12:08] times and then goes into the cocoon and

[1:12:10] then turns into a nutritive soup and

[1:12:12] then these cells once you eat 10% of

[1:12:15] these imaginable cells they create the

[1:12:17] butterfly

[1:12:18] >> and use this nutrative soup to create

[1:12:21] this new beautiful creation we couldn't

[1:12:23] have imagined

[1:12:25] >> so I'm gonna come back to that imagining

[1:12:28] cell as part of this

[1:12:29] >> green to teal Yeah,

[1:12:32] >> thank you. It's a really beautiful

[1:12:34] inquiry and um we are we have a new

[1:12:36] stage this year. Well, a few new stages,

[1:12:38] but there's one called the circle. And

[1:12:41] rather than it kind of being this format

[1:12:43] where we're like on a stage and we're

[1:12:44] talking to you, it's going to be like

[1:12:47] six to 10 um experts in a certain field

[1:12:51] having a long format 2 and a half hour

[1:12:53] discussion in a circle like a round

[1:12:55] table and people can watch and listen to

[1:12:57] this discussion point to come back into

[1:12:59] the circle and to to have voices heard

[1:13:02] rather than presenting an idea to hold a

[1:13:04] question and an inquiry collectively.

[1:13:06] And on the last day um we it's all about

[1:13:09] how how we move money. Um and so there's

[1:13:12] going to be seven or eight wealth

[1:13:13] holders, people with a lot of money and

[1:13:16] doing wonderful things in the world or

[1:13:17] not. Um to come and hold the question

[1:13:19] around how do we shift our way of being

[1:13:22] and use money and allow money to flow um

[1:13:24] into the things that we we need it to.

[1:13:27] Um there's going to be a few authors

[1:13:29] there, Kate Rayworth who wrote down

[1:13:31] economics and other great people. And so

[1:13:33] this is like an ongoing question and

[1:13:35] something that that we're acutely aware

[1:13:36] of. And I I hold I hold so many

[1:13:40] questions about what the answer is to

[1:13:41] that. But it's shifting their way of

[1:13:44] being and seeing it's like moving away

[1:13:47] from feeling like you've won the game if

[1:13:49] you have the most money.

[1:13:50] >> Yeah.

[1:13:51] >> You know, which is the game.

[1:13:53] >> Yeah. Which is the way of the current

[1:13:55] world and our current philosophy. Um to

[1:13:58] how can I have the most impact and do

[1:13:59] the most good in the world? And you see

[1:14:01] this with like founders like you know

[1:14:02] the Patagonia founder that's put

[1:14:04] billions of pounds into his trust is

[1:14:06] giving nothing to his kids or to protect

[1:14:08] the planet. It's happening more and more

[1:14:10] and more. Um even like the founders of

[1:14:12] Snapchat recently like

[1:14:13] >> paid off like uh500 million pounds of

[1:14:16] like medical debt to um everyone in

[1:14:19] California. They wiped out all the

[1:14:20] medical debt in California or something

[1:14:21] like that. Something wild. And there's a

[1:14:23] happening. I feel it happening. And it's

[1:14:25] like they're the people we should

[1:14:26] celebrate, not the people that hoard

[1:14:29] their own [snorts] resource and deplete

[1:14:31] everything for everyone else. And so I

[1:14:33] think it's coming. Um I don't

[1:14:34] necessarily know the answer, but I think

[1:14:36] it's just cultural and philosophical

[1:14:38] shifts um in in what we value in society

[1:14:42] and [snorts] and that comes through

[1:14:43] gathering and moments of connection and

[1:14:45] inspiration and rich conversations on

[1:14:47] the dance floor and

[1:14:49] >> parties with a purpose.

[1:14:52] >> More of that.

[1:14:54] >> Yay. Thank you.

[1:14:55] >> Okay. Should we take is one more

[1:14:57] question

[1:15:00] >> or share?

[1:15:02] >> Yeah, sure.

[1:15:02] >> I realize that like each and every one

[1:15:06] of us can have such like a huge impact

[1:15:09] already in like integrating this

[1:15:11] frequency that we live here and bring it

[1:15:13] back home and just like to everyone

[1:15:16] doesn't matter work, family, friends. If

[1:15:19] you just like treat everyone like it's

[1:15:22] it's a family member, it's another form

[1:15:26] of ourselves. With this frequency, we

[1:15:29] can catch so many people and build

[1:15:31] community. I myself love to do like this

[1:15:34] co-creational events where I just invite

[1:15:37] people from everywhere. Even sometimes

[1:15:39] random people that I just meet, get them

[1:15:42] here and like show them how we do.

[1:15:45] this like meeting with with intention

[1:15:49] and like just showing them how we do. I

[1:15:51] can see like how much community grows

[1:15:54] and

[1:15:54] >> you don't have to like I mean it's great

[1:15:57] to to buy land and to do this but I

[1:15:59] myself I think we should just like

[1:16:02] spread this in all our society and try

[1:16:05] to just yeah show them how it can be. So

[1:16:09] anyway they just come and shift their

[1:16:12] mindset.

[1:16:13] >> I love that. over my yesterday um after

[1:16:16] a jade set um I saw and I was thinking

[1:16:19] oh there's like cans all over the floor

[1:16:22] and um I started picking up the cans and

[1:16:24] I looked over and there was another

[1:16:25] woman she was also picking up cans and

[1:16:27] she was like if we pick up cans everyone

[1:16:29] will pick up cans it's so simple right

[1:16:32] because we we mimic as humans if we

[1:16:34] that's how the culture works is that we

[1:16:36] mimic and then we and then it becomes a

[1:16:38] critical mass and then we all do that

[1:16:40] thing and then we all believe in it you

[1:16:42] know like we create our own realities

[1:16:44] through a shared agreement of that is

[1:16:46] the reality, you know, and so and I love

[1:16:49] what you're saying because it's it's

[1:16:50] leading by example and being aware and I

[1:16:52] love what you're saying about every

[1:16:54] single person is part of the human

[1:16:55] family and you know like sometimes we

[1:16:57] forget that and you know treat everybody

[1:16:59] as as their brother and sister you know

[1:17:03] um that we um I was really honored to

[1:17:06] meet um Chase Ionize who was one of the

[1:17:08] people um who was um fundamental at

[1:17:10] Standing Rock when I was over in America

[1:17:12] a couple of weeks ago. and he was

[1:17:13] sharing a lot about the Lakota way of

[1:17:15] being and um and the Lakota way of being

[1:17:18] is essentially you know we are an ally

[1:17:20] of the universe like that's the way of

[1:17:22] being it's like so everyone's a sister

[1:17:24] and brother all beings are sisters and

[1:17:26] brothers you know it's just like a

[1:17:27] complete like ecosystem of of belief and

[1:17:30] that's so fundamental to their way of

[1:17:33] being and practice you know and the way

[1:17:35] that it's um made so manifest in their

[1:17:37] culture is because they gather in teepee

[1:17:40] they gather in ceremony and those values

[1:17:42] are shared all the time and they're

[1:17:43] deepened and deepened and deepened. Um,

[1:17:46] so yeah, it's it is about land but it's

[1:17:48] also just about a simple way of being.

[1:17:49] So, thanks for bringing that. Yeah.

[1:17:53] >> Yeah. [laughter] One more. Hello.

[1:17:56] >> First of all, thank you for being here.

[1:18:02] One of my favorite places in the world

[1:18:04] and it's really

[1:18:09] and I just I'm just in a conundrum

[1:18:11] because I have to say goodbye to my

[1:18:13] sister to another country, but I would

[1:18:15] love to talk to you about impact

[1:18:17] investing and podcast.

[1:18:18] >> Amazing.

[1:18:19] >> So, are you guys around?

[1:18:20] >> We're around. Yeah.

[1:18:22] >> We're partying hard tonight. [laughter]

[1:18:27] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:18:29] >> Yeah. Come find us. We'll find you.

[1:18:34] [laughter]

[1:18:34] >> I think I think we're kind of out of

[1:18:36] time, which is amazing. It's 14 minutes

[1:18:37] past and we finish in one minute. So,

[1:18:39] that was perfect. [laughter]

[1:18:41] Thank you so much.

[1:18:42] >> Thanks for coming.

[1:18:45] >> I didn't think anyone would want to

[1:18:46] listen to a talk here. So, thanks for

[1:18:49] being here.

[1:18:50] >> Appreciate you guys.

[1:18:53] Follow

MF
Artist
Medicine Festival

Watch more from Medicine Festival on YouTube.

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Festival-cultureCeremonyIndigenous-wisdomMedicine-gatheringCommunity-building

Hai domande?

Domande frequenti

The medicine gathering is a UK event now in its sixth year, co-directed by Zak Avery and Jenna Ansell, and drawing around 10,000 people each August. The co-directors describe it as a nonprofit that brings wisdom carriers from indigenous and other traditions together with attendees, using festival-style operations to hold what they call a collective prayer, ceremony, and deep inquiry.
In their talk, the co-directors say they 'always hate calling ourselves a festival' because they use festival formats, systems, and team structures to do something different. The aim is to facilitate a ceremony and a question about how people can be medicine for themselves and the planet, not simply to run an entertainment event.
Zak Avery argues that medicine has always been about its purpose before its methods. For the gathering, that purpose is how to be medicine for the planet and for oneself, how to reframe medicine for the contemporary world, and how to bridge cultures and heal wounds. The format, ceremonies, and logistics follow from that purpose.
Jenna Ansell describes Reigniting the Ancient Ways as a project that brought elders from different wisdom traditions to Boom Festival and Glastonbury. It was one of the threads that led to the medicine gathering, which she says drew together people who were working to revive ancient ways through gathering.
Avery says the gathering is completely nonprofit and returns all raised funds and profits to indigenous communities to preserve their cultures and land. He cites examples including cultural centers in the Amazon, seed banks, and support for schools in Kenya.
The talk argues that it can, if its purpose is designed around ceremony. Ansell says she came to see that festival spaces change people and open a sense of purpose, and the co-directors build the gathering around the wisdom, music, and ceremony of elders while using standard festival infrastructure to host it.

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