Transcript
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[1:03] >> Hello, and a very warm welcome to Lama
[1:06] Live.
[1:09] I'm Dr. Jean Carroll, joining you live
[1:12] from Sussex, England, and I'm delighted
[1:15] to be here with all of you around the
[1:17] world.
[1:19] Whether you're joining us for the first
[1:21] time or have been connected with Tara
[1:23] Mandala for many years,
[1:25] we're truly happy to have you here with
[1:27] us.
[1:29] Do let us know where you're tuning in
[1:31] from as together we create the mandala
[1:34] of this moment.
[1:37] At Tara Mandala, we're committed to
[1:39] being a welcoming, open, and safe
[1:41] community for practitioners and students
[1:44] of all cultures
[1:46] and every race, religion, gender,
[1:49] sexuality, age, ability, and
[1:52] circumstance.
[1:54] Today, we're delighted to welcome two of
[1:57] Tara Mandala's beloved senior teachers,
[2:00] Dorje Lopön Charlotte Rotterdam, and
[2:03] Lopön Peter O'Hanlon, for a fascinating
[2:07] conversation on Demons in Love,
[2:10] how to transform relationship challenges
[2:13] into wisdom.
[2:15] Our relationships are among our greatest
[2:18] teachers, bringing us joy, intimacy, and
[2:21] connection, but also revealing our
[2:23] deepest fears, unmet needs, and habitual
[2:27] patterns.
[2:29] Drawing on the Feeding Your Demons
[2:30] practice,
[2:32] Charlotte and Peter will explore how we
[2:35] can meet these challenges with curiosity
[2:38] and compassion, transforming the
[2:40] difficulties we encounter in
[2:42] relationships into opportunities
[2:45] for greater awareness, understanding,
[2:48] and wisdom,
[2:50] and deeper compassion for ourselves and
[2:53] others.
[2:55] Today's conversation also offers a
[2:57] glimpse into their upcoming online
[3:00] program, Demons in Love,
[3:03] taking place over two Sundays, November
[3:06] 8th and 22nd, which they'll be teaching
[3:09] alongside Lama Tsultrim Allione.
[3:13] In the spirit of generosity and
[3:15] appreciation, you're warmly invited to
[3:17] make an offering of Dana to our teachers
[3:20] through the link in the chat.
[3:23] And now, it's my great pleasure to
[3:25] welcome
[3:26] >> [clears throat]
[3:26] >> Dorje Lopön Charlotte Rotterdam, and
[3:29] Lopön Peter O'Hanlon.
[3:32] Welcome.
[3:34] >> Mhm. Thank you, dear Jean. I'm so happy
[3:37] to be with you.
[3:39] >> Wonderful to be here.
[3:40] >> And hello, everyone.
[3:42] Uh so good to be with you this morning
[3:46] for us, or perhaps it's afternoon
[3:48] evening where you are.
[3:51] Why don't we begin
[3:53] very simply as we always do
[3:56] by
[3:57] taking a moment to arrive
[4:01] wherever in your day you find yourself
[4:05] at the beginning, in the middle, towards
[4:07] the end.
[4:12] Taking a few breaths.
[4:18] Feeling the warmth of your body.
[4:30] The preciousness of this moment.
[4:38] And this joyful opportunity to come
[4:40] together in sangha
[4:43] around the world.
[4:47] Let's raise our motivation for this time
[4:49] together.
[4:52] May it may be of benefit
[4:54] to ourselves
[4:56] to our loved ones, our community
[5:00] and in some way also
[5:02] to our larger world.
[5:11] Thank you.
[5:15] So I I think many of you, perhaps some
[5:18] of you, I'm not sure who all is here,
[5:21] but many of you know us already and know
[5:25] that we've had the great fortune of
[5:28] um
[5:29] not only being partners in this life and
[5:32] parents to two beautiful boys who are
[5:34] getting so big, about to one of them is
[5:36] already out of the house and the other
[5:38] one just getting ready. So it's a tender
[5:40] time for us as parents.
[5:42] Uh joyful time also.
[5:45] But also that we've been blessed to be
[5:48] able to practice together and to teach
[5:51] together. And so
[5:53] we will be sharing a bit from really our
[5:57] own experience of being partners in this
[6:01] lifetime,
[6:02] Dharma partners in this lifetime.
[6:05] And as the wonderful title of this
[6:08] session is and the the the two-day
[6:11] retreat that as as Gen shared will be
[6:14] teaching with Lama Tsultrim coming up
[6:15] next month, Demons in Love. And
[6:20] we have a little bit of experience of
[6:21] meeting each other as demons and also in
[6:24] love. [laughter]
[6:25] >> I was going to say we are the demons
[6:27] that happen to also be in love.
[6:29] >> Exactly. So, I love the title because
[6:32] it's it's very evocative right there,
[6:35] right?
[6:36] So,
[6:37] just want to share initial thoughts and
[6:40] and we'll do this just sharing really
[6:43] from both of our perspectives. What do
[6:44] we mean by demons in love? What is it to
[6:49] be in relationship really as spiritual
[6:52] practice and path because I think that's
[6:54] that's really key here. So, we'll offer
[6:56] some reflections and also offer a
[6:59] process of feeding your demons based on
[7:01] what we share here.
[7:04] So, what is meant by demons in love?
[7:06] Just some initial
[7:09] reflections and perhaps some of you are
[7:12] new to this work of feeding your demons.
[7:14] And so, it's helpful always actually to
[7:16] look at what do we mean by demons?
[7:19] So, most generally our demons we could
[7:22] say are our patterns of reactivity,
[7:26] perhaps of judgment.
[7:30] In a way our demons point to our wounds,
[7:34] our insecurities,
[7:36] our points of tenderness.
[7:39] They could be the negative narratives we
[7:41] have about ourselves or others.
[7:45] Lama Tsultrim
[7:46] describes demons as anything that drains
[7:50] our energy. Anything that drains our
[7:52] energy. So, if you begin to consider
[7:55] here, as we're talking about demons, and
[7:57] particularly demons in relationship,
[8:01] what are those patterns of reactivity
[8:03] that arise for you?
[8:05] Where are those tender points that get
[8:09] poked at
[8:11] in relationship particularly?
[8:14] And I'll throw out here right from the
[8:16] start, Machig Labdrön's
[8:18] definition of demons, and
[8:21] Machig Labdrön is the 11th century
[8:24] Tibetan yogini
[8:26] whose work and teachings of Chöd, of
[8:30] severance, feeding your demons is really
[8:32] based on Lama Tsultrim's development of
[8:34] the process of feeding your demons,
[8:36] draws from this tradition of Machig
[8:39] Labdrön.
[8:40] So, back in the 11th century, Machig
[8:44] is said to have commented that demons,
[8:48] fundamentally, a demon is anything
[8:51] that obstructs the achievement of
[8:53] freedom.
[8:55] Demons are anything A demon is anything
[8:57] that obstructs the achievement of
[9:00] freedom.
[9:01] And here,
[9:03] I'd like to invite us into a more
[9:04] nuanced sense of
[9:06] um
[9:07] freedom, of course. Freedom is not just
[9:09] I get to do whatever I want. And clearly
[9:12] in relationship,
[9:13] >> [laughter]
[9:14] >> right?
[9:15] Uh it means not being able to do
[9:17] everything you want all the time.
[9:20] But I think she's pointing to a deeper
[9:21] sense of freedom, right? Is that which
[9:25] obstructs our capacity to really wake up
[9:28] to the fullness,
[9:30] the wholeness,
[9:32] the brilliance of who and what we are.
[9:35] And so, that's where Lama Tsultrim's
[9:37] definition of a demon of anything that
[9:39] obstructs you that drains our energy
[9:41] comes in, right? That that keeps us from
[9:44] showing up in that fullness, the full
[9:47] brilliance
[9:50] of our true nature.
[9:53] So, I wonder Peter maybe you'd share a
[9:55] little bit about you know this idea of
[9:57] demons and love and how what it
[10:00] what is it about demons in relationship
[10:02] and being in relationship that you think
[10:04] is actually kind of brings something
[10:06] more to the fore I think about our
[10:08] understanding of demons.
[10:10] >> You know, as you were speaking I
[10:14] this this is maybe
[10:16] slightly even a little before that is
[10:18] just this this this there's a basic
[10:21] assumption or a point of departure that
[10:24] I think we are
[10:27] taking for granted and skipping over but
[10:29] you know,
[10:30] with good reason because mostly people
[10:33] are here and interested because they are
[10:35] already on the path and doing the work
[10:37] and wanting to do the work. But there's
[10:38] an assumption of
[10:41] um
[10:44] a willingness
[10:46] of looking at shadow a kind of an
[10:49] approach where it becomes
[10:52] not all important but it becomes
[10:54] important to have awareness about our
[10:58] own
[11:00] neuroses and our own shadow rather than
[11:03] just for example just blaming it on the
[11:04] other person which which is maybe you
[11:07] know,
[11:09] easier and I think there's also
[11:11] we can maybe talk about it a little more
[11:12] later but a little bit of there's a
[11:14] difference between
[11:16] newer relationships and long-term
[11:18] relationships, you know, and I think
[11:21] with serious newer relationships people
[11:23] are always aspiring to long-term
[11:25] relationships so it's equally
[11:27] uh relevant and important but what I
[11:30] mean by that is that
[11:31] you know, there's
[11:34] if you want to enter into the path
[11:38] of spiritual practice through
[11:39] relationship,
[11:41] you have to start at some point. There
[11:44] has to be the step of
[11:47] willingness to take responsibility
[11:51] and to be open to viewing and seeing
[11:55] your own
[11:57] neuroses, your own issues, your own
[11:59] demons, and how they impact
[12:03] the relationship and how they impact the
[12:05] other person.
[12:06] And so,
[12:08] I think that's that's an important part
[12:10] and that
[12:12] and why? Because we want to have a
[12:14] better relationship, but also because we
[12:16] want to
[12:18] be free, right? Like Maciek says.
[12:20] >> Mhm.
[12:21] >> Um
[12:22] we we want to be free and even if we
[12:25] were not in a relationship, we would
[12:26] still be practicing.
[12:29] And now we say but we are in a
[12:31] relationship or we want to be in a
[12:32] relationship. And so, how do we practice
[12:35] this in relationship with each other?
[12:37] And you can also practice this in
[12:39] relationship just with regards to
[12:41] relationship to yourself.
[12:43] Because
[12:45] and maybe this is is is something that
[12:47] we can say a little bit about, but I
[12:48] don't want to go dive deep into now. But
[12:50] Maciek's a core idea of of Maciek is
[12:54] that the core demon actually is ego
[12:56] clinging itself is is this
[12:59] um
[13:00] fixation
[13:02] to the all-important
[13:05] central self from which we perceive and
[13:07] experience everything. And our
[13:10] our almost uh
[13:15] you know, almost
[13:17] inborn tendency to to contract around
[13:20] the self and how that becomes an
[13:22] obstacle in in terms of attaining
[13:25] freedom in our lives and of course in a
[13:27] relationship as well.
[13:32] >> Yeah, so I think one thing you're
[13:34] pointing to, and I think this is the
[13:36] potency of looking at our demons, not
[13:39] just for ourselves, but in relationship,
[13:41] is that the other person
[13:44] becomes a kind of mirror to us.
[13:47] And
[13:48] in both beautiful ways, right? When we
[13:51] first fall in love with someone or come
[13:54] This doesn't necessarily have to be only
[13:56] in intimate relationships, but also deep
[13:58] friendships.
[13:59] There's a a drawing close that happens
[14:01] because we see something mirrored in the
[14:04] other person that's really beautiful.
[14:06] They enjoy
[14:09] who we are. They enjoy the way we look,
[14:12] or the way we act, or what we love to
[14:14] do. They also love to do. And so, that
[14:16] mirroring quality
[14:19] um brings us It's It's joyful, right?
[14:21] It's inspiring. We feel alive. We feel
[14:24] good about ourselves in relationship
[14:26] because that mirror is reflecting some
[14:29] of our best qualities, right?
[14:33] And of course, like all good mirrors,
[14:35] they don't just mirror the wonderful and
[14:39] the beautiful and the the ways that we
[14:42] are uh showing up in our best selves,
[14:46] but ultimately in relationship, and this
[14:48] is I think the deeper we go into
[14:50] relationship,
[14:52] those mirrors also reflect to us parts
[14:55] of ourselves that we might not want to
[14:58] see so much, or that in
[15:02] a day-to-day shorter-term relationships,
[15:04] we can avoid.
[15:06] Right? We can
[15:08] you know, it's not working out, so we
[15:09] leave. We go somewhere else. We
[15:12] It's a short interaction, and and we
[15:14] move on.
[15:15] But the beauty, the invitation, I think,
[15:17] in relationship, and specifically when
[15:19] we're looking at demons within and
[15:21] demons in love
[15:24] is that we are entering consciously into
[15:26] relationship as a form
[15:29] of seeing more. Relationship as a form
[15:32] of of a path of awareness of greater
[15:34] awareness.
[15:35] >> Yeah.
[15:37] You know, this thing I said about being
[15:39] in relationship with ourselves, even if
[15:41] we were not in relationship. Well, we
[15:43] remain in relationship with ourselves
[15:45] and our own neuroses and our own path of
[15:48] liberation.
[15:50] Even in relationship, but the difference
[15:52] is we being witnessed in that.
[15:56] And
[15:57] there's sparks between in in in our
[15:59] interactions.
[16:01] Those triggers
[16:03] get triggered and that's almost
[16:07] guaranteed if we're in relationship,
[16:09] right? Those triggers are are going to
[16:11] be uh triggered.
[16:13] Um and so we are being witnessed in in
[16:18] our how we show up. So, like Shalotta
[16:21] said, there's no avoidance.
[16:23] In in a in a in a a a deep relationship,
[16:26] we are going to be seen.
[16:29] Um and not not seen for who we really
[16:32] are, but seen for the patterning that
[16:35] that are really deeply ingrained in us.
[16:38] Our underlying patterns are going to
[16:40] emerge and
[16:43] we and the other person are going to be
[16:46] aware of those. And if they neurotic or
[16:49] to the extent that they are neurotic,
[16:51] it's the other person is going to be
[16:52] painfully aware of those.
[16:54] And to the extent to which we are
[16:57] committed
[16:59] to practicing mindfulness and
[17:01] self-awareness, we ourselves are going
[17:04] to be painfully aware of those. And
[17:07] maybe I should just insert here a little
[17:09] thing. Again, I'm making an assumption
[17:11] or maybe it's an encouragement here, but
[17:14] if we are not practicing self-awareness
[17:17] and mindfulness about our own stuff, you
[17:20] can see how problematic that gets
[17:22] because the other person has to put up
[17:24] with our neurosis without us taking
[17:27] responsibility for it or without us
[17:30] practicing or being committed to being
[17:33] aware and owning when we act in neurotic
[17:37] ways.
[17:38] Let's say we act in neurotic ways, but
[17:40] we are
[17:42] you know,
[17:43] self-righteously
[17:45] forging ahead without any awareness that
[17:48] this is
[17:50] neurosis, that this is a pattern and not
[17:53] willing to bring awareness to that
[17:55] pattern. The other person has to witness
[17:57] the pattern and witness the lack of
[17:59] awareness around the pattern.
[18:01] Which is which is um which is a much
[18:04] more unpleasant thing because
[18:06] there's not a lot of hope
[18:09] for transformation or you know, it makes
[18:12] us feel safe when the other person owns,
[18:17] sees, and owns their stuff.
[18:21] When they see and own it, it makes us
[18:24] feel safer because it makes us feel
[18:27] like, ah, this person is on the path.
[18:30] They have the ability to see their own
[18:33] stuff and to own it.
[18:35] And that makes me feel like, oh, I I
[18:37] have to live with it, but I don't have
[18:39] to fix it.
[18:41] And that's another little side track
[18:43] like the idea, you know, we can
[18:46] it's like the the the old metaphor of
[18:49] rocks on the bottom of a of the river
[18:52] who that rubs against each other and
[18:55] they become smoother as a result.
[18:57] Beautifully smooth even.
[18:59] And so, um that's that's how it works,
[19:04] right? But if we are not if we are if we
[19:08] don't have some kind of
[19:10] suppleness or willingness
[19:14] to become more smooth, then it's very
[19:17] unpleasant for the other person. It
[19:19] could be very unpleasant for the other
[19:20] person.
[19:21] >> Mhm.
[19:22] Well, I think the territory we're
[19:24] getting into here, maybe we can just
[19:26] formally sort of articulate this, is a
[19:28] vision of relationship
[19:31] as spiritual practice.
[19:34] Relationship as a spiritual path.
[19:37] And it's exact What is a spiritual path?
[19:39] Is a commitment to wake up.
[19:42] A commitment to actually
[19:44] yeah, wake up to our wholeness, wake up
[19:48] to truth, to reality, the nature of all
[19:51] things, right? Dharma. Dharma meaning
[19:54] the nature of all things.
[19:56] So, what what the Buddha taught was how
[19:58] do we awaken to the nature of all
[20:00] things?
[20:01] So, within the context of relationship,
[20:03] if we want to say that relationship
[20:06] is a spiritual path, how does this
[20:09] particular configuration
[20:11] of close and perhaps intimate
[20:13] relationship become itself a pathway
[20:18] through which we wake up?
[20:20] And here we're talking about waking up
[20:22] to our own nature,
[20:25] including and particularly in the
[20:27] context of demons in love,
[20:30] waking up to what we don't see.
[20:34] Our demons are in a way our blind spots.
[20:38] It's what we're where we don't Those
[20:40] aspects of our behavior, of our
[20:42] thinking, that don't have clarity within
[20:45] them, that don't have awareness within
[20:47] them.
[20:48] And so, one aspect, you know, there are
[20:50] there a number of aspects of that I
[20:52] think make a a relationship a spiritual
[20:54] path or practice, but one aspect that's
[20:56] I'm reminded of here as you're talking,
[20:58] Peter, is
[21:00] really a commitment to honesty.
[21:04] And I think honesty has many levels.
[21:06] There's sort of outer honesty that we
[21:08] all know about, which is like don't tell
[21:10] a lie, right? So, yes, a fundamental,
[21:13] you know, agreement in relationship with
[21:14] don't lying to each other. But, that's a
[21:17] very, um,
[21:19] I think superficial understanding.
[21:21] Very basic understanding of honesty. I
[21:24] think honesty is itself a kind of
[21:26] practice.
[21:28] What is true self-honesty?
[21:31] Are we really understanding ourselves
[21:33] properly? Are we looking? Are we being
[21:36] honest with ourselves about why we
[21:38] behave the way we do?
[21:40] Are we being honest about the subtle,
[21:44] perhaps nuanced judgments that creep in?
[21:48] And particularly with a partner, right?
[21:49] Because we see, as Peter said, we are
[21:52] witness to their
[21:54] encumbered patterns, which generally
[21:56] trigger our encumbered patterns.
[21:58] >> the thing.
[21:59] >> [laughter]
[21:59] >> It's like little puzzle puzzle pieces.
[22:02] >> And so, can we bring awareness? You
[22:05] know, for me, I'll just take it,
[22:07] personally right now, it's like
[22:09] can I see where a judgment comes up? Oh,
[22:11] see, there he goes again. Or why doesn't
[22:13] he Why doesn't he da da da da da? Or uh,
[22:16] see, now I have to put up with
[22:19] Right? And can I catch myself? The
[22:21] practice here
[22:23] is can I actually bring clarity to all
[22:26] those subtle movements that happen
[22:29] within me in terms of my own mind,
[22:32] thoughts, stories, narratives, emotions,
[22:36] reactivities,
[22:38] where do I close down?
[22:40] Where do I
[22:42] just label something as a Oh, there's
[22:45] that pattern again.
[22:46] Right? I I close down from being fresh
[22:49] in the moment.
[22:51] So, I think there's a really amazing,
[22:53] beautiful invitation and opportunity,
[22:56] particularly in relationship, to
[23:00] rub those stones into honesty
[23:03] with ourselves.
[23:05] And you know, we've been together for
[23:07] over 25 years and there are aspects of
[23:09] who I am that Peter continues to point
[23:11] out to that I have not been aware of.
[23:14] Honestly.
[23:16] And you know, it's maybe I'll say one
[23:17] last thing here and
[23:19] is around
[23:21] avoidance and ignorance, right? As is
[23:24] said of the poisons, ignorance is the
[23:26] most difficult.
[23:28] Because you don't see what you don't
[23:30] see.
[23:31] You don't see what you don't see. It's
[23:34] pretty easy to see what you grasp to.
[23:37] It's very easy to see where you have
[23:39] anger and aversion because anger is kind
[23:41] of loud.
[23:43] But ignorance
[23:44] very difficult to see because part of
[23:47] its way of
[23:49] being in the world
[23:52] is to avoid.
[23:53] Is not to want to see.
[23:55] So how do I come to see what I don't
[23:58] want to see?
[24:00] And this is where the partner actually
[24:02] becomes such an ally and such a teacher.
[24:06] Right? In I would say this path of
[24:08] spiritual
[24:10] of relationship, a spiritual path to
[24:12] recognize that the other person can be a
[24:15] profound teacher to us.
[24:19] >> You know what? Just as you were speaking
[24:22] uh maybe and maybe this is something
[24:24] that would have belonged in the
[24:25] beginning of this this
[24:28] sharing is the beauty of relationship.
[24:31] What is relationship really? We didn't
[24:33] really define that because it's kind of
[24:35] speaks for itself, but
[24:37] you know, someone
[24:39] is really signing up to witness us
[24:43] over a long period of time, for a
[24:46] lifetime to to to be with us.
[24:50] Um so it's not only putting up with us,
[24:52] you know, of course we talking about
[24:53] demons here, so we tend to talk about
[24:55] the neurotic aspects, but the beauty of
[24:57] it is that we as we move through this
[25:02] grand
[25:04] and messy adventure of being alive in
[25:08] this
[25:10] three-dimensional dualistic space, we
[25:13] are being witnessed.
[25:17] So, it there's a there's a there's a
[25:22] a
[25:23] fine, like a like a a very deep, very
[25:28] touching, I almost want to say
[25:30] excruciating, but that sounds
[25:31] unpleasant, but you know what I'm
[25:34] looking for the word that's the opposite
[25:35] of that, but has that same intensity of
[25:38] being witnessed and moving through this
[25:41] together. It brings meaning.
[25:43] And it makes things matter.
[25:46] I'm not saying this cannot happen when
[25:48] you are not in relationship.
[25:51] When we're not in relationship, we have
[25:53] that relationship with ourselves because
[25:55] especially if we have a kind of
[25:57] meta-awareness really, where we are
[25:58] aware of being aware and aware of moving
[26:00] through our lives, then we we are in
[26:02] relationship to the self in that way.
[26:05] And I think that is the spiritual
[26:06] journey for each of us, like I said
[26:09] earlier. But here we are doing that
[26:11] together. So, there's someone witnessing
[26:13] us not only going through life, but also
[26:16] working through our things and so forth.
[26:18] So, there's something really beautiful
[26:20] and intimate. That excruciating thing,
[26:22] maybe it's just real, like
[26:25] really deep intimacy.
[26:27] That I was looking for, the word I was
[26:29] looking for. But there's so there's
[26:31] there's also
[26:32] the beauty of that, of that partnership,
[26:35] of that being witnessed, and that makes
[26:37] meaning in itself of having the
[26:40] experience, right?
[26:42] Um and then the other aspect of it is
[26:44] that I that I realized that we we we
[26:47] sort of implying, but not speaking to
[26:49] directly is is the power dynamic and the
[26:53] equalness and the mutual respect.
[26:56] We
[26:58] are willing to look at our own stuff
[27:00] because we are committed to our own
[27:02] path, our own spiritual path, our own
[27:04] path of awakening, our own path of
[27:07] liberation. But we are also
[27:10] willing
[27:11] and open to listening and we are also
[27:14] willing and open to own our own stuff
[27:17] because we respect the other person
[27:21] as equal partners on the journey.
[27:24] And so we are
[27:26] attuned
[27:28] to to try to be committed
[27:31] to distinguish between our own stuff and
[27:34] their stuff
[27:37] with precision because we respect them.
[27:40] And that's the thing with power and
[27:42] power dynamics and so forth. I saw there
[27:43] was a comment about Machik's life and
[27:45] being in a group of people. You have to
[27:47] care what those other people think of
[27:49] you or do. And I don't mean like we
[27:51] become
[27:52] constricted by by having, you know,
[27:56] um
[27:57] by being popular or something like that.
[27:59] I I just mean like if if we are
[28:02] sometimes being in a power position in
[28:04] an unequal power position insulates us
[28:07] from feedback.
[28:09] We can act however we want and we not
[28:11] getting feedback that that that is
[28:14] rubbing the stone. We we our stone is
[28:17] not being rubbed because we are not open
[28:19] to feedback because we are insulated in
[28:20] our power bubble. We don't care what
[28:23] they think.
[28:24] And so if
[28:25] in a relationship I think it is
[28:29] important and essential to have that
[28:31] power balance where you have an equal
[28:35] commitment and respect.
[28:37] And if you if you don't have that then
[28:39] you can work on on balancing
[28:42] balancing that and see what, you know,
[28:45] and maybe that's part of the the
[28:47] particular demon
[28:49] uh of your love, you know, is is is to
[28:52] to work on that
[28:54] on that balancing act. You know, age
[28:57] difference could could could come into
[28:59] play, for example, in that way or just
[29:01] personality. So.
[29:03] >> Yeah, I just want to highlight this We
[29:06] We talked a bit about demons and maybe a
[29:08] little bit less about the love part and
[29:10] just to
[29:12] uh
[29:13] underscore and highlight that. I think
[29:15] that as you said, Peter, the potency of
[29:19] relationship and working with our demons
[29:21] in relationship is the nature of the
[29:24] container.
[29:26] It has, you know, you could say like in
[29:28] a therapeutic relationship this
[29:30] hopefully a sort of neutral more neutral
[29:32] container but supportive container. But
[29:34] the beauty in a
[29:36] relationship in this way that we're
[29:38] talking about of deep deep friendship or
[29:40] even intimacy partnership
[29:43] is
[29:44] that there's love.
[29:46] It's held by love that all of the work
[29:49] we do and that rubbing of the the river
[29:52] stones of our the grist in the mill of
[29:55] awakening is held within a profound
[29:58] container, a deep container of love.
[30:02] And in that way, you know, when we view
[30:04] the other person as teacher, I was
[30:07] saying, it's also, I would say, from a
[30:10] dharmic perspective
[30:12] spiritual perspective we are seeing the
[30:16] other person in their Buddha nature,
[30:18] fundamentally.
[30:20] We're willing to in that mirroring see
[30:24] them as
[30:26] ultimately awake as an awakened being
[30:29] as having brilliant sanity
[30:32] having that primordial wakefulness
[30:36] that we practice in our practices to
[30:38] have that vision we have for all beings,
[30:40] right? All beings as Buddhas.
[30:43] The Pema Chödrön has a great piece on,
[30:45] you know, seeing all beings as Buddhas
[30:47] and she's like, "Well, sometimes it's
[30:49] grumpy Buddha or sometimes it's like
[30:51] Buddha cutting you off in traffic or,
[30:53] you know, it doesn't mean that there's
[30:55] always smoothness."
[30:57] And I think in relationship it's that
[30:59] like, "Oh,
[31:01] I'm I'm holding that view of you
[31:03] fundamentally.
[31:05] And how precious, how precious that is.
[31:07] >> How precious.
[31:08] >> And that's the ground that we then
[31:10] engage all of our demons in the work and
[31:12] the honesty and the grist in the mill
[31:14] and
[31:15] >> It becomes tremendously supportive
[31:18] of each other and of self, right?
[31:21] Because
[31:22] we we are by viewing that person, we are
[31:26] we are supporting them
[31:29] in their path and to see themselves like
[31:31] that.
[31:33] And in in seeing them like that, we are
[31:35] also
[31:37] supporting our own journey
[31:40] to awakening or to liberation, to see
[31:42] our own nature
[31:44] and to not just
[31:45] we we we we lift each other up
[31:50] instead of just getting preoccupied with
[31:52] our own neuroses and through in a
[31:54] downward spiral
[31:56] of woe is me, you know. Um
[32:00] we we lift each other up. We make each
[32:02] other better
[32:05] to put it in simple terms.
[32:07] Um and we support each other in
[32:08] practice, but really and this is
[32:10] something we did in our wedding vows um
[32:13] and and and I don't I don't I don't
[32:14] think this is this is conventional
[32:16] particularly or common, but
[32:19] was a commitment to our own
[32:22] path and awakening. It sounds like that
[32:24] may do this and and we had to be open to
[32:27] the and we still have to be open to the
[32:29] possibility that it may lead like this.
[32:31] But to stay true
[32:33] to our own
[32:35] awakening
[32:37] is really the commitment. But then if we
[32:39] walk that path together, then we support
[32:41] each other in that.
[32:43] That's the idea.
[32:45] But But But otherwise, we can stop
[32:47] growing and just reify
[32:50] the relationship itself and thinking
[32:52] that we're working towards maintaining
[32:54] the relationship as an end in itself.
[32:58] And then it can become contracted and it
[33:00] can become,
[33:01] you know, um stale.
[33:04] But the fact that we are actually
[33:07] ever committing
[33:10] and ever remaining committed to our own
[33:13] path of awakening, our own which is the
[33:15] path of radical honesty,
[33:18] right? With ourselves and with each
[33:21] other.
[33:22] As long as we remain committed, there's
[33:24] a kind of a freshness,
[33:26] right?
[33:27] In the relationship because the
[33:28] relationship, being in relationship is
[33:30] not an end in itself. That's That's
[33:33] That's a means to an end.
[33:37] You know, the partnership is is not the
[33:39] end in itself. The partnership is a a
[33:43] supportive,
[33:44] wonderful, magical
[33:47] tool and experience towards
[33:50] our own journey of understanding and
[33:54] liberation. And to cut through, to get
[33:56] back to Maciek,
[33:58] to cut through this incessant
[34:00] preoccupation with the self.
[34:03] This is very very important in Maciek's
[34:06] work and very subtle
[34:09] in reality.
[34:10] It's very simple and very subtle.
[34:13] Because the way this reality, dualistic
[34:17] real uh perception is set up,
[34:20] it keeps reifying the self as the
[34:24] platform of perception. We keep It keeps
[34:28] establishing the self
[34:31] in basic perception of phenomena as
[34:33] being out there, we are establishing the
[34:36] self that is perceiving it as out there.
[34:39] And that dynamic is what Machik says is
[34:42] really the tricky part, but it's also
[34:44] the key part. She says it's the key
[34:47] thing to cut through, to realize.
[34:49] I'm saying it's the tricky part because
[34:51] it's very subtle, because everything we
[34:53] do, even being in relationship, it's two
[34:56] selves being in relationship. So, to
[34:59] work at the subtlety
[35:01] of the self and the relationship with
[35:03] the self
[35:04] and to rest in the vast ground of being
[35:08] and then come back and be in
[35:10] relationship. You're not really coming
[35:11] back, of course. You're always in the
[35:13] nature of mind. You're always in the
[35:14] ground of being. But to remind each
[35:16] other that we are resting there together
[35:19] and to not get overly entangled in our
[35:22] self-importance. That's the other thing
[35:24] here. Again, subtle, but
[35:27] our relationships should should support
[35:30] us to not get overly entangled within
[35:34] the problems
[35:36] that we take so seriously. Like we
[35:39] you know, by taking ourselves so
[35:40] seriously.
[35:42] And then maybe I'll just say one last
[35:43] thing here is that
[35:45] in relationship, within the subtlety,
[35:48] if you followed me all the way in here,
[35:51] um and maybe even if you didn't, there's
[35:54] there's there's this thing that happens
[35:56] in relationship where we create problems
[36:00] where there are none.
[36:04] But sometimes
[36:06] we also deny problems where there are
[36:08] indeed problems. And that's more common,
[36:11] I think, in in in shorter-term
[36:13] relationship because eventually we
[36:15] discover,
[36:16] you know, we project, we want the
[36:18] relationship to work, so we look past
[36:21] serious issues or problems
[36:23] that maybe in the long term will not
[36:25] work.
[36:26] So, we we keep denying because we don't
[36:28] want to see that. We don't want to
[36:29] believe it. But, the opposite is also
[36:31] true. Sometimes we get we contract
[36:34] around we have fears around things in
[36:36] the relationship that we think may end
[36:38] the relationship or maybe
[36:40] uh insurmountable. But, it's okay.
[36:44] They're not really. Because if we can be
[36:46] together and talk about those things,
[36:48] then they like anything else
[36:51] they're they're
[36:53] their solidity
[36:56] starts to become more translucent.
[37:02] More rainbow-like.
[37:03] Which is really the nature
[37:05] of all phenomena.
[37:09] >> So, want to do two things. First is I
[37:12] want to
[37:13] just reaching over here. Make sure you
[37:15] all know about our book Sky Mind, the
[37:18] radical path of open awareness. And this
[37:21] is our uh writings on reflections on
[37:25] Machig Labdrön's work and her source
[37:28] text. Some of her There are only a few
[37:31] source texts that really go back to her
[37:33] original teachings. And so, um we wrote
[37:36] this. It came out in May through
[37:38] Shambhala Publications. And it's a
[37:40] hopefully an inspiring journey with
[37:43] Machig's uh nature of mind teachings and
[37:45] how we can apply them into our everyday
[37:47] lives.
[37:48] We'll also be doing a 9-month course.
[37:51] It's called the year-long. It's really 9
[37:53] months next March through December on
[37:56] Sky Mind and Machig's teachings,
[37:58] nature of mind practice, open awareness
[38:01] practice, and really living this in our
[38:03] everyday life. There is a whole chapter
[38:06] here on honesty and radical honesty and
[38:08] what that looks like in our lives. So,
[38:11] uh some of what we've been talking about
[38:13] today will be familiar to you. But,
[38:15] please consider joining us.
[38:17] Um and I also want to maybe shift now.
[38:20] Uh thanks for the notes in the chat, by
[38:22] the way, and wonderful Michelle. Uh uh
[38:25] Glad you had a chance to be with the
[38:27] book.
[38:28] Um
[38:30] turn to feeding your demons, because
[38:31] feeding your demons is, of course, also
[38:34] inspired that process that Lama Tsultrim
[38:37] developed, inspired by Machig's
[38:39] teachings on che and on severance and is
[38:43] a very potent practice to bring into
[38:47] relationships, both to bring awareness
[38:49] to our demons and then to work with
[38:51] them. To work with them personally and
[38:54] in the context of relationship, feeding
[38:56] your demons can be an amazing tool. And
[38:59] so, in the retreat, the two It's a
[39:01] two-day retreat in November, two
[39:03] different Sundays that we'll also be
[39:05] sharing with Lama Tsultrim. Uh we'll be
[39:07] looking at feeding your demons and how
[39:09] to work with it in relationship. So, we
[39:12] wanted to give you just a little taste
[39:14] of feeding your demons. Some of you
[39:15] might already be familiar with this
[39:17] practice. Those of you not, you're in
[39:19] for hopefully a wonderful surprise. We
[39:22] don't have a lot of time left, um but
[39:25] I'd like to offer a short practice. Uh
[39:29] and so, what I'll invite you to do is to
[39:33] find a way that you can sit in two
[39:36] seats. So, have two cushions or if
[39:39] you're two chairs or if you're on a
[39:41] couch that you can switch back and
[39:43] forth, so that imagine you're sitting in
[39:46] my seat and then switching and you would
[39:48] sit in Peter's seat looking back at
[39:50] yourself. Some kind of set up like that.
[39:53] >> And it works better if you actually
[39:54] switch. That that that that may sound a
[39:57] little If you If you're not familiar
[39:58] with the process, that may sound a
[40:00] little um
[40:01] contrived, but it really does work.
[40:04] >> And I'd also like to invite you to think
[40:07] about what you'd like to work with in
[40:09] the process. And here
[40:11] perhaps there's a particular fear
[40:14] particular obstacle in terms of
[40:17] relationship that you'd like to that's
[40:19] up for you that perhaps has come up more
[40:21] as we've been talking or that you're
[40:23] working with currently in your life.
[40:25] Uh the other person is never the demon.
[40:29] Our own feeling about them or what this
[40:32] it's triggered within our own experience
[40:35] is what we would work with. So, if
[40:37] there's an an irritation or a judgment
[40:39] that I feel towards Peter, I don't work
[40:42] with Peter as the demon, but rather with
[40:44] my own sense of irritation or of
[40:47] judgment. I work with that that feeling
[40:50] that I have. It would be wonderful.
[40:52] Sometimes it's all just Peter and if he
[40:54] would change, everything would be
[40:55] wonderful, right? But um
[40:58] uh so
[40:59] >> actually help, but
[41:01] >> [laughter]
[41:02] >> these patterns are so deeply ingrained
[41:04] in all of us. Um
[41:06] and and that's okay, too. We have to
[41:07] have self-compassion, too, right? Um
[41:11] for ourselves
[41:13] and our patterns.
[41:15] >> So, I'm going to lead the practice. Do
[41:17] you want to say goodbye to folks?
[41:19] >> Yes. It was wonderful to be with you.
[41:21] I'm going to go through the practice
[41:22] right here around the corner. Um
[41:24] but I'm just you know, going to leave
[41:26] Shalini to do that.
[41:28] >> All right.
[41:31] So,
[41:33] I'm going to uh
[41:38] lead you, guide you.
[41:41] Just follow along. There's no right or
[41:43] wrong in this.
[41:45] Just follow the guidelines to the best
[41:47] of your
[41:48] ability.
[41:52] And Peter, I'm going to ask you if you
[41:53] can give me my phone so I can see what
[41:55] time it is. Sorry, can't see it on my
[41:58] computer right now.
[42:00] Um
[42:01] so
[42:03] find a good seat. Start in your first
[42:05] seat.
[42:08] And I'll invite you to close your eyes
[42:10] for this process.
[42:16] And we'll begin with some relaxation
[42:17] breaths.
[42:22] The first few breaths, just breathe
[42:24] deeply, feeling into your body.
[42:29] Noticing where perhaps you're holding
[42:30] any tensions in your body.
[42:34] Breathing in,
[42:36] bring awareness to those tensions.
[42:43] Imagine that the breath is hooking onto
[42:45] these physical tensions, and then let
[42:48] those physical tensions ride out with
[42:50] the out breath.
[43:00] Now become aware of any
[43:02] emotional tensions you might be feeling.
[43:06] Noticing where you hold them in your
[43:08] body.
[43:11] Breathing in,
[43:13] let the breath go to these emotional
[43:16] tensions, hook onto them.
[43:21] And as you breathe out, let these
[43:23] emotional tensions release
[43:27] on the out breath.
[43:36] Just letting them go for now.
[43:47] Finally breathing in again, noticing any
[43:51] mental tensions, worries,
[43:53] recurring thoughts.
[43:56] Breathing in,
[43:58] let the breath hook onto those mental
[44:00] tensions,
[44:02] and gently let them ride out with the
[44:04] exhale.
[44:06] Just letting them go for now.
[44:17] We'll begin by raising our motivation
[44:19] for this practice together.
[44:22] That it may be of benefit to ourselves.
[44:27] And to others.
[44:37] Now I invite you to bring into your
[44:39] awareness the particular demon or issue
[44:43] that you'd like to work with in this
[44:45] session.
[44:47] So this could be a narrative that's not
[44:49] helpful, a particular fear,
[44:53] obstacle, encumbrance.
[44:59] And just feel into it, evoke it right
[45:02] now. Reconnect with this issue,
[45:04] this challenge.
[45:07] It might help to recall a recent
[45:09] situation in which this came up most
[45:11] strongly.
[45:14] Something that happened or a
[45:15] conversation that was difficult.
[45:19] So you're just tapping back into this
[45:21] issue.
[45:26] Really feel it.
[45:30] Feel it in your body.
[45:38] And imagine this feeling were located
[45:40] somewhere in your body.
[45:44] Where would that be?
[45:46] Where is it held most strongly in your
[45:48] physical body?
[46:00] Now imagine
[46:03] in this part of your body, this issue,
[46:05] if it had a shape.
[46:07] What kind of shape
[46:09] would it have?
[46:11] What kind of shape does this feeling
[46:13] have?
[46:15] Just imagine.
[46:24] What's its What is it made of?
[46:26] What's its material
[46:29] and its texture?
[46:38] And [snorts] imagine it had a color or
[46:40] colors, what color would it be?
[46:43] What colors does it have?
[46:51] And what's its temperature?
[46:59] Now, intensify these feelings, these
[47:01] characteristics in your body.
[47:10] And now, project this
[47:13] feeling with its if this shape with its
[47:16] consistency and colors and temperature,
[47:18] project it out in front of you.
[47:22] As though it were leaving your body and
[47:24] taking shape in front of you
[47:27] as a being, as an animate
[47:30] being.
[47:34] A being with a head,
[47:37] face,
[47:39] arms, legs.
[47:49] Imagine you see this being
[47:54] in front of you.
[47:58] Let's take a closer look at it.
[48:01] How large is it? What's its size?
[48:12] What color or colors do you see on it?
[48:24] What is the surface of its skin-like?
[48:37] What is its density?
[48:48] Does this being have a gender?
[48:59] If there were sounds associated with
[49:02] this being, what kind of sounds might it
[49:04] make?
[49:14] And if there were smells, what kind of
[49:16] smells might there be?
[49:26] Now, take a look
[49:27] at the eyes. Look into the eyes of this
[49:30] being.
[49:32] What is the look in its eyes?
[49:48] And what is its emotional state?
[50:01] What else do you notice about its
[50:03] overall character?
[50:05] It's overall personality.
[50:19] And now notice something about this
[50:21] being you have not yet noticed.
[50:34] You're going to ask this being a few
[50:36] questions. Just repeat them, if
[50:39] possible, out loud after me.
[50:42] And don't wait for a response.
[50:45] What do you want?
[50:49] What do you really need?
[50:55] How will you feel
[50:58] when you get what you really need?
[51:06] Now keep your eyes closed as much as
[51:08] possible and move to the other seat so
[51:11] that you're facing your original seat.
[51:23] And as [clears throat] you come into
[51:24] this new seat,
[51:27] the seat of the being, of the demon,
[51:30] enter the body of this being.
[51:34] Become this being.
[51:40] And really let yourself feel
[51:43] what it's like to be in this body, in
[51:46] this shape
[51:49] and this form.
[52:01] How does it feel
[52:03] to be in the body of this being?
[52:16] >> [snorts]
[52:16] >> And in your mind's eye, look across and
[52:18] see your original self sitting opposite
[52:20] you.
[52:21] What does that original self look like
[52:23] from this perspective?
[52:36] So now, speaking as the being,
[52:43] you're going to answer the questions
[52:44] that have been asked of you.
[52:50] What I want is
[53:12] What I really need is And this is the
[53:15] need beneath the want. What I really
[53:18] need is
[53:51] >> When I get what I really need, I will
[53:54] feel
[53:56] So as the being, imagine getting what
[53:59] you really need.
[54:03] How will that feel?
[54:05] I will feel
[54:24] Take note of this feeling.
[54:28] How the being will feel when it gets
[54:30] what it really needs.
[54:37] And now keeping your eyes closed, again
[54:39] move back to your original seat.
[54:55] Take a moment to come back into your own
[54:57] body.
[55:02] See the being across from you.
[55:10] And recall again, now in your own body,
[55:14] that feeling.
[55:17] The answer to the last question, the
[55:19] feeling that the being said it would
[55:21] have when it gets what it needs, what it
[55:23] really needs.
[55:26] Tap back into that feeling.
[55:29] The same feeling just here on your own
[55:31] cushion.
[55:43] >> And let this feeling
[55:46] pervade your entire body.
[55:52] As though your entire body were this
[55:55] feeling.
[56:09] Let your body dissolve into a nectar
[56:12] that has the quality of this feeling.
[56:23] Dissolve your body into a nectar that
[56:25] has the quality of this feeling.
[56:31] Notice the color of this nectar.
[56:35] And now let this nectar go over to the
[56:37] being across from you.
[56:39] And let the being take it in.
[56:42] However it can. However it will.
[56:47] You have an infinite supply of this
[56:50] nectar. And you can feed this being to
[56:53] complete satisfaction.
[57:02] Take your time here.
[57:04] Letting the nectar go over to the being
[57:07] and the being
[57:09] takes it in.
[57:12] However it can take it in.
[57:21] Feed the being to complete
[57:25] satisfaction.
[57:48] >> And as the being takes in the nectar,
[57:50] notice if and how it changes.
[58:12] Continue to feed the being until it is
[58:15] completely
[58:16] completely satisfied.
[58:31] If the being is still taking in the
[58:34] nectar,
[58:36] then imagine what it would look like if
[58:39] it were completely satisfied. If it's
[58:42] still taking in the nectar, imagine what
[58:44] it would look like if it were completely
[58:48] satisfied.
[59:00] And now that the being is completely
[59:01] satisfied, notice.
[59:05] Is anything left? Is there a being still
[59:08] present
[59:11] after the complete feeding?
[59:15] If there is,
[59:17] ask this being if it is your ally.
[59:32] >> If it says no or you're unsure or the
[59:37] being completely dissolved during the
[59:40] feeding
[59:41] then invite an ally to appear.
[59:47] Invite an ally to appear.
[1:00:06] And if it says yes, then you have an
[1:00:08] ally here.
[1:00:10] And for a moment
[1:00:13] let us just sit with the ally.
[1:00:20] See the ally in front of you.
[1:00:36] Feel the energy of the ally looking into
[1:00:39] its eyes.
[1:00:54] Let the ally dissolve into light.
[1:01:04] Let that light dissolve into you.
[1:01:17] And simply feel for a moment
[1:01:20] this energy of the ally
[1:01:24] completely integrated into your own
[1:01:26] body.
[1:01:40] And now let your own body dissolve.
[1:01:49] And rest.
[1:01:53] Rest in the space that remains.
[1:02:12] And slowly now bring your awareness back
[1:02:15] into your body.
[1:02:18] Feeling the warmth of your body.
[1:02:28] Returning to your breath in this present
[1:02:30] moment.
[1:02:34] And as you're ready, you can open your
[1:02:36] eyes.
[1:02:46] And now we can dedicate
[1:02:50] any goodness, any merit of this time
[1:02:52] together, of this practice.
[1:03:00] We dedicate this to the benefit of all
[1:03:02] beings
[1:03:04] everywhere.
[1:03:13] Thank you so much.
[1:03:15] Hope to see you. Those of you who know
[1:03:18] this process know that if we have a
[1:03:21] little more time, we engage with that
[1:03:23] ally, which is really the wisdom energy
[1:03:26] that's
[1:03:28] held or even stuck perhaps within the
[1:03:31] demon.
[1:03:32] And we get to engage more with the ally.
[1:03:34] So, if you join us in November,
[1:03:37] um you'll get
[1:03:38] the that other piece of the process as
[1:03:40] well. But I hope this gave you a taste.
[1:03:43] Thanks for being along for the ride.
[1:03:45] Um all the best wishing you
[1:03:48] a wonderful rest of your day or evening.
[1:03:52] Bye-bye.
[1:03:56] >> Thank you, Dorje Lopon Charlotte
[1:03:59] and Lopon Peter
[1:04:01] for sharing your wisdom and insights
[1:04:03] with us today.
[1:04:05] This is a subject really close to my
[1:04:07] heart and I really appreciate the
[1:04:09] richness
[1:04:11] and the nuance that you bring to it.
[1:04:14] Now, before we close, I'd like to share
[1:04:17] three upcoming opportunities to continue
[1:04:20] exploring and deepening your Dharma
[1:04:22] practice with Tara Mandala.
[1:04:26] First, for those who would like to
[1:04:28] explore today's themes more deeply,
[1:04:31] Charlotte and Peter will be joining Lama
[1:04:33] Tsultrim Allione for Demons in Love, How
[1:04:37] to Transform Relationship Challenges
[1:04:40] into Wisdom,
[1:04:41] a two-session online program on November
[1:04:44] 8th and 22nd.
[1:04:47] Together they will explore how Feeding
[1:04:50] Your Demons practice can help us meet
[1:04:52] relational challenges with greater
[1:04:55] awareness,
[1:04:56] compassion, and understanding.
[1:04:59] And beginning October 30th, What the
[1:05:02] Buddha Taught with Amelia Hall and
[1:05:05] Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo
[1:05:07] offers an exploration of the Buddha's
[1:05:10] foundational teachings,
[1:05:12] including the Eightfold Path
[1:05:15] and how we can work with suffering and
[1:05:17] cultivate liberation in our everyday
[1:05:19] lives.
[1:05:21] This is the second course in our
[1:05:23] year-long Heart of Buddhism program.
[1:05:27] And on December 5th and 6th Lama
[1:05:30] Tsultrim will offer Machig Labdrön's
[1:05:32] longevity sadhana.
[1:05:35] This precious practice brings together
[1:05:37] Guru Yoga, mantra, breath, and
[1:05:41] visualization to support vitality,
[1:05:44] resilience,
[1:05:45] and connection with the wisdom of Machig
[1:05:47] Labdrön's lineage.
[1:05:50] You'll find links to all three programs
[1:05:53] in the description below
[1:05:55] in the chat.
[1:05:56] And we warmly invite you to explore
[1:05:58] whichever teachings speak to you.
[1:06:02] Thank you to everyone who has joined us
[1:06:04] from around the world.
[1:06:06] And may we continue to bring compassion
[1:06:09] and awareness to our relationships,
[1:06:12] our practice,
[1:06:13] and our daily lives.
[1:06:15] We hope to see you at the next Lama Live
[1:06:18] with Lama Tsultrim on November 29th.
[1:06:22] Till then,
[1:06:23] goodbye.
[1:06:28] >> [music]
[1:06:33] [singing]
[1:06:40] [music]
[1:06:43] [singing]
[1:06:47] [music]
[1:06:52] [music]
[1:06:55] [singing]
[1:07:01] [music]
[1:07:06] [music]
[1:07:09] >> tārāya ture
[1:07:13] Mangalam
[1:07:15] shri [music] mahapani swaha
