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Inspiration

Chronic Pain Recovery: Why Doing Less Can Help You Heal

Laura Haraka
Laura Haraka
Oct 27, 2026
8 min di lettura

Da Laura Haraka at Feel to Heal Wellness

Guarda · 7

Days after giving birth to her first child, Joanne Lee Smith lay on her own sofa while a midwife examined the stitched tear from the delivery. The midwife made a remark that Smith still couldn't shake, and the comment seemed to open a door. What followed, by her own account, was a long stretch of itching, burning and pelvic pain that would shape the next sixteen years of her life. Smith is a qualified nurse, professional coach and mentor, and in conversation with Laura Haraka on the Beyond the Pelvis podcast she traces how that pain sat alongside neck pain, fibromyalgia, migraines and a relentless habit of pushing through: work, motherhood and, eventually, ultra-marathon running. Her recovery came through the mind-body connection, the Three Principles approach and the work of Dr. John Sarno, and through a deceptively simple practice of writing down what she was feeling. This article unpacks that arc, and why the lesson she draws is less about finding the perfect treatment than about how exhausting the search for one can become.

Lettura · 7 sezioni

Where does a chronic pain story actually begin?

Smith is clear that her story didn't start with the birth. Looking back, she describes a childhood of recurring symptoms that came and went rather than settling in. She had growing pains bad enough that she would put cold flannels on her legs at night. Her father, an Olympic gymnast, had a firm position on the subject (Beyond the Pelvis, 2:31 in the episode): "there's no such thing as growing pains." She remembers stomach pains severe enough that her mother would call an ambulance, episodes that doctors usually attributed to constipation. She had asthma attacks that sometimes kept her in hospital for up to a week on nebulizers and steroids. And from around age eleven she developed migraines with visual aura, a flicker in the middle of a lesson that would become a headache.

None of this, on its own, looks like the portrait of a chronic condition. That is part of the point. Symptoms that arrive in episodes, get treated and then recede are easy to file away as separate events. Smith only began to see them as a pattern much later, when she started learning about what she calls "neuroplastic symptoms" and looked back across her life.

What happened in the year after the birth?

The timeline Smith lays out is a dense one. Her grandparents both died within about ten weeks of each other. Her grandmother, with whom she was very close, had been living with cancer throughout her pregnancy and died the week before Smith's son was born. "I didn't even realize any of that," she says of the period. "I was just getting on with it." Her anxiety was, in her words, naturally high.

The tear from the delivery had healed well, and she describes it as low down and not a big deal. The symptoms that followed were not confined to the healed area. She developed intense itching and burning in the same region, and then a pubic pain that she came to see as the main thread running through the next decade. Her son is now nineteen. The pain did not announce itself as a crisis that demanded a single explanation; it accumulated, and the lives around it kept moving.

This is the detail that many readers with pelvic pain will recognize: the sense that a physical event becomes a story the body keeps telling long after the original injury has healed. Smith's account doesn't insist on a single cause. It describes a sequence of stress, grief, a new role and a body that, as she tells it, never got a real chance to settle.

Why did pushing harder never fix the pain?

One of the most useful threads in the conversation is the cost of effort itself. Smith kept working in health care, moved into specialist public health nursing with families of young children, and in 2018 took on coaching as part of her role. By then, she says, she had already spent roughly a decade deep in chronic symptoms. She describes a body that she could not sit down with comfortably, and a schedule that never allowed her to stop.

"I did not know there were going to be a way out for at that point." (Joanne Lee Smith, Beyond the Pelvis, 36:04)

That sentence captures the hopelessness that tends to accompany long-term pain: the belief that the next treatment must be the one that works, and that if it doesn't, the fault lies in insufficient effort. The episode's own outline names this directly as a theme, "why pushing yourself harder and constantly trying to fix your symptoms can become exhausting." For many people in pain, the search itself becomes a second job, layered on top of the first.

What is the "page of rage," and why did it matter?

The turning point Smith describes is strikingly low-tech. She began scribbling her thoughts on paper, a practice she called her "page of rage." The show's description presents it as an unexpected turning point, and in the conversation it sits alongside the discovery of the connection between thoughts, feelings and physical symptoms. There is no equipment, no protocol and no expert in the room. There is a page, a pen and whatever is true in that moment.

The value of this kind of journaling, as the episode frames it, is that it gives emotion somewhere to go besides the body. It is also a way of noticing patterns. When you write down the frustration, the fear and the anger that accompany a flare, you start to see what sits next to the symptom. The episode lists journaling, self-compassion and experimentation as the supports that carried Smith's recovery, and the page of rage is the most concrete of the three.

What did the Three Principles and mind-body work change?

Smith describes discovering the mind-body connection, the Three Principles approach and the writing of Dr. John Sarno as the point where her understanding of pain changed. Laura Haraka introduces her as a specialist in the Three Principles and as someone who now helps others move beyond chronic pain, fear and limiting beliefs. The conversation focuses on how Smith came to understand her own experience of pain differently, rather than on mechanics.

What is most useful for a reader is the shift in question. Instead of asking "what treatment will fix this part of my body," the approach invites a person to ask what their thoughts and feelings are doing alongside their symptoms, and whether the pressure to keep going is part of the picture. Smith's account suggests that this reframing is not a denial of pain. It is a change in where attention goes, and it opened room for her to try different approaches without treating each one as a verdict.

Readers should note the limits of what can be said from the material. The episode is a conversation, not a clinical trial, and this article does not claim that the Three Principles or any particular approach will work for every person. What Smith describes is her own recovery, told in her own words.

Can doing less be part of healing?

The episode closes on a point that cuts against much of the wellness culture around chronic illness. Healing, Smith and Haraka suggest, should not become another full-time job. The conversation's outline frames doing less as something that can be part of moving forward, not a retreat from it. Smith says she has moved away from many of the coping strategies that once dominated her life, and has found more freedom in how she lives.

Early in the episode, Smith describes her own habit of doing a great deal in pursuit of relief, including special stretches and routines she maintained for years. Near the end she reflects on how she thought she was going to fix herself by doing more. The arc from there is not from effort to none, but from effort aimed at eliminating symptoms to attention that allows the body and the mind to be heard.

For a reader who is exhausted from the search, that may be the most practical takeaway. Smith's story suggests that the question worth asking is not only "what is the next treatment," but "what am I doing to myself in the name of getting better, and can some of it stop?"

Where to go from here

If this conversation resonates, the full episode of Beyond the Pelvis runs about an hour and five minutes and goes deeper into Smith's childhood, the birth, the years of symptoms and the shift in her understanding. Smith also works as a coach and mentor, and her website is seraphicactive.com. Those who want to explore the mind-body approach further can look into the Three Principles and into Dr. John Sarno's writing directly, and read his work in its own words rather than through summary. Above all, Smith's story points to a simple starting place: a page, a pen, and honest notes about what is actually happening inside you.

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Transcript

[0:01] [music]

[0:06] >> Hi and welcome to Beyond the Pelvis. I'm

[0:09] Laura Haraka, a somatic [music]

[0:11] practitioner, breathwork facilitator,

[0:14] and someone who's been on the healing

[0:16] journey myself.

[0:18] >> [music]

[0:18] >> I know what it's like to live with

[0:20] chronic symptoms and feel disconnected

[0:22] from your body. And I also know how

[0:24] powerful it can be when we start to

[0:25] listen, slow down, and heal from the

[0:29] inside out.

[0:30] On this podcast, we talk about the

[0:32] mind-body connection, nervous system

[0:34] healing, pelvic health, and all the

[0:36] messy, beautiful layers that come within

[0:39] learning to trust your body again.

[0:41] Whether you're brand new to this work or

[0:43] deep in your process, I'm so glad you're

[0:46] here. So, let's dive in. Welcome to

[0:49] another episode of Beyond the Pelvis.

[0:52] And today, I'm excited to welcome Joanne

[0:55] Lee Smith.

[0:57] Joanne knows firsthand what it's like to

[1:00] live with chronic pain. After a 16-year

[1:03] journey with chronic pain, she found her

[1:07] way to recovery and went on to become an

[1:09] ultra-marathon runner.

[1:11] Joanne is qualified nurse, professional

[1:15] coach, and mentor who specializes in the

[1:18] three principles approach.

[1:21] Today, she helps others move beyond

[1:23] chronic pain, fear, and limiting

[1:25] beliefs, and reconnect with their

[1:27] resilience, and regain confidence in

[1:30] their bodies. So, I'm looking forward to

[1:33] hearing more about her incredible

[1:35] journey and what she's learned along the

[1:38] way. Welcome to Beyond the Pelvis,

[1:41] Joanne.

[1:42] >> Uh thank you, Laura. It's great to be

[1:44] here. Thanks for the invite and the nice

[1:47] introduction.

[1:48] >> You're very welcome. I'm so happy we

[1:50] were able to get to meet through the

[1:54] ATNS groups that uh we meet once a

[1:57] month. So, I was lucky to get to know

[2:00] her a little bit, and she was happy to

[2:02] come on the podcast and share her story.

[2:05] So, let's start. Let's dive right in.

[2:08] Can you share a little bit about

[2:10] yourself and your background?

[2:12] >> Yeah.

[2:13] Yeah, of course. Um warning you now if I

[2:15] go on for too long cuz I'm

[2:17] I'm known for for chatting and being a

[2:18] chatterbox.

[2:20] But basically,

[2:21] um my background is in nursing in the

[2:24] NHS. And I started working for the

[2:27] health care in health care at 16 years

[2:30] old.

[2:31] Um

[2:31] and I was inspired to go on to become a

[2:33] nurse like right back

[2:35] back in 1998.

[2:38] Um so,

[2:40] um over the years I've gone on, I then

[2:42] went on to become a specialist public

[2:44] health nurse working in the community,

[2:47] mainly working with families with young

[2:49] children from pregnancy up until going

[2:51] to school.

[2:52] Um I've always worked in health care.

[2:55] And in 2018,

[2:57] I had the chance to become a coach as

[2:59] well as part of my job. Um but the long

[3:02] [clears throat] long story short is that

[3:05] when I had the chance to become a coach,

[3:07] by this time, I'd already been in 10

[3:10] years by that point of deep in chronic

[3:12] symptoms and chronic pains that I did

[3:16] not know there were going to be a way

[3:17] out for at that point. Um and it takes

[3:20] me right back to 2008

[3:23] when I first developed what I would have

[3:26] classed as chronic symptoms.

[3:28] But when I worked it out before,

[3:31] it goes before that, too.

[3:34] Um even even the even the year before

[3:37] that, I realized that I was having some

[3:40] symptoms, too. And goes right back to

[3:42] childhood. So, I'll let you um ask me

[3:45] anything [snorts] you like, and I'm

[3:46] happy to share where it all kind of

[3:48] began.

[3:49] >> Right. Yes. So, tell us a little bit

[3:50] about your symptoms. What was showing up

[3:53] for you either in 2007, 2008, or even if

[3:57] you want to bring us back to your

[3:58] childhood if your symptoms first began

[4:00] there.

[4:01] >> Yeah, I'll I'll do a little summary to

[4:03] childhood, sir. Just to begin with. I

[4:05] was kind of really prone to having

[4:07] growing pains, like aching legs. Really

[4:11] really used to keep me up a lot. I used

[4:13] to put cold flannels on my legs and

[4:15] on at the time, my dad always said

[4:18] there's no such thing as growing pains.

[4:19] He He was an Olympic gymnast. He'd had

[4:22] it a lot tougher than that and he was

[4:24] that was his approach.

[4:26] There's no such thing. So, I had to be a

[4:28] bit of a tough cookie even when I think

[4:30] back. Um I had

[4:33] I used to have go through phases where I

[4:34] had real bad stomach pains where my mom

[4:37] would end up calling an ambulance. I'd

[4:39] have to get taken to hospital.

[4:40] >> Wow.

[4:41] >> in. And they'd always put it down to

[4:44] constipation.

[4:46] Um and then that would be They wouldn't

[4:48] be chronic. They They would be these

[4:49] episodes and then they'd come and go.

[4:52] And then I'd have

[4:54] asthma attacks which were

[4:56] um needing an ambulance again and then

[4:57] being in hospital sometimes for up to a

[4:59] week needing

[5:01] um

[5:02] nebulizers and steroids, sir.

[5:05] But they were the main symptoms as a

[5:06] child, but they were nothing majorly

[5:08] chronic. Like it would be just episodes

[5:10] that would come and go.

[5:12] And then in teenage years,

[5:14] um I I developed migraines with the

[5:17] visual aura that started out around 11

[5:20] years old when I'd just be in in a

[5:22] lesson and then I just wouldn't be able

[5:24] to see. There'd be a flicker and then

[5:26] it'd become a migraine. So, they were

[5:29] the the main kind of symptoms in

[5:31] childhood.

[5:33] It wasn't really when I think back when

[5:36] um

[5:38] it was

[5:39] after the birth of my son when I

[5:41] actually really looked back over years

[5:44] when I began to learn about um

[5:46] neuroplastic symptoms, I realized

[5:50] that

[5:51] um after I'd had my son,

[5:53] I developed

[5:55] it Well, during the delivery itself, I

[5:57] had a labial tear

[5:59] which I never even knew this was

[6:01] possible. Like you're just giving birth

[6:02] to your first child. You don't really

[6:04] know

[6:05] how it's going to what's going to

[6:06] happen. But, I can

[6:08] I remember the midwife

[6:10] um making a comment about this, "Oh,

[6:12] there's a tear. Don't worry, I'm going

[6:14] to stitch this up." And

[6:16] it wasn't until the few days later that

[6:18] the midwife came to visit me at home to

[6:21] do like a a check. She said, "I'm just

[6:22] going to check your

[6:24] um wound." And she made this comment

[6:27] about it at the time. She said something

[6:29] really unusual, and it really like

[6:32] shocked me.

[6:34] And I can remember thinking, "Oh, gosh,

[6:35] it must be really bad." And it's kind of

[6:38] embarrassing what she said, because I

[6:41] was like it made me like think, "Why

[6:42] would you even say that to a a lady

[6:44] that's just had a baby?"

[6:46] And what she said to me was she looked

[6:48] She made me lie down on the sofa, and

[6:49] she said to me,

[6:50] "Oh,

[6:51] oh my She goes, "Well, let's put it this

[6:53] way." She said, "You You're lucky to be

[6:56] a porn star."

[6:58] And I know your orgasm was like mine. It

[7:01] was like short I was like, "You're lucky

[7:03] to be a porn star." And I can remember

[7:06] thinking,

[7:07] "Oh my gosh, it must be really like

[7:08] bad." Like, "Would I want to ever do

[7:11] that?" Like that was really shocking to

[7:13] me.

[7:14] So, I I must admit I shared that with my

[7:16] my husband, and I'm like, "What Why

[7:18] would she say that?" She must have just

[7:19] been making like likeness of it. She

[7:21] must have just been trying to make you

[7:23] feel

[7:24] like I don't I could never really fathom

[7:26] it out. But, I can remember being

[7:29] thinking, "Oh, it must be really bad.

[7:31] Like there must be a lot of damage."

[7:33] Anyway, long long story short, that was

[7:35] that, and I never really

[7:37] um I just can't remember it kept popping

[7:39] into my mind what what the midwife had

[7:42] said.

[7:43] But, then I do not remember the exact

[7:45] timeline, but I can remember developing

[7:47] really really extreme

[7:50] itching and burning in that in this

[7:52] area.

[7:53] The the labia. Both. Not in them just

[7:55] where the tear was. That was all healed,

[7:58] and actually

[7:59] they had healed really well. It had

[8:01] healed quite neatly, and it was quite

[8:03] low down, so it wasn't really a big

[8:05] deal.

[8:06] But, that that year after becoming a mom

[8:10] was a tough year in itself when I look

[8:13] back.

[8:14] Um my grandparents both died what very

[8:17] like within 10 weeks of each other.

[8:20] And my nana, who I was really close

[8:22] with, she had cancer throughout my

[8:24] pregnancy.

[8:25] And the week before I had my son, who's

[8:28] now 19, believe it or not, he's 19 years

[8:31] old now.

[8:32] But he she died just the week before he

[8:35] was born, so she didn't get to meet him.

[8:38] And it had been a tough time, so my

[8:41] levels of anxiety were quite high.

[8:44] Naturally.

[8:46] >> I can't even imagine what you went

[8:48] through. Um I am so sorry and I can't

[8:52] even imagine what you've been would be

[8:54] feeling

[8:55] when

[8:56] the midwife came in and shared that with

[8:59] you after just having got your body gone

[9:03] through giving birth, which is really a

[9:06] lot on the human body.

[9:08] >> Well, that was the the Well, I didn't

[9:10] even realize any of that. I was just

[9:12] getting on with it and being being my

[9:14] myself like carrying on. During the

[9:17] pregnancy, I forgot to mention that I

[9:19] had to have regular scans because I had

[9:20] too much fluid as well. So again, my

[9:23] levels of

[9:25] stress would have been higher. I had a

[9:27] grandparent that had cancer that I

[9:29] didn't know if she was going to still be

[9:31] alive when he was born.

[9:33] And

[9:34] and but I didn't really

[9:36] considered them or not connections for

[9:37] me with physical symptoms and those life

[9:40] events happening. Um

[9:43] and I actually felt quite grateful

[9:45] because

[9:46] it was really sad what had happened like

[9:48] my nana did die the week before.

[9:50] But she kind of sent me a sign cuz when

[9:53] I gave birth, my son was born with a

[9:55] veil on his face. And it's quite Well,

[9:59] it some people might have heard of it.

[10:01] It's where they have like a membrane

[10:02] going over the face. But my nana always

[10:05] used to say to me that my dad was born

[10:06] with the same and she always used to

[10:08] talk about it and say, "Oh, your dad had

[10:11] a veil and it was really weird. I never

[10:13] known anyone else had that." And when

[10:15] the son was born, he had that, too. So,

[10:18] I kind of felt some peace. Yeah.

[10:21] But But as as the time went on, I

[10:23] developed these symptoms in that area,

[10:25] which actually I never even connected as

[10:27] a neuroplastic symptom.

[10:29] And that lasted

[10:32] probably the entire year post natal

[10:34] afterwards. I'd go to the doctors. I

[10:36] They never found anything. They'd do

[10:37] swaps. They'd say, "We'll We'll test you

[10:40] for thrush. Just wear loose clothing

[10:43] wear whatever cotton underwear." I did

[10:46] all the things.

[10:47] And they never found a cause for it.

[10:50] And

[10:51] I can remember it being so uncomfortable

[10:54] and it would swell. I've never It would

[10:56] swell more than giving like the delivery

[10:58] itself. It would double like my labia

[11:00] would double in size.

[11:02] And they'd be so swollen and and burning

[11:05] and itchy. And I could not even like

[11:08] when you you could just be going to the

[11:10] toilet to wipe and then it would be

[11:13] flame. It would just be like intense

[11:15] like sitting cold water. This is how I

[11:18] coped with it.

[11:19] And during that year post natal, I would

[11:22] sit in cold water. And one

[11:24] [clears throat]

[11:25] evening,

[11:26] I'd gone to stay with my brother. And I

[11:28] can remember finding something that

[11:30] actually was helpful.

[11:32] Because I couldn't go get a a bath. Um

[11:35] like it I was staying in my brother's

[11:36] house and they were all family were

[11:38] there.

[11:39] And in the end, what I did was I found I

[11:41] went down to the kitchen to get a drink

[11:42] and I got some ice cubes.

[11:44] And I used ice cubes.

[11:47] So, rather than it going completely out

[11:49] of control, I found a way of using ice

[11:51] cubes, which helped in that moment. So,

[11:54] I kept doing it that way.

[11:56] What

[11:57] Well, long story short, I think

[11:58] eventually it just took its natural

[12:01] path.

[12:02] And I found that I just would leave it,

[12:05] use an ice cube just to alleviate the

[12:08] discomfort.

[12:10] And then

[12:12] I ended up being in a car

[12:14] So, this is where where I don't recall

[12:16] the exact order of events.

[12:18] >> Mhm.

[12:19] >> I ended up being in a car accident in

[12:21] 2008.

[12:22] So, my son was born in 2007.

[12:26] And then

[12:27] literally just 1 year

[12:29] and 1 month after he was born

[12:32] um I was in this car crash.

[12:35] And I was I'd gone back to university to

[12:37] do my training to be a public health

[12:39] nurse. We call it a health visitor in

[12:41] the UK.

[12:42] >> Okay.

[12:43] >> And so, I'm I'm literally only in my

[12:45] first week of being back at university.

[12:49] And I also had to work full-time

[12:51] to do the training.

[12:53] And I'd just dropped my son at nursery

[12:55] that morning.

[12:56] And while I was making my way there, I

[12:58] was in a a car accident where I was

[13:00] twisted. So, I sat stationary at a big

[13:03] roundabout. And the van did not stop.

[13:07] And it just came into me at full speed.

[13:09] Um cuz he I think he thought

[13:11] well, I'm not exactly sure what

[13:13] happened, but I was twisted. And I was

[13:15] briefly knocked out like cuz I'd hit the

[13:18] head

[13:19] on the side of the seatbelt panel. But

[13:22] so, I I was just I'm in this crash. And

[13:25] then

[13:26] I had all I remember is I could hear a

[13:28] ringing inside this ear. Like it popped.

[13:31] And then I looked this way, and the man

[13:32] who had hit me was at the side of my

[13:34] window asking, "Are you okay?"

[13:37] Um so, that happened

[13:39] um

[13:41] on well, literally when I'd just gone

[13:43] back to work.

[13:45] And

[13:46] we called um the ambulance and the

[13:48] police. They took me to the hospital,

[13:50] and everything checked out okay. Like

[13:53] she was good. She's got whiplash. She's

[13:56] um

[13:57] you you're going to be fine. My hearing

[13:59] came back. Everything the ringing

[14:00] stopped. It was you know, it was just

[14:02] that immediate. So, I was like, "Oh, no.

[14:04] I'm going to get I'll get back to work."

[14:06] Cuz I was panicking cuz I'd just started

[14:09] this new job, new course, highly driven,

[14:13] highly ambitious.

[14:15] You know, I would never take a day off.

[14:17] So, I went from hospital straight to

[14:19] work.

[14:20] Um my car was completely like I didn't

[14:23] have a car, so I I got literally

[14:27] a taxi from the hospital

[14:29] to the the work.

[14:31] >> Talk about stress.

[14:32] >> Oh, no. Um and I didn't take the day off

[14:35] or anything. It was just like how

[14:37] inconvenient. Do you know what's funny

[14:39] as well? I'll share this with you. I

[14:40] found this recently in my loft when I

[14:42] was just sorting some things out. I

[14:44] found the

[14:45] as part of a training we had to keep

[14:47] like a daily

[14:48] log, like a journal, of our reflective

[14:51] practice for the training. And I can

[14:53] remember I found the reflective piece

[14:55] that I'd written from that day.

[14:57] And it was really interesting when I

[14:59] read it because it it basically said

[15:02] it it really played down what had

[15:03] happened. But I did not realize I didn't

[15:06] even think it were a big deal. It was

[15:07] like I've been in car crashes before, so

[15:10] >> Yeah.

[15:10] >> I was like yeah, it was the worst one

[15:13] I'd had, but I didn't expect it to be an

[15:15] issue.

[15:16] And I'd written

[15:18] um I'd written something along those

[15:19] lines. I can't remember the exact words

[15:20] I've written, but I just put something

[15:22] like

[15:23] um

[15:24] I was a bit late in today because a car

[15:26] hit me.

[15:27] And then I'd put something like in next

[15:29] to it like

[15:31] and then it basically just went on to

[15:32] describe what I'd done in the afternoon.

[15:34] I'd been to visit a personal elderly and

[15:36] how I'd enjoyed speaking to her about

[15:38] weaning the baby. And there was

[15:40] something that I in what that I wrote

[15:41] and I thought, "Wow, Jay, that's really

[15:43] interesting that you

[15:45] you literally just put

[15:47] I was I was it was like I was a note

[15:48] that I was late in

[15:50] to work.

[15:51] Um it was like

[15:52] >> minimizing what had just happened to

[15:54] you.

[15:55] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[15:56] >> It's This is so important. I'm so glad

[15:58] you shared this story

[16:00] because it's so interesting how people

[16:02] with chronic pain have had these things

[16:04] happen to us that have put in our body

[16:06] in fight, flight, freeze, shock. And

[16:09] then we just keep going

[16:12] and go on with our day and don't give

[16:14] ourselves a chance to settle from the

[16:17] situation.

[16:19] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting because

[16:21] I wrote that years down the line only

[16:23] really in the last couple of years after

[16:25] I've made a lot of progress. And I was

[16:27] like, "Wow, Joe, how hard were you on

[16:29] yourself that day?" You literally

[16:31] dropped your newborn baby off at

[16:33] nursery. You'd had a tooth fear. I could

[16:35] look back and reflect on that comment

[16:38] and be like,

[16:39] "Gosh, most people would have taken the

[16:41] day off at least if not the next day.

[16:43] You know You know You know you got

[16:44] knocked out. You had a neck injury." It

[16:46] was all of these things, but yet you you

[16:48] continued to not want to let anyone else

[16:51] down.

[16:52] >> Mhm.

[16:54] >> And that was that. I didn't take no time

[16:56] off the entire year. I did the year's

[16:57] training.

[16:58] Um and then I had the initial like

[17:03] pain expecting it will settle like

[17:06] injuries do. And

[17:08] and um as time went on

[17:11] then the pain So, this is why why I

[17:13] don't remember exactly the order of

[17:15] events and what

[17:17] the symptoms that I was having with the

[17:19] um I'll now kind of call them vulvodynia

[17:23] symptoms cuz they do meet that criteria

[17:25] when I look back at the what I had back

[17:28] then.

[17:29] I think that might be the word that

[17:30] medic- medical system might describe it.

[17:33] >> But they never diagnosed you with

[17:35] vulvodynia at the time.

[17:36] >> No, they just kept sending me away

[17:38] saying, "We don't know what's wrong." Um

[17:41] and um and I figured it out but I'm not

[17:44] sure whether it sorted itself out.

[17:47] I don't remember the exact time.

[17:49] >> So, the pelvic pain faded away?

[17:52] >> Uh yeah, I can't remember if I if I was

[17:54] still struggling before the car accident

[17:56] or not. I genuinely don't don't

[17:58] remember. There was that much happening.

[18:00] >> Right. Yeah, of course you don't

[18:01] remember.

[18:02] >> I just don't actually remember at what

[18:05] point that settled, but the the the car

[18:08] accident took over with the most I've

[18:10] ever experienced in my life, and that's

[18:12] why I always If I was to say at what

[18:14] point did your

[18:15] um

[18:17] symptoms become a chronic symptom, then

[18:19] I would have said it was the neck pain

[18:22] from the car accident that was the the

[18:24] biggest challenge that I'd had.

[18:27] But I did

[18:28] like

[18:30] after the year back at university, I

[18:32] kind of blamed it on the study. I blamed

[18:34] it on being a busy mom.

[18:37] Um I blamed it on everything. I could

[18:40] find a reason for it because I'm I'm

[18:42] like reading a lot. I'm writing a lot.

[18:44] I'm having to do assignments.

[18:46] Um so I was like, "It's going to get

[18:48] better uh when you've finished at uni."

[18:50] Um I'd done all right the

[18:53] standard stuff, you know, like

[18:54] physiotherapy, exercising. I'm

[18:57] I'm a naturally an active person, so I

[18:59] would

[19:00] I wouldn't want to be the

[19:02] person to stop.

[19:04] But it continued. This neck pain just

[19:06] was relentless.

[19:08] It It literally took over the vast

[19:11] majority of the years that you mentioned

[19:13] at the beginning. Like at the time we

[19:15] said 16 years.

[19:18] It was the center stage, you could say,

[19:20] for a lot of that time.

[19:22] And as the time went on

[19:25] um

[19:26] this is probably further down the line

[19:29] when I realized this neck pain is

[19:31] I just kept going back to physiotherapy

[19:33] over and over and

[19:35] trying different things.

[19:36] >> Now, did they give you a diagnosis or an

[19:39] MRI that there was something going on in

[19:42] the neck?

[19:43] >> So it wasn't until after three more than

[19:45] three years that I went back and I kind

[19:48] of handled it

[19:50] alone, but they did keep giving me

[19:52] prescriptions for co- um I don't know

[19:54] what In In the UK they call it codeine

[19:57] or co-codamol.

[19:58] >> Yes.

[19:59] >> Do you know that one? It's like an

[20:01] opioid kind of medicine.

[20:02] >> Yes, I do. I do just from um having

[20:05] clients in the UK.

[20:07] >> Yeah, so they they that tended to be the

[20:10] thing that

[20:11] allowed me to cope. I I think without

[20:13] that I'm not sure I would have made it

[20:14] through.

[20:15] >> Yeah. Um so

[20:17] >> I I was on the pain relief, but

[20:20] so this is where it gets a little bit

[20:22] more interesting, the journey, because I

[20:25] had a second child. I'm not sure how

[20:27] that ever happened. Thankfully, the

[20:29] vulvodynia symptoms settled

[20:31] >> Okay.

[20:31] >> um to the point where

[20:34] I didn't have fear about intimacy and

[20:37] and those kind of things back then.

[20:39] But I um So, basically, when I was So,

[20:42] when I got pregnant with my second

[20:44] child,

[20:46] I developed

[20:48] the Well, they would have been diagnosed

[20:50] as symphysis pubis dysfunction.

[20:52] >> Mhm.

[20:53] >> SPD.

[20:54] I heard that you'll be you'll you'll

[20:56] you'll definitely know that one.

[20:58] >> Absolutely.

[20:59] >> yeah, what what I can remember is

[21:02] um and I didn't get too worried about

[21:04] this because I was um a health visitor.

[21:06] I worked with pregnant ladies and

[21:09] I'd seen this a lot and I'd seen ladies

[21:12] that were on crutches, that were

[21:13] wheelchair bound with this

[21:15] um symphysis pubis dysfunction.

[21:18] And I kept thinking, well, mine is not

[21:20] that extreme.

[21:22] But I had

[21:23] uh it started in the third literally

[21:26] only in week 12 of pregnancy.

[21:28] I was only 12 weeks pregnant and I

[21:30] started with this pubic pain

[21:32] right in the pubic bone.

[21:33] >> Yeah.

[21:34] >> It was really intense and it and it

[21:37] when you go to stand up from sitting

[21:39] down, when you go to do any motion that

[21:41] involved opening

[21:44] um your legs.

[21:45] >> Is it?

[21:45] >> It was just any motion that involved

[21:47] getting up or crossing, you know,

[21:49] going from legs crossed to legs open and

[21:51] things.

[21:52] Um

[21:53] and that was really that were a

[21:55] long-standing issue,

[21:57] but it still didn't take over the neck

[21:59] pain, if that makes any sense.

[22:02] >> Makes perfect sense, yeah.

[22:03] >> The neck pain was

[22:05] constantly in the center stage. It hurt

[22:08] a lot more than the neck pain. But I did

[22:10] develop this SPD, symphysis pubis pubic

[22:14] pain in the pubic bone.

[22:16] And actually that

[22:18] did kind of follow the expected pattern

[22:20] that

[22:21] I would have expected. So,

[22:24] the surgeon

[22:26] on pregnancy, those hormones are still

[22:28] active. And I breastfed for about 13

[22:32] months.

[22:33] >> Was it?

[22:33] >> And

[22:34] so I start that I still I understood it.

[22:38] Made sense that you can still have those

[22:40] symptoms during breastfeeding.

[22:42] >> Mhm.

[22:43] >> Um but actually they didn't settle till

[22:45] a year after stopping breastfeeding.

[22:48] By this point, this is quite interesting

[22:51] when I actually look back at it because

[22:53] I'm like, "God, I didn't know I knew

[22:54] this one up we're going through it."

[22:56] But when that part of it settled down, I

[23:00] developed

[23:02] and I I could never explain it. I used

[23:03] to think it was because of my neck cuz

[23:05] by this point my neck had been hurting

[23:07] so much for so many years.

[23:10] But I thought it's referring down to my

[23:13] lower back, my lower left back. Mhm.

[23:16] Like the

[23:17] buttock. They called it the SI, they

[23:20] called it sacroiliac joint dysfunction

[23:23] or they called it all kinds of different

[23:25] things.

[23:26] >> I'm familiar with that.

[23:27] >> Mhm.

[23:27] >> Yes, so I developed when this I remember

[23:31] it

[23:32] the pubic pain settling after about 3

[23:36] years. I'd stopped breastfeeding as I'd

[23:38] been pregnant like for 9 months of it

[23:40] and then breastfeeding for another year

[23:42] or so. And then I remember it being

[23:45] um

[23:46] once she was around 3 year old. But the

[23:50] the issue being that I had also an

[23:53] umbilical hernia

[23:55] as well.

[23:56] >> Mhm.

[23:57] >> So that was a pregnancy related

[23:59] legitimate hernia that was um

[24:03] on my belly button. My belly button was

[24:05] bulging.

[24:06] And

[24:07] this is all around about the time that

[24:09] I'm trying to

[24:11] get active like proper active because by

[24:14] this point I'm like

[24:16] going a little bit insane.

[24:17] >> Mhm.

[24:18] >> Because I'm like

[24:20] or I'm in so much pain I just I'm

[24:22] naturally a hyper active kind of person

[24:25] who loves doing active activities.

[24:28] I was trying to get back to doing

[24:30] exercise, but I couldn't because of the

[24:31] hernia. Cuz every time I tried to run,

[24:34] it would be bulging, so painful. So, I

[24:38] want

[24:39] and had I did have surgery like that

[24:41] would have that would done.

[24:43] Um that was

[24:45] um a nice easy Well, easy for me to be,

[24:48] but it was like a day surgery.

[24:50] But, all of this was happening, I don't

[24:52] know at what point this lower left back

[24:54] symptom began, but I used to blame it on

[24:56] my neck cuz I used to think I'm holding

[24:58] myself strange.

[25:00] >> Yeah.

[25:00] >> Um I'm compensating and

[25:03] >> Which sometimes we do do that with

[25:05] chronic pain conditions, right? We

[25:07] compensate or we move a certain way, and

[25:10] then we start getting an actual real

[25:12] pain from over compensating.

[25:14] >> I didn't Yeah, and I used to think I

[25:17] used to ask them and they go, "No, it's

[25:18] not possible." And the the the

[25:20] physiotherapist and doctors had said the

[25:22] two things are not connected.

[25:24] And I just couldn't understand because I

[25:26] didn't didn't know what was happening,

[25:27] really. And it was just

[25:30] And then I was in another car accident.

[25:32] And so, I'm thinking, "Well, could it be

[25:33] that?" There was just so many different

[25:35] things happening. And in the car crash,

[25:37] so I'm like, "But, then as I'm going, it

[25:39] was just a bump. It wasn't a biggie."

[25:41] And then I go, "Well, it would have

[25:42] would have triggered that."

[25:44] Um so,

[25:46] and

[25:47] so, that that had developed. So, I did

[25:50] get referred to chronic pain service and

[25:52] I went down the the road of

[25:54] Oh, and I forgot to tell you about all

[25:55] the migraines that were thrown into the

[25:57] mix.

[25:58] >> Yeah.

[25:58] >> Um there were many many many migraines

[26:00] like I never even thought of the

[26:02] migraines as chronic, but when I look

[26:04] back in hindsight, I'm I'm kind of like,

[26:07] "Yeah."

[26:08] Um they were regular

[26:10] um

[26:12] guest in my journey, these migraines,

[26:15] but

[26:16] um I'd

[26:18] Yeah, I'll get I'll get to the point

[26:19] with the running as well like why that

[26:21] came in.

[26:22] So, when I had the hernia repaired,

[26:26] this is like my opportunity cuz I had no

[26:29] reason not to

[26:30] to be running, be active now is like

[26:32] well everything's sorted.

[26:35] So

[26:36] I'm I'm on the chronic pain so I I've

[26:38] got neck issue lower back.

[26:42] Um

[26:43] >> And as I joined issue still?

[26:45] >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's that's the

[26:47] like that that becomes a very dominant

[26:50] >> Mhm.

[26:50] >> dominant symptom.

[26:52] And so they offered me the

[26:55] uh what do we call them? We call them

[26:57] like um

[26:59] steroid injections. Initially they do a

[27:01] diagnostic steroid injection. So they

[27:03] offered me that for my neck pain.

[27:05] >> Mhm.

[27:06] >> And I'm I'm and I responded really well

[27:08] to that. But like they said to me, this

[27:11] is going to help you for no

[27:12] [clears throat] more than like a couple

[27:14] of months. It short acting but it's a

[27:16] diagnostic so if that works we can do

[27:17] another procedure which will be more

[27:19] long-term.

[27:20] >> Mhm.

[27:20] >> So I went down that road I would have

[27:22] done anything by this point. I would

[27:23] have done anything.

[27:25] And they did that. It It gave me

[27:28] uh temporarily as expected the the pain

[27:31] returned.

[27:32] Um

[27:33] on the but the lower pain became more

[27:36] dominant.

[27:38] And the more dominant.

[27:40] >> Well.

[27:40] >> So the neck settled but but this was

[27:43] just like

[27:45] even more

[27:46] like

[27:47] even higher

[27:49] >> it sounds like, right? And isn't it that

[27:51] interesting this settles and that

[27:53] becomes more prominent?

[27:55] >> Yeah, we're we're like back to back to

[27:56] this area again of the body and I'm like

[27:59] And so

[28:00] I'll then went ahead and had the longer

[28:02] term radio the coding nerve ablations or

[28:04] radio frequency treatment nerve

[28:06] ablations. And they said to me that will

[28:08] last up to 2 years.

[28:10] So I'd get temporary relief with my neck

[28:13] issues and I had that done for over 13

[28:16] year period by this point. I I I'd be

[28:19] regular at every regular attendee every

[28:21] every 18 months to 2 years to go back

[28:25] and have this done with my neck. But

[28:27] they then offered

[28:30] And I will forget to tell you that I

[28:31] developed

[28:32] um other symptoms with

[28:34] on calf, chronic calf pain.

[28:37] >> Uh-huh.

[28:37] >> Chronic There's many symptoms that come

[28:39] over the period of time that just join

[28:41] in.

[28:42] So, this chronic left leg

[28:46] on the calf area just this continuous

[28:48] aching.

[28:49] Um, I also developed

[28:52] um, left my left eye just randomly

[28:55] started being blurred.

[28:57] >> Uh-huh.

[28:57] >> And it developed a foreign body

[28:58] sensation. So, it was um

[29:01] this this came on shortly after a random

[29:04] incident where it was um

[29:06] Do you have Bonfire Night?

[29:08] Do you have a bon- bonfire night?

[29:11] >> are, but I don't know if we have, you

[29:12] know, bonfire nights here, but

[29:15] >> So, in the UK we have like a the 5th of

[29:18] 5th of November it's like um

[29:20] uh they call it Bonfire Night. Um, and

[29:23] people have fireworks and bonfires and

[29:25] they do this uh don't don't test me on

[29:28] the the history, but Guy Fawkes, I

[29:30] think, is the person that tried to set

[29:32] the Houses of Parliament on fire. And

[29:34] they stopped stopped him in his tracks

[29:37] and it became like a public thing that's

[29:39] gone on for years and years, but I can't

[29:41] remember the history behind it, but I

[29:43] was um helping out at an organized event

[29:46] one evening.

[29:48] And being a nurse, I offered to do like

[29:50] any injuries, any accidents.

[29:52] >> Right.

[29:53] >> And you won't believe this, but I was

[29:55] the first person that needed first aid

[29:57] that night.

[29:58] >> Oh, no.

[29:59] >> Can you believe? I've gone out to to

[30:01] check to see if everything was looking

[30:04] okay and if anyone needed anything. And

[30:06] some floating ash in the um in the air

[30:08] just landed in my eye. So, just a little

[30:11] bit of ash. It was floating. It wasn't

[30:13] like from the fire. I was nowhere near

[30:14] the fire. It was just like a little bit

[30:17] of ash, but I was like, "Oh, I've got it

[30:19] in my eye." So, I went back and I just

[30:21] got myself an eye wash and washed my eye

[30:23] out and I thought nothing of it. I

[30:25] genuinely didn't um

[30:27] worry about it. I was like, "Oh,

[30:29] everything's fine."

[30:30] Um, and then someone else came in with a

[30:32] nosebleed and like I forgotten about it.

[30:35] And a whole month passed by.

[30:38] Well, literally a whole month passes by

[30:40] and I'm at work and this particular day

[30:41] I just could not see out of this eye.

[30:43] Blurry, blurry.

[30:45] And I started working when on my screen

[30:48] on my screen just gone gone off. Can you

[30:50] still see me okay?

[30:51] >> still see you perfectly.

[30:53] >> I think it's just the

[30:54] maybe it's the time on it. Cuz I've not

[30:57] been active on the screen.

[30:59] Hopefully it'll come back. Well, so

[31:01] basically what happened

[31:03] was

[31:04] I started work

[31:06] every night I'd go to sleep.

[31:09] And I'm I'm in pain with the neck and

[31:11] the back and the leg and I'm having a

[31:13] lot of cold showers.

[31:15] >> My God.

[31:15] >> I'm having to I'm having regular

[31:17] migraines.

[31:18] I'm having to I'm just like I already

[31:21] what I would describe I didn't even know

[31:23] I was even functioning to be a parent

[31:26] and be at work.

[31:28] And then I

[31:29] I can't open my I'm working.

[31:32] And

[31:32] >> Did you think it was because of the ash

[31:34] that went in your eye?

[31:35] >> Well, I

[31:37] the Well, this is this was the thing. I

[31:39] didn't even connect the ash

[31:40] >> Uh-huh.

[31:41] >> until I went to the doctors. And then

[31:43] when they asked me has anything

[31:45] happened? Did you get an They said they

[31:46] said something to me like, "Some people

[31:49] are cooking their nails and a little bit

[31:50] of nail might ping up and hit them in

[31:52] the eye. Or has anything hit you in the

[31:55] eye?" And I was like,

[31:57] "Oh, about a month ago

[31:59] well, just a little piece of ash on

[32:01] bonfire night came floating in my eye

[32:03] and I cleaned it out and it's been

[32:04] absolutely fine since."

[32:06] So, because

[32:08] they asked me that

[32:09] um and then you don't know he he

[32:11] basically said it was corneal abrasion.

[32:14] And gave me this verbal of corneal

[32:16] abrasion and he said,

[32:18] "You need to do um

[32:20] eye drops and

[32:22] um all these things."

[32:23] Um and that when I look back it wasn't

[32:27] You can't have a 1-month gap from having

[32:30] an an eye injury.

[32:32] >> That doesn't even make sense, right?

[32:34] >> It genuinely doesn't make sense. And it

[32:37] was

[32:38] So, this was November the 5th and my

[32:40] work when I work on the line, it just

[32:42] doesn't

[32:43] work out. Um and I'm already having all

[32:46] these other things going on. And

[32:49] And so I've been to this optician, I've

[32:51] been to Specsavers, they then referred

[32:53] me to the hospital, to the eye

[32:54] specialist.

[32:55] So, they said it's corneal erosion.

[32:58] And anyway, suddenly I then used eye

[33:01] drops for like 7 years.

[33:03] I had to sleep with gel in my eye every

[33:04] night. Um and it still didn't really

[33:07] solve the issue. I was still waking up

[33:09] with upstream discomfort and pain in in

[33:12] my eye. And it was wouldn't open.

[33:15] And it felt paralyzed as well

[33:18] at times. But I was reassured that

[33:20] you're right. I had tinnitus at one

[33:23] point. I knew I had a normal amount had

[33:25] MRIs, then I knew there's nothing

[33:27] uh dangerous going on, but yet there's

[33:29] all these symptoms.

[33:31] >> Wow.

[33:32] >> And um

[33:33] Yes, the uh there was a period of

[33:35] tinnitus as well. I forgot to mention

[33:37] that. But that was um

[33:39] only around a 9-month period

[33:41] where um I'd managed for that that

[33:44] symptom managed to resolve itself one

[33:46] day when I decided I was just going to

[33:47] listen in. I just fell asleep one night

[33:49] and just gave up with it and thought,

[33:51] I'm just going to pretend that you're a

[33:52] song.

[33:53] >> Oh.

[33:54] >> I'm just going to listen to you like I'm

[33:55] playing music and for some how and

[33:57] because I've been seen by a

[33:59] a doctor who had said

[34:01] Oh, it's this is this is nothing. This

[34:03] is a stress response, they'd said

[34:05] something and uh um but it seemed

[34:08] someone didn't do that for all the other

[34:09] symptoms.

[34:10] >> Yeah, yeah. So, it was interesting you

[34:13] thought of it as a song. And that didn't

[34:16] seem dangerous. And

[34:19] those symptoms kind of went away.

[34:21] >> Yeah, they just sort it sort it

[34:23] themselves out.

[34:24] And so, long long story short that

[34:27] that's just kind of like a little bit of

[34:29] an idea on the journey. So, what

[34:32] happened what to bring me to

[34:34] um

[34:36] becoming an ultra runner

[34:38] and becoming like learning about the

[34:40] three principles and all those other

[34:42] things. So, in in 2013,

[34:46] after the

[34:47] um hernia repair, I started getting

[34:50] involved with running.

[34:52] >> Okay.

[34:52] >> And what I found was that running

[34:54] was just a less by. It gave me a break

[34:58] from the symptoms. They weren't as bad

[35:00] when I was moving.

[35:01] >> Yeah.

[35:01] >> And then I I think basically what

[35:03] happens is I become obsessed with

[35:04] movement.

[35:05] >> Right.

[35:06] >> Um

[35:07] and gets to 2018 18

[35:11] and I get the chance to become a coach

[35:13] at work, get the chance to do some

[35:15] training,

[35:16] which is solution-focused coaching,

[35:18] which had a lot of I don't know a lot of

[35:20] cognitive behavioral therapy and it had

[35:22] a lot of approaches that would align

[35:23] with that kind of

[35:25] thing. And a lot of it was about

[35:26] thinking.

[35:27] >> Yeah.

[35:27] >> And a lot of it was about bringing the

[35:29] attention to what you're thinking.

[35:31] So, at this point, I didn't realize, but

[35:33] I had a massive Well, I did realize cuz

[35:35] I had a huge epiphany during the

[35:36] training where

[35:38] I realized that every thing that I was

[35:40] thinking,

[35:42] all the things I was saying to myself,

[35:43] all my imaginations about the future,

[35:46] all my memories from the past, they were

[35:48] all like really unhelpful.

[35:50] >> Yeah.

[35:51] >> So, in that moment, I realized, "Wow,

[35:53] this is my thinking."

[35:55] >> Yeah.

[35:55] >> And oh my gosh, I'm feeling

[35:58] like that because I'm feeling like that.

[36:01] >> Right.

[36:01] >> And

[36:02] and what happened was

[36:04] long story short,

[36:05] I at that point, I could do a half

[36:07] marathon.

[36:09] And that was really tough. I'd been bed

[36:10] all afternoon. I'd been

[36:12] >> me ask you a question. While you were

[36:13] running,

[36:14] >> Uh-huh.

[36:14] >> while you were doing these half

[36:15] marathons and running, what was

[36:17] happening with your symptoms? Were they

[36:18] there?

[36:20] >> So, they were really settled. They were

[36:22] really not there.

[36:23] >> Yeah.

[36:23] >> Well, there were different feelings that

[36:25] were there,

[36:26] >> Right.

[36:26] >> but they weren't they weren't they were

[36:28] calm.

[36:29] >> Yeah.

[36:29] >> calm. So, running really helped.

[36:33] Although,

[36:34] um

[36:36] I'd exhausted myself with it because it

[36:38] became a real big coping strategy.

[36:41] >> Yes.

[36:41] >> But the strange thing is in 2018,

[36:44] when I discovered this connection with

[36:46] thinking

[36:47] and feeling and wow.

[36:51] When I don't

[36:52] like me to do that.

[36:54] I'm

[36:55] I've got this idea that I could run a

[36:57] marathon.

[36:58] >> Uh-huh.

[36:59] >> Which was really crazy cuz I'd gone into

[37:00] this training believing that I couldn't

[37:02] even get through a day and that I don't

[37:03] even know I was ever going to survive.

[37:06] And then I drove home with this having

[37:08] had this big insight that I was going to

[37:10] do a marathon. So I ended up doing a

[37:13] marathon or trail running marathon cuz I

[37:15] really enjoyed off-road.

[37:18] And I did that for months on and this is

[37:21] like

[37:22] um

[37:23] where I guess where my running like I

[37:26] realized I can still do really big

[37:28] things

[37:29] but nothing shifted with the

[37:32] with the symptoms.

[37:33] >> Mhm.

[37:33] >> Nothing shifted. So I'll zoom ahead just

[37:36] so it would I don't want to go on all

[37:38] day but basically in 20

[37:41] um So what happened? I don't I always

[37:44] remember the dates and things like this.

[37:46] Um but we're in lockdown by this point.

[37:50] And

[37:51] um events are not really happening but I

[37:53] signed up to my first ultra marathon cuz

[37:56] I just got this like I can do a

[37:57] marathon. I can do I can do an ultra

[37:59] marathon now. And it was becoming quite

[38:02] obsessive really when I look back at it

[38:04] but it's like well if you've got to live

[38:06] like this

[38:07] and I so in the back of my mind

[38:10] how I now know well I always knew there

[38:13] was some ulterior motive in what I was

[38:16] doing because in my mind I was believing

[38:19] that if I can get really get the

[38:21] strongest that I've ever been get the

[38:23] fittest I've ever been get the

[38:25] flexiblest that I've ever been like if I

[38:27] can get myself then the back of my mind

[38:31] was believing that it were going to

[38:33] somehow we were going to have this

[38:35] miraculous recovery. So I was doing it I

[38:38] think

[38:40] out of desperation.

[38:41] >> So even though you had this epiphany

[38:44] with the thinking, right? Which was

[38:46] amazing. That was the first light bulb

[38:48] experience you had. There was still the

[38:51] intention behind the running that if you

[38:53] got stronger, you were going to be able

[38:56] >> I I was just desperate. I was so

[38:58] desperate

[39:00] like trying to find a solution. And I

[39:02] was

[39:03] I was I didn't realize it, but I never

[39:06] ever sat down. I couldn't sit down. I

[39:10] couldn't sit down

[39:12] right without pain within seconds.

[39:14] >> Okay.

[39:15] >> And it became like it I said when the

[39:17] neck pain was settled,

[39:19] this lower

[39:21] sacroiliac joint area became

[39:24] to the point where I just start I didn't

[39:25] see it as a fear, but I avoided I I

[39:28] avoided sitting, so I never sat down. I

[39:30] have stand I have a stand up desk. I got

[39:32] obsessed with hula hooping. Oh, well,

[39:34] that is my fun like hobby that I I

[39:36] absolutely love hula hooping like

[39:39] I'm so glad I did find hula hooping. It

[39:41] became like arms, legs, every part of my

[39:43] body.

[39:44] >> And your whole face lights up when you

[39:46] talk about hula hooping. You really like

[39:48] it. It was fun, right?

[39:50] >> Yeah. Yeah, that that was like the all I

[39:53] There's not a day that goes by where I

[39:55] don't spin hoops. Um but basically, I'm

[39:59] I just it was either you're either

[40:01] exercising still near working.

[40:04] I didn't even watch TV with my I what if

[40:06] I was to watch TV with my family, I'd be

[40:07] standing there hula hooping for like the

[40:09] whole time that the film is on.

[40:11] Yeah. I did this kind of behavior for

[40:13] years.

[40:14] Um where I just cuz it were either

[40:18] you're either lying down and even lying

[40:19] down was not good. I couldn't lie down

[40:21] comfortably.

[40:22] I'd be on my side. I'd have knee a knee

[40:24] cushion. I'd have a cushion in the

[40:26] whatever special neck

[40:28] It was like all the different things

[40:30] just to just to actually just curl.

[40:33] So, my strategy was movement. And it got

[40:36] me some nice trophies. It got me some

[40:38] nice achievements in ultra running.

[40:41] But it just became

[40:43] like a coping thing. And it wasn't until

[40:46] I did the first 100-mile ultra marathon,

[40:48] sir. It was a 24-hour got 24 hours to do

[40:52] a 100 miles.

[40:54] And so that was like the most I'd ever

[40:56] pushed myself to non-stop.

[40:59] I was going and going and going

[41:01] all that time.

[41:03] And

[41:04] and I literally realized afterwards

[41:08] this isn't going to work, Joe.

[41:10] You're not going to get better.

[41:12] There's something going on and I didn't

[41:14] know anything about

[41:16] neuroplasticity and so I still doubt at

[41:17] this point.

[41:19] 2023

[41:20] >> Yeah.

[41:21] >> And I went back to the doctors like,

[41:24] "I'm really out I'm exhausted. I'm out

[41:26] of I'm at the end of the line here.

[41:28] Like, is there any way you could refer

[41:30] me for help? Is there anything that

[41:32] we've missed?"

[41:34] And anyway, I got the rheumatology

[41:35] referral.

[41:37] And they diagnosed me with fibromyalgia

[41:39] at this appointment. Fibromyalgia.

[41:43] Uh

[41:44] referred me to ADHD with hyperactivity

[41:47] as well. Um

[41:49] and that got diagnosis happened like in

[41:52] the November time, 2023.

[41:55] In the January time

[41:57] 2024

[41:59] I found all about the three principles.

[42:02] >> Wow.

[42:03] >> And I was um

[42:06] kind of like thinking, this is super

[42:08] interesting.

[42:10] And it kind of I could relate to it

[42:12] because of what had happened with the

[42:13] thought in 2020 2018 with that training.

[42:17] >> Right.

[42:17] >> And um and I kind of something wanted to

[42:20] find out more about it, so I I ended up

[42:24] joining the training with David Key,

[42:27] he's called. He used to be a

[42:28] hypnotherapist and an NLP master

[42:30] practitioner.

[42:31] I am did all of these trainings myself,

[42:34] became an NLP master practitioner.

[42:37] I did like this um

[42:39] hypnotherapy training I did cognitive

[42:42] therapy tra- all kinds of different

[42:44] things, but the three principles

[42:46] training I did too. I became a three

[42:48] principles teacher.

[42:49] >> So what What the three principles for

[42:51] our listeners? What does that even mean?

[42:54] >> I know. I always thought that was like

[42:55] the three principles. What's that? So,

[42:58] they are actually mind, consciousness,

[43:00] and thought. But, it comes from um

[43:04] the Sydney Banks understanding that goes

[43:06] right back to like the 1970s along with

[43:08] Dr. Solano. These two guys, I think, are

[43:10] my legends, Dr. Solano and Sydney Banks.

[43:15] And um

[43:16] so, I didn't know about Dr. Solano by

[43:19] this point. I knew nothing.

[43:21] Um

[43:22] and so, I kind of got got into this

[43:25] approach, but what I was finding was

[43:28] I was feeling better, but nothing was

[43:31] changing with my symptoms.

[43:33] Like

[43:34] having the understanding with the three

[43:36] principles.

[43:37] Um so, like when you said, "What are the

[43:39] three principles?" Um

[43:41] it's a really lovely understanding that

[43:44] is not based upon a technique or a tool

[43:47] or anything. It's based upon

[43:50] um an understanding behind the truth

[43:52] about

[43:53] how um

[43:55] the mind works. Um

[43:58] And so, you could compare it with we all

[44:01] have thinking. We all have thought.

[44:04] We all have So, in the three principles

[44:06] understanding, mind is like the energy,

[44:08] the infinite energy, life force energy.

[44:11] >> Okay.

[44:11] >> thought it took me a while. I was like

[44:13] they said, "If If you only understand

[44:15] thinking, that's enough.

[44:17] You don't need to worry about

[44:18] consciousness

[44:20] or mind. But, just to summarize it, mind

[44:23] would be like the energy that's coming

[44:26] from the unknown source, like the power

[44:27] source.

[44:28] >> Mhm.

[44:29] >> Like Like what's actually driving the

[44:31] heart? What's driving the brain? I I'm

[44:33] quite scientific and quite nerdy, but

[44:36] um now I do have a little spiritual side

[44:38] to me, too. Um

[44:40] I'm not sure. I don't go too deep into

[44:42] these things, but what I realized was

[44:44] wow, yeah.

[44:45] You do sometimes have thoughts that have

[44:47] not been inputted. They come from an

[44:49] unknown space. They come from like the

[44:52] the bit that you can't go in there. And

[44:54] I'm like, "I do some dreams come up with

[44:56] something that I don't know where it

[44:57] came from?"

[44:58] >> Right, exactly. I think we all do,

[45:00] right?

[45:01] >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz cuz the brain can only

[45:04] really give out what I've got put in,

[45:06] can't it, to a certain extent. So, I

[45:08] used to be asking lots cuz I Well,

[45:09] what's the difference between your brain

[45:10] and the mind and all these things, but

[45:12] ultimately the mind is is the power or

[45:16] that's driving life itself. And then

[45:18] you've got consciousness, which is being

[45:21] uh the consciousness is being awake to

[45:24] the being able to have the experience.

[45:26] So, the consciousness being the senses,

[45:29] the sight, the eye, the sound, the

[45:31] feeling, um the touch, all of those

[45:33] things

[45:34] that we can't have unless we're awake

[45:36] and awake. So, if we're unconscious, if

[45:39] if I'm not knocked out, I have no

[45:41] experience. Or if I'm on aesthetic is

[45:44] the best I can is the only moment that

[45:47] I've ever experienced that on aesthetic.

[45:49] Um

[45:50] like I wasn't conscious. Um so, you

[45:53] can't have any experience. I don't

[45:55] remember having any thoughts when I had

[45:56] surgery. So,

[45:59] with without those three things, we

[46:00] don't have life experience. Without

[46:02] thought,

[46:03] again, how can we um

[46:05] the senses bring to life using

[46:07] consciousness and experience. So,

[46:10] without those three things, we just

[46:12] don't have an experience. So,

[46:15] it just really helped me to see thought

[46:18] for what it is and it allowed me to drop

[46:21] drop it and not take it so seriously

[46:24] >> Mhm.

[46:24] >> anymore.

[46:26] And um and then David Key, I shared with

[46:30] him that I was having

[46:31] um I'd been diagnosed with fibromyalgia

[46:34] and I told him about my journey. And he

[46:36] was like, "Jo, you've got to read this

[46:38] book." And this is where Dr. Sarno comes

[46:39] in, where

[46:41] he he recommended the Divided Mind.

[46:43] >> Okay.

[46:44] >> Uh I I I literally tried to do that

[46:46] while I was on holiday.

[46:48] Um it were it were more than 6 months

[46:50] later down the line that I finally

[46:53] went back and tried again.

[46:54] >> Mhm.

[46:55] >> Um because I was literally just in the

[46:57] cold shower all night not sleeping. I

[46:59] got on holiday thinking this is a good

[47:00] opportunity to do something new, but

[47:02] things were so high that I couldn't do

[47:05] it.

[47:05] >> Right.

[47:06] >> Um I thought I even thought I was going

[47:07] to try coming off medication that week.

[47:10] I'll come on holiday so I can handle it.

[47:12] I can handle whatever happens when I try

[47:13] to come off med

[47:15] It was a bit of a

[47:16] Um it didn't work out.

[47:18] >> Right.

[47:18] >> But then I went back 6 months after and

[47:21] found the other book, Mind Body

[47:22] Prescription.

[47:23] >> Yes.

[47:24] >> on Audible. And I just that's when it

[47:26] all started to happen. I listened to

[47:28] that.

[47:29] And I was ready to do something. And I

[47:31] started doing the scribbling. I just

[47:33] started doing chaos journaling. What

[47:36] What you're angry about? Took it right

[47:37] back to being

[47:39] as life could remember. Took it right

[47:41] back. Did it each day. Um The first The

[47:45] first day I did it I decided to do it a

[47:48] point when I was going to go get pain

[47:49] relief and instead I was like why not?

[47:51] What the hell have you got nothing to

[47:52] lose? You got I forgot to say that when

[47:54] the

[47:54] terminal fibromyalgia they just

[47:56] basically just said you're never going

[47:58] to get better. There's nothing. You're

[47:59] the best case outcome we've ever seen.

[48:01] Just be grateful.

[48:03] Um

[48:04] And I I there was something like saying

[48:05] no no please no. That was not

[48:09] not what what I wanted to hear. I

[48:10] actually was hoping they were going to

[48:11] say

[48:12] keep doing what you're doing and you'll

[48:13] get well.

[48:14] >> Right.

[48:15] >> Of course.

[48:16] >> in the beginning was the game changer

[48:18] that gave me enough to believe in this

[48:19] approach.

[48:20] >> Mhm.

[48:21] >> And so this is like for me it was

[48:24] unbelievable. Because within the first

[48:26] week I mentioned about that calf pain

[48:29] that I had. But like pain was gone.

[48:34] >> Really? From a week of journaling?

[48:36] >> It was gone.

[48:38] >> Wow.

[48:38] >> It was gone and I was like wow. And that

[48:41] had been my years as well.

[48:43] >> Mhm.

[48:43] >> And I was like I was hooked in enough to

[48:45] think there's something in this.

[48:47] >> Mhm.

[48:48] >> And

[48:49] And by the end of the week the symptoms

[48:51] in general were a lot lower.

[48:54] To the point where

[48:55] I did not take the pain relief.

[48:58] >> Mhm.

[48:59] >> I didn't have it anymore.

[49:01] Um

[49:02] and I was like, oh my god, wow. And one

[49:04] of my cuz my cuz I had clients, I was

[49:06] always already coaching people who were

[49:08] um

[49:09] active runners, trail runners, that were

[49:11] ultra runners. I was already coaching

[49:12] people.

[49:13] >> Right.

[49:14] >> Um but I would kind of coach them to do

[49:15] what I was doing like uh live with these

[49:18] things. When I look back in hindsight,

[49:20] I'm like, gosh, June, what were you

[49:21] doing? But I didn't know a better way.

[49:24] >> Mhm.

[49:24] >> And I had people that were really

[49:26] grateful for the help. I was helping

[49:27] them to achieve marathons, ultra

[49:29] marathons.

[49:30] Um but then because I was sharing what

[49:31] was happening with me,

[49:33] my clients were um

[49:35] having really rapid success. Some of

[49:38] them were like only 6 months or a year

[49:40] in, and they were having really rapid

[49:42] recoveries.

[49:43] Um they were like, wow. And one of my

[49:45] clients, he sent me the link for Dan

[49:47] Buglio.

[49:48] >> Uh-huh. Yeah.

[49:49] >> And I um and then I got hooked on Dan

[49:51] Buglio's daily videos. And um

[49:54] and I uh and then his book was just

[49:57] being launched. His own Pain Free You

[49:59] book was just coming out at the time. So

[50:01] I was like

[50:02] >> It was so good. And I've been having

[50:03] these incredible

[50:04] um epiphany epiphany moments with Dr.

[50:07] Sarno and mind body prescription. And

[50:09] things were feeling really good, and I

[50:11] was starting to sleep

[50:13] um because when the reduction happened

[50:15] with

[50:16] the pain in general,

[50:18] well, then I could sleep

[50:20] >> Yeah.

[50:20] >> again. And that was so amazing. Oh, that

[50:23] was like luxury for me.

[50:25] >> Yes. So, let's talk about the journaling

[50:27] for a moment.

[50:28] >> Mhm.

[50:28] >> So, I'm curious for people that are

[50:30] listening, and I really do believe

[50:32] everyone has to find their own path in

[50:36] this journey.

[50:38] So, just because you did something or I

[50:40] did something, we don't know if we don't

[50:42] have to follow mine or yours. We have to

[50:43] figure out what really works best for us

[50:45] and our body and what we need.

[50:46] >> Yeah.

[50:47] >> But I'm just kind of curious, was there

[50:49] like a system? Did you journal 20

[50:51] minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at

[50:53] night? Was it just you journaled about

[50:56] what you were feeling? How did it work

[50:57] for you?

[50:58] >> Yeah, there were no system in my my

[51:01] I don't have no systems for anything. I

[51:03] love that.

[51:04] >> Yeah.

[51:05] >> literally just grabbed a notepad.

[51:07] I'm that boy, and I did like him.

[51:11] I'm just looking at my notepad now to

[51:12] see if I can give you an example of how

[51:14] it might look.

[51:17] I don't know if you can see this or not.

[51:19] >> Yeah, we can see it. Absolutely. It's

[51:21] just like scribbling, right?

[51:22] >> I'm just writing.

[51:24] >> Yeah.

[51:24] >> It's actually just a pen on there. It

[51:26] didn't sound wrong. I don't even need to

[51:29] destroy it because I can just scribble

[51:31] all over it. So, because I don't write

[51:34] anywhere, I don't really love writing. I

[51:36] hate writing.

[51:38] I would have avoided journaling it, of

[51:40] course.

[51:41] >> So, when you say there's scribbling,

[51:42] there's no words there on that paper?

[51:44] >> No, no.

[51:45] No, there's no words. It's just a pen

[51:47] like a toddler.

[51:49] I'll see if I can zoom in for you to see

[51:50] it a little closer.

[51:53] >> Oh, wow.

[51:55] Yeah, it's just scribbling.

[51:56] >> No, no. It's just like a

[51:58] uh

[51:59] a scribble. So,

[52:01] I'm doing that while I'm just focused to

[52:04] handwrite in writing that would have I

[52:06] would have even been able to read back.

[52:08] So, I literally just I thought, well,

[52:10] what to lose? I'm just going to

[52:12] go and write back all the things that I

[52:14] had that potentially I'm annoyed at or

[52:16] angry at, all the things that have

[52:18] happened throughout life.

[52:19] >> Mhm.

[52:19] >> And I just went through.

[52:22] >> Mhm.

[52:22] >> And I didn't do it for long, maybe 10 or

[52:24] 15 minutes. And I only did it when

[52:27] things were really

[52:28] um

[52:29] going on.

[52:30] >> Mhm.

[52:31] >> So, I only did it for a week, not every

[52:34] day. I only did it every day for a week

[52:36] because I was like, "Well, this is

[52:39] Yeah, it was really strange. And because

[52:42] a lot of pain had gone,

[52:43] well, that next day, I was like, "Oh,

[52:45] I'm going to definitely go back and do

[52:46] that again." So, I just kept doing it.

[52:49] Well, at one time,

[52:51] I didn't count the time. I didn't do

[52:52] anything. I just probably filled the

[52:54] page of scribble.

[52:55] >> Yeah.

[52:55] >> And I was just thinking while I was

[52:57] scribbling,

[52:58] and then I realized

[53:00] I feel a little bit better. It's

[53:01] reducing.

[53:03] It would have been like the equivalent

[53:04] of me getting up and moving and walking

[53:07] around or going for it. I would as well.

[53:08] I could have done the same reduction.

[53:11] But instead I was writing. And um and

[53:14] there's been no resistance since. I just

[53:17] didn't want to feel like it. Sometimes I

[53:19] just feel like just scribbling on a

[53:20] piece of paper.

[53:22] Um but I don't follow any

[53:23] >> what you're feeling.

[53:25] >> Yeah, yeah.

[53:25] >> While scribbling, yeah.

[53:26] >> Yeah, thinking it out. Like just just

[53:30] kind of just

[53:31] It's like talking to myself. What I do

[53:33] these days is I do actually have I do

[53:35] actually talk out loud and do like a a

[53:38] conversation like a phone call because

[53:40] I've got basically I've been

[53:43] um It's called my digital mind. It's got

[53:45] everything all the

[53:47] all the content that I create, all the

[53:49] coaching sessions, all the lives that I

[53:51] do. And I've inputted all the data into

[53:53] a virtual digital mind. So it's like you

[53:56] can pick the phone up and you can speak

[53:58] to me. And um and but I I actually been

[54:01] training it. So I want to make sure it's

[54:03] like what I would say. So I actually

[54:06] pick the phone up and I just have a

[54:07] conversation with myself now. It's

[54:09] really interesting and fun.

[54:11] >> So is this an app that you have?

[54:14] >> Yeah, it's

[54:15] it's

[54:16] yeah, it's an app. Um and I I found out

[54:20] about it through

[54:21] David Key cuz he created one for his

[54:24] um business. And we got access to that

[54:27] so we could

[54:29] talk to him anytime we needed any

[54:31] guidance or supervision or whatever. And

[54:34] I created one of me so I now use that.

[54:37] And that's quite quick cuz I can just

[54:38] pick the phone and you can do it and it

[54:39] talks back to me. But it's a bit strange

[54:42] cuz it's me. But the voice is not exact

[54:44] so um I just use that as an approach.

[54:49] What you say everyone's unique.

[54:51] >> Yes.

[54:52] >> So

[54:53] we genuinely just got to

[54:55] try out different things. Try things

[54:57] that you would never Try the things that

[54:59] you don't want to try is my best advice.

[55:02] >> Mhm.

[55:02] >> If there's something in that there's

[55:04] some If there's some resistance in you

[55:06] that that's saying that you don't want

[55:07] to do that,

[55:08] then do it. Cuz I did not want to

[55:10] journal. I did uh

[55:13] I just hated the idea of writing.

[55:16] >> Yeah.

[55:16] >> Um but then I just caught My friend at

[55:19] work called it a page of rage, and I was

[55:20] like, "Yeah, it's a page of rage."

[55:22] >> that, a page of rage.

[55:23] >> Yeah, I liked that, too. Obviously, it

[55:26] like lit me up in it.

[55:28] It helped in the beginning, but it

[55:29] wasn't just all that that that it was

[55:32] like a

[55:33] very long process.

[55:34] >> Yeah.

[55:35] >> A very long process.

[55:37] >> Mhm.

[55:37] >> And I

[55:38] I pretty much did everything, you know,

[55:40] that you could do

[55:42] along the way

[55:43] >> Yeah.

[55:44] >> to to get to where I am today.

[55:47] >> Yeah, so you tried other techniques

[55:48] besides the scribbling.

[55:50] >> Yeah, all kinds of things, hypnotherapy,

[55:53] >> Mhm.

[55:53] >> um somatic movement,

[55:56] >> Mhm.

[55:56] >> um

[55:57] inner child stuff, all the

[56:00] visualizations, all the things on Cure

[56:02] Ball. I really love Cure Ball. I think

[56:03] that's brilliant.

[56:05] >> Uh-huh.

[56:05] >> I really find that useful.

[56:07] Um

[56:09] NLP stuff, because I trained as a

[56:12] uh

[56:12] master practitioner for NLP,

[56:14] >> Mhm.

[56:15] >> which is really lovely. Um

[56:17] all kinds of different things.

[56:19] >> Yeah.

[56:20] >> Um but as time was going on, like I

[56:22] joined Dan Brugliera's group. I was um

[56:25] in his group for 6 months. I went every

[56:27] single week to the group coaching.

[56:30] >> Um

[56:31] I did what Some of the thing I got I got

[56:33] so many ideas from his book that I was

[56:34] like, "Wow, Joe, I wore sunglasses my

[56:37] whole life." Like I had

[56:39] extreme light sensitivity.

[56:41] >> Uh-huh.

[56:42] >> Um I had all these

[56:44] uh sensory issues, and I was like, "I'm

[56:48] going to go out I'm going to I'm going

[56:50] to do this. I'm just going to go out and

[56:52] just peek out of them for the you know,

[56:54] bit by bit." I started running with

[56:56] >> even, right?

[56:57] >> Yeah, I started running without them.

[57:00] I could go out in the sunlight. I did a

[57:02] marathon in nursing, you know, just bit

[57:04] by bit things were happening. And then I

[57:07] was building up to running marathons

[57:09] again without any pain relief,

[57:10] whatsoever.

[57:11] >> Yeah.

[57:12] >> Which is incredible because the ultra

[57:14] marathons I

[57:16] I used codeine to get through doing

[57:18] them.

[57:19] >> Mhm.

[57:19] >> But by this point, I'm now able to do

[57:21] all those things without pain relief, no

[57:24] more appointments, no more injections.

[57:27] >> Wow.

[57:27] >> No more I I I want

[57:30] I've got rid of everything.

[57:32] I had acupuncture mats, I had special

[57:35] um

[57:37] like I had hot and cold plaster I had on

[57:39] all the time. I'd do special stretches

[57:41] every day. I stopped all of that.

[57:44] I did what Dr. Sarno said, repeatedly

[57:46] out the physical.

[57:47] >> Yep.

[57:47] >> I did take it quite extreme. And then

[57:49] there were a few days where I did have

[57:50] to give in and go, "You know what, Joe?

[57:52] Look after yourself today."

[57:54] You know, you don't have to be a

[57:55] warrior, you don't have to be a fighter.

[57:57] Like it's okay. And the self-care and

[57:59] compassion and

[58:01] learning to

[58:03] actually

[58:04] be proud of myself and a lot a lot of

[58:07] those things were big team.

[58:09] >> Yeah.

[58:09] >> Um there was there's so many other

[58:11] parts, you know, to the

[58:13] the puzzle that

[58:15] as time went on, things have got easier

[58:17] and easier.

[58:18] >> Yeah. Yeah, your your story

[58:20] >> I've completely banished that. I never

[58:21] knew that was possible. I didn't even

[58:23] know chronic migraine could

[58:25] I didn't believe Dr. Sarno when he used

[58:27] it as an example in his book Mind Body

[58:28] Prescription and he said

[58:30] that when it's first happening, you can

[58:33] just take a bath and and just

[58:36] ask yourself, "What do I need to

[58:37] acknowledge right now? You know, what

[58:39] does on that I love and miss?" I had to

[58:41] do that three times before I believed it

[58:43] was possible.

[58:44] >> Right, yeah.

[58:46] Yeah, I'm kind of curious because

[58:48] if it's okay, you said you used a lot of

[58:50] different things

[58:52] to help yourself get better and I did,

[58:55] too. I used a lot of techniques to help

[58:58] myself. It wasn't just one thing and I

[59:00] want our listeners to understand that

[59:03] they don't have to make healing a job,

[59:06] either.

[59:06] >> Yeah, definitely.

[59:07] >> want them running around from one thing

[59:09] to the next thing to the next thing and

[59:11] I'm wondering if you can just comment on

[59:12] that for a moment.

[59:13] >> Yeah, yeah, for sure because that is

[59:15] that is the big learning curve and I

[59:17] don't want anyone to have to do like

[59:18] what I did, too.

[59:20] Um, because

[59:22] you there's just no need for it, is

[59:24] there? The whole The The best solution

[59:28] is just not to fit what is just to

[59:31] to know that there is nothing to fix and

[59:33] that's why I love this approach aligns

[59:35] really well with three principles is

[59:37] that

[59:39] we have the innate ability

[59:41] there is nothing to fix so in which case

[59:45] I do do the different approaches that

[59:47] you would do

[59:48] anyway.

[59:50] So, for me, I would enjoy listening to a

[59:53] bedtime sleepcast instead of a podcast.

[59:56] It's called a sleepcast. Yes. Um, me and

[59:59] my husband and I'll listen into that

[1:00:00] together like it it it benefits, too.

[1:00:02] So, we put it on loud and we both will

[1:00:04] go to sleep. We'll do that anyway. Yeah.

[1:00:07] Um, like who I'm hoping I'd do anyway.

[1:00:10] Yeah. Um,

[1:00:12] I

[1:00:13] I had to stop doing a lot of things

[1:00:15] Right.

[1:00:16] that that were um

[1:00:18] what I would have classed as

[1:00:21] an ulterior motive trying to fix myself.

[1:00:24] It's And they weren't they weren't

[1:00:25] required. Um, because again, like

[1:00:29] that's part of what's keeping the

[1:00:30] symptoms alive and going is that

[1:00:33] unintentional fuel by thinking that we

[1:00:36] need to do all these things. That's why

[1:00:38] I like the three principles because it's

[1:00:40] no tools, no techniques, no approaches.

[1:00:41] It's purely understanding. Yeah. And do

[1:00:44] the things that feel good that you would

[1:00:46] do anyway that you love.

[1:00:47] Exactly. Exactly.

[1:00:49] >> have I gone a bit

[1:00:50] >> No, that's perfect because, you know, so

[1:00:53] many of us try to fix ourselves and use

[1:00:55] tools to fix ourselves instead of how

[1:00:58] can I support myself right now what I

[1:01:02] would do anyway. I love that message.

[1:01:05] >> I've stopped doing The last day I did my

[1:01:07] marathon it was back in January.

[1:01:09] I've stopped doing as much long

[1:01:11] distance. I've stopped doing a lot.

[1:01:14] Um, which is so lovely

[1:01:17] because it's freeing when you realize

[1:01:19] that you can get better by doing less.

[1:01:21] >> Exactly.

[1:01:22] >> It's powerful. It's just so nice. It's

[1:01:25] like, "Oh, I can breathe again."

[1:01:27] And I've so much more time.

[1:01:29] >> Exactly. Exactly. It's like just pick a

[1:01:31] few things that support your body, that

[1:01:33] make you feel good, that we should be

[1:01:35] doing anyway, like compassion,

[1:01:38] self-care, not pushing through accidents

[1:01:41] and taking the day off

[1:01:43] or a week off when we've been through a

[1:01:45] trauma. It's like really taking care of

[1:01:47] us the way we're supposed to be taking

[1:01:48] care of.

[1:01:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't

[1:01:50] even have running a marathon on my

[1:01:52] bucket list. That was never in my

[1:01:54] um, aspirations. I never even had that.

[1:01:56] It was literally I did it because I

[1:01:58] thought I was going to fix myself doing

[1:01:59] that.

[1:02:00] >> Exactly.

[1:02:01] >> And now I can run for the fun of it, you

[1:02:03] know.

[1:02:03] >> Yeah.

[1:02:04] >> I um, I'm I'm

[1:02:06] in December I'm going to do a 21-mile

[1:02:08] trail run at Sir

[1:02:10] Mo the Warrior. It's a Christmas thing.

[1:02:12] It's a fun thing. It's a festive thing

[1:02:14] and I'm like, I can just do it for the

[1:02:16] fun of it. I I've got nothing to fix.

[1:02:19] >> Yeah.

[1:02:19] >> And on the back of it I'm better than

[1:02:21] I've ever been. I've seen the usual pain

[1:02:24] going on in that SI area.

[1:02:27] >> Mhm.

[1:02:27] >> Um,

[1:02:28] it it's like like I can sit for hours on

[1:02:31] that.

[1:02:32] >> Yeah.

[1:02:32] >> I couldn't before. I was I was literally

[1:02:35] having to be stood the whole time.

[1:02:37] So, yeah. I'll um,

[1:02:40] I'll leave it there for you cuz I know

[1:02:41] we've been talking for a long time, so

[1:02:44] >> Yeah, that's okay. Your story was

[1:02:46] incredible.

[1:02:47] Absolutely incredible and I'm so happy

[1:02:50] for your journey and that you were able

[1:02:53] to share this with my audience. I really

[1:02:55] truly appreciate that. And I'm curious

[1:02:58] if anyone wants to connect with you, how

[1:03:00] could they find you?

[1:03:02] >> Oh, hopefully they'll be able to find me

[1:03:04] on the um, ATNS, you know, on the what

[1:03:07] do you call it, directory?

[1:03:09] >> Great.

[1:03:09] >> Um, and I can send you the links for my

[1:03:12] social medias.

[1:03:13] Joanne Lee Alderley, that's my previous

[1:03:17] uh, that's my maiden name, Alderley.

[1:03:19] Joanne Lee Smith.

[1:03:21] Um on Facebook, Instagram

[1:03:24] TikTok

[1:03:25] um

[1:03:26] LinkedIn I think I'm on all of those.

[1:03:29] And my website which is www.

[1:03:34] Seraphic

[1:03:35] S E R A P H Oh, I can't even spell it

[1:03:39] myself. S E R A P H I C Seraphic Active

[1:03:46] with an E on the end dot com. So

[1:03:48] Seraphic Active. It means

[1:03:51] Angelic smile cuz

[1:03:53] a lot of people kept calling me an

[1:03:55] angel.

[1:03:56] And I wanted to find a word that had

[1:03:58] meaning

[1:04:00] um to what I was doing and Seraphic came

[1:04:03] up and I thought, I like that.

[1:04:06] Seraphic Active

[1:04:07] So that's my website.

[1:04:10] >> Yeah, I love that. I love that. We're

[1:04:11] going to put all of your information in

[1:04:14] the show notes. So I just wanted to

[1:04:16] thank you again so much for coming on

[1:04:18] the podcast and sharing your story and

[1:04:21] being so vulnerable with me to share all

[1:04:23] the details. We really appreciate it. So

[1:04:26] thank you for coming.

[1:04:27] >> Oh, thank you so much. Really um hope

[1:04:30] it's useful for anyone listening. Thank

[1:04:32] you for having me.

[1:04:33] >> I know it will be.

[1:04:35] >> Brilliant. Oh, I'm pleased. Thank you so

[1:04:36] much.

[1:04:39] >> Thank you so much for tuning in to

[1:04:41] Beyond the Pelvis. If today's episode

[1:04:44] resonated with you, I invite you to join

[1:04:46] us inside the Pelvic Healing Circle. A

[1:04:49] supportive space for deeper healing,

[1:04:51] connection, [music]

[1:04:52] and transformation.

[1:04:54] And if you enjoyed the show, it would

[1:04:56] mean the world if you took a moment to

[1:04:57] leave a review on Apple Podcast.

[1:05:00] >> [music]

[1:05:00] >> Your words help others find this podcast

[1:05:03] and remind them that healing is

[1:05:05] possible.

[1:05:06] >> [music]

[1:05:06] >> Until next time, stay connected to your

[1:05:08] body, trust your inner wisdom, and keep

[1:05:11] going beyond the pelvis.

[1:05:25] >> Hey.

Laura Haraka
ArtistLaura Haraka

Laura Haraka is a mind-body coach, Somatic Experiencing practitioner and breathwork facilitator who helps people with chronic pain and related symptoms reconnect with their body's…

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In this conversation, Joanne Lee Smith describes discovering the mind-body connection as a turning point, specifically how she came to see links between her thoughts, feelings and physical symptoms. She credits this learning, along with the Three Principles approach and Dr. John Sarno's work, for changing how she understood her pain. The episode presents this as her personal experience rather than a universal medical claim.
Joanne Lee Smith's "page of rage" was a simple practice of scribbling her thoughts on paper. She describes it as an unexpected turning point in her recovery, because it gave her frustration and emotion somewhere to go and helped her notice patterns around her symptoms. The show lists journaling as one of the supports that helped her recovery alongside self-compassion and experimenting with different approaches.
Joanne Lee Smith links her chronic pelvic pain to a demanding period that included a difficult delivery, the deaths of her grandparents within about ten weeks of each other, and high anxiety. The episode explores how stress, life experiences and the pressure to keep going can intersect with chronic pain. It is one woman's account, so readers should treat it as a perspective to consider alongside professional medical care.
The episode suggests that constantly trying to fix symptoms, and pushing through work, family and training, can become exhausting in itself. Smith describes years of effort aimed at getting better, and reflects that she believed she could fix herself by doing more. The conversation argues that shifting from effort aimed at eliminating symptoms toward attention and self-compassion can open room for recovery.
The episode argues that healing doesn't have to become another full-time job, and that doing less can sometimes be part of moving forward. Joanne Lee Smith says she has moved away from many coping strategies that once dominated her life and found more freedom in how she lives. Anyone recovering from chronic pain should consult their own healthcare professionals before changing their routines.
The Three Principles approach is the framework Joanne Lee Smith specializes in as a coach and mentor, and it shaped how she understood the mind and the experience of pain. The episode describes it as a way of looking at thoughts and feelings alongside physical symptoms rather than focusing only on treating the body. The source material does not provide a full explanation of the framework, so readers interested in it should explore the approach directly.

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Inspire

Immune Support Affirmations: Words for Sensitive Souls

A close listen to Glenda Cedarleaf's immune support affirmation track: how its phrasing moves from body trust to boundaries, and why it clos…

9 min read
Nervous System Regulation: Orient, Touch, Breathe
Inspire

Nervous System Regulation: Orient, Touch, Breathe

Lynn Fraser's nine-minute practice works with three routes back to safety: orienting to the room, touch, and breath. Here is how each one wo…

9 min read
Calling on Loving Presence: A Guided Path From Fear to Trust
Inspire

Calling on Loving Presence: A Guided Path From Fear to Trust

Tara Brach's guided meditation on calling on loving presence: find the place of fear, listen for its longing, and let a source of care answe…

8 min read

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