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Inspiration

Temple Access Without Perfection:Compassion Over Gatekeeping

Radhika Das
Radhika Das
Sep 7, 2026
読了 約8分
視聴 · 8

A man walks out of Burger King with a double Whopper, extra cheese and bacon, then heads straight to a Thursday-night spiritual gathering. He sits in the room, mind blown open by teachings of Bhakti philosophy and a way of life he'd never encountered. Afterwards, he goes home and engages in what he calls "extra recreational activities"—a routine he maintained for months. And yet no one at the temple ever told him he wasn't welcome, never questioned his purity, never turned him away. That permission to show up as he was, rather than as he thought he needed to be, became the very thing that eventually transformed him.

This is the paradox at the heart of what Radhika Das calls "The Meat Eater and the Temple"—a conversation about spiritual access, judgment, and the strange alchemy by which genuine communities transform people not through exclusion, but through unconditional welcome. The question sounds simple: Can someone who has eaten meat, drunk alcohol, or engaged in other practices considered unclean still enter a sacred space? But beneath it lies a more urgent inquiry: What actually changes human beings? And what role should gatekeeping play in spiritual practice?

読む · 6セクション

When Standards Become Walls

The starting point is concrete. A friend refuses to attend the temple because they ate meat that day. They believe themselves disqualified, unworthy—not because anyone explicitly barred them, but because they've internalized a rule about purity that feels non-negotiable. This is where the conversation begins to matter. Radhika Das and his co-hosts Nanda and Stina interrogate not whether standards exist in spiritual traditions, but whether those standards should function as doors that lock or as guardrails that guide.

The hosts themselves sit in different places. Stina, who did not grow up in Indian traditions and came to these practices as an adult, offers a pragmatic view: "It's better to show up imperfect than to not show up at all." She adds a crucial condition—the person should be trying to progress, not using the temple as a backdrop to unchanged behavior. Radhika Das goes deeper, recounting his own university years when he was both devouring meat and absorbing sacred teachings simultaneously. The permission he received wasn't explicit approval of his lifestyle; it was something more radical: no one ever condemned him.

This distinction matters. In many spiritual traditions, there are genuine standards around the care of sacred space—prohibitions rooted in ahimsa (non-harm), respect for what is held as divine, and recognition that certain practices genuinely do degrade consciousness. The Buddhist monastery where the cows are venerated as sacred has a legitimate reason to ask visitors not to arrive reeking of the cow they've just consumed. But between that clear boundary and absolute gatekeeping lies an entire territory of nuance that most spiritual communities fail to navigate.

What Actually Changes People?

Here is where Radhika Das locates the real teaching. In his own transformation—from Whopper-eating Thursday-night attendee to someone whose consciousness genuinely shifted—no external force compelled the change. No one said, "Stop or stay out." Instead, people invited him toward something positive. They "told me to start doing stuff," he explains, "progressive active spiritual things. And then my unconsciousness kind of got corrected along the way and I started to desire purity to start to desire a pure life."

This inverts the entire logic of spiritual gatekeeping. The assumption that exclusion drives transformation is backward. In his telling, it was exactly the opposite: inclusion, combined with exposure to genuine teaching and community, gradually rewired what he wanted. The desire for a pure life became authentic rather than imposed because he tasted something more compelling than the alternatives.

The conversation also touches on the psychology of spiritual shame. Radhika Das distinguishes between guilt and shame—a critical move. Guilt says, "I've done something I probably shouldn't have done." Shame says, "I'm a bad person. I'm not worthy of being here." When temples function as purity gatekeepers, they inadvertently manufacture shame. They tell the person arriving after eating meat not that this action was misaligned with sacred space, but that they themselves are disqualified from belonging.

This is where the deeper teaching emerges: the one who is already pure doesn't need the temple. It's precisely the person conscious enough to know they haven't lived up to their own values—the person carrying some version of impurity—who most needs access to community, teaching, and the transformative power of devotional practice. Radhika Das puts it directly: "If you are impure, you qualify for bhakti."

Sacred Space and Honest Boundaries

None of this means boundaries disappear. When all three hosts weigh in, they acknowledge that context matters enormously. There is a difference between a newcomer from work who has no prior knowledge of temple customs and a family member who knowingly ate meat minutes before arriving. There is a difference between an introductory event designed to welcome exploration and the inner sanctum of a monastery where cows are actively worshipped.

The nuance they're after is this: if you're conscious and you know the temple holds the cow as sacred, and you've just eaten cow flesh, then yes—respect that contradiction. Don't march into that space carrying the bloodstain of disrespect. But a person genuinely exploring, uncertain about the rules, new to the tradition? They should come as they are. Meet them where they are. Invite them forward.

Radhika Das also raises an often-overlooked point. He may not have consumed meat or substances, "but I might have consumed pride. I might have consumed envy." The spiritual instruction to avoid impurity has never meant meat-eaters exclusively. It points toward consciousness itself. A person can be vegetarian and rotten with spiritual toxins—consumed by judgment, superiority, attachment to their own "purity." The binary thinking that restricts temples to meat-avoiders misses the entire point.

The Story of Transformation

Embedded in the conversation is the classical Hindu story of Mrigari, the hunter. Radhika Das references the teaching of Srila Prabhupada through this narrative—a figure who arrives at devotional practice still engaged in killing. The point isn't that Mrigari was permitted to keep hunting. It's that his spiritual awakening didn't begin at the moment he stopped killing; it began at the moment he was welcomed into the practice. The transformation followed from connection to something true and powerful, not from having already achieved purity as a prerequisite.

This is the lineage within which Radhika Das is working: not the lineage of exclusion, but the lineage of gradual, grace-filled transformation. The Bhagavad Gita itself, which frames the entire conversation, is delivered on a battlefield where Arjuna is about to commit acts his conscience finds troubling. It doesn't begin by removing him from the battlefield until he's pure. It meets him exactly where he is.

The Real Barrier

What emerges from this conversation is that the real barrier to transformation isn't showing up to the temple with meat on your breath. It's showing up with no intention to change, no openness to what sacred practice might ask of you, no willingness to be challenged. A person can be perfectly vegetarian and vegetating spiritually. A person can arrive carrying consciousness—a genuine desire to understand, even if they haven't yet aligned their life to their values.

The challenge Radhika Das and his co-hosts are articulating is for spiritual communities themselves. Can you hold genuine standards about sacred space—about respect, about ahimsa, about what it means to honor the divine—without weaponizing those standards against vulnerable people? Can you distinguish between someone who is exploring and someone who is contemptuous? Can you invite people toward something, rather than excluding them from something?

These are not easy questions. They require discernment. They require distinguishing context from rule-following. They require trusting that genuine teaching, combined with authentic community, actually transforms people more reliably than shame. And they require recognizing that the person who feels most disqualified from spiritual practice may be exactly the person most ready to be transformed by it.

Where to go from here

If you're someone who feels you're "not pure enough" to participate in spiritual community, this conversation invites you to reconsider. The barrier you imagine may be more rigid than what an authentic teacher would actually impose. Explore. Show up. Your willingness to be changed matters more than your current practices. If you lead a spiritual community, this raises a different question: Are you using standards as guardrails for sacred space, or as weapons against people who haven't yet found their way? Radhika Das's own transformation happened in a community that trusted the power of what it was teaching enough not to turn people away. That trust, it turns out, may be the most sacred standard of all.

Transcript

[0:00] You eat meat. Uh, like you're not

[0:02] allowed in. Now I was eating meat,

[0:04] drinking many things, smoking many

[0:06] things.

[0:06] >> Are we denying people access by saying

[0:09] you can't come if you have done this,

[0:11] that, and the other?

[0:12] >> If we know it's wrong, they know it's

[0:15] wrong, and we completely go, "Ah, Paul,

[0:17] just come anyway." They would go to the

[0:19] pub, have a few pints, and come back

[0:20] just in time for the pictures. Standard

[0:22] protocol.

[0:23] >> Guilt says, "Oh, I've done something I

[0:25] probably shouldn't have done." Shame

[0:26] says, "I'm a bad person. I'm not worthy

[0:29] of being here. And there's [music] a big

[0:31] difference.

[0:31] >> I may not have consumed KFC, but I might

[0:34] have consumed pride. I might have

[0:36] consumed envy.

[0:38] >> If you are impure, you qualify for

[0:40] bakti.

[0:41] >> I don't know. I think we might have to

[0:43] tell [music] you might have to put this

[0:44] as down as a radical changes his mind

[0:46] moment.

[0:48] [singing]

[0:51] [music]

[0:52] >> Hello and welcome to for soul's sake. We

[0:54] are here to try and serve you in a way

[0:56] that gives you an entertaining angle on

[0:59] bakti. An accessible, relevant way to

[1:01] answer some of life's deepest questions.

[1:04] A way in which you can find a path in

[1:06] this life towards a life less ordinary.

[1:09] Uh with me again is N and Stina. So

[1:11] grateful for their friendship and for

[1:13] their camaraderie on this podcast. And

[1:15] today we are hitting a topic which is

[1:18] going to get really really interesting

[1:20] because I think it's going to relate to

[1:21] many of you who either are experiencing

[1:24] this or have a friend that's

[1:25] experiencing this. But before we get

[1:27] into it, hit that like and subscribe

[1:29] button. It will share this conversation

[1:31] very far and wide just by simple acts of

[1:34] love by clicking that like button. The

[1:36] algorithm somehow magically shares this

[1:38] with more people. So please do hit it

[1:40] right now. Our topic today is the meat

[1:43] eater in the temple. To give you some

[1:46] context, um our producer Sunonny and

[1:50] Vira collectively were telling us how

[1:52] they have a friend who refused to come

[1:55] to the temple because they had eaten

[1:57] meat that day. They consumed some um

[2:02] uh foods that they felt weren't going to

[2:06] qualify them to go to the temple. Should

[2:08] they still go?

[2:10] That's maybe an opening question. And

[2:12] two, um, is it the same with all things

[2:15] that we consume? Like what about someone

[2:16] that drinks alcohol? Can they still come

[2:18] to the temple then? So, I'm going to

[2:20] turn to Stina on this one as our

[2:22] resident. Are you vegan?

[2:24] >> Yeah.

[2:24] >> Our resident vegan. Um, and I know Stina

[2:29] has got a lot of love for life, animals,

[2:33] and is very to give to also disclaim. We

[2:36] We are all vegetarian, and we're not

[2:38] really so fond of meat eating. Can Can I

[2:41] put it that way?

[2:42] >> I think that's fair to say.

[2:43] >> Yeah. I'm not going to promote

[2:44] [laughter] it. I'm not going to promote

[2:46] someone to go down Molly's and get three

[2:48] piece chicken and chips. Like,

[2:49] [laughter] that's that's not really on

[2:51] my uh that's not really on my agenda at

[2:53] least.

[2:54] >> She's a meat [laughter] eater. We're not

[2:56] We're not trying to get some chicken

[2:57] lips up in here. Yeah. All right. Cool.

[2:59] So, we're going to hand over to Stina.

[3:00] What are your thoughts? Can they come to

[3:02] the temple? Yes or no? If not, why? If

[3:05] yes, why?

[3:06] >> So, I think first of all, I probably

[3:09] come at this from a slightly different

[3:11] angle than the two of you because I

[3:13] didn't grow up with Indian parents.

[3:15] >> All right.

[3:15] >> And so, I didn't grow up with any

[3:17] traditions around coming to the temple

[3:20] clean. And this is all these all things

[3:24] that I have learned. Yeah,

[3:25] >> since the community

[3:30] I maybe

[3:32] don't shoot me anybody, but my view

[3:35] would probably be come to the temple

[3:38] anyway because it's better to show up

[3:40] imperfect than to not show up at all. If

[3:44] however

[3:46] you continue to eat meat every single

[3:48] day and continue just to go to the

[3:50] temple and you're not trying at least to

[3:53] progress or to change your ways to maybe

[3:58] show up in a better way to the divine.

[4:02] Yeah. Then maybe you should start

[4:03] considering whether or not you should be

[4:07] sort of coming to the temple. But I

[4:11] think I'm always a fan of this. You can

[4:15] show up even if you're not perfect.

[4:19] >> That's interesting.

[4:20] >> I agree.

[4:21] >> You agree? Yeah.

[4:22] >> Yeah. I remember when I was at Well,

[4:24] when I was at university and we used to

[4:26] go to the spiritual event every Thursday

[4:28] evening. This is when I was getting into

[4:30] sort of bakti philosophy, wanting to

[4:31] understand some stuff. And I was eating

[4:34] meat,

[4:35] uh, drinking many things, smoking many

[4:38] things, right? And

[4:41] um many things one one Thursday I had a

[4:44] I I went to Burger King and I had like

[4:46] one of those double whoppers.

[4:49] >> That's [laughter] what it's called,

[4:50] right? Double Whopper. Something like

[4:51] that.

[4:51] >> He's pretending like he doesn't know me.

[4:53] >> No, it was Whopper something. It's been

[4:54] a long time.

[4:55] >> Double Whopper cheese.

[4:56] >> Double Whopper. Extra cheese, extra

[4:58] bacon, the whole the whole shebang. And

[5:00] then I used to go to those events. I

[5:03] just love it cuz it was like absolutely

[5:04] blowing my mind. Just access to a whole

[5:06] new philosophy, whole new way of life.

[5:08] It was really challenging my mind and my

[5:09] thinking. And afterwards, I'll go back

[5:11] to my flat and engage in some extra

[5:15] recreational activities. [laughter]

[5:17] Now,

[5:19] that was just a standard Thursday, you

[5:21] know, that was the that was the thing.

[5:23] But the thing is, if I went to those

[5:25] events and someone kind of vetted me and

[5:28] said, "Oh, so what's your standards?"

[5:31] Like, you know, how pure are you? You

[5:33] eat meat. Uh, yeah.

[5:35] >> Like, you're not allowed in. I would

[5:37] have felt so

[5:39] uh disheartened, unencouraged and turned

[5:43] off at the whole idea of spirituality.

[5:45] >> Is this really the hearts and

[5:47] hospitality of the spiritual people?

[5:50] >> But no one ever actually so interesting.

[5:52] No one ever told me to stop doing

[5:54] anything. That's the re that that won me

[5:57] over actually. No one told me to stop

[5:59] doing anything. People just told me to

[6:01] start doing stuff

[6:02] >> which were progressive active spiritual

[6:04] things. And then my unconsciousness kind

[6:06] of got corrected along the way and I

[6:07] started to desire purity to start to

[6:10] desire a pure life. So I think it's

[6:12] interesting right like I think Sina you

[6:14] mentioned like if someone comes with the

[6:16] right intention and they want to explore

[6:18] then then fantastic

[6:19] >> and of course along the way if you

[6:21] really want to unlock the magic then hey

[6:23] there's a few lifestyle adjustments you

[6:25] got to make

[6:26] >> right

[6:27] >> I don't know guys

[6:29] >> go on radica

[6:32] >> I somehow feel that there should be a

[6:34] known standard for holy places

[6:38] >> okay

[6:40] [snorts]

[6:40] >> I think if if it was a halfway house and

[6:42] it was like a an event that was known

[6:45] for being a bit of an introducer, a bit

[6:48] of a welcoming, get to know Baki and

[6:51] devotional stuff, then I think it's fair

[6:55] game. You can come as you are, you know,

[6:56] cuz there's no expectation of you

[6:59] respecting a sec a sacred place.

[7:03] When it comes to a Buddhist monastery,

[7:07] would I have a double Whopper before

[7:09] going inside knowing that their main

[7:10] principle is a himsa?

[7:12] Probably not. And I think that it takes

[7:15] a conscious person. Okay. If if you're

[7:17] ignorant and you don't know, I don't

[7:18] think there's a problem there. But if

[7:20] you're conscious and you know that the

[7:22] temple is a place where living entities

[7:26] such as the cow are respected and

[7:28] woripped

[7:30] and I think that goes for most people in

[7:32] the nationality of Indian.

[7:36] I think you should avoid it. I think you

[7:38] should know that that's not the place

[7:40] where you should come straight after

[7:42] eating any sort of animal or uh having

[7:46] had any had any like substances. If you

[7:49] if you've had a drink, don't come to the

[7:50] temple.

[7:52] >> I think where the time, place, and

[7:54] circumstance element plays in is if you

[7:56] were bringing in a colleague from work

[7:57] and it was they didn't have any pre um

[8:01] prerequisite knowledge of that place.

[8:03] Cool. I I can appreciate that. But if

[8:05] it's someone that is from your family

[8:07] and you've just had seen them eating

[8:10] chicken McNuggets,

[8:12] then maybe say, "Look, I think we should

[8:13] avoid maybe let's not go to the temple,

[8:15] but maybe we can read some Gita at

[8:16] home." you know, do something like do

[8:19] something spiritual with that person.

[8:20] So, I think it's very situational. I

[8:22] don't think it's as black and white as

[8:24] saying everyone's welcome at any time,

[8:26] at any place. But if the person is of

[8:29] some cultural knowledge, then yeah, I

[8:32] think we shouldn't. Yeah, we should be a

[8:34] little careful there cuz you know, we we

[8:35] also get the karma there.

[8:38] >> Wouldn't you say?

[8:39] >> We get the karma.

[8:40] >> Yeah. Of bringing that person cuz if we

[8:42] know it's wrong, they know it's wrong

[8:45] and we completely go, "Ah, it's cool.

[8:47] just come anyway.

[8:53] >> It's it's a question of like you said

[8:55] you mentioned these halfway house spaces

[8:58] Yeah. versus

[8:59] >> the very traditional

[9:02] um temple space and they they they have

[9:05] their own you know nuances and purposes

[9:07] etc.

[9:09] Um I remember a funny story that next to

[9:12] Bakanta Mana in Watford just on the

[9:15] entrance road there's a big McDonald's

[9:19] >> and I know a lot of people used to come

[9:21] to the temple cuz it's nice you area

[9:24] parks sit down play with kids they would

[9:27] get a happy meal [laughter]

[9:30] from from the from McDonald's roll up to

[9:34] the temple and just have a picnic with

[9:36] the kids [laughter]

[9:37] and I It's like and these were like you

[9:41] know not ignorant people these were

[9:43] people

[9:44] >> they know they know

[9:44] >> and and I was always used to witness the

[9:46] situation and be like

[9:48] >> what went through your mind in making

[9:50] that decision [laughter] like what what

[9:54] went through your mind to think that

[9:57] today we're going to go to the temple

[9:59] but we're going to get a Big Mac and

[10:02] have a picnic with the [laughter] kids

[10:04] on the outside the temple.

[10:07] >> [laughter]

[10:10] >> I couldn't quite get my head around the

[10:12] logic there. And this is this is people

[10:15] very very aware of of temple standards.

[10:20] They're not alien to this. If it was

[10:21] someone who didn't understand, I totally

[10:23] get it, right? It's a nice pick to have

[10:25] a jolly.

[10:25] >> This is the point that I'm making. This

[10:27] is the point I'm making that if you

[10:29] know, then avoid it. But if it's like if

[10:32] it's someone that's completely new to

[10:33] the culture, then we tolerate because

[10:36] that's they don't know.

[10:37] >> Of course. Of course.

[10:38] >> Yeah.

[10:39] >> But but are we not being are we not

[10:41] being as compassionate as we should be?

[10:43] Like we should like why why shouldn't

[10:46] someone

[10:47] >> come to the beautiful place like the

[10:49] temple, right? Like like there was a

[10:52] there was a wedding at the temple once

[10:54] when I was living in the ashram and my

[10:57] family came. was some of my family

[10:58] marrying someone else. And the tradition

[11:00] in my family has always been at weddings

[11:04] is that it traditionally wasn't at a

[11:06] temple, just in a school hall or

[11:07] something.

[11:08] >> Whilst the wedding was going on, which

[11:10] would take for hours,

[11:11] >> all the guys used to get so bored cuz

[11:14] they were so uninvested in like this

[11:16] beautiful couple getting married.

[11:17] >> I've been there.

[11:17] >> They would all find the pub.

[11:18] >> Yeah.

[11:19] >> And then they would go to the pub, have

[11:21] a few pints, and come back just in time

[11:22] for the pictures.

[11:24] >> Standard protocol.

[11:25] >> Very standard. standard protocol in my

[11:26] family, right? And then I remember my

[11:28] mom, she used to be like so angry at my

[11:30] dad. She'd be like, "Where are you?

[11:31] Where are you? I'm at the pub. Like the

[11:33] photos are now like get here like you're

[11:35] so disrespectful, etc., etc." So one

[11:38] time there was a wedding at the mana

[11:41] >> and a few of my uncles from my family as

[11:44] they did they went to the pub down the

[11:45] road in Rattlet and then they came back

[11:47] at the end but they they stood in the

[11:50] car park and one of my uncles came to me

[11:51] and I didn't realize that they had gone

[11:53] to the pub

[11:55] and I said to my uncle I really want to

[11:56] show you around the George Harrison

[11:58] garden it's really beautiful like let me

[11:59] take you around and he's like no no I

[12:02] was like [laughter]

[12:04] I was like why are you so scared It's

[12:06] George House and Gardens. It's

[12:08] beautiful. I want to I've been living

[12:09] here. Like, let me show you around.

[12:10] >> You were a monk at that time.

[12:11] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[12:11] >> I missed that part of the story.

[12:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. And because I've been living

[12:14] there, so I hadn't seen them in ages,

[12:16] right? And he's like, "No, no." And I

[12:18] was like, "Why not?" He goes, "Uncle's

[12:20] been a bit cheeky." [laughter] I was

[12:22] like, "What do you mean?" I go, "We've

[12:24] been down the pub." I was like, "Oh, but

[12:26] you could see in him." He was like, "No,

[12:27] no, I cannot step foot further than this

[12:30] car park because it's going to

[12:32] >> it's going to, you know, I'm going to

[12:33] create impurities in this space." But I

[12:36] was kind of seeing it as like

[12:37] >> you can't stain Krishna.

[12:39] >> That's also true.

[12:41] >> I actually for me I think this whole

[12:44] topic and to the point of your uncle I

[12:46] think this whole topic is actually about

[12:47] shame

[12:48] >> and I don't know if you're familiar with

[12:50] Bnee Brown but she's a social researcher

[12:52] and she talks a lot about this

[12:54] difference between guilt and shame.

[12:57] Whereas guilt says oh I've done

[12:59] something I probably shouldn't have

[13:00] done. Shame says I'm a bad person. I'm

[13:03] not worthy of being here. And there's a

[13:06] big difference. And I think

[13:07] >> to your uncle's point, it's like he felt

[13:09] unworthy of going to these beautiful

[13:11] gardens suddenly.

[13:13] >> And I think coming coming back to my

[13:15] first point,

[13:17] >> I don't know like I get it. Don't

[13:19] deliberately go and do something that is

[13:21] offensive to the divine obviously

[13:23] >> or the community. Yeah.

[13:24] >> Or the community

[13:26] people around you.

[13:28] However, on the other hand,

[13:31] >> are we denying people access

[13:35] by saying you can't come if you have

[13:37] done this, that, and the other. And so I

[13:41] again I can compare it to recovery

[13:42] circles where if somebody turns up drunk

[13:45] to an AA meeting, they don't get sh

[13:47] turned away at the door because the idea

[13:50] is that even if you're drunk, you're

[13:52] still going to be listening to the

[13:53] stories of other people that are very

[13:54] inspiring and encouraging. And so you're

[13:57] still actually taking steps towards

[14:00] sobriety.

[14:01] >> Yeah.

[14:02] >> I don't know. I just kind of I try and

[14:03] see I mean I'm trying to understand what

[14:05] you're saying but also I see it a

[14:06] different way which is that so like an

[14:08] alcoholic and an AA recovery group. I

[14:11] think that makes sense because they're

[14:12] coming for the it's like a materialist

[14:14] coming to the spiritual place.

[14:16] >> But like if the AA person came not drunk

[14:20] but came with uh you know like a

[14:23] different consciousness like almost like

[14:26] u they wanted to come and deliberately

[14:29] you know harm someone or make a point of

[14:31] it then I think it's it's not that I

[14:33] want to exclude them. I just want them

[14:35] to be at least know that this is the

[14:38] only way I can think of putting it is um

[14:41] when I saw people at the temple and you

[14:43] know I cleaned the grounds after a

[14:46] festival so you see all sorts of stuff.

[14:48] Forgive me but I'm going to say I saw a

[14:50] used condom on temple grounds. I've seen

[14:54] uh weed in the in the reception area.

[14:56] Someone's left a packet of weed just

[14:58] there. So all right clean that up.

[15:00] >> It's all happening at the temple.

[15:02] >> It's all happening [laughter] man. And

[15:04] of course it's like I'm not out to shame

[15:05] and guilt people, but I think it's

[15:06] there's also there should be a standard

[15:08] of where um people should be a little

[15:11] bit more just like respectful. I think

[15:14] what the word I'm looking for is not to

[15:16] shame and guilt trip people, but to just

[15:19] remind them that it's it's a place of

[15:21] worship.

[15:22] >> And um like I I think that person who's

[15:25] drunk who turns up, they may not be able

[15:27] to help it, but I think people who eat,

[15:29] you can choose what you eat. I think

[15:31] it's not necessarily an addiction as far

[15:33] as I'm concerned or turning up, you

[15:36] know, um, yeah, under the influence. I

[15:39] don't know if that is really, you know,

[15:41] what we should know. We should know

[15:43] that's not a place I come to the temple

[15:45] for, if that makes sense.

[15:47] >> But I think there's also a difference

[15:49] between somebody saying, "I'm going to

[15:51] eat meat and go to the temple to create

[15:53] havoc

[15:53] >> consciousness." Yeah.

[15:54] >> Consciously.

[15:55] >> Yeah.

[15:56] >> But somebody might have accidentally had

[15:58] a bit of chicken in their sandwich at

[15:59] lunch. Yeah.

[16:00] >> And then in the evening go, I really

[16:02] want to go to the temple.

[16:04] >> And that's a very different

[16:06] time, please circumstance.

[16:08] >> It's a bit like that thing that happened

[16:10] um at at the the temple in Soho.

[16:13] >> Yeah.

[16:13] >> That the the guy walked in

[16:16] >> uh munching a beef burger in the

[16:18] vegetarian restaurant.

[16:20] >> Yeah. I think it was like chicken

[16:21] nuggets or whatever.

[16:21] >> Chicken nuggets or something. Yeah.

[16:22] Whatever it was. And

[16:24] >> but he deliberately went in filming it

[16:25] for social media to provoke the stuff.

[16:28] >> This is what I mean. But what was

[16:29] actually very beautiful about that for

[16:31] me was that nobody reacted. Every just

[16:34] everybody was just responded calmly and

[16:36] with kindness

[16:38] >> and eventually he was sort of asked to

[16:39] leave but there was nobody was like

[16:41] shouting get out or there was no it was

[16:43] actually I think they was being so

[16:46] tolerant and loving towards this young

[16:48] kid.

[16:48] >> Yeah. reaction. From a reaction point of

[16:50] view, I totally agree with you. Like,

[16:52] don't shame. Don't like when I see

[16:54] people smoking, for example, at the

[16:55] temple, I just kindly got to and say,

[16:57] um, this is a non-smoking place. I

[16:59] really appreciate people put this and

[17:01] 99% of people would just straight away

[17:02] put it out cuz either they know and they

[17:05] just grateful someone told them or

[17:07] they're being told and they've realized,

[17:08] okay, this is not a place for that. So I

[17:10] I definitely agree with you in terms I

[17:12] just think maybe

[17:14] um if you're watching this and you know

[17:16] something's not conducive to the

[17:18] particular space or environment maybe

[17:20] avoid doing those particular activities

[17:22] before

[17:23] >> I I I really love like um the example of

[17:27] praapad

[17:28] >> so the way he dealt with some of his

[17:31] early disciples remember he was dealing

[17:33] with like uh ultra ultra hiddenistic

[17:36] hippies right

[17:37] >> LSD tripping out everything. It was just

[17:40] the name of the game. And so there's one

[17:42] story um his name was Jay Anand. Jayand

[17:45] he was he used to make the Rafa carts

[17:48] for for Praabad.

[17:49] >> And under Jayand's hat I think it was

[17:53] him. Might get the story wrong but under

[17:55] his hat he used to have a packet of a

[17:57] camel cigarettes

[17:59] and he was making the wrath cut and

[18:01] obviously having a here and there

[18:02] just to keep them going. And then

[18:05] praapad found out somehow and he spoke

[18:07] to him and he and the advice he gave him

[18:10] remember this guy is making these wrath

[18:12] carts which is the chariots of god to go

[18:15] through the streets of San Francisco or

[18:16] wherever it was and praapad said to him

[18:20] um why don't you just try smoke one less

[18:22] a day

[18:24] >> just one less cigarette a day and then

[18:26] praad said something really striking to

[18:27] him so first of all the observation is

[18:29] that praad didn't smash him scream at

[18:32] him it just gave gave him a really

[18:34] practical solution.

[18:35] >> It didn't shame him.

[18:36] >> It didn't shame him. Didn't shame him.

[18:38] >> And then Praad said something so

[18:39] striking and he said he got one of the

[18:43] cigarettes and he said, "Are you going

[18:45] to let this get in the way of you and

[18:48] Krishna?

[18:49] >> This little cigarette, are you going to

[18:51] let it get in the way of you and

[18:52] Krishna?"

[18:53] >> That statement is really powerful for me

[18:55] because

[18:57] >> Praapad gave him enough taste of Krishna

[18:59] first

[19:00] >> to then show him the magnitude of

[19:02] Krishna experience. Yeah.

[19:04] >> And your little camel cigarette

[19:06] >> attraction. And that's why I think this

[19:08] with this whole shame thing if we give

[19:11] they understand the magnitude of this

[19:12] pleasure that all the other things in

[19:15] retrospect any conscious person will be

[19:17] like actually this is nothing compared

[19:18] to what I'm actually getting here.

[19:20] >> I love this approach. It's like it's so

[19:22] often psychologically he was so aware

[19:26] Sria Praabad of

[19:28] >> of how to deal with situations like this

[19:30] and Breny Brown's research centers

[19:32] around this that if we shame people it

[19:35] leads to isolation to hiding to

[19:37] pretending whereas actually that's not

[19:39] what he did.

[19:40] >> Instead he just brought it out into the

[19:42] open

[19:43] >> accepted it was loving and said but

[19:46] actually do you really want that to be

[19:48] the barrier this little stick? I mean, I

[19:50] love that.

[19:51] >> I love the challenge in that as well.

[19:53] It's like you really want this to get in

[19:55] the way of you and Krishna. It's almost

[19:57] like challenging, you know,

[19:58] >> and it's also just making it as

[20:00] ridiculous as a cigarette actually is,

[20:02] >> right?

[20:04] >> It's focusing on the spiritual direction

[20:06] rather than focusing on the sin or the

[20:10] >> Exactly.

[20:11] >> Yeah. It's focus on going this way, you

[20:14] know? So, I like that approach.

[20:16] >> Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, I'm not

[20:17] trying to I hope my tone didn't come off

[20:19] as shaming, but more a case of trying to

[20:23] set some boundaries in place. I think

[20:24] it's healthy that um not anything can go

[20:28] on anywhere.

[20:29] >> But yeah, I think there's also a

[20:30] difference between having standards and

[20:32] saying this is what we're working

[20:33] towards,

[20:34] >> right? That's valid.

[20:36] >> But then not expecting people to turn up

[20:38] already perfect. It's a bit like with

[20:39] children.

[20:40] >> We don't expect children to behave like

[20:42] adults or if we do, we're probably quite

[20:43] a bad parent. But

[20:45] >> yeah,

[20:45] >> like that you allow you make allowances

[20:47] for children to have a tantrum and to

[20:49] express themselves in ways that an adult

[20:51] wouldn't because they're learning.

[20:52] >> Yeah,

[20:53] >> it's too uh situational. I think in in

[20:57] the situation that our producer put

[20:58] forward, I think I need to know the

[21:00] person.

[21:00] >> I need to know their background. I need

[21:02] to know how much they know already.

[21:04] >> I need to know like where where their

[21:07] level of knowledge is at. you know even

[21:09] just what will what tone will be able to

[21:12] permeate that person's awareness because

[21:14] you speak to different people completely

[21:15] differently and um you can't speak in a

[21:18] uniform I don't think the the solution

[21:20] is outside the temple gates have this

[21:22] this and this as a rule for entering but

[21:24] I think um as almost like custodians of

[21:28] bakti in one senses or aspiring to be

[21:31] people who share this awareness um I

[21:34] think there has to be a level of

[21:36] explaining things on on the level at

[21:37] which people are that and and not just

[21:40] saying anything is you know

[21:43] >> yeah you know just like no we do have

[21:44] some standards we do have some

[21:46] principles by which we live by and

[21:48] according to that person you can explain

[21:50] it accordingly you can weave it and and

[21:52] that's the art of um I guess the most uh

[21:57] valuable uh sharer of acti is knowing

[22:00] how to frame something based on the

[22:02] person so yeah producer I hope that

[22:05] helps and I hope it helps I hope this

[22:07] conversation is helping you if it is

[22:08] drop us a comment below on what you

[22:10] think and and give us some ideas on uh

[22:13] what where you think we should set some

[22:15] standards or how we deal with people

[22:16] based on this particular

[22:17] >> topic. Choose Krishna not KFC.

[22:21] [laughter]

[22:22] >> This is like t-shirt central up in here.

[22:24] Start making t-shirts. I think we've got

[22:26] a Gita verse. Did you want to share

[22:28] something?

[22:28] >> No. Uh let's go to the Gita verse.

[22:30] >> Okay, let's go to the Gita verse. All

[22:33] right. So the translation for the verse

[22:36] 9:30,

[22:38] even if one commits the most abominable

[22:41] action, if they're engaged in devotional

[22:45] service, they're to be considered

[22:46] saintly because they are properly

[22:49] situated in their determination.

[22:53] One commits the most abominable action

[22:56] to forget about KFC.

[22:59] >> Yeah, I think devotional service. That's

[23:01] the caveat. Yeah, this is one of the

[23:03] most potent I think powerful verses in

[23:06] the Gita because I think it quite

[23:08] >> nicely encapsul encapsulates the

[23:10] qualifications to practice bakti

[23:13] >> and the power of bakti over your

[23:15] apparent disqualifications as well

[23:17] because it's saying bakti is not

[23:20] >> bakti doesn't stop in the way of your

[23:21] impurities um just do bakti and it's

[23:25] supersedes and will help you recover

[23:26] from all those things I think from like

[23:28] if we look at the history of

[23:30] >> bakti like let's go back to 500 years

[23:32] ago to Caitana and Nitananda

[23:36] they their whole premise was that if you

[23:40] are impure you qualify for bakti

[23:43] >> if you're impure you qualify

[23:45] >> if you if you're impure then I'm going

[23:47] to give you bakti you are my target

[23:49] audience because I want to give those

[23:51] who are the most disqualified the

[23:53] highest of spiritual experiences

[23:55] >> and so from from that angle I always

[23:57] think how would they have dealt with

[23:59] this person how would they have dealt

[24:01] with Someone who feels shame, feels

[24:03] guilt. Actually, Nitanandanda was

[24:06] extremely merciful. He was

[24:08] >> against people who are being violent to

[24:10] him, who were, you know, committed so

[24:12] much adultery, so many sins, so many

[24:15] sort of illegal activities, which it's

[24:18] too graphic to mention.

[24:20] >> He even gave them a chance and said

[24:22] >> they deserve the mercy. Just correct

[24:24] yourself now. So I think that's a very

[24:27] extreme example but we probably

[24:28] experience it uh in a very micro scale.

[24:31] >> This conversation has been quite

[24:33] purifying for me because I think I'm

[24:34] about to recount what I've just said in

[24:35] the whole episode.

[24:37] >> You know why? Because it says here if

[24:39] they're engaged in devotional service

[24:41] they're to be considered saintly because

[24:42] they're engaged properly in their

[24:44] situation. They're deter they're

[24:45] situated properly in their

[24:46] determination. One of the nine processes

[24:48] of devotional service is badam which

[24:50] means essentially to go on pilgrimage.

[24:53] Going to a temple is going on

[24:55] pilgrimage. And if someone makes a

[24:57] decision to go on pilgrimage, they

[24:58] should be accepted. Because even if they

[25:00] commit the most abominable action,

[25:04] if they're performing a devotional

[25:06] service, which is to go and worship

[25:07] Krishna on the altar, to worship him by

[25:10] giving the cows something to eat by

[25:13] going and honoring Prasad, that's

[25:15] devotional service.

[25:18] I don't know. I think we might have to

[25:20] tell might have to put this as down as

[25:22] Radikica changes his mind moment. I

[25:25] think we should accept anyone. I think

[25:26] we should accept anyone as they are

[25:29] >> because they're coming to perform

[25:31] devotional service

[25:33] >> from my so from my personal experience

[25:36] this verse really speaks to me as well.

[25:38] I started on a spiritual path through

[25:41] yoga asa and I didn't go to yoga asa

[25:44] classes for a spiritual reason. I just

[25:46] went to yoga asa because it was

[25:48] exercise.

[25:49] >> Mhm. And then slowly I started listening

[25:51] to what the teachers were saying about a

[25:53] himsa

[25:55] all the other principles. And then

[25:57] slowly it entered my heart.

[25:59] >> And as I progressed on this more and

[26:02] more and I guess as my heart opened up

[26:05] to the world around me and to the divine

[26:07] and to the way that everything is so

[26:09] connected, I actually became unable to

[26:12] eat meat because of the harm that that I

[26:15] associated with it. And actually,

[26:18] interestingly, when I first stopped

[26:20] eating meat, I didn't stop eating meat

[26:22] because I thought it was wrong to eat

[26:23] animals. I stopped eating meat because I

[26:25] didn't like how we treated the animals

[26:26] that we were eating. So then I figured,

[26:28] okay, the the biggest sort of influence

[26:30] I can have here is to just not eat the

[26:33] animals because then I'm not like

[26:34] contributing to their suffering where of

[26:36] course that now not of course, but it

[26:37] has changed me now. So now I don't need

[26:39] meat because I don't think that we

[26:40] should be eating other living entities

[26:43] >> or cause harm at all in any way, shape

[26:46] or form.

[26:47] >> Yeah.

[26:47] >> Um and and so this verse really speaks

[26:51] to me because if I had been told when I

[26:55] started going to yoga asa actually you

[26:57] can't come to yoga asa classes because

[26:58] you had a a beef burger for for dinner

[27:01] last night.

[27:03] >> Like I wouldn't be here right now

[27:05] sitting speaking into a microphone.

[27:07] >> Yeah. And

[27:09] and then I do get yes we do need to have

[27:12] some standards and we need to uphold a

[27:15] certain standard to purify places and

[27:18] but at the same time we can still do

[27:21] that even if one soul enters not

[27:24] purified and then it's like the

[27:25] sandalwood that we can be a sandalwood

[27:28] that makes the everything sort of we

[27:30] affect positively those that come into

[27:33] proximity of us with us.

[27:36] >> Yeah. I mean, even if I just think about

[27:37] like my attempted devotional service, I

[27:41] really try to be tolerant of when

[27:44] someone comes in a way that does not

[27:46] agree with my personal standards.

[27:48] >> Yeah.

[27:49] >> Like I really try to be accepting,

[27:51] really try to be compassionate. And um I

[27:55] think the the only reason why I think I

[27:58] would deny someone from the community is

[28:01] if they were destructive and if they're

[28:02] hurting other people,

[28:04] >> if they were being offensive on purpose,

[28:07] >> I think otherwise I think yeah, I'm

[28:08] going to I'm going to recount people.

[28:10] I'm going to turn my my decision in the

[28:13] other direction. Come as you are. You're

[28:15] all welcome. [laughter]

[28:16] Har Krishna.

[28:18] We've got a Leela here for you as well.

[28:20] We we I'm really enjoying these stories

[28:22] that we add into our

[28:24] >> I love the Lelos.

[28:25] >> Yeah, me too. I feel like they really

[28:27] exemplify how our baki scriptures are so

[28:30] relevant and they may speak from an

[28:33] ancient time

[28:35] >> but that they're still speaking to now.

[28:39] So this leela is called the hunter

[28:41] Mgari. Am I saying that right?

[28:44] >> Yeah.

[28:44] >> Mari or migrari. How I've heard it said

[28:47] many different ways.

[28:48] >> I've always said it mari. Regari. Okay,

[28:50] cool. So, this is the hunter Mgari.

[28:54] Not just a hunter.

[28:57] He would deliberately leave animals half

[28:59] dead because he enjoyed watching them

[29:02] suffer.

[29:05] >> Would he be allowed?

[29:05] >> Dan, that's an opening line right there.

[29:07] >> Yeah, I know. Deliberately

[29:08] >> ban him. [laughter] Shame him.

[29:13] >> Banned. Uh, deliberately left animals

[29:16] half dead because he enjoyed watching

[29:17] them suffer.

[29:19] He was living completely against dharma.

[29:22] And then the celestial being Naredamuni,

[29:25] he appears.

[29:27] And notice in this moment what Naramuni

[29:29] doesn't do. He doesn't begin by

[29:31] condemning him. He begins with

[29:34] compassion. And Naramuni asks Mgari a

[29:38] question. He awakens his conscience. He

[29:41] gives him something higher. And the

[29:43] hunter gradually changes. Not overnight.

[29:47] His profession changes. His habits do

[29:50] change. His heart does change. And

[29:52] eventually becomes so compassionate that

[29:55] he carefully avoids stepping on ants.

[29:59] From a hunter to not even stepping on

[30:01] ants. That's exactly our theme, I think.

[30:04] And um I think we have to just accept

[30:06] that transformation isn't instant. It's

[30:09] it's slow. It's gradual. And

[30:13] uh you know, it's like someone who's

[30:17] dirty

[30:18] and if they've gone into the shower, you

[30:20] can't tell them off.

[30:22] >> Can't be like, "Come on, man. Like, what

[30:23] are you doing? You're so dirty."

[30:24] >> Shout at the man in the shower.

[30:26] >> Shout at the man in the shower.

[30:28] >> You can't shout at the uh you know,

[30:31] >> the person the person at A&E who's

[30:34] waiting to see a doctor.

[30:35] >> Yeah.

[30:35] >> Why are you sick?

[30:36] >> Why are you sick?

[30:37] >> Yeah.

[30:37] >> So stupid. [laughter]

[30:40] They're already in the hospital. Yeah. I

[30:42] think that's where we land on this.

[30:44] Would anything else further to share?

[30:46] Maybe a hot take. Give us a hot take to

[30:49] end our conversation today.

[30:52] I just think when approaching any

[30:53] spiritual space um what is your

[30:56] intention and what is your determination

[30:59] uh to be there? I think if you use that

[31:02] as your

[31:04] little criteria and a bit of a bit of

[31:07] selfch check then I think you'll be

[31:08] safe. Um

[31:11] >> because you can uh you can't

[31:16] taint Krishna

[31:18] >> but you can offend him.

[31:21] >> So I think that's always a dynamic you

[31:24] have to be open to.

[31:26] >> Yeah.

[31:28] Stina,

[31:32] >> maybe it's just a nobody arrives already

[31:35] purified.

[31:42] >> I think for me it would be

[31:46] be hard on yourself, be compassionate

[31:49] with others.

[31:50] So try to live by a higher standard. I

[31:53] may not have consumed KFC

[31:56] but I might have consumed pride.

[32:00] I might have consumed envy.

[32:02] I might have consumed

[32:05] uh

[32:07] yeah something that that doesn't

[32:09] facilitate

[32:11] pleasing Krishna. So be hard on myself

[32:13] on it. Be compassionate with others

[32:16] whether they have or haven't. meet them

[32:18] where they're at and see them as uh

[32:22] another flower in the garland that

[32:24] adorns the neck of my lord.

[32:28] >> Nice. Har Krishna.

[32:32] >> Thank you for sticking around. We've got

[32:34] some bonus content for you now. A little

[32:36] fun game that's going to involve us

[32:37] again picking something out of a bowl. I

[32:39] wonder what it will be. Is it a

[32:41] question? What is it actually? Do we

[32:42] know?

[32:43] >> It is a question.

[32:43] >> It is a question. All right, here we go.

[32:45] Hot questions. Don't always hot takes

[32:47] some hot questions.

[32:51] >> A devotional rule or standard you used

[32:53] to be super fanatical about but have

[32:56] since softened on. [laughter]

[32:58] >> This is the most unfatical person I

[33:00] know.

[33:00] >> Yeah, I was just about to say.

[33:02] >> No, there must be something

[33:05] that you were religious about. religious

[33:07] about

[33:08] >> I don't know that there is one thing

[33:11] though that has changed for me is that

[33:14] when I first came into bacti and maybe

[33:16] came to the temple and I always had this

[33:18] assumption that everybody else was

[33:20] perfect and purified and I probably had

[33:22] a lot of feelings of shame around not

[33:25] feeling that I was worthy of being there

[33:27] or not sort of pure enough or clean

[33:29] enough and so I think if anything maybe

[33:32] and then you know as you started to get

[33:34] to know people I was like you drink

[33:35] alcohol alcohol [laughter] and you don't

[33:38] and you sort of you realize that

[33:39] actually we are all just on a journey

[33:41] and doing our best and

[33:43] >> yeah so I think

[33:46] maybe

[33:48] yeah just

[33:51] maybe maybe I was a little bit less um

[33:55] sort of willing to see the imperfections

[33:57] of others and now I can be more loving

[34:01] towards none of us being perfect

[34:05] >> whereas I think I had on that inner work

[34:06] myself, but I just looked at everybody

[34:08] else going, "Oh, you've got it all

[34:09] together." And you're obviously all like

[34:11] because you're wearing all these clothes

[34:13] and got these bead bags and it sort of

[34:16] felt like everybody was just very very

[34:18] spiritual and

[34:19] >> enlightened around me.

[34:21] >> She became cynical basically.

[34:22] >> Yeah, [laughter] I guess so.

[34:25] >> Yeah.

[34:26] >> No, I'm joking. I get it. I get what

[34:27] you're saying.

[34:28] >> Yeah, I think maybe. I don't know that

[34:31] you've said it before. or you feel like

[34:33] Krishna got a good version of me because

[34:35] I'd already been on a spiritual path for

[34:37] many many years and I had already got

[34:39] sober. I was already vegetarian. I was

[34:41] already so I think I don't think I sort

[34:44] of went into this and became super

[34:45] fanatical because I think often what

[34:46] happens is we become fanatical when we

[34:49] are actually so scared of slipping

[34:51] >> when when our practices haven't

[34:54] >> like made roots yet.

[34:56] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[34:56] >> So then it's all a bit wobbly and then

[34:58] we almost it's not mature and then we

[35:00] almost have to become fanatical because

[35:01] we actually so scared of slipping and

[35:03] you see it in recovery circles too that

[35:05] in the beginning people can be very very

[35:08] sort of anti-drink and would never go to

[35:10] a place where there's alcohol around or

[35:12] and then as you progress on that journey

[35:14] is like now I'm 8 n years in and I'm I

[35:17] couldn't care less if people drink

[35:18] around me. Um, I choose not to have it

[35:21] around because of the energy of it. But

[35:22] that's more of a spiritual sort of point

[35:24] of view, not because I'm scared I'm

[35:25] going to drink.

[35:26] >> Makes sense.

[35:27] >> Yeah.

[35:29] >> Nice.

[35:30] >> Don't know if that really answered it.

[35:31] >> I did. There's like two pieces of paper

[35:33] tape in here. One dramatic.

[35:37] >> This is the one. All right. Are we

[35:38] ready, peeps? [clears throat and cough]

[35:41] The spiritual book that completely

[35:43] changed your life. Yeah, I know that

[35:46] one. Uh at the age of 17 or 18, I came

[35:50] across a book called Coming Back. It's

[35:53] got the cover as a old man walking in

[35:57] through a door and a young child, young

[36:00] baby, toddler crawling through another

[36:02] door. It's it's two doors and one is um

[36:06] uh the end of life which signifies um

[36:09] the elderly departing and then new life

[36:12] coming from that same soul. uh

[36:14] essentially inferring that life is

[36:16] eternal

[36:18] and uh when I received that book I

[36:20] actually read it in one night I stayed

[36:22] up all night at you know teenagers don't

[36:25] really read but I was captivated by this

[36:27] literature and most of all I was

[36:28] captivated by the writing style of

[36:31] bakiva to swami praupad very direct very

[36:34] to the point very cutting through the

[36:36] noise and uh I felt like I'd just been

[36:40] disillusioned in uh in it's a very small

[36:45] book so a few hundred pages I'd been

[36:48] completely shifted in my consciousness I

[36:51] remember as a child actually um N and I

[36:54] would you know with sevenyear-old kids

[36:56] we would talk spiritual subject matters

[36:58] and I always felt that there was more to

[37:00] life I always felt that there was

[37:01] something a little bit more to this

[37:03] human experience and uh this book

[37:05] answered it in a nutshell that we're

[37:07] eternal beings uh searching for our way

[37:10] towards uh a loving connection

[37:14] And uh yeah, I mean it almost brings me

[37:17] goosebumps just thinking about reading

[37:18] that book because um you know there's

[37:22] moments in every spiritual

[37:23] practitioner's life that completely

[37:25] shift the trajectory of where you're

[37:27] going

[37:28] and I'd say uh Shila Praad's books did

[37:31] that for me. It completely I think my

[37:33] life would have gone in a completely

[37:34] different direction had it not been for

[37:36] him. I don't think I'd be married to who

[37:38] I'm married to. I don't think I have

[37:40] kids the way I'm having kids right now.

[37:42] A lot of how my life is set up has been

[37:45] from that one pivotal shift towards this

[37:47] direction. So thank you Shilapra. Thank

[37:50] you for that wonderful book.

[37:52] Over to you my friend. Nice.

[37:59] Okay.

[38:01] Let's open this up. Oh man. What is your

[38:05] go-to verse when you're stressed?

[38:10] What is your go-to verse when you're

[38:12] stressed? Um,

[38:15] this would be from Bhagavagita

[38:19] chapter 2

[38:21] and it begins with the Sanskrit matasa

[38:27] and the verse essentially translates to

[38:30] that happiness and distress in this

[38:32] world is like the winter and summer

[38:33] seasons.

[38:36] Um

[38:37] and it essentially flickers. It's

[38:39] temporary and a wise person can cross

[38:41] beyond this reality.

[38:44] Um that's just paraphrasing the

[38:45] translation there. So for me it's a

[38:48] verse that screams to me and says um

[38:51] this too shall pass.

[38:52] >> A very famous statement.

[38:54] >> Beautiful.

[38:54] >> Both in the good times and in the

[38:56] negative times. So when I'm feeling

[38:57] stressed out work, life may be

[39:03] just a fluctuation of time. It's just

[39:05] like the seasons which will come, which

[39:07] will go, there will always be something

[39:09] different. And I think that also keeps

[39:10] me humble in the good times. Um they say

[39:13] that when we get happy and when we get

[39:15] stressed, um it's both an increase in

[39:18] the same hormone

[39:19] >> actually.

[39:21] >> So um and I'm reading a book at the

[39:23] moment called uh Dopamine Nation.

[39:27] Unbelievable book. Yeah.

[39:29] >> Like I'm a quarter of the way through.

[39:31] Absolutely. Mhm.

[39:32] >> Just just blowing my mind. And it's

[39:35] about someone talking about um it's a

[39:37] therapist and psychologist and talking

[39:38] about their clients interactions about

[39:40] addiction and the science of it.

[39:42] >> And when she was talking about this

[39:44] whole receiving dopamine, there's these

[39:47] gremlins on the other side pulling you

[39:49] down, waiting to pull you down.

[39:50] >> Wow.

[39:51] >> And that just very much matched up to

[39:52] this verse that it's just the winter and

[39:54] the summer seasons. The opposites, the

[39:57] ying and the yang are always in play and

[39:59] they're always fighting for dominance.

[40:01] So yeah, I think that's one of my most

[40:03] favorite practical uh go-to verses.

[40:06] Thank you all so much for watching this

[40:07] episode of a soul sake. I hope it

[40:09] helped. You saw me turn and change in

[40:12] direction from being a banner to a lover

[40:16] and a compassionate person. And uh I

[40:18] think that's it's healthy. It's healthy

[40:20] to acknowledge that we don't have views

[40:21] that are always stone cold. No, it's

[40:23] human. And I think it's healthy to be

[40:25] able to be like that. And I'm ready to

[40:27] wear my error as a badge. I'm not a

[40:30] perfect person. Thank you so much for

[40:32] watching. I hope you enjoyed this

[40:33] conversation. If you did, hit that like

[40:35] button. Hit that subscribe button. Share

[40:36] this conversation with a friend.

[40:38] >> Share it with a friend that is going to

[40:40] the temple and eating McDonald's before

[40:42] they come.

[40:44] Maybe [laughter] don't. But either way,

[40:46] thank you so much for being here. I'm so

[40:48] grateful. See you on the next episode of

[40:50] For Sake. [music]

Radhika Das
ArtistRadhika Das

London-born kirtan singer sharing the devotional practice of Bhakti mantra meditation with audiences worldwide.

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Bhakti-practiceSpiritual-gatekeepingTransformation-consciousnessTemple-accessAhimsa

ご質問はありますか?

よくある質問

Yes, according to Radhika Das, but context matters. If you're new to the practice and genuinely curious, showing up imperfect is better than not showing up at all. If you're consciously disrespecting what the temple holds sacred (like eating cow before entering a place that reveres cows), that's different. The key is intention and willingness to learn, not achieving purity before you arrive.
Guilt says, 'I did something I shouldn't have done.' Shame says, 'I'm a bad person and unworthy of being here.' Spiritual gatekeeping often manufactures shame rather than genuine transformation. Real practice invites you toward something positive rather than excluding you because you're not yet pure.
Bhakti—devotional practice—is for everyone, regardless of where they currently are. As Radhika Das notes, 'If you are impure, you qualify for bhakti.' The practice itself, when genuine, gradually transforms consciousness and desire. Vegetarianism often follows from deeper spiritual awakening rather than preceding it.
Context and discernment are essential. A newcomer from work exploring for the first time is different from a family member knowingly disrespecting what the temple holds sacred. Rather than using standards as weapons against imperfect people, authentic teachers invite people toward genuine practice and trust that teaching transforms more reliably than shame.
Community and positive invitation. No one told him to stop eating meat or smoking; instead, people invited him to start engaging in spiritual practices. As his consciousness grew through those practices, he organically began to desire a pure life. Exclusion would have turned him away entirely; inclusion transformed him.
Absolutely. Radhika Das points out that you can avoid meat but consume pride, envy, or judgment instead. Spiritual purity isn't reducible to diet. A genuinely impure person—someone open and seeking—may be far closer to transformation than someone clinging to dietary rules while spiritually asleep.
Mrigari was a hunter whose spiritual transformation didn't require him to stop killing before he began practicing. It began when he was welcomed into devotional practice. His eventual shift away from killing came through connection to something true and powerful, not through having already achieved purity as a prerequisite.
No. That shame is a sign that gatekeeping has been weaponized against you. Authentic spiritual teachers understand that the person most conscious of their own impurity—the person carrying that awareness—is exactly the person ready for transformative practice. Your willingness to explore matters more than your current circumstances.

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