Transcript
[0:03] Welcome to the Spirit Led podcast, your
[0:06] guide on a journey to full enlightenment
[0:08] in this beautiful life.
[0:11] I'm your [music] host, Joan Hope Craig.
[0:13] Each episode we explore spiritual
[0:16] wisdom, life's purpose, and the profound
[0:19] impact [music] of daily choices on our
[0:21] personal growth and the world.
[0:25] Hello listeners and viewers. I did not
[0:27] give a formal introduction during this
[0:29] interview, so I wanted to take a moment
[0:30] to share about it now.
[0:33] Yogacharya Ellen Grace O'Brian has been
[0:35] a disciple of Kriya Yoga since 1979.
[0:39] Following in the footsteps of her guru,
[0:41] Roy Eugene Davis, she has been a
[0:43] prolific teacher, writer, and leader and
[0:46] established a meditation center in San
[0:48] Jose, California.
[0:50] She returned to CSA to offer a retreat
[0:53] in May 2026 after not having been there
[0:55] for a long time.
[0:57] This episode was recorded during that
[0:59] week and we're so grateful that she took
[1:01] the time to both make the trip and do
[1:03] the interview.
[1:05] What I appreciate most about Yogacharya
[1:07] O'Brian is the way she shares the
[1:09] teachings in a real,
[1:11] welcoming, compassionate, and inclusive
[1:13] way.
[1:14] She's a mother, a wife, a grandmother,
[1:17] and a working minister who has lived the
[1:19] challenge of maintaining a steady
[1:21] spiritual practice
[1:22] while living her regular life.
[1:25] She sets a great example and I hope this
[1:27] conversation benefits you as much as it
[1:29] did me.
[1:32] Well, welcome to the podcast viewers and
[1:34] listeners. Today is a really big honor.
[1:37] We're here at CSA again and today we're
[1:40] here with Yogacharya Ellen Grace
[1:42] O'Brian, who's a very long time disciple
[1:46] of Kriya Yoga and of Roy Eugene Davis
[1:49] and she's the spiritual director at the
[1:51] Center for Spiritual Enlightenment, CSE,
[1:56] in San Jose, California. So we're just
[1:58] so happy to have you on the podcast.
[2:01] >> Thank you so much and I'm so grateful
[2:03] for this work that you're doing um for
[2:06] all of our Kriya Yoga family. Um it's a
[2:09] wonderful
[2:10] thing. It's a great commitment that you
[2:12] have made and I'm happy to be a part of
[2:15] it. Thank you for the invitation.
[2:16] >> Yeah. And just for context, we're here
[2:19] as part of your week-long retreat, but a
[2:22] lot of the people who listen or watch
[2:24] this won't have had the opportunity to
[2:27] be here with you and maybe maybe they're
[2:29] even totally new to you. So, we'll kind
[2:32] of might ask you to repeat some stories
[2:34] you've already told.
[2:36] >> [laughter]
[2:36] >> And maybe you've told them many and many
[2:38] times, so
[2:39] um
[2:40] yeah, wanted to I'll just start with
[2:42] what was going on in your life
[2:45] when you found
[2:47] what Eugene Davis and Kriya Yoga.
[2:50] >> Mhm.
[2:51] Well, that was some time ago. Was a
[2:53] minute ago, for sure.
[2:55] Um
[2:59] that was 1979
[3:03] and um
[3:06] I had just turned 30.
[3:09] So, uh I was young. I was searching
[3:13] and
[3:15] I knew I was on a spiritual search, but
[3:17] I didn't know for what.
[3:20] And a friend invited me to a lecture
[3:24] that Roy was giving in a town very
[3:25] nearby. I lived up in the Santa Cruz
[3:27] Mountains and he was giving a lecture
[3:30] there in a little
[3:32] town called Felton, California in
[3:34] somebody's home.
[3:36] So, it was very intimate a gathering.
[3:38] Um
[3:39] but what was going on in my life was, I
[3:42] think, very common to many people, which
[3:45] was just a sense of dissatisfaction.
[3:48] And that feeling like, well, I had
[3:51] reached that place in my life where I
[3:53] had what I was supposed to have at that
[3:55] point, you know, I'd
[3:56] um completed my education. I was
[3:59] working. I was married. I had kids.
[4:02] And but I didn't have the happiness that
[4:05] I thought I should have at that point.
[4:07] So, I you know,
[4:08] I was looking into um
[4:11] you know, Buddhism. I was reading Alan
[4:13] Watts and but I hadn't read
[4:15] Autobiography of a Yogi. I hadn't gone
[4:16] down that road at all.
[4:18] And um so, I went to the lecture with
[4:21] Roy and of course, that was then a turn
[4:24] that I took that changed the direct
[4:27] trajectory of my whole life I wonder in
[4:29] a wonderful way.
[4:32] >> Well, and and what was that like when
[4:34] you when you met him? Did you have an
[4:37] I've I've interviewed so many people and
[4:38] some said that they just feel this
[4:40] instant connection or knowing either
[4:43] with Autobiography or with Roy. What was
[4:45] it like for you?
[4:49] >> Well, he he was my introduction to
[4:52] Yogananda. I somehow had escaped that
[4:56] um at that point in my life um
[5:01] but I was
[5:03] uh
[5:04] a thinker.
[5:06] And so, I was really thoughtful about
[5:14] what spiritual path I was pursuing. And
[5:17] so, let's say I was a critical thinker.
[5:19] Not necessarily in the best way, but you
[5:22] know, I was always looking for what is
[5:23] the flaw in this, you know, what what is
[5:26] not true about this um because I was
[5:30] very interested in
[5:33] something that rang true to me, that I
[5:37] didn't have to you know, accept this
[5:40] part of it and ignore this other part of
[5:42] it. And because I had seen that in many
[5:45] paths or certainly religions, um that
[5:48] was the case. Um
[5:50] so, what I discovered in the lecture
[5:53] that Roy gave was that I didn't have any
[5:56] argument with him.
[5:58] And that was a very profound experience
[6:01] that I felt
[6:03] um and
[6:05] um,
[6:06] discerned that what he was saying was
[6:10] true. It It agreed with my sense of the
[6:13] reality of how things are.
[6:16] And I also felt like he was speaking
[6:21] directly to me.
[6:23] And I know people have that experience,
[6:24] you know, but at that time I had never
[6:26] had an experience like that. I I had,
[6:29] you know, he was giving a philosophical
[6:31] lecture, the nature of reality, the
[6:33] nature of mind, how to meditate, all
[6:34] that.
[6:35] And I found that questions would come up
[6:39] in my awareness and no sooner had the
[6:42] question come up than he would answer
[6:44] it, you know, without me having to
[6:46] verbalize it. So,
[6:48] um, while there weren't, you know,
[6:50] lights or shakti like that that was
[6:53] happening, there was this
[6:55] powerful
[6:57] powerful,
[6:59] um, influx of
[7:03] the light of
[7:06] consciousness and
[7:08] truth that came from him. And I'll say
[7:12] one more thing about it cuz it's
[7:13] interesting in terms of what I was
[7:15] looking for. This friend had given me
[7:18] a copy of Truth Journal magazine and
[7:20] because I was that skeptic that I was, I
[7:24] looked at it. I looked at the title,
[7:26] Truth Journal, and I thought,
[7:28] you know,
[7:29] whose truth? You know, and who who could
[7:32] say that what their magazine is about
[7:34] the truth, you know? And that's because
[7:37] I had no sense at that time of there
[7:42] being these, um, different levels of
[7:44] truth, you know, absolute truth,
[7:46] absolute reality, and um, the mundane
[7:50] level of of truth that that we generally
[7:53] associate with is something true or not.
[7:55] So, that was like the first learning for
[7:57] me of, you know, what he was pointing
[8:00] to, you know, even with his magazine to
[8:02] call it that. So, I would say I was, uh,
[8:08] given such a blessing
[8:10] of
[8:11] this I just felt like the path opened up
[8:14] for me.
[8:15] Even though I didn't know what it what
[8:17] it was, I knew enough
[8:20] to follow it.
[8:23] So, that's what I did.
[8:24] >> Mhm.
[8:24] >> I'm still doing that.
[8:26] >> Thank you for sharing [laughter] that
[8:27] and
[8:28] I can relate to what you were saying. I
[8:29] think other people will, too, that
[8:31] it sounded like it sounds like
[8:34] before you met Roy, when you were kind
[8:36] of looking here and looking there, there
[8:38] was a little bit of vigilance.
[8:40] Like you were holding back from really
[8:42] giving your all into it. And then when
[8:44] you met Roy, it was like, "Oh, this is
[8:46] something I can trust."
[8:47] >> Mhm. Yes.
[8:48] >> I can trust.
[8:49] >> Yes, absolutely. And that has was my
[8:52] whole life experience with him.
[8:54] Um
[8:55] fundamentally
[8:58] I knew and experienced that he always
[9:00] told me the truth.
[9:02] >> Right.
[9:03] >> And that's a very rare
[9:05] >> It is.
[9:06] >> experience to have with anyone.
[9:08] >> Yes.
[9:09] Yeah, what a gift.
[9:10] >> Mhm.
[9:11] >> Wow, and that's what kept you.
[9:12] >> Mhm.
[9:13] >> Well, and then you were in California
[9:16] living there.
[9:17] >> Mhm.
[9:17] >> And you had family already, what you
[9:19] said. And so, he was already based in
[9:23] Georgia at that time. So,
[9:25] you know, we have this word in our
[9:26] tradition of atonement or this concept
[9:29] of atonement. So,
[9:31] how did you stay in tune I mean, I'm
[9:33] sure there was some gradual things, but
[9:34] describe the process of what it was like
[9:37] to to grow closer to Roy even though
[9:40] you're living across the country.
[9:44] >> I didn't know anything else.
[9:47] You know, I didn't
[9:48] you know, nowadays, you know, people who
[9:51] like at our center in San Jose, people
[9:53] who come there regularly, if they have
[9:55] to move away, they have a little panic
[9:57] about, you know, gee, I'm going to move
[9:58] away and I won't have all this available
[10:00] to me. And I'm like, I used to see my
[10:03] teacher maybe twice a year if I was
[10:06] fortunate. But it's how it was. And so,
[10:10] he gave us everything. You know, we
[10:12] always had monthly lessons, we had the
[10:14] magazine, and he would come to
[10:17] California and, you know, I could come
[10:19] here to Lake Mont Georgia. So,
[10:22] um I found
[10:24] there was so much
[10:27] I had a lot of work to do.
[10:29] You know, on myself and learning. So, I
[10:32] didn't feel like I wasn't getting enough
[10:35] from him and
[10:37] you know, he was so generous with how he
[10:40] made the teachings available um
[10:43] that
[10:45] you know, I just absorbed, you know,
[10:47] whatever I could and I practiced.
[10:50] You know, I had I had a really strong
[10:51] practice. You know, I just dove in and I
[10:55] think that made all the difference. You
[10:57] know, the sages in our tradition, you
[11:00] know, offer
[11:01] you know, kriya as the key to
[11:03] attunement. So, if you're practicing
[11:06] kriya deeply, you're attuned to your
[11:09] guru and I think that was the
[11:11] experience. Now,
[11:13] I had a lot of maturing to do cuz I was
[11:15] young and I was new to the path. So, you
[11:18] know, there was that, but in terms of,
[11:21] you know, feeling connected and feeling
[11:23] attuned, you know, that was that was
[11:25] easy enough, I would say.
[11:27] >> It actually makes me feel better to hear
[11:29] you say that you were young and you had
[11:31] a lot of work to do cuz I'm that way
[11:33] when I was 30 as well.
[11:35] >> Mhm.
[11:35] >> And I still feel like I'm young and have
[11:37] a lot of work to do.
[11:39] >> Yeah.
[11:40] >> Like
[11:41] it's nice to hear that from you.
[11:43] >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was kind
[11:46] of that came up in the informal session
[11:48] this afternoon, people feeling like
[11:50] well, if you're on the path for a
[11:51] certain period of time, should you still
[11:54] be should you still have any problems?
[11:56] [laughter] You know, should you still
[11:57] have any, you know, emotions that are,
[12:00] you know, coming up that are not
[12:02] positive. And, you know, of course we
[12:05] should. You know, we're here and even
[12:07] Roy would say, you know, we're here
[12:08] working out karma
[12:10] and we have the tools to do it in a
[12:13] positive way. So, it's you know, it's
[12:15] not that we aren't going to have
[12:18] uh things come up in our life, but we we
[12:21] have tools to deal with it and to, you
[12:24] know, and to be more skillful along the
[12:26] way. That's been my experience.
[12:28] >> Yes. Actually, I wanted to ask you about
[12:30] that. So,
[12:32] because I for me it's inspiring to hear
[12:34] real stories about real life and
[12:36] how people got through challenges. So,
[12:38] it could it be maybe a challenge from
[12:40] your personal life or a challenge you
[12:42] encountered on your spiritual
[12:44] evolution and and how did you grow
[12:48] through that? How did Kriya help you
[12:49] grow through those challenges?
[12:52] >> Well, it's been a long time, so there
[12:53] have been many challenges, but you know,
[12:55] the one that came right to my mind was
[12:57] actually one that many of us experienced
[12:59] at at the center,
[13:01] um
[13:03] which is that
[13:05] you know, after COVID, you know, during
[13:07] COVID we had to shut the center down and
[13:09] we're we're a location. You know, that's
[13:12] part of what we do. We we serve people
[13:14] there on site as well as globally
[13:16] online. So, shutting down um caused us
[13:22] to have to really uh refine how we reach
[13:25] people globally. You know, so it became
[13:28] a blessing in that way.
[13:30] Um and also then we went through a stage
[13:32] of arranging um our capacity at the
[13:35] center to have outside services and you
[13:38] know, like that. So, but then after
[13:41] COVID, you know, as we started to get
[13:43] started rebuilding again and welcoming
[13:45] people back. Of course, there was a
[13:47] second wave of COVID and we had to shut
[13:48] down again. But then after that, we
[13:50] started building again. There was an
[13:53] arsonist who set our temple on fire.
[13:55] >> Wow. I never knew that.
[13:57] >> Yeah. So,
[13:58] >> Wow.
[13:58] >> So, um
[14:00] >> Oh my gosh.
[14:00] >> the temple didn't burn down. So, we had
[14:02] lots of God's grace that happened and it
[14:06] wasn't a personal thing. It wasn't
[14:07] anybody who had anything against us. It
[14:09] was just a mentally unbalanced person
[14:11] who, you know, did that. Um
[14:14] but what I want to say in terms of how
[14:18] did the teachings help is that, you
[14:21] know, when you're a disciple on this
[14:23] path, you you do even though you I mean,
[14:26] that was like a blow to the heart, you
[14:30] know, to have the temple desecrated in
[14:32] that way and
[14:34] um and it felt really sad and it felt
[14:37] hard because we had just started to open
[14:39] up again, then we had to close down
[14:41] because there was asbestos inside that
[14:44] they had to, you know, clean all that
[14:45] out and all that. So,
[14:47] um but when you're a disciple
[14:50] um you really do get to lean into the
[14:53] support of God and gurus and
[14:59] I felt that there was so much grace that
[15:04] came during that time.
[15:07] Um you know, one, that the place did not
[15:10] burn down and we have a lot of trees at
[15:13] the center. It's like a little oasis in
[15:15] the city. And we were told by the fire
[15:17] department who was there in minutes.
[15:19] There was one person who was on site
[15:21] when this happened and they just
[15:22] happened to walk into the area and see
[15:24] the flames and call the fire department
[15:27] and they were there in like 5 minutes.
[15:28] So, like a whole big trucks, a whole
[15:30] city block of them. And they said had it
[15:32] been 5 minutes later, the canopy would
[15:34] have caught. And you know, so
[15:37] we just have you know, felt like we were
[15:39] being held in this in this grace and um
[15:45] but as a disciple, you know, as Roy told
[15:47] us, you're always looking at what can I
[15:49] learn?
[15:50] What can I learn?
[15:52] You know, I wrote a poem. I wish I had
[15:54] it with me because it was called um what
[15:56] to do when someone sets your temple on
[15:57] fire.
[16:00] Because, you know, it's it's the temple
[16:03] of your life, you know, and sometimes we
[16:05] feel like our temple gets set on fire.
[16:07] But the
[16:08] essence of that poem was you you stop.
[16:12] You stop. You know, and you and you
[16:15] breathe and you reflect and you open
[16:17] yourself, you know, to inspiration and
[16:19] to God's grace. And so, I can say now,
[16:24] you know, now that the temple has been
[16:26] rebuilt through an amazing work of our
[16:29] staff and team and
[16:31] community,
[16:33] um that it is so much more beautiful
[16:36] than it ever was before. The fire was in
[16:39] the back of the temple,
[16:41] in the back of the temple where people
[16:43] didn't usually go, in the backside. Um
[16:47] you We used to jokingly call it our
[16:49] collective unconscious because, you
[16:50] know, you have a space in your home and
[16:53] spiritual places have that kind of
[16:55] space, too, like where you where you put
[16:57] the things you don't know where else to
[16:59] put, you know?
[17:00] >> [laughter]
[17:01] >> Like the dividers for some kind of
[17:02] program or something, you know, so
[17:04] things were just kind of stacked back
[17:05] there,
[17:06] um which made some good, um
[17:08] kindle for the kindling for the fire.
[17:12] But now, there's an outdoor temple there
[17:15] that has been built. And um all along
[17:19] that back wall, which is the outside
[17:22] wall of the temple that was badly burnt,
[17:25] um
[17:27] Acharya Sundari's sister came, uh Steph,
[17:31] who is a mural artist, and made a mural
[17:34] of the Himalayas
[17:36] with the Ganges. And so, you go into
[17:38] this outdoor temple and there's a little
[17:41] 3D part of it that is a cave that is the
[17:47] cave of Lahiri Mahasaya that has his
[17:50] blanket and his little water pot in
[17:52] there. So, it allows us to have this
[17:56] beautiful graphic of part of the story
[18:00] >> And nobody even went there before.
[18:02] >> Right. Nobody went there before, and
[18:04] nobody wanted to go there before. So, it
[18:07] has been completely transformed.
[18:11] And um
[18:13] so, there was that time of feeling the
[18:15] grief of it, of waiting, but I think
[18:19] just also recognizing
[18:21] the activity of God's grace that's
[18:23] always transforming our lives. So things
[18:26] come at us, they hit at hit us, you
[18:28] know, someone sets our temple on fire,
[18:31] something sets our temple on fire.
[18:34] Um
[18:35] but there's always
[18:37] a transformation
[18:39] that's coming. And I know that.
[18:43] Um
[18:44] you know, and it was my role in the
[18:46] community, even in the midst of my
[18:48] grief, to stand in that space of
[18:51] testimony, you know, about the
[18:53] transformation that's coming.
[18:56] So, you know, I learned that from my
[18:58] guru.
[19:01] >> Wow, that's a great story.
[19:02] >> Isn't it? I know.
[19:03] >> I'm really remembering it.
[19:04] >> [laughter]
[19:04] >> I'm really sharing that one. And and so
[19:06] many pieces of it, just the the literal
[19:08] like, yeah, it it burned up the area
[19:11] that wasn't really getting used. And and
[19:14] so we can look at that in our life and
[19:16] say,
[19:17] oh,
[19:17] I think I need to let go of that anyway.
[19:19] Exactly. Yeah. And I I did hear
[19:21] something you said this week that I just
[19:23] um I really took away and I think you
[19:25] were talking about when we have a
[19:26] negative thought,
[19:28] you said, um
[19:29] what if I just let it go?
[19:31] >> Oh, yeah.
[19:31] >> And so that was really helpful for me to
[19:33] hear as well. Like when we're
[19:34] confronting something that we think is
[19:37] we have to struggle through. Yeah. Oh,
[19:39] maybe I don't have to struggle with
[19:41] that.
[19:42] >> Yeah, I often look at that as I call it
[19:44] my back door to surrender.
[19:46] >> Yeah.
[19:47] >> we don't know how to surrender, like,
[19:48] what does that mean in our tradition?
[19:51] And you know, of course it means letting
[19:53] go of that illusion of being separate
[19:55] from the source, but you know, that's
[19:57] kind of heady. And so, you know, for me
[20:01] it's like, okay, well, how does that
[20:02] show up in a practical way? And so if
[20:06] I'm feeling
[20:07] um
[20:10] constrained, you know, if I'm feeling
[20:13] that tightness, if I'm suffering over
[20:15] something, and I ask myself, well, what
[20:18] would it be like to just let it go, as
[20:19] you as you put it? To me that's a form
[20:22] of surrender, of getting back into God
[20:25] about it, right? You know, just letting
[20:27] go of the problem and coming back to
[20:30] divine remembrance and seeing what
[20:33] happens. That's kind of a
[20:35] surrender practice for me.
[20:36] >> I really appreciate that cuz surrender
[20:38] can all of the concepts can seem
[20:41] like concepts until we have something
[20:43] practical like that. Like, oh, there's a
[20:45] question I can ask myself. So, I really
[20:47] appreciated that.
[20:48] >> Yeah. Sometimes you say, "Well, what if
[20:50] I just let it go?" And then another part
[20:52] of it says, "No."
[20:54] >> [laughter]
[20:54] >> I'm not ready.
[20:56] >> I don't want I can't let that go. I
[20:57] don't want to
[20:59] >> Right.
[20:59] >> And we just keep asking, "Well, oh,
[21:01] that's curious. Why?"
[21:03] >> [laughter]
[21:03] >> Yeah.
[21:03] >> Mhm.
[21:05] >> I wanted to give you an opportunity. I
[21:06] know you've had many opportunities to
[21:08] share, but any stories that you wanted
[21:10] to tell us about your time with Roy. It
[21:12] could have been from the beginning, the
[21:13] middle, or and anywhere along the way
[21:16] that that you'd like to share with the
[21:18] listeners.
[21:19] >> Mhm.
[21:28] >> Well,
[21:32] >> there are there are a lot and of course
[21:35] some of them are personal and
[21:37] um
[21:40] and I've already said, which stayed true
[21:43] for me, that
[21:45] I always trusted
[21:47] that he would give me the truth in terms
[21:50] of the teachings, in terms of what he
[21:52] knew,
[21:53] and you know, and between us and
[21:57] and that was a great, great gift. And
[22:00] there were times when I had um
[22:04] let's call them {quote} {unquote}
[22:06] spiritual experiences in his presence.
[22:09] Um
[22:11] And
[22:13] very often I would tell him about it and
[22:17] you know, just sort of asking like what
[22:19] was his role in that, you know? And he
[22:21] would even say he didn't know.
[22:23] You you that and it
[22:26] it
[22:27] out to me that he wasn't doing anything,
[22:30] but he would show up as this
[22:34] conduit,
[22:35] you know, for for God, for the masters
[22:38] that
[22:40] allowed, you know, it is it arranged
[22:42] conditions for, you know, whatever the
[22:45] disciple was ready for, you know, to
[22:48] to experience that. I had a very sweet
[22:51] experience one time that I remember very
[22:53] well. You might remember the story that,
[22:56] you know, he often told about uh
[22:59] when he was with Paramahansa Yogananda
[23:02] and uh
[23:04] he asked Paramahansaji to show him the
[23:07] inner light.
[23:08] >> Yeah.
[23:09] >> And that story, yeah, and he had him
[23:10] look into his third eye and and then he
[23:13] had this, you know, vision of the
[23:16] brilliant light at the at the third eye.
[23:19] So, one time I was in the temple with
[23:21] Roy and he was he was at a kriya
[23:24] ceremony and he was sharing that story
[23:28] about Paramahansaji asking him to show
[23:31] him the light and then having this
[23:32] vision of Yogananda there. So, I'm just
[23:35] sitting in my chair listening, so I just
[23:37] made the prayer, you know, I just asked
[23:40] Roy, would he show me the light?
[23:43] >> Silently.
[23:44] >> Silently.
[23:45] And there it came, this beautiful,
[23:49] luminous, full, radiant moon light.
[23:54] That was absolutely
[23:57] breathtaking and and unmistakable in
[23:59] terms of what it was.
[24:01] Um
[24:03] but I you know, and I told him about it
[24:05] and, you know, he didn't he wasn't aware
[24:08] that that was my experience.
[24:10] >> But he didn't say, "Oh, yeah, I got your
[24:12] message."
[24:12] >> Right. No. [laughter]
[24:13] >> And and at 10:31 I sent it in there.
[24:16] >> Right. Um but there was again that
[24:18] attunement
[24:20] and, you know, just him being that
[24:22] conduit and at that particular point,
[24:25] you know, for me being receptive.
[24:28] >> Mhm.
[24:28] >> Um you know, that prayer of the heart
[24:30] that was so that was so earnest and and
[24:33] just like Roy said when he talked about
[24:35] that light that that Yogananda showed,
[24:38] he said, you know, I saw it wasn't so
[24:40] easy to make it come back at will. And
[24:42] that was my my same experience is like,
[24:45] okay, I've done that. Let's do it some
[24:47] more. No, it just it's a it's a matter
[24:50] of grace, you know, when those things
[24:52] >> Right time.
[24:52] >> when those things happen.
[24:53] >> Right place, right time.
[24:55] >> Exactly.
[24:56] >> for sharing all of that.
[24:58] Um, I have a question that is a bit
[25:01] personal and it it may sound
[25:04] a bit ignorant at the beginning. I like
[25:06] I want to preface it by saying, I know
[25:08] that we're all units of divine
[25:11] consciousness and I feel that
[25:13] not just know it intellectually. And
[25:16] sometimes I look at the gurus and think,
[25:19] they're all guys.
[25:21] And sometimes I feel that maybe I
[25:24] experience something different as a
[25:25] woman, you know, in my physical body.
[25:28] Could be emotional, could be hormones.
[25:30] So, I just wanted to talk about that
[25:31] briefly if you would say, did you have
[25:33] any advice for women on the path that
[25:37] then maybe
[25:39] maybe the
[25:40] the gentlemen didn't pass it down to us
[25:42] in words.
[25:44] Again, my question may seem silly, but
[25:46] it has been something I've wondered.
[25:52] >> Well, you know, we have certainly been
[25:54] taught in our tradition that it's the
[25:57] same self, it's the same soul, you know,
[25:59] in dwelling all of us. But it's true
[26:01] that our experience is different.
[26:04] And um
[26:11] you know, for me
[26:14] standing in my role as a teacher in this
[26:17] tradition,
[26:18] um
[26:19] it's interesting to be in a female body
[26:22] because we we look at the lineage and
[26:24] they're all male.
[26:27] Um, and
[26:28] >> [laughter]
[26:28] >> I have to tell you a good story about
[26:30] this. So, one time So, when when our
[26:33] ministers go to give the service, you
[26:35] know, we we stand in the back. We have a
[26:37] little minister's area in the back of
[26:39] the temple where we pray.
[26:42] And um it's a little joke. It's it
[26:44] hopefully it's not offensive, but it it
[26:46] was really good at the time. So, we were
[26:48] standing there having a prayer
[26:50] and um
[26:52] one of the ministers said
[26:55] she said I because they were all female.
[26:58] All the ministers female at that moment.
[27:01] You know, they're not all female at the
[27:03] center, but at that moment they were I
[27:05] don't know about four or five of us
[27:06] standing there.
[27:07] And she she
[27:09] you know, we finished our prayer and she
[27:10] said
[27:11] she said I I had a thought that Lahiri
[27:14] Mahasaya was looking out there and
[27:15] saying, "What are all those women doing
[27:17] there?"
[27:18] >> [laughter]
[27:20] >> So,
[27:21] so it was kind of it's kind of like
[27:24] that. Like we haven't really seen I mean
[27:26] we we certainly saw Daya Mata um
[27:29] and from SRF who is a great inspiration
[27:32] for us, but we don't have not seen, you
[27:34] know, too many women leaders until this
[27:37] generation. So, there's that. You know,
[27:40] who do we look to as a as a role model?
[27:43] But I think whether male or female
[27:46] um
[27:47] it it does come down to
[27:51] how do we
[27:54] how can we be our authentic self and
[27:57] still
[27:58] uh emulate the guru.
[28:01] So, you know, Roy always taught us that
[28:04] you know, you are to emulate the gurus
[28:07] and certainly not to imitate.
[28:09] Um so, in that way I think for women we
[28:13] have a blessing because we already know
[28:15] there's going to be a different way
[28:16] we're going to express
[28:18] um because early on I saw some of my
[28:20] brother disciples
[28:22] um engage in imitating. So, they would
[28:25] either
[28:26] talk like Roy or they would walk like
[28:29] Roy and you know, as some say, "It's
[28:31] okay, you know, like fake it till you
[28:33] make it. But for for a woman, you could
[28:37] you you couldn't really do that. Um but
[28:39] you're still left with that question.
[28:42] You know, I think all of us are. You
[28:44] know, what is it like to live
[28:48] the teachings and to carry the energy of
[28:51] the lineage of Kriya Yoga that has
[28:54] blessed us and honored us
[28:56] in this body-mind, in this situation, in
[28:59] this life in an authentic way? Cuz
[29:02] that's the only way we can do it with
[29:04] any kind of
[29:06] grace and power. You know, we can't try
[29:09] to be like anybody else. Well, we do
[29:11] try. I mean, I did try and that didn't
[29:14] work.
[29:15] So, um and maybe with age there's a
[29:17] little more ease that comes. I don't
[29:20] know.
[29:21] So, I don't think I answered your
[29:22] question, but that's the best I have.
[29:24] >> though.
[29:25] No, no, I and I know I know deep down,
[29:28] of course, what you're saying is the
[29:30] truth. So, I just thought, you know,
[29:31] that you're a mother, too. And so,
[29:33] that's a you know, that's a role that
[29:35] the other gurus in our lineage didn't
[29:37] didn't didn't play that role in the
[29:39] outer in the outer We have our I do like
[29:42] the way the analogy of we're actors in a
[29:44] play, right? So,
[29:46] um
[29:47] Yeah, would you like to speak to mothers
[29:49] for a moment? Just being someone that's
[29:51] walked the path this long and is a
[29:53] mother. I think it's useful.
[29:55] >> Well, I think Yeah, I mean, it for me,
[29:59] I'm I definitely have mother energy.
[30:04] And uh
[30:05] And so, I often think of Yogananda, you
[30:07] know, who loved divine mother and um
[30:11] that we should see all women, you know,
[30:13] as divine mother.
[30:15] So, um
[30:19] I think that being a mother, you know,
[30:22] it was an initiation for me, you know,
[30:24] be a spiritual initiation becoming a
[30:26] mother.
[30:28] When I had my daughter, my first child,
[30:31] I was very, very young and held her,
[30:36] I felt my heart absolutely break open
[30:41] and
[30:42] it wasn't just being responsible for
[30:45] this tiny girl
[30:47] and myself still being a girl, really.
[30:50] Um
[30:51] but it was that
[30:54] I knew that I wanted to care for her.
[30:57] You know, I wanted to feed her. I wanted
[30:58] her to have what she needed. And I had
[31:01] this overwhelming
[31:03] feeling that that's what every mother in
[31:07] the world wants. Every mother in the
[31:09] world. There isn't one mother that, you
[31:11] know, in my feeling and sense it doesn't
[31:13] feel that urge to want to care for this
[31:17] life. And so I think that also was a
[31:21] um
[31:22] an impetus to my trajectory of service.
[31:29] My daughter initiated me.
[31:31] >> Yes. Thank you for sharing that. That's
[31:33] beautiful. Yeah, I just thought it might
[31:36] it might inspire someone. Maybe there's
[31:38] a young mother out there that's
[31:39] listening and is, you know, wanting to
[31:41] practice Kriya Yoga as well and
[31:43] that might inspire them.
[31:45] >> It's really hard to balance, you know,
[31:47] really hard. But life in whatever stage
[31:50] you're in
[31:51] is hard to balance, I think, you know.
[31:54] Um
[31:55] they're just
[31:57] things that you have to deal with, um
[31:59] regardless of the age of your children.
[32:01] But, you know, I was not very graceful
[32:04] as a young mother on the
[32:06] Kriya path, you know. I
[32:09] I would I would get very upset, you
[32:12] know, when my children would interrupt
[32:13] me when I was trying to meditate.
[32:14] [snorts]
[32:15] >> [laughter]
[32:16] >> It's like for them, you know,
[32:18] I feel like I'm supposed to be
[32:19] developing my calm and
[32:21] clear and compassionate self and they
[32:23] would come in the door and be
[32:26] >> [laughter]
[32:27] >> So,
[32:28] you know, I had to learn how to balance
[32:31] that out. And there are things that you
[32:33] do. You invite them in for a period of
[32:35] time, you know, things like that. But I
[32:36] did I didn't have any guidance on that.
[32:38] So I was just
[32:40] fumbling along through it.
[32:41] >> You learn by doing.
[32:42] >> Yeah, and my children survived and they
[32:44] still love me, so that's good.
[32:46] >> [clears throat]
[32:46] >> They They turned out great. Yeah.
[32:48] >> Well, thank you for sharing. I know it's
[32:50] personal lives, but I
[32:51] I just thought it might inspire some
[32:53] other people to hear it. It gave me a
[32:55] tear. So, that's good. Well, there's so
[32:58] much wisdom that you've shared and so
[33:00] we'll just can't go into everything this
[33:02] minute, but we'll just call out for the
[33:04] listeners that we're going to link your
[33:07] website and you have books and you have
[33:09] podcasts and you have a YouTube channel
[33:11] and you have a center in San Jose. So,
[33:13] we'll definitely direct people to that
[33:15] to to learn more about
[33:17] the way that you teach Kriya Yoga and
[33:20] and benefit from it. But, as we're just
[33:22] sort of moving towards wrapping up,
[33:23] though I don't want to rush it. So, if
[33:25] there's anything else that you wanted to
[33:27] say to people who are maybe long-time
[33:30] disciples as well, but maybe also just
[33:32] finding this.
[33:36] >> Well, I think the
[33:40] that the promise
[33:42] that we are given again and again and
[33:45] again in Kriya Yoga, you know, that
[33:48] you know, through the lineage of masters
[33:50] and certainly from Yogananda who brought
[33:52] it forth from them is that it's possible
[33:56] for us in this lifetime.
[33:58] And that was the greatest teaching. It's
[34:01] possible for us to awaken fully, to
[34:04] experience liberation, enlightenment,
[34:06] whatever you call it, which, you know,
[34:09] for many people seems like that's about
[34:11] somebody else. It's not about me, you
[34:13] know, as a mother, it's not about me as
[34:16] a young person, it's not about me as an
[34:18] old person, it's not about me with the
[34:20] job I have and the refrain from our
[34:24] teaching tradition is, yes, it is it is
[34:27] possible.
[34:28] Um, with, you know, as Roy would say,
[34:30] your your right effort and with God's
[34:33] grace, it is possible.
[34:35] And, um, I think we need that hope in
[34:39] our time and I was telling the group
[34:42] this morning that I was looking through
[34:44] some old Truth Journal magazines and I
[34:47] found a heading that Roy had put on one
[34:49] of the articles and he wrote,
[34:53] "We need God in our life."
[34:58] And the world needs God through us.
[35:01] >> Mhm.
[35:03] >> And that was especially moving to me at
[35:06] this juncture in time, you know, where
[35:10] you just feels like there's a lot of
[35:12] challenges that people are going through
[35:14] and I think we all know we need God in
[35:16] our life. We feel like, you know, we
[35:17] need spiritual support. We need a path.
[35:20] We need a practice to stay to stay
[35:22] balanced, but then taking it the next
[35:25] step as Kriya Yoga does that what we
[35:28] have to offer to the world is that
[35:31] sadhana, is that spiritual practice of
[35:33] being able to bring peace,
[35:36] um, to, uh, you know, our families and
[35:38] our workplaces, you know, wherever we
[35:40] are that we have that capacity and and
[35:45] we also have that obligation.
[35:50] >> Yeah, well said. Thank you. I think
[35:52] that's
[35:53] it's really helpful actually for me to
[35:54] hear you say that and maybe that's the
[35:57] gift you just gave me because sometimes
[36:00] you know, sometimes the path is
[36:02] daunting. I
[36:03] feel like I still have a long way to go
[36:04] before I can clear out all my cobwebs
[36:06] and stuff and so, but when I
[36:09] when I approach it personally as service
[36:11] to others, it's actually easier for me.
[36:13] >> Mhm.
[36:14] >> Like it's easier if I'm not just doing
[36:16] it for me.
[36:17] >> Mhm.
[36:18] Yes.
[36:19] >> It's like it gets your ego out of the
[36:20] way. So, that's it. Of course he could
[36:22] say it in just a short headline and it
[36:23] takes me, you know, way way more words,
[36:26] but that's a that's a great
[36:28] >> Yes, just to remember that we're here in
[36:31] accordance with divine purpose and that
[36:33] it's our our dharma to awaken,
[36:36] but, you know, like if we think of Sri
[36:38] Yukteswar saying self-realization is not
[36:41] selfish realization, right?
[36:42] >> [laughter]
[36:43] >> You You that that we're here in accord
[36:45] with divine purpose, you know, to be to
[36:47] bring our light into the world and it
[36:49] does lessen our load, doesn't it?
[36:51] >> It feels easier somehow. I say I'm I'm
[36:54] here to be of of service and and and the
[36:57] best thing I can do is is wake up.
[37:00] >> Yeah.
[37:00] >> Yeah.
[37:01] >> Exactly.
[37:02] >> Oh, thank you. So, my practice is that
[37:05] we usually let the guest have the last
[37:06] word, meaning would you close us out
[37:09] with a little prayer? Uh just a an
[37:11] affirmation or some type of uh closing
[37:14] for the interview.
[37:16] >> Well, first, I want to offer my prayer
[37:18] of gratitude to you and also to Monty,
[37:22] who's who's there making this podcast
[37:25] happen and it's been such a joy meeting
[37:28] the two of you and experiencing all the
[37:31] ways that you offer your service and
[37:34] so, I I personally want to bow to you
[37:36] both and I thank you for the work you
[37:38] do.
[37:39] And um
[37:42] So, yeah, let's just take a little
[37:43] moment together.
[37:52] And may there be peace in our hearts and
[37:55] peace in our minds.
[37:57] Peace in our bodies.
[38:00] Peace between us. Peace among us.
[38:05] Peace in our homes, in our families,
[38:09] our community.
[38:11] May there be peace in our nation.
[38:15] Peace in our world.
[38:17] Peace in all the universe and may that
[38:20] peace
[38:22] be real peace.
[38:24] And may it be for all.
[38:26] Om
[38:27] Shanti Shanti Shanti.
[38:30] >> Amen.
[38:30] >> Thank you. Thank you.
[38:37] >> Thank you for tuning in to the Spirit
[38:39] Led podcast. Special thanks to our
[38:42] producer, Monty Craig. Please subscribe
[38:45] to catch upcoming episodes.
[38:47] For support in your awakening journey,
[38:50] visit our sponsor, the Center for
[38:52] Spiritual Awareness at csa-davis.org.
[38:54] [music]
[38:57] We offer online group meditations,
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[39:05] Once again, that's csa-davis.org.
[39:10] Until next [music] time,
[39:11] remember your pure essence of being an
[39:15] eternal relationship with the infinite.