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Inspiration

First Person to Ski Everest's North Face: A Life in Mountains

Rich Roll
Rich Roll
Nov 2, 2026
読了 約11分

出典:Rich Roll

If you slip on the North Face of Mount Everest, you go to the bottom. Zero question. The face rises nearly a mile straight up, 9,000 vertical feet from the Berghrund at 20,000 feet to the summit at 29,000, unrelenting at 45 degrees and steeper in sections. A couple miles wide and almost a couple miles tall, it is the shadowed side of the mountain—the steep precipice where mistake and gravity are indistinguishable. Jim Morrison, one of the greatest ski mountaineers alive, became the first person ever to descend it on skis.

This was not an accident of youth or a one-off gamble. Morrison spent fifty years preparing for this single run. The formal expedition consumed six years. The team, when it finally came together—what Morrison calls the "dream team"—was structured like a military operation: meteorologists reading wind and weather, camp-setters climbing in advance, film crew documenting every technical decision, logistical architects managing the impossible. Most people know Everest as a crowded queue of climbers on the South Face, each paying their way into a packaged expedition. The North Face belongs to a different world entirely. It demands what Morrison had spent a lifetime building: mastery, collaboration, presence, and the psychological ability to hold two truths at once—that you can continue after the worst happens, and that the worst will happen.

読む · 8セクション

A Lifetime Compressed Into One Descent

When asked how long he had been preparing for this climb, Morrison paused and recalled something an artist once said about a painting: "My entire life." That's not metaphor in his case—it's the actual architecture of his life. Born into the mountains, he accumulated decades of expeditions, of studying wind and weather, avalanche and exposure, of learning to build teams and manage risk at altitudes where the margin between success and death is a matter of seconds and inches.

The formal six-year push toward the North Face began only after two failures. After the second attempt came the hard choice: what needed to change? Morrison's answer was direct. He rebuilt the team from scratch. He demanded the dream team. And it was that assembly—a collection of specialists aligned around a single vision—that made the difference between another failure and one of mountaineering's most significant firsts.

The ascent itself was El Capitan in altitude. From the third camp at 23,000 feet to the summit at 29,000, climbers were ascending nearly vertical granite, roped in, moving with the precision of rock climbers. But unlike Capitan, these climbers had been at altitude for weeks. Their bodies were being systematically broken down. Oxygen was a scarcer commodity with every step higher. And then, after standing on top of the world's highest mountain, Morrison would click into skis and descend the same terrain in a single push, at speed, with nowhere to fall but to the bottom.

What the North Face Actually Demands

Most people's relationship with Everest comes through images: the crowded South Col route, the fixed lines, the predictable infrastructure. The North Face is something else. It's not a ridge traverse. It's not the longest, easiest way to the summit. It's the most direct route on the mountain—a straight shot, a narrow vertical proposition, and for Morrison, the most aesthetically and technically compelling way to climb the peak. There is something about that directness, that no-compromise path, that calls to mountaineers who have spent their lives pursuing clean lines and honest movement in difficult terrain.

The grades are insane. Fifty-one percent in some technical descriptions, though Morrison is more precise: around 45 degrees, steeper in places, and what makes it truly dangerous is not any single section but the relentless nature of the entire face. A couple of miles of nearly vertical ascent with zero fall zones—places where a mistake is not recoverable. You are either moving up, or you are falling to the bottom. There is no in-between.

To manage this, Morrison and his team operated with the discipline of a military campaign. Every detail mattered. Weather windows open for hours, sometimes minutes. The team had failed twice before because they were missing something—a piece of the puzzle, a person, a decision framework. The third time, they had assembled correctly. They knew what they were doing. And the execution was flawless enough that Morrison not only summited but turned around and skied back down, bringing everybody home safely.

Two Losses That Shaped Everything

What makes Morrison's achievement transcendent rather than merely impressive is the grief that preceded it. In 2011, his wife and children were killed in a plane crash. Something happened in the sky, and his entire world evaporated in an instant. For most people, that kind of loss is the end of a story. For Morrison, it became a pivot point—not toward recklessness, but toward something deeper: an understanding that you can continue after the worst happens, and that the way you continue is by bringing the people you love with you.

He did want to fall in love again. He met Hillary—a skilled mountaineer, a adventurer in her own right—and they fell deeply in love. The plan was that they would do the North Face together. They would ski it together. Hillary, who had started skiing after Morrison, was learning the craft of ski mountaineering. They were training. They were planning.

And then, in 2023, Hillary was killed on Manaslu while attempting another major ski descent. Morrison watched it happen. In the documentary "Everest: The Other Side," which was still in post-production when she died, he had to relive the moment repeatedly—watching the film, watching the accident unfold on screen, understanding in real time that the partner he had chosen to share this life with was gone, just as his family had been gone.

He has replayed that scene in his head thousands of times. This is the context in which he summited the North Face and skied it down. Not as an escape from grief, but as a continuation of it—as a way of keeping Hillary with him, of honoring what they had planned together, of proving that the answer to loss is not paralysis but the decision to keep moving, to keep climbing, to keep bringing your people forward into the next moment.

Presence as a Tool for Living

One of the most revealing parts of Morrison's teaching—because his life is a teaching—is what he says about presence. At extreme altitude, your brain is breaking down. Oxygen is scarce. Decision-making becomes harder. Yet presence becomes more crucial. The ability to be completely, fully where you are, making the next decision, taking the next step, noticing the next piece of information—this is not a luxury on the North Face. It's a survival tool.

But Morrison talks about presence in a way that extends far beyond the mountain. He describes stopping to step outside, to go for a walk, and how the quality of that walk is a function of how present you are to walk. If you're not present, you might as well not be walking. If you're fully present, you might fall—not off a mountain, but into the moment itself, into the reality of where you are. And in that presence, something shifts. The walk becomes real. Life becomes real.

This is how he has survived two unimaginable losses. Not by forgetting, not by moving on in the way that phrase usually suggests, but by showing up completely to whatever is next. To the mountain. To the team. To Hillary, even after she was gone. To the people he loves and the work he is doing to honor them by continuing to live fully, completely, with presence.

Hillary's Character and Its Shadow

Hillary Nelson was not just Morrison's partner. She was a ski mountaineer with her own trajectory, her own skill, her own vision. She had learned to ski from Morrison, yes, but she had her own style—direct, committed, fearless in a way that was distinctly hers. To her two sons, she was just mom. But in the broader context of what Morrison is doing, what he is trying to articulate through his expeditions and his presence, Hillary represented something crucial: a person who could walk the fine line between acceptance and ambition, between maternal presence and her own calling to move through the world in a way that was fully alive.

Morrison has had to hold both of these things: the grief of losing her, and the respect for who she was and what she was trying to do. He hasn't tried to turn her into a symbol or a motivation. He's tried to keep her as she was—a real person, flawed, ambitious, strong, uncertain sometimes, committed always to living fully rather than safely.

Fear, Focus, and the Management of Risk

Morrison speaks about fear not as something to overcome but as a tool. On the North Face, fear is information. It tells you that something is dangerous. The work is not to eliminate fear but to channel it—to let it focus your attention, sharpen your decision-making, make you more alert. The part that you want to eliminate is the panic, the loss of focus, the moment when fear turns into noise instead of signal.

This requires both physical and psychological preparation. You have to be fit enough that your body is not adding additional stress to your mind. You have to have trained the specific movements so many times that they are automatic, freeing your conscious mind to focus on the larger picture: weather, route-finding, team coordination, the hundred small decisions that keep you alive.

But it also requires something that can't be trained in the traditional sense. It requires the ability to accept that today is hard and to celebrate that you're doing it anyway. It requires what Morrison calls a Zen koan: the paradox of wanting to be safe and choosing to be at risk, of wanting to protect the people you love and choosing to continue moving into the world where risk exists.

Bringing People Forward Through Adventure

The deepest thread running through Morrison's philosophy is this: grief is not about moving on. Grief is about bringing the people you love with you. When he talks about why he continues to pursue extreme expeditions after so much loss, it's not because he's trying to escape or outrun his pain. It's because he's trying to continue a conversation that was interrupted. With his first family. With Hillary. With everyone who has loved him and whom he has loved.

The North Face descent becomes, in this reading, an act of continuation. Hillary was supposed to ski it with him. She didn't get to. So he skis it, and he brings her with him. Not as a ghost or a symbol, but as a presence—as a real person whose ambition and courage and presence shaped what he was doing on that mountain.

This is different from the idea of "moving on" or "finding closure" or any of the therapeutic language that usually surrounds grief. It's about the radical choice to say: the person I loved is dead, and I am alive, and I am going to continue to live the life we imagined together, even if they can't be here in body. I am going to make the decisions we would have made together. I am going to move through the world the way we were learning to move through it together. I am going to keep them with me, not as a burden but as a presence.

Where to Go From Here

If you want to understand the North Face descent, you have to watch "Everest: The Other Side." The photographs and the descriptions in articles can't convey what it actually looks like to ski down from 29,000 feet on a face that goes nearly vertical all the way down. But if you want to understand why Morrison did it, the film is only half the story. You have to understand that this was not an athletic achievement in the traditional sense. It was an act of presence—bringing people forward, honoring what was planned, continuing a conversation that death interrupted. It was the summation of fifty years of learning to move through difficult terrain with skill, with team, with focus. And it was an answer to a question that all of us face: how do you continue after the worst happens? Morrison's answer is: fully, completely, with everyone you love held close, whether they are breathing or not.

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Transcript

[0:01] If you make a mistake, if you slip or

[0:04] you fall at any point on the descent,

[0:06] you're going to the bottom. There's zero

[0:08] question of what's going to happen.

[0:10] >> Trailblazing mountain climber and skier

[0:12] Jim Morrison,

[0:13] >> one of the greatest ski mountaineers to

[0:15] ever live.

[0:16] >> The first person ever to ski down the

[0:19] north face of Everest.

[0:22] >> Most people's relationship with Mount

[0:24] Everest are people ascending from the

[0:27] south side. The north side is an

[0:29] entirely different situation. Not only

[0:31] were you one of the few people to make

[0:33] it to the summit from the north side,

[0:35] but you're the first person to then ski

[0:38] down from the summit. You have a unique

[0:41] relationship with all of this. And

[0:43] you've suffered unimaginable

[0:46] loss in your life. In 2011, my wife and

[0:51] children, all of them [music] were

[0:52] killed. Something happened in the sky

[0:54] and the plane fell out of the sky and in

[0:58] an instant my entire world just

[1:00] evaporated. I did have a desire to fall

[1:03] in love again and when I met Hillary we

[1:07] fell deeply in love.

[1:09] >> The whole idea was that you and Hillary

[1:11] were going to do this on Everest

[1:13] together. Hillary started skiing shortly

[1:16] after me and started a small avalanche

[1:19] and was swept off her feet and swept out

[1:22] of sight from where I was. And I've

[1:24] replayed that scene in my head thousands

[1:28] of times. I do think there's value in

[1:31] understanding that you can continue

[1:33] after the [music] worst happens.

[1:39] The north face ascent of Mount Everest.

[1:43] Most people's relationship with Mount

[1:45] Everest, what they see on television or

[1:49] movies or on social media are people

[1:52] ascending from the south side, the south

[1:54] pole, right? Uh that's where you see

[1:57] this long line of people, this queue of

[1:59] people going up. The north side is an

[2:02] entirely different situation. And that's

[2:05] what we're here to talk about among

[2:07] other things today. Because essentially

[2:09] almost exactly a year ago, you

[2:12] accomplished this impossible first where

[2:15] not only were you one of the few people

[2:18] to make it to the summit from the north

[2:20] side, from the China side, but you're

[2:22] the first person to then ski down from

[2:26] the summit. And this is a situation

[2:29] uh that is difficult to get your head

[2:32] around. And I remember when it was

[2:34] happening and reading about it and you

[2:36] know kind of seeing photographs and

[2:38] stuff like that and thinking that I

[2:39] understood what you had done and then I

[2:42] watched Everest the other side the

[2:44] documentary that were on you know were

[2:46] on the precipice of it being widely

[2:48] released and realized like I didn't I I

[2:51] didn't understand this at all. I had the

[2:52] same experience with Alex cuz I had hon

[2:56] after he had free soloed LCAP but before

[2:58] the movie came out and I hadn't that you

[3:00] know I hadn't seen the movie and he's

[3:02] explaining it to me. I was like, "Yeah,

[3:03] I got it. I got it." And then I saw the

[3:05] movie and I was like, "I don't know

[3:06] anything." You know, [clears throat] and

[3:07] this is a very similar experience. I

[3:09] mean, it's just absolutely mind-boggling

[3:11] and astonishing.

[3:13] >> Well, thank you. It was uh it was truly

[3:16] a a magnificent effort by a whole lot of

[3:19] people to to get there and to pull this

[3:22] off and something we worked at for the

[3:25] better part of a lifetime. And

[3:27] [clears throat]

[3:28] it feels pretty great to sit here today

[3:29] and and have those memories with me and

[3:32] have the success of of pulling it off

[3:34] and bringing everybody back safely.

[3:37] I don't know who said it, but there was

[3:39] some painter, some artist who was once

[3:42] asked like, "How long did it take you to

[3:44] paint that painting?" And the response

[3:46] was, "My entire life." And I think it's

[3:49] this holds true for you as well. like

[3:51] this this is the result of a lifetime

[3:54] relationship

[3:55] with the outdoors and with the

[3:57] mountains. Technically, it was about a

[3:59] six-year like formal quest to achieve

[4:02] this goal, but it's the summation of a

[4:06] lifetime of experiences in the outdoors.

[4:10] Yeah. I came home and I showed some of

[4:14] the footage to a really small close

[4:16] group of friends uh at a birthday party

[4:19] a couple nights after I got back and my

[4:21] friend Jeremy Jones called me the next

[4:23] morning and he said it dawned on me this

[4:26] morning while I was thinking about what

[4:27] I saw. I think he had a similar reaction

[4:29] to you like he didn't quite understand

[4:30] it till he visualized it on film

[4:34] and he said I think this took you 50

[4:36] years to to put this together. I don't

[4:38] think you could have been ready to do

[4:40] this any sooner in life. And

[4:43] >> that really stuck with me and I think is

[4:45] is true. I I I was ready mentally in

[4:48] some ways. I was ready physically in

[4:50] some ways. But there's so much

[4:51] experience you get of putting these

[4:54] expeditions together, building teams,

[4:56] going into the mountains, studying wind

[4:58] and weather and avalanche and all the

[5:01] hazards and

[5:04] being able to have the the experience to

[5:07] aggregate everything into a successful

[5:09] ascent and descent

[5:11] is pretty is pretty cool to take 50

[5:13] years to put that together.

[5:15] >> The team aspect of it

[5:18] can't be underestimated. I mean, there

[5:20] were a lot of people uh, you know, in in

[5:24] support of this achievement. In the

[5:27] movie, you see like these tents and

[5:29] they're set up like military operations

[5:32] with maps and all kinds of people behind

[5:35] the scenes. You have the film crew of

[5:36] course, but you also have, you know,

[5:38] just so much logistical support like all

[5:40] this attention to the weather and the

[5:42] patterns and, you know, people going up

[5:45] to set up camps in advance and, you

[5:48] know, the execution of this is one of

[5:50] the most complicated things that you can

[5:52] imagine. And I think that that is in

[5:55] contrast with people's idea who of

[5:58] Everest where like oh you sign up and

[6:00] you go on these expeditions you're some

[6:02] you know private equity guy and you pay

[6:04] a bunch of money and it's kind of all

[6:05] sorted for you. Um this is a very

[6:08] different thing like when you see the

[6:10] north face and how dramatic it is it's

[6:13] very different from our association with

[6:15] Everest. So what is it about the north

[6:17] face? You mentioned all these cool and

[6:20] like what is a cool like for the average

[6:22] person who just has a very casual

[6:24] relationship with the world's tallest

[6:26] mountain. What is it that you want to

[6:28] say about attempting to summit from the

[6:31] other side?

[6:34] >> Well, the North Face is just it's an

[6:36] entirely different version of the

[6:38] mountain. It's it's the shadowed side.

[6:40] It's the steep precipice. It starts at

[6:44] 20,000 ft at the bottom of the face at

[6:47] the Bergrren and it goes straight to

[6:48] 29,000 ft. Uh it's ultra direct from the

[6:52] bottom to the top. You're not cruising

[6:54] around and going up the ridge and the

[6:56] longest sort of easiest way to the top.

[7:00] You're going the most direct route on

[7:03] the on the mountain. And

[7:05] there's something really special and

[7:08] really aesthetically pleasing and really

[7:10] desirous to to climb that route. And for

[7:13] me to ski it and yeah to put that team

[7:16] together to to do it took a lot of hard

[7:20] work and I owe a tremendous debt of

[7:23] gratitude to every single person

[7:25] involved and we built that team over

[7:27] many many years and and really we failed

[7:30] twice trying this and we really found

[7:32] success by building the dream team that

[7:36] I was sort of given the the opportunity

[7:40] and the demand of okay this hasn't

[7:42] worked in the past. What do we need to

[7:44] do different? And I said, we need to

[7:45] build the team, the dream team. We need

[7:48] to do it like this. And that's what's

[7:50] going to make the difference. And

[7:51] ultimately,

[7:53] it was clear as day. It was the ultimate

[7:55] team that put it all together and kind

[7:58] of put the yellow jersey on me at the

[8:00] beginning of the race and carried me

[8:02] through a lot of the the difficulties.

[8:05] And then I was able to kind of stand up

[8:07] out of the saddle and race to the finish

[8:09] and ski back down. to put it mildly. Uh

[8:14] the grades are insane. Like I think

[8:18] Jimmy at some point in the movie says

[8:20] we're we're talking about like 51% grade

[8:22] or something like that. Like the

[8:24] steepness with which you're ascending,

[8:26] especially from

[8:28] where's the third camp like at 23,000 ft

[8:31] from like 23 to 29. I mean it it is a

[8:35] sort of El Capitan kind of ascent.

[8:39] Yeah, it's very it's very steep and in

[8:42] reality it's like 45 degrees.

[8:45] >> Uh and it's steeper in in places,

[8:48] but what's unique about it is it's just

[8:51] so unrelenting and it's, you know, the

[8:53] the face is a couple of miles wide and

[8:56] it's almost a couple of miles tall. So,

[8:59] you're just in a a more vast, broader,

[9:03] bigger, longer landscape than anywhere

[9:06] else I've ever been. And

[9:10] if you make a mistake, if you slip or

[9:12] you fall at any point on the descent,

[9:15] you're going to the bottom. There's zero

[9:17] question of what's going to happen.

[9:18] You're there's nowhere to self-arrest,

[9:21] nowhere to get lucky and stop. You're

[9:24] you're going to the very bottom of the

[9:25] mountain.

[9:26] >> Yeah. It's called, you call it a no fall

[9:28] zone.

[9:29] >> Yeah.

[9:29] >> No fall zone. A euphemism for one

[9:33] misstep and you're dead.

[9:34] >> Yeah. And that's that's something we've

[9:36] we've termed over many, you know, many

[9:39] different things. You traverse across

[9:41] above a big cliff or you hike across

[9:43] above a big cliff. You can't fall there.

[9:44] You could you could fall to your death.

[9:46] >> So, we call it a no fall zone. And often

[9:48] that's there are a couple no fall zones

[9:51] on a on a climb or a ski or an adventure

[9:55] out in life, but this is a broader

[9:58] version of the whole thing's a no-fall

[10:00] zone.

[10:02] For somebody to do what you do and have

[10:04] been doing for a long time, you have to

[10:06] have a different relationship with risk,

[10:09] death, and loss. But even amongst the

[10:13] climber, the climbing community, you

[10:16] have a unique relationship with all of

[10:18] this. And this is the real story. Like

[10:20] the the feat is the opportunity to talk

[10:24] about like your journey through life to

[10:28] get to this place and to make this

[10:30] decision to make this ascent because

[10:33] you've suffered unimaginable

[10:36] loss in your life. I wouldn't wish it

[10:38] upon anyone what you've endured. It's

[10:40] been, you know, this unbelievable

[10:43] journey to places most people won't go.

[10:46] So

[10:48] that's really what I want to talk about

[10:49] with you today. I want to understand

[10:52] that experience of of loss that

[10:55] basically uh you know upended your life

[10:59] back in 2011. So maybe start there and

[11:03] share that story.

[11:07] Uh well, in 2011, my wife and children

[11:12] were down here in Los Angeles visiting

[11:15] some friends. And my wife was flying

[11:18] from Long Beach to Henderson, Nevada to

[11:21] spend some time with a friend of hers

[11:23] whose husband was going undergoing some

[11:25] cancer treatment and just to support

[11:27] her. And in the course of that flight

[11:30] from Long Beach to Henderson, Nevada,

[11:32] there was she was flying a small

[11:34] airplane, a Cessna 210,

[11:37] and

[11:39] something happened in the sky, some

[11:41] tremendous catastrophic air mass, and

[11:45] the plane fell out of the sky, and all

[11:47] of them were killed.

[11:50] And I

[11:53] I was skiing in Palisades Tahoe and I

[11:57] hit a piece of ice and hurt my ankle

[12:00] and I kind of limped down to the car and

[12:03] I called Katie looking for her support

[12:06] and her guidance and

[12:09] she didn't answer the phone and I

[12:11] started driving and I called her again

[12:13] and I called her again and and then I

[12:16] finally looked up her flight track And

[12:20] the flight track had just kind of gone

[12:22] off the the radar, so to speak. And I

[12:26] eventually, just before I got to my

[12:28] house, I called the FAA, which is sort

[12:31] of akin to calling the police on your

[12:33] wife, uh, saying, "She must have done

[12:36] something wrong. She's not where she's

[12:38] supposed to be. I need your help."

[12:40] And I got a call from a friend shortly

[12:43] thereafter who was in the air traffic

[12:47] control world for part of his life and

[12:48] had friends there and had reached out to

[12:50] people. And

[12:52] he called me and he just said, "They're

[12:55] Jimmy." And I answered the phone. He

[12:57] said, "They're gone." And

[13:00] I was,

[13:02] you know, I said to him, "What do you

[13:04] mean?" I I didn't understand what what

[13:07] that meant or had never been able to

[13:10] visualize that. And in an instant, my

[13:13] entire world just evaporated. Everything

[13:16] that I had worked for, everything that I

[13:18] cared about

[13:21] was literally just gone in an instant.

[13:23] And I

[13:25] was completely broken by it and didn't

[13:28] know what to do and didn't started

[13:30] simply just trying to understand am I

[13:32] going to evaporate? Is this all like am

[13:34] I going to just fall to dust on the

[13:36] floor here?

[13:38] And I took a breath and I took more

[13:41] breaths and eventually I drank water and

[13:44] you know kind of like you're on an

[13:46] endurance run going the longest distance

[13:50] you've ever been at your worst spot. You

[13:53] just start trying to focus on how what

[13:56] do I need to do to keep keep existing?

[13:59] And

[14:01] I went through a really long traumatic

[14:04] period of time where I was crushed and

[14:07] day by day I

[14:09] put one foot in front of another and um

[14:14] I had a profound moment. They highlight

[14:17] this in the film where I was on the

[14:19] laundry room floor one day and I looked

[14:22] out the window and I saw these beautiful

[14:25] pine needles on a tree and I was

[14:27] screaming. I was in like a blood

[14:29] curdling, just broken state.

[14:32] And I looked at those pine needles with

[14:35] this beautiful blue sky behind them. And

[14:37] I just visualized that moment for a

[14:39] second. And

[14:43] I appreciated that beauty in nature. And

[14:46] I used that to sort of help me get back

[14:49] on my feet and stand up and take a

[14:52] [clears throat] step forward. And

[14:53] eventually I walked up my driveway and I

[14:55] walked into the street and I gave myself

[14:59] tremendous accolades for just stepping

[15:02] over that crack in the asphalt.

[15:06] >> And then I've just been carrying that

[15:08] >> one step further

[15:09] >> forward one step further at a time.

[15:14] >> How old were your kids when this

[15:17] happened?

[15:17] >> My kids were five and six. Hannah, my

[15:20] daughter, was five years old and Wyatt,

[15:22] my son, was six years old. Uh, I was

[15:25] skiing with them a couple days

[15:27] beforehand.

[15:29] My son, at 6 years old, ski through the

[15:32] fingers at

[15:34] squ at Palisades Tahoe, which uh is this

[15:38] proverbial like really hardcore ski run

[15:42] underneath KT22. when, you know, we were

[15:45] just getting to that age where I was

[15:47] doing things with my kids that that I

[15:50] love to do. And we, you know, I had

[15:53] called my wife the night before

[15:56] and we talked and I I was pinching

[15:58] myself and I had told her about this

[16:00] deal that I just landed with our

[16:02] business and I felt like we had the

[16:05] world by a string and we were going to

[16:07] live this really fruitful life and our

[16:09] kids were growing up to be magical

[16:12] little people and

[16:14] and then it all came crashing down.

[16:22] You mentioned the pine needles uh as

[16:25] this

[16:27] sort of catalyst into

[16:32] some form of

[16:34] self-care action

[16:37] which is a symbol for nature at large,

[16:40] right? Like this relationship with

[16:42] nature that you have as a as as a

[16:44] healing modality. Um, it's one thing to

[16:49] look at the pine needles and divine some

[16:52] degree of inspiration to get up off the

[16:55] couch and go outside. It's another thing

[16:57] altogether to have this relationship

[17:00] with the world's largest peaks.

[17:04] But essentially, it's the natural world

[17:07] that animates you. And

[17:11] I want to understand

[17:13] the profoundity of that relationship

[17:15] because I think this is at the crux of

[17:18] the conversation around the movie. Like

[17:20] what is it about these ascents and these

[17:24] mountains that move you to take these

[17:28] risks and put yourself in a in positions

[17:31] where life and death are, you know,

[17:33] that's a that's a very real gamble. Like

[17:36] what are you getting out of it? Hillary

[17:38] speaks to it directly in the movie, but

[17:41] what is your relationship with that?

[17:45] >> I mean, I think at the at its essence,

[17:47] the true core of what I'm what I

[17:50] experienced and what I'm chasing is is

[17:53] presence and is being focused on now and

[17:56] what's happening right in front of us.

[17:59] And what I began to learn through this

[18:02] grief journey was that the past was the

[18:05] past and there was nothing I could do

[18:07] about it. It was it was over. And no

[18:10] matter how much I lied on that laundry

[18:11] room floor and screamed and cried, it

[18:14] wouldn't bring them back. And yet I had

[18:18] this incredibly beautiful moment right

[18:20] in front of me that I was just ignoring.

[18:22] And I was choosing to stay stuck in that

[18:27] awful, devastating place. And I had to

[18:31] force and choose to take a step forward

[18:35] and go into that nature. And for me,

[18:39] the communing with nature, the the

[18:42] stepping outside, the going for a walk

[18:44] in the forest or climbing up a mountain

[18:46] days or weeks or months later

[18:50] just became the greatest source of of

[18:52] healing and forward and eventually that

[18:56] led to bigger and bigger endeavors and

[19:00] bigger challenges. And like many of us,

[19:03] we we put a big target of a a big race

[19:06] or a big mountain or a big endeavor on

[19:09] the board and then training for it

[19:11] becomes the journey and all the work

[19:13] that goes into it helps us stay focused

[19:16] on what we think is important in the

[19:18] world. And for me, that time outside

[19:22] walking uphill with friends and with

[19:24] Mother Earth, it brings me closer to my

[19:28] kids and lets me think about and have

[19:31] times to to connect with

[19:34] my wife and Hillary and lots of other

[19:37] people I've lost in the mountains and

[19:40] just has has given me that opportunity.

[19:44] And and I think I've used the term it's

[19:47] a forced presence. You know, I I spent a

[19:50] lot of time reading and learning from

[19:53] Echartol.

[19:55] And my guess is his take on on what I'm

[19:59] doing in the mountains would be like,

[20:00] okay, you could just be present without

[20:02] going to the mountains. That's that's

[20:04] someone who's not as good at

[20:06] [clears throat]

[20:06] >> the sort of spiritual practice. They're

[20:08] having to do it.

[20:10] >> They're using something to force them to

[20:12] be present. But for those of us that

[20:14] aren't as

[20:16] good at the spiritual practice that that

[20:19] I think he's done such a good job of

[20:21] helping people see and and realize and

[20:23] learn about.

[20:25] Going for a walk or climbing a mountain

[20:28] can be a a really or going for a run can

[20:31] can be really helpful. And for me it's

[20:35] just kept me alive, kept me going, given

[20:38] me the opportunity to do my best work.

[20:42] The enlightened view is that everything

[20:45] is available in the present moment and

[20:48] your facility to understand that is is

[20:52] uh is a function of just how present you

[20:56] are in the moment like which is all

[20:59] there is actually. You know there's this

[21:02] story about the past and things that

[21:04] have happened and what it means and

[21:06] there's the time that we spend thinking

[21:08] about the future ruminating. Um, but

[21:11] essentially the only thing that is real

[21:12] is like right here and right now. And

[21:15] when we're right here and right now,

[21:18] everything's fine.

[21:20] But we are wired to not be present in

[21:24] the moment. And we seek out these

[21:26] experiences to connect with the

[21:30] ineffable or something that is divine

[21:32] that can provide us with a wisdom around

[21:35] like what does life mean and what does

[21:38] it mean to live a meaningful life and

[21:40] and you know what is my purpose and

[21:44] Hillary in the movie when asked this

[21:47] question basically says when I'm on

[21:51] these mountains and I'm on this summit

[21:53] of these big peaks

[21:55] You're in this liinal space between the

[21:58] material world and the spiritual world.

[22:01] And that allows her, it's almost as if

[22:04] there's this thin layer between like God

[22:07] and man. And in that space, there's a

[22:11] sense of connection that is just not

[22:15] available in everyday life.

[22:19] Yeah. And Hillary Hillary referred to

[22:21] that as as the netherworld. and she

[22:23] asked me before I went to Everest in

[22:26] 2018, I was going to climb Everest on on

[22:30] the north side of the mountain via the

[22:32] standard route up to North Side. And

[22:35] she said, "What do you think about when

[22:37] you're up there and when you're close to

[22:38] the netherworld?"

[22:40] And we had a whole conversation about

[22:42] it. And I went on this trip and I was up

[22:45] high at like 28 28 and a half thousand

[22:49] feet climbing ahead of my team by

[22:51] myself.

[22:53] and you truly feel like you can reach

[22:56] through to the other side. It's just

[22:58] almost this invincible line all of a

[23:02] sudden that you feel like if you just

[23:04] were to walk over there, you'd fall to

[23:06] your death or if you were to sit down

[23:08] and get exhausted, you might perish. And

[23:11] you're existing at the sort of edge of

[23:13] of what's possible.

[23:16] And I had this

[23:19] incredible spiritual moment with my

[23:22] children where for like 30 minutes they

[23:26] were with me. I felt their presence that

[23:28] I had been searching for and dreaming

[23:31] about and looking for and praying for

[23:34] for many many years. hopeful that they

[23:38] would come out of the forest on the

[23:40] other side of the river when I was in

[23:41] some really remote place. Or when I was

[23:44] looking out at the ocean at sunset, I

[23:46] would see them on the other side of the

[23:48] waves. I would get some sign that they

[23:50] were okay, that they were that still

[23:53] existed in our spiritual world.

[23:57] And for 30 minutes that they were with

[23:59] me, they were laughing, they were

[24:01] encouraging me. And I felt them so

[24:04] strongly like I never imagined. And

[24:10] it was it was an incredible

[24:12] >> situation. And I I connected with

[24:15] Hillary about it afterwards. And you

[24:17] know, I think she's talking about

[24:20] something that just has always been for

[24:23] her this desire to get back to that that

[24:28] edge of of and I I think you can do that

[24:30] in all sorts of aspects of your life.

[24:32] And it's really just surrendering to

[24:35] some of what we spend all our time of

[24:39] like I got to get there. I got to do

[24:41] what's next. I got to go. I'm in the

[24:42] line at the grocery store and I've got

[24:44] to hurry up and get through the through

[24:46] this and get home and get the to-do list

[24:49] done. But if you just stop and slow down

[24:51] and focus on being present, you might

[24:55] notice something spectacular. And you

[24:57] might For me, I I had moments where I

[25:00] was in the grocery store and I looked at

[25:04] a child in someone's arms and I started

[25:07] flirting with a 12-month-old child and

[25:11] got them to smile and just found a

[25:15] tremendous amount of joy out of that

[25:18] moment. It it mixed with this like awful

[25:21] reality that I'd lost my children. And

[25:25] it was those moments that started to

[25:27] help me realize like I don't have to

[25:29] suppress the memories of them every day.

[25:31] I don't have to push them away. I can

[25:34] live in those moments and celebrate who

[25:36] they are every day. And doing that in a

[25:39] remote place in the Himalayas at extreme

[25:42] altitude in many ways is easier because

[25:44] you strip away everything else and you

[25:46] get to focus on just what's right in

[25:49] front of you and maybe it helps you

[25:52] connect with being present.

[25:55] >> Well, also realizing you can have a

[25:57] analogous experience in the grocery

[25:59] store flirting with an infant.

[26:03] >> You absolutely can. And [laughter] uh

[26:07] I've been trying, you know, for in so

[26:09] many acts of my life since 2011 to

[26:13] connect with those moments and to do the

[26:16] do little things in my day-to-day

[26:18] existence that make my life better and

[26:21] and make other people's lives better.

[26:25] This episode is brought to you by Whoop,

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[27:50] I used to think adventure meant

[27:52] something specific, a summit somewhere

[27:55] far from home, but these days it's just

[27:57] as likely to be taken the long way home

[28:00] because the light's good. Driving a

[28:02] Rivian changed what I count as an

[28:05] adventure in the first [music] place.

[28:07] And that's really the idea behind the

[28:09] new R2. Adventure isn't just one

[28:11] definition. It's whatever you call

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[28:15] for all of it. The city, the ski hill,

[28:18] the trail head, the school pickup, also

[28:20] the random Tuesday. And the range

[28:22] question that used to stop people

[28:24] doesn't have to anymore. A DC fast

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[28:42] yourself. To book a demo drive, head to

[28:44] riv.com/demo-drive.

[28:46] [music]

[28:51] The Hillary that we're talking about is

[28:53] the late Hillary Nelson. Um,

[28:59] your life partner, uh, who I had the

[29:02] good fortune of knowing just in the

[29:04] tiniest bit. I had her on the the show

[29:06] many, you know, many several years ago.

[29:09] Um,

[29:11] when did she enter your life? How many

[29:13] years after

[29:15] the tragic airplane accident?

[29:18] >> The accident was in 2011 and I met

[29:20] Hillary in 2015 on an expedition to

[29:25] climb and ski Macau, the world's fifth

[29:28] highest peak. I think I met her in the

[29:30] Catmandeue airport on the way to this

[29:33] expedition and uh

[29:36] we became fast friends climbing the

[29:38] mountain and

[29:42] she got me to open up and talk about

[29:44] things that I hadn't spoken to other

[29:46] people about and just spending time

[29:49] talking about my wife and my kids and

[29:52] life and what I'd been through in those

[29:54] four years just really kind of propelled

[29:57] me a step further and she shared some

[30:00] own some of her life stories and

[30:03] tragedies that have happened in her life

[30:05] that we kind of commencerated about. And

[30:08] and then we just started looking at

[30:12] the mountain and the conditions and

[30:15] snow and ski lines in a very similar

[30:18] light and realized we we shared a lot of

[30:21] similar passions. And

[30:24] after that trip, we many months later

[30:26] started dating and

[30:29] uh started going on adventures together

[30:32] and we just kind of went on a tear and

[30:36] found a ton of success. Did did some

[30:38] incredible things in the mountains and

[30:41] shared a lot of joy in the mountains and

[30:44] a lot of

[30:46] >> yeah amazing moments. Prior to meeting

[30:49] her, did you have a sense that you would

[30:53] be capable of allowing yourself to fall

[30:57] in love again?

[31:00] >> Yeah. I think

[31:03] in the months and years after losing my

[31:07] family, I I I really wanted to recreate

[31:11] what I had. I I wanted the future and I

[31:14] was always yearning for the future. How

[31:17] am I going to get that back? How am I

[31:19] going to find someone and meet someone

[31:21] and have a family and and recreate this

[31:24] this thing? And I and I did a lot of

[31:26] work to realize that

[31:29] nothing ever happened in the future.

[31:33] That's to quote Ehart like he he told me

[31:35] that face to face. Nothing in his sort

[31:38] of Yoda voice. Nothing has ever happened

[31:40] in the future ever.

[31:42] >> And you met him. You had FaceTime with

[31:44] him.

[31:45] >> I did. I I really enjoyed uh his book,

[31:48] The Power of Now. And I I read it and

[31:50] listened to it and then I went to

[31:52] Vancouver and

[31:53] >> met him and sat down with him and spent

[31:55] some time with him and

[31:57] >> and the way he said that to me like and

[31:59] it was just so clear and simple and

[32:03] factual to him really made an impact in

[32:05] that it's just never happened. gym. This

[32:08] was the the vibe he was giving me like

[32:10] stop trying to manifest the future

[32:13] because you really just have what you

[32:15] can do now. And

[32:18] it just made a really big impact on on

[32:21] how I started moving forward. And

[32:24] I did have a desire to fall in love

[32:26] again. And when I met Hillary, we fell

[32:30] deeply in love. And I built an

[32:33] incredible life with her. And

[32:36] I feel really fortunate for not just

[32:39] doing that once, but but doing it twice.

[32:41] And

[32:43] I'm sort of entering that third chapter

[32:46] of my life now where I have every

[32:48] intention of going back out in the world

[32:50] and

[32:51] sharing what I have with someone and

[32:53] building a life with someone and,

[32:56] you know, hopefully living happily ever

[32:58] after and sailing off into the sunset.

[33:01] The predominant theme in the movie and

[33:04] you articulate it at the end

[33:08] uh is that what you have learned from

[33:12] navigating such tremendous grief and

[33:15] loss is not that you have to learn how

[33:18] to live without them. It's about

[33:21] bringing them with you.

[33:23] And I mean that's a profound insight and

[33:26] I'm sure you had to climb a lot of

[33:29] emotional mountains to arrive at that as

[33:31] your as your kind of life philosophy.

[33:35] But I think it's powerful and I I think

[33:38] that the achievement of, you know,

[33:42] summiting the North Face and skiing down

[33:45] is essentially just a platform for you

[33:48] to be able to share what you've learned

[33:52] from these extreme experiences, not just

[33:54] physically, but emotionally. Like,

[33:57] because if you look at life as a

[33:59] waveform, like you're just I mean, you

[34:01] have these insane peaks and valleys.

[34:04] like it's just like it's going like

[34:05] this. Like the thing is just jagged as

[34:09] I'll get out.

[34:12] A normal person has, you know, gradual

[34:14] kind of dips and es and flows or

[34:16] whatever. It's like you're just

[34:18] compressing the waveform, but nobody

[34:20] gets out of life alive. And everybody at

[34:23] some point is faced with grief and loss.

[34:26] We all have these experiences. I know

[34:29] Oprah kind of contextualized this to you

[34:32] as you know we all have our own Everest,

[34:34] right? And so the wisdom that you've

[34:37] gleaned from your life and from these

[34:39] adventures, you now have this

[34:43] opportunity to like share that in

[34:45] service to other people who are

[34:47] navigating their version of what you

[34:50] have endured.

[34:52] Yeah. And I really relish that

[34:55] opportunity. I think it's my my purpose

[34:58] here at this point. I

[35:01] I sat down a few days after my wife and

[35:04] kids passed away and I

[35:07] had a memorial service and I decided I

[35:09] wanted to get up in front of everyone

[35:10] and say something. And I sat down to

[35:15] put words to paper and

[35:18] at that moment all I wanted to do was

[35:20] end my own life. And

[35:24] I had this

[35:27] profound moment where I just decided

[35:30] either I'm going to end my own life, I

[35:32] might as well just do it right now or

[35:34] I'm not and I'm going to try to do my

[35:36] best and I'm going to try to live my

[35:37] life in their honor. And I think that

[35:40] helped me get through that moment and

[35:43] that through that day and

[35:46] I've taken that forward and

[35:49] I've been through so much loss and so

[35:52] much grief but in sharing that story

[35:54] with others sometimes I meet someone who

[35:58] I've had an impact on and it and it does

[36:01] feel valuable and positive and so I hope

[36:06] this film and eventually a a book that I

[36:08] write will help people figure out that

[36:10] there is a way through their their own

[36:13] Everest story, whether it's a tremendous

[36:17] loss or

[36:19] a bout with depression or a bout with

[36:21] sickness in their themselves or their

[36:24] family.

[36:25] And we all are going to go through these

[36:28] highs and lows. And I I think you can

[36:31] say that mine are more dramatic than

[36:33] others, but when you're in the when

[36:36] you're in the gutter and you're in the

[36:37] bad place, for whatever reason it is,

[36:40] it's it feels pretty awful. I think

[36:42] >> your pain is your pain.

[36:44] >> Yeah. And it's often just such a small

[36:48] turn of the dial to take you from I'm

[36:51] mad and I'm upset and I'm depressed and

[36:53] I feel terrible to

[36:56] I'm great and everything's wonderful and

[36:58] I'm having a great time. It's like

[37:00] somebody can make the right joke and

[37:02] create the right vibe and all of a

[37:04] sudden you're having a great time at the

[37:05] party

[37:07] >> versus I don't like it here and I want

[37:08] to go home. And

[37:11] I think if we can figure out how to

[37:15] infuse ourselves with more of what

[37:17] brings us happiness and joy and gets us

[37:20] gets that volume turned up a little bit,

[37:22] then

[37:24] we're all going to live a better life.

[37:26] And for me, a lot of that is just

[37:30] stepping out of of my normaly and going

[37:33] outside and taking a walk with nature

[37:36] and meeting new people and doing new

[37:38] things. And [clears throat]

[37:40] I think there's, you know, so much of us

[37:42] feel like

[37:44] we have to do something dramatic to to

[37:47] get us out of our life situation. But it

[37:50] doesn't start with the hardest part of

[37:52] the climb at the top of the mountain

[37:54] where the crux is. It starts with just

[37:57] deciding you're going to go on that

[37:58] journey and starting to pack your bags

[38:01] and starting to plan for the expedition

[38:04] and eventually you step over the the

[38:06] crack at the bottom of the face and

[38:08] eventually you make your first step up

[38:09] the mountain. But you don't climb

[38:11] through the crux until you get there. So

[38:13] you don't have to focus entirely on

[38:15] that. You have to plan for it. But

[38:18] >> you don't have to do the hardest part of

[38:20] the journey all at once. You just have

[38:22] to get started.

[38:24] There's a sort of moment of levity in

[38:27] the movie when you and Jimmy are in a

[38:29] tent and you're like and I I think I

[38:31] don't know if it was you or Jimmy like

[38:32] you're like I thought this was supposed

[38:34] to be fun. Isn't this supposed to be

[38:35] fun? You're like no the fun part is

[38:38] afterwards when you tell this story but

[38:40] you know it illustrates this point of

[38:42] this being this huge journey. And if

[38:45] nothing else, like the movie affirms

[38:47] this theory that I have that like 90% of

[38:50] climbing is like people packing their

[38:53] gear. Like the amount of gear is insane.

[38:55] I think I made this joke when I had

[38:56] Emily Harrington on. All you guys do is

[38:59] like spread all your out all over

[39:01] the floor and you just spend hours and

[39:03] hours like with these ropes and the

[39:05] carabiners and like packing all this

[39:07] stuff and you know that's there's a

[39:09] there's a like there's something

[39:11] ritualistic about that.

[39:13] Yeah, absolutely. We obsess over making

[39:16] sure we have just the right amount of

[39:17] stuff, maybe a little bit extra, but

[39:19] concerned about how much weight it is,

[39:21] and should I take this or should I do

[39:22] that? And some part of that is just

[39:25] putting yourself in the mindset of of

[39:27] getting prepared to go into this this

[39:30] battle you're going to have with the

[39:31] mountain. And uh

[39:35] putting on your own armor to to prepare

[39:37] yourself for the you know, when we get

[39:39] like six feet off the ground, everything

[39:41] changes. you you get more than 12 feet

[39:45] off the ground, all of a sudden you feel

[39:46] like you're going to get really hurt or

[39:48] really

[39:50] worse if if you are to fall. And and we

[39:52] have to put ourselves in a mindset of

[39:54] how to prepare for that that fear that's

[39:57] going to come into us and and how we're

[39:59] going to

[40:00] >> move through it. And for Emily, that's

[40:01] having just the right tools to stick in

[40:04] the crack and the right rope and the

[40:07] right outfit and the right earrings and

[40:10] all the right things. What is your

[40:12] relationship with fear when people ask

[40:14] you like how do you manage your fear?

[40:16] How do you channel it? Uh how does it

[40:18] show up?

[40:20] >> Uh I I mean I think my relationship with

[40:23] fear is

[40:26] I've learned to use the fear that comes

[40:29] in my it's something that's going to

[40:31] happen. When I'm when I was at the top

[40:32] of Everest and I was looking at what was

[40:34] in front of me, I was very afraid of of

[40:37] the consequences and of making a mistake

[40:39] or having something not go the way I had

[40:43] planned it to go. But I used that fear

[40:47] to say, "Wow, this looks really icy and

[40:50] this next turn looks really dangerous

[40:52] for this reason. The snow is not smooth

[40:54] and there's a rock right there and you

[40:56] better be perfect with that." I use that

[40:58] fear to help me understand you have to

[41:00] work really hard to make this next turn.

[41:02] And the part of the the fear that says,

[41:05] "Oh my gosh, you should panic and you

[41:07] should run and you should hide." I don't

[41:10] find a lot of benefit from that. So, I

[41:12] just sort of bifurcate those two and

[41:14] stick the other one, let it go out the

[41:17] window and focus on the part of fear

[41:19] that

[41:20] >> helps me be more focused and more in the

[41:24] zone and more alert. And the part that

[41:27] says you should run or fight or flight,

[41:29] I try to just turn off and not pay

[41:31] attention to. And if I am paying

[41:34] attention to that fear, if I do feel

[41:36] that anxiety fear or that shortness of

[41:39] breath or that and then then I know

[41:41] something's gone horribly wrong and

[41:43] that's that would be a place to just

[41:44] stop and say, I either need to calm down

[41:48] and get rid of that sensibility or or

[41:51] just stop altogether and say I can't do

[41:54] this anymore. I would imagine that that

[41:57] ability to compose yourself in that way

[41:59] just comes with the amount of experience

[42:01] that you've had in these high-risk

[42:03] environments.

[42:04] >> Yeah, for sure. And I've had that sense

[42:07] where that that anxious fear is creeping

[42:10] in and and I'm able to push it back and

[42:13] overcome it. And I've had that sense of

[42:14] just no, that that isn't helping me. So,

[42:18] I'm not gonna I'm not going to listen to

[42:20] it. I'm going to listen to the part that

[42:22] says, "Watch out for what's next or or

[42:25] you're going to regret it."

[42:27] So, you fall in love with Hillary. You

[42:29] guys are building a life together. Um,

[42:33] you kind of inherit her sons from her

[42:37] previous marriage. You're helping to

[42:40] raise these boys. Uh, and you're going

[42:43] out on these adventures. Not only is she

[42:46] your life partner, she's also your

[42:48] partner in adventure crime, you know,

[42:50] like you guys are just going on all of

[42:52] these expeditions as a as a kind of

[42:55] joint unit. And what you share is not

[42:59] only this love of the mountains and and

[43:00] and being mountaineers, but it's the ski

[43:03] aspect of it that is unique in the

[43:06] mountaineering community. Like you're

[43:07] not just climbing these mountains, the

[43:09] whole thing is like we want to ski down

[43:11] them. So talk about how that

[43:14] differentiates you from how people think

[43:16] about climbing and what is the

[43:18] experience of skiing from the summit of

[43:21] a gigantic peak.

[43:24] >> Well, I I guess I'll just tell a story

[43:26] to to talk about that in a minute. We

[43:29] climbed Denali, Hillary and I, and we

[43:32] went there with the desire to climb the

[43:34] Cassin Ridge. I really wanted to climb

[43:36] this this route on the south side of the

[43:39] mountain called the Cassin Ridge, which

[43:40] is 9,000 ft long and technical and and

[43:44] just you has some reasonably hard rock

[43:47] climbing and ice climbing and snow

[43:49] climbing. And

[43:51] uh when we got there, the mountain was

[43:53] in really tough conditions for that

[43:54] route. And this park service said that

[43:56] three parties had done the casino that

[43:58] year. All three of them had been

[44:00] rescued. Could you please pick a

[44:02] different route? And our team name was

[44:05] called Cassine or Bust. And Hillary and

[44:07] I said, "Well, we'll figure it out." We

[44:09] went up on the mountain. We looked at

[44:11] the mountain and we saw really great

[44:14] conditions for skiing. And we ended up

[44:15] climbing to the summit and skiing the

[44:17] Mesnner Koolar, which was kind of a

[44:19] dream run for me at the time and

[44:21] something I'd been chasing my whole

[44:23] life.

[44:24] But I convinced her to go back and to go

[44:26] around the other side of the mountain

[44:27] and climb the cassin. And we did did

[44:29] that and finished that a week later,

[44:31] which was amazing and really fulfilling.

[44:35] But from the summit, we had to walk all

[44:37] the way back to 14,000 ft.

[44:39] >> Mhm. [clears throat]

[44:40] >> And I just I'll never forget her her

[44:45] attitude walking into camp was like that

[44:47] was so dumb walking downhill. Like that

[44:50] so hard. It's physically just really

[44:52] hard to walk downhill. And she just

[44:55] would prefer to ski downhill. So, we we

[44:58] both I think our whole lives looked at

[45:01] mountains as like we want to go up the

[45:03] challenging way. We want to climb the

[45:05] biggest peaks on the planet. But I've

[45:08] always looked at those photos and tried

[45:10] to say, "Well, I don't want to climb

[45:11] this route. There's nowhere to ski. I

[45:13] want to climb this route cuz there's a

[45:15] pleasing and aesthetic way back down on

[45:18] skis." Which is just

[45:21] >> fun and challenging in its own way.

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[48:00] So hence commences a series of

[48:03] expeditions where you guys are going to

[48:05] like gigantic peaks and skiing down. You

[48:07] do a series of these um and at some

[48:11] point

[48:12] you hatch this plan that you want to do

[48:14] it on Everest and you know the movie

[48:18] chronicles this phase of your life. The

[48:21] whole idea was that you and Hillary were

[48:23] going to do this together.

[48:27] >> And I think it's something both Hillary

[48:30] and I looked at long before we met each

[48:32] other and knew about and followed and

[48:35] read about the North Face of Everest.

[48:37] And and then in 2018, we finally

[48:41] achieved the goal that we had both had

[48:43] of climbing and skiing Lo and the Lo

[48:45] Kuwir, which is right next to Everest.

[48:48] It's the fourth highest mountain in the

[48:49] world.

[48:51] and we skied this sort of dream run of

[48:55] ours and got to the bottom and crossed

[48:56] the burgrun and high-fived and pinched

[48:59] each ourselves and couldn't believe that

[49:01] we'd pulled it off

[49:04] >> and we were the first one ever done

[49:05] that. were the first ones to ever to

[49:07] ever do it and it was a

[49:09] >> for us a true achievement and the best

[49:13] run we'd ever done together or

[49:15] separately I think and at the same time

[49:20] at that moment and like often happens

[49:22] when you're out on a big expedition or a

[49:24] big life project we you sort of dream up

[49:27] the next one and

[49:30] we there was one thing left after that

[49:32] and it was the north face of Everest. So

[49:34] we started

[49:35] talking about it and sometimes nervously

[49:38] talking about it because it's a much

[49:40] bigger endeavor. And after Jimmy came

[49:44] back from Antarctica on a expedition he

[49:46] was on with Conrad Anker and others, he

[49:49] was really high on life and really high

[49:51] on the mountains and we sat down to hear

[49:53] his stories about climbing Ovalana and

[49:55] we pitched him on this idea of we want

[49:58] to go to the North Face and we want to

[50:00] ski it and he'd been there himself

[50:02] trying to do it in 2003. So he was very

[50:05] familiar and intimate with what it was

[50:07] and what it would take. And

[50:09] uh he just kind of had one of those

[50:12] moments where he I think [clears throat]

[50:13] said, "Oh my god,

[50:16] >> this is this is going to happen." And

[50:18] and then we just started [snorts]

[50:20] started down the path. originally

[50:21] planning to climb and ski it in the fall

[50:24] of 2020 and then CO shut us down and the

[50:29] mountain was closed and the world was

[50:30] closed and we delayed until 2021 and

[50:34] year after year we just sort of delayed

[50:36] the trip.

[50:37] >> Mhm. So in 2022

[50:40] you and Hillary go to Manisloo and the

[50:43] idea there was like this is sort of a

[50:46] training mission, right? like we got to

[50:47] get our ski legs going and let's climb

[50:50] this insanely high peak and, you know,

[50:52] get to work on practicing so that we're

[50:55] ready for Everest.

[50:57] Yeah, I think Hillary really wanted to

[50:59] to get up high again and and stay fit

[51:03] and stay connected to what it

[51:06] physiologically would take to

[51:08] acclimatize to a high altitude and

[51:12] didn't want to have so many years

[51:13] between the last time she'd been at

[51:15] extreme altitude and and Everest. And so

[51:18] we went to Monislove to climb and and

[51:21] ski that. And it was really Hillary's

[51:24] trip. it was her her passion and her

[51:27] desire to go. Of course, didn't take

[51:29] much to get me to leap at the

[51:30] opportunity and and go with her. Um,

[51:36] and we climbed through some pretty

[51:39] adverse conditions and made it to the

[51:41] summit. And

[51:43] we started skiing and Hillary started

[51:47] skiing shortly after me and started a

[51:50] small avalanche and

[51:53] was swept off her feet and swept out of

[51:56] sight from where I was. And

[51:59] I started a

[52:03] new chapter of my life at that moment.

[52:06] Trying to

[52:07] find her, trying to rescue her, trying

[52:10] to get to her. I was at that moment

[52:13] certain that she was okay and alive and

[52:16] had stopped herself somewhere down the

[52:18] mountain. And I skied down to try to to

[52:22] get to where I thought I could see her.

[52:24] And I was above a bunch of cliffs. And I

[52:27] knew if I went any farther, there was a

[52:29] really good chance I would perish, which

[52:33] I was entirely willing to do and wanted

[52:36] to do. I wanted to get to her so badly,

[52:38] but I made the decision that I can't do

[52:42] that because if I if I die,

[52:44] [clears throat]

[52:45] I won't be able to help her and she

[52:47] needs my help. And so I climb back up

[52:50] and ski off the other side of the

[52:51] mountain and look for a helicopter. And

[52:55] I guess I want to stop and share that in

[52:57] that moment I

[53:00] when she slid out of sight, I didn't

[53:03] want to be in the mountains anymore. I

[53:06] didn't understand

[53:08] why we were there and why we would take

[53:10] this risk and how we could be in a

[53:14] position where she potentially wasn't

[53:17] coming home to her children.

[53:20] And

[53:23] I had a real difficulty with the

[53:28] decision we'd made to to come there and

[53:30] to do this and

[53:32] spent days searching for her and putting

[53:36] together the best team I could find and

[53:39] in Nepal and worked with the best pilot

[53:42] and the some incredible Sherpa friends

[53:45] to go find her and rescue her and

[53:48] ultimately we found her

[53:50] deceased and

[53:53] dug her out of the ice and

[53:56] we were able to bring her body back and

[53:59] have a cremation ceremony for her and uh

[54:03] I think bring a lot of closure to her

[54:06] family and her friends and her community

[54:08] and the world

[54:11] >> which

[54:13] was tremendous and awful and

[54:19] positive and transformational at the

[54:20] same time that we were able to find her.

[54:24] >> I had no idea that this event had been

[54:28] captured on film and it's quite

[54:32] arresting to actually see this happen on

[54:36] a screen. Um, not only do we see the the

[54:41] the sort of snow shelf just basically

[54:44] dislodge and take her with it down the

[54:47] side of the mountain, we see this like

[54:51] pirick choice that you have to make.

[54:52] like am I going to go down here and and

[54:55] and and and truly like most likely

[54:59] perish in search of trying to recover

[55:01] her or am I going to back up and take a

[55:05] moment and try to enlist the help of

[55:07] others and do this more responsibly? And

[55:09] the pain on your face,

[55:12] it's it's a lot to watch for anybody.

[55:16] Uh, but now

[55:19] it's on a huge IMAX screen.

[55:22] What is that like for you to have to

[55:24] relive that?

[55:29] It's pretty awful to to be blunt. Um,

[55:37] it's something I clearly wish never

[55:39] happened. And had I known it was going

[55:41] to happen, I would have said, "No, let's

[55:44] go.

[55:46] to the beach. Uh, let's do something

[55:48] different.

[55:51] But it did happen and I think

[55:57] the filmmakers decided to share it as

[55:59] part of visual understanding of of what

[56:03] happened. And, you know, we spent six

[56:07] years of our lives with cameras around

[56:09] us. and Hillary and I made the decision

[56:10] that we were going to do this and we

[56:12] agreed to be filmed and we got used to

[56:14] it and it became normal and commonplace

[56:19] and

[56:21] I wasn't sure what they were going to

[56:22] put in the film or not put in the film

[56:24] and

[56:26] it's certainly part of the film that I

[56:28] don't want to watch um over and over but

[56:31] I've replayed that scene in my head

[56:34] thousands of times and when you go

[56:37] through a traumatic event and you're

[56:40] part of it, you it's part of certainly

[56:43] part of what I do is just visualize that

[56:46] situation and replay it over and over

[56:48] and over and over and try to figure out

[56:51] how you can affect a different outcome.

[56:54] And

[56:56] the fact of life is you can't you can't

[56:58] change what happened no matter how many

[57:00] times you obsess over it or cry over it

[57:04] or replay it. And

[57:08] I have done that enough times that I'm

[57:10] now able to watch it and it doesn't

[57:12] totally bring me back to an awful place.

[57:16] And

[57:18] I think what I have done is I try to to

[57:22] accept what's happened to Hillary and

[57:24] I'm trying to carry her forward with me.

[57:27] And I

[57:28] have over time gotten to a place where I

[57:31] feel like she's

[57:33] there with me. And I had a tremendous

[57:36] interaction with her on the summit where

[57:38] I felt like her her spirit and her soul

[57:42] and herself

[57:44] were was there supporting me and

[57:46] encouraging me and that she was proud of

[57:48] what I was doing. And

[57:51] I feel like I can channel that

[57:55] grief and that negativity and the hard

[57:58] hard stuff that I have over time

[58:01] packaged up and decided to carry with

[58:05] me. And and I can I can access a little

[58:09] bit of it right here. just to sort of

[58:10] answer your question of how is that how

[58:13] do you how do you do with with watching

[58:15] your

[58:17] >> you know your life partner your loved

[58:19] one perish right in front of you it's

[58:22] it's not something I would wish on

[58:23] anyone or

[58:26] want anyone to experience but I do think

[58:29] there's value in understanding that you

[58:31] can continue after the worst happens

[58:36] >> after the worst happens a second time.

[58:41] >> A second time. Yeah,

[58:47] >> I would think for almost anyone

[58:51] that's a point of no return to have to

[58:55] weather that again. [clears throat]

[58:58] It's just it's unimaginable, dude. You

[59:01] know, I I mean I like

[59:09] How do you get up out of bed after that?

[59:14] Well, I I have the unfortunate

[59:20] experience with losing your your wife.

[59:24] And I'd spent

[59:30] 11 years waking up every day and going

[59:34] through life every day knowing what it

[59:35] was like to lose your children and lose

[59:37] your wife. And

[59:40] I tried to tell myself that some of that

[59:43] experience were going to help me through

[59:45] this unimaginable event with Hillary.

[59:48] And

[59:51] there were things that I had learned

[59:54] uh that helped me through those many

[59:57] years. And there were things that I

[59:58] tried to not repeat like I I stayed away

[1:00:02] from alcohol afterwards. I I don't think

[1:00:05] that really helped me. Diving deep into

[1:00:09] a bottle of of liquor and inheritating

[1:00:13] myself. Um maybe helped ease some of the

[1:00:17] pain the first time around, but being a

[1:00:21] bit older and

[1:00:23] I just made the decision, okay, I'm not

[1:00:25] going to do that. And um there were

[1:00:28] little things that I did that made it

[1:00:31] more uh

[1:00:35] possible maybe.

[1:00:39] But then there were all kinds of things

[1:00:40] that just

[1:00:42] were new and different and I didn't

[1:00:44] expect and wasn't prepared for and hit

[1:00:47] me in a different and unique way. And

[1:00:50] I've just been treating every day like

[1:00:52] it's a like it's a new day and it's a

[1:00:54] journey. and [sighs]

[1:00:56] I'm just doing my best to to get through

[1:00:58] it and and also

[1:01:02] celebrating that this one and unique

[1:01:05] life that we get to live as a gift and

[1:01:07] I'm happy to be here and I feel really

[1:01:11] fortunate to be living the life that I'm

[1:01:13] living and

[1:01:16] uh I have tremendous and beautiful

[1:01:19] things happen to me all the all the time

[1:01:23] >> and if I And if I didn't allow those to

[1:01:26] happen to me, I think I would just be

[1:01:28] living in this broken and crushed and

[1:01:31] depleted

[1:01:32] place. And it's really just a,

[1:01:37] >> you know, my life is much like an

[1:01:39] endurance run. And there's this thing in

[1:01:42] in endurance sports where like if you're

[1:01:45] going a long way, don't worry, it'll

[1:01:48] change. If you're feeling really good,

[1:01:51] you should probably take in some

[1:01:53] calories and drink some water cuz you're

[1:01:55] you're not going to feel good later. And

[1:01:57] if you're feeling really bad, you should

[1:01:59] probably take in some calories and drink

[1:02:00] some water cuz you you'll get better.

[1:02:04] And I've taken that approach to my life

[1:02:08] in many ways and just, you know, know

[1:02:10] that I'll come through some of the

[1:02:12] troughs. And I spent a lot of time

[1:02:15] talking to my therapist about my life

[1:02:16] feeling like a stock chart, like the ups

[1:02:19] and downs of the S&P 500.

[1:02:22] And if you just if you're an investor

[1:02:25] and you know that eventually it's going

[1:02:28] to come back, you don't always sell at

[1:02:30] the bottom and

[1:02:32] you know panic. you you realize things

[1:02:34] are going to move forward

[1:02:37] >> with the

[1:02:38] vast vacasillations of your stock market

[1:02:41] ticker or waveform or whatever you want

[1:02:44] to call it. Um that's set against this

[1:02:48] sort of unspoken assumption that your

[1:02:51] life would be better if that curve was

[1:02:53] flattened like and and you're living a

[1:02:56] more balanced life. And you know,

[1:02:58] Hillary the movie is like talking about

[1:03:00] getting the balance question and saying

[1:03:02] she wants to punch people in the face uh

[1:03:05] around that. Like that's a whole other

[1:03:08] side side question. But

[1:03:11] one difference in these two tragic

[1:03:14] incidents in your life is that is that

[1:03:16] what happened with Hillary was very much

[1:03:19] a public thing. like at this point

[1:03:21] you're public figures and she is this

[1:03:25] just absolutely beloved person not just

[1:03:29] in the climbing community but she

[1:03:32] touched so many people that are way

[1:03:35] outside of this community and you know I

[1:03:37] had the good fortune as I said earlier

[1:03:39] to have met her only once and you know

[1:03:42] maybe we spent a half a day together but

[1:03:44] that's one of the podcasts and

[1:03:46] experiences that that you know I reflect

[1:03:49] on the most of the thousand that I've

[1:03:51] done. Like she just was that kind of

[1:03:53] person. So for people that aren't

[1:03:56] familiar with Hillary Nelson, like what

[1:03:58] was it about her that made her this

[1:04:02] indelible

[1:04:04] figure that inspired so many people all

[1:04:07] over the world?

[1:04:11] Well, she was she was beautiful in mind,

[1:04:16] body, and and energy. She she carried a

[1:04:20] incredible smile. She was incredibly

[1:04:23] fit. She was really strong and

[1:04:27] independent and I think at the same time

[1:04:32] really really humble and really kind and

[1:04:36] really desirous to just

[1:04:39] uplift the people around her and and

[1:04:42] live a good life and live a really

[1:04:45] independent uh driven passionate life. I

[1:04:49] I think she said something about having

[1:04:53] a passion as a compass in life being

[1:04:55] really important and I've latched on to

[1:04:59] that and I think that really defines who

[1:05:02] Hillary is and she picked something that

[1:05:05] she was really passionate about and she

[1:05:07] just drove forward with that that

[1:05:09] passion is something that helped guide

[1:05:11] her in all her

[1:05:13] >> ups and downs and she had a tremendous

[1:05:16] impact on

[1:05:18] people all over the world. And the the

[1:05:20] outpouring of of love and support for

[1:05:23] her after she passed away was

[1:05:27] truly remarkable. And I

[1:05:31] I think that she, you know, has helped

[1:05:35] so many young women and men decide that

[1:05:38] they can they can go do their own

[1:05:41] Hillary [clears throat] moments. And I

[1:05:44] don't think she quite understood the

[1:05:45] impact that she had on you or on the

[1:05:48] world. She was just doing her best and

[1:05:51] as you see in the in the film, just

[1:05:53] trying to not get frustrated with how do

[1:05:56] I pack my bags and finance and prepare

[1:05:59] for this big expedition and this big

[1:06:01] goal in my life and yet get my children

[1:06:04] fed and off to the bus on time cuz every

[1:06:07] single day at home is a new challenge of

[1:06:08] just getting them awake and clothed and

[1:06:11] out of the house and off to school and

[1:06:14] all the things in between that. And I

[1:06:16] think she juggled a a lot in her life

[1:06:19] and really did it with a lot of mastery.

[1:06:24] Although looking into herself, she was

[1:06:27] constantly like,

[1:06:29] "Am I am I good enough? Am

[1:06:32] [clears throat] I doing okay?

[1:06:34] I'm failing at at all these parts of my

[1:06:36] life." But in reality, she was she was

[1:06:39] crushing it and succeeding

[1:06:42] >> because of the way that she lived her

[1:06:44] life.

[1:06:46] She became sort of an avatar for this

[1:06:51] broader discussion around the tension

[1:06:53] between like adult responsibility

[1:06:57] and

[1:06:59] fidelity to authenticity. Like she is a

[1:07:02] mom of these, you know, adolescent

[1:07:05] teenage boys. She has responsibility to

[1:07:09] make sure that they're taken care of.

[1:07:11] but she's just this person who in order

[1:07:14] to be her has to go and do these things.

[1:07:18] And how do you square that equation? And

[1:07:21] lots of people have lots of opinions

[1:07:23] about this. On the one hand, like she is

[1:07:26] the model of the the strong woman who's

[1:07:29] not going to be told that she's got to

[1:07:31] be in the kitchen. Like she's going to

[1:07:33] go do Hillary come hell or high water.

[1:07:37] And not only is she going to go do it,

[1:07:39] she needs to do that in order to be able

[1:07:42] to show up as the best mom that she

[1:07:45] possibly can. On the other side of the

[1:07:48] equation, like how dare she do this?

[1:07:50] Like,

[1:07:52] how irresponsible of her to put herself

[1:07:55] in these risky situations and create a

[1:07:57] scenario in which these boys no longer

[1:08:01] have a mother.

[1:08:02] >> Yeah. And Hillary struggled with that

[1:08:05] internally a lot. Um,

[1:08:08] Jimmy at her memorial service called her

[1:08:11] Athena in Gortex. For people that don't

[1:08:14] know who Hillary was, she was she was

[1:08:16] kind of Athena in in an outfit ready to

[1:08:20] go climb a mountain.

[1:08:23] And

[1:08:24] she was incredibly strong and powerful

[1:08:27] in her own right. And she

[1:08:31] got there through a

[1:08:33] incredible parents, a a really strong

[1:08:36] childhood where she was brought up in

[1:08:39] Seattle and spent a lot of time on a

[1:08:41] boat, had a lot of time by herself, had

[1:08:44] an older brother, an older sister, a lot

[1:08:46] of independence and a lot of freedom

[1:08:48] outside,

[1:08:50] but also grew up in this sort of normal

[1:08:53] patriarchal society and didn't didn't

[1:08:57] want to be that woman in the kitchen

[1:09:00] didn't want to be that person that

[1:09:03] needed to listen to this is what you do

[1:09:05] and this is who you are and she was

[1:09:08] really driven to show herself and

[1:09:13] I think in many ways to her more

[1:09:16] importantly show her children and the

[1:09:18] world that you can have a passion and

[1:09:21] you can live your passion while you

[1:09:24] still exist in our society and on our

[1:09:27] norms. terms

[1:09:29] of being a mother. And [clears throat]

[1:09:32] you know, she would go on these

[1:09:33] expeditions and she'd come back and

[1:09:35] she'd read the comments about, "How dare

[1:09:37] you? How dare you as a as a woman with

[1:09:40] children go do something that were that

[1:09:43] would risk you not coming home."

[1:09:46] And she was dumbfounded with the fact

[1:09:48] that the men that were on those trips

[1:09:51] that didn't have children weren't

[1:09:53] receiving the same comments or that did

[1:09:55] have children.

[1:09:55] >> They did have children, excuse me.

[1:09:56] Right. Right. and she just she just

[1:10:00] couldn't understand why are we as a

[1:10:02] society so focused on there's only you

[1:10:05] know the woman has to be the one that

[1:10:08] needs to stay back and needs to stay

[1:10:10] behind and

[1:10:12] I think she endeavored to have a a true

[1:10:16] balance in in that even though balance

[1:10:20] is hard

[1:10:22] uh she would go to these mountains and

[1:10:24] she would go up along the route and she

[1:10:27] would find somebody that was struggling

[1:10:29] and she'd say, "Let me carry that for

[1:10:31] you. Let me put the tent in my pack. Let

[1:10:34] me put the group group stove in my pack.

[1:10:36] Yes, I also have this other group gear."

[1:10:39] And she would [clears throat]

[1:10:41] historically typically have the heaviest

[1:10:43] pack, man or woman, on the expedition.

[1:10:46] And that's why everyone was so blown

[1:10:48] away by her strength and her fortitude

[1:10:50] in the mountains and her being in front

[1:10:52] still breaking trail for the Sherpa and

[1:10:55] for me while we're going up Monisloo to

[1:10:57] the summit. She's in the front of the

[1:10:59] pack breaking trail. And

[1:11:04] then she would come back to Tellide and

[1:11:07] she would be thrust back into being a

[1:11:09] mom and going to drop off and

[1:11:12] interacting with her friends in this

[1:11:15] normal everyday world of of life at

[1:11:20] home. And that balance was was always

[1:11:23] hard for her, but she did her best to

[1:11:27] walk a fine line through it in the

[1:11:29] manner that she thought was the right

[1:11:31] way to live. It's sort of the version of

[1:11:34] the special operator who returns home

[1:11:36] after, you know, spending time in a

[1:11:38] conflict zone and and has trouble

[1:11:40] acclimating to daily life. Like I would

[1:11:42] imagine returning from some of these

[1:11:44] extraordinary expeditions there is a

[1:11:47] version of that that that you her and

[1:11:50] just your fellow climbers experience.

[1:11:53] Yeah. You come back from this, you know,

[1:11:56] edge of possible existence, pushing

[1:11:59] yourself in a really inhospitable world

[1:12:02] and environment and pushing yourself

[1:12:03] really hard physically, mentally and

[1:12:07] and doing it with a team that you

[1:12:11] endow yourself to. You commit to and you

[1:12:14] know you put your lives in each other's

[1:12:16] hands. And then you you're back home

[1:12:19] waiting in line for a sandwich and you

[1:12:21] see the girl at your sandwich shop and

[1:12:23] she says, "How's it going, Jim?"

[1:12:26] And you're just like, "Well, I I just

[1:12:28] had this crazy event in my life and now

[1:12:31] I'm trying to reassimilate into normaly

[1:12:35] and we call that PTSD, which is

[1:12:37] post-traumatic stoke disorder."

[1:12:39] >> Mhm.

[1:12:39] >> Um it's hard and it's it's also

[1:12:44] wonderful, you I think we're really

[1:12:45] fortunate to be able to push ourselves

[1:12:47] in a way that

[1:12:50] takes mundane life and makes that a

[1:12:52] challenge and something worth living for

[1:12:55] and takes the opposite of mundane and

[1:12:57] makes it a challenge and worth living

[1:12:59] for and [snorts] tries to force us to or

[1:13:02] we try to force ourselves to find a

[1:13:05] balance in all that.

[1:13:08] In the wake of Hillary's passing, uh,

[1:13:12] you now inherit this role in the boy's

[1:13:16] life, a different type of role. The boys

[1:13:19] appear in the movie. Their screen time

[1:13:21] isn't very much, but I think they're

[1:13:24] really the centerpiece of the

[1:13:26] discussions that are happening around

[1:13:27] the movie. this relationship that

[1:13:30] Hillary had to her sons, your

[1:13:32] responsibility to these boys, and the

[1:13:35] decision that you are going to continue

[1:13:37] in this quest to summit the north face

[1:13:40] of Everest and and and ski down, which

[1:13:43] is

[1:13:45] somewhat understandably, I suppose,

[1:13:48] difficult for the average person to get

[1:13:50] their head around. Like, haven't these

[1:13:53] boys suffered enough? Why would you put

[1:13:55] yourself in a position for them to have

[1:13:57] to suffer this again potentially,

[1:14:01] especially after you witnessing

[1:14:05] Hillary's passing and having this

[1:14:07] realization like I don't even want to be

[1:14:09] on this mountain and you know like

[1:14:11] having a having having your like

[1:14:13] relationship with the mountains be

[1:14:14] rearranged by that traumatic event.

[1:14:20] Well, when we lost Hillary,

[1:14:24] I

[1:14:26] felt compelled to do whatever it took to

[1:14:30] go as far and as hard as I could to find

[1:14:32] her and to find her her body,

[1:14:36] >> which you did,

[1:14:37] >> which I did. Then I felt really I felt a

[1:14:42] tremendous sense of responsibility of

[1:14:44] what to do next and how would she want

[1:14:48] to be

[1:14:50] taken care of in the afterlife

[1:14:53] which resulted in us creating this

[1:14:55] cremation ceremony. And

[1:14:59] then I came back to Tellide and I

[1:15:01] figured out what what do I do next? And

[1:15:03] I wanted to plan a memorial service. And

[1:15:06] in that

[1:15:09] thought process, in that journey of what

[1:15:11] to do throughout the whole thing, my

[1:15:13] overarching goal was those boys was how

[1:15:16] do I find I wanted to find her for her

[1:15:19] parents. I wanted to find her for her

[1:15:21] brother and sister, but more importantly

[1:15:25] than anyone else was for those boys. And

[1:15:29] then I wanted to celebrate her so that

[1:15:32] the boys could see that impact that we

[1:15:35] talked about that she had on the world

[1:15:38] that they didn't truly know and

[1:15:40] understand.

[1:15:41] To them, she was just mom. To them, she

[1:15:45] was mom that dragged them up mountains

[1:15:47] and made them go on mountain bike rides

[1:15:49] that they didn't want to go on and, you

[1:15:52] know, dragged them through the mud, so

[1:15:54] to speak, to build some character in

[1:15:57] them. And they loved it and they hated

[1:16:00] it. And it was sort of a typical

[1:16:01] [snorts] relationship with mom. But

[1:16:06] to the world, Hillary was this Athenaike

[1:16:10] woman who

[1:16:12] broke barriers and moved mountains, so

[1:16:16] to speak. And I wanted the boys to know

[1:16:19] and understand that. And so I started

[1:16:22] trying to plan just a celebration of her

[1:16:25] life where I wanted people to speak

[1:16:28] about who Hillary was to them. And I

[1:16:30] think that

[1:16:32] involved, you know, really influential,

[1:16:35] amazing people that had spent time with

[1:16:37] her in the mountains. It involved

[1:16:38] senators. It talked about how she made

[1:16:42] things change in in climate and in

[1:16:45] Congress. And

[1:16:47] talked about the tremendous impact that

[1:16:49] Hillary had left on all of us. And

[1:16:54] then next became day-to-day life of how

[1:16:57] can I keep that going forward? And

[1:17:01] a friend of mine, Timmy O'Neal, said at

[1:17:03] her memorial service that people die

[1:17:06] twice. They die when their soul leaves

[1:17:09] their body and they die a second time

[1:17:12] when spoken word or stories about them

[1:17:14] cease to be told.

[1:17:16] And I took that as a direction and a

[1:17:22] demand to celebrate who Hillary was. And

[1:17:26] going back to Everest became

[1:17:30] a endeavor where we could tell the full

[1:17:34] story about who she was and share that

[1:17:36] with the world and put it on finish this

[1:17:39] film that we were working on and we were

[1:17:41] going to finish either way. it was

[1:17:43] either going to have one outcome or a

[1:17:45] different outcome.

[1:17:47] And I just felt like it was the right

[1:17:50] and honorable thing to do was to try to

[1:17:52] keep going. I thought she would want me

[1:17:53] to do that. And I sit here today proud

[1:17:57] of what we did. And I totally think it's

[1:18:02] fair and understandable that some people

[1:18:04] will watch it and disagree. And some

[1:18:06] people will be threatened by the concept

[1:18:09] of taking those risks and pushing

[1:18:12] yourself that far. And why would you do

[1:18:14] that? And shame on you.

[1:18:16] Well, you've certainly not only did you

[1:18:18] succeed in the goal of summiting and

[1:18:21] skiing down, like you've succeeded in

[1:18:23] creating

[1:18:25] new interest in her story. Like we're

[1:18:28] sitting here today talking about it.

[1:18:29] This movie is going to come out.

[1:18:30] Everybody's going to be talking about

[1:18:32] her. So, she lives on in that way. and

[1:18:35] she lives on in that you committed to

[1:18:39] seeing through this thing that you were

[1:18:41] going to do jointly with her.

[1:18:43] >> Yeah. And I and I did that through this

[1:18:46] selfish act of climbing a mountain and

[1:18:50] skiing down.

[1:18:51] And if if

[1:18:54] if there's there's no other way to

[1:18:59] describe what you do with your free time

[1:19:01] to fuel your body and fuel your mind and

[1:19:07] go out a little farther than you were on

[1:19:09] your last run than saying it's selfish.

[1:19:12] You leave your family behind. You leave

[1:19:14] your kids behind. you leave your

[1:19:15] community behind to go spend those time

[1:19:18] putting in those miles on the trail and

[1:19:20] climbing your proverbial Everest.

[1:19:25] It is selfish. So, I don't want people

[1:19:27] to think that I don't think

[1:19:30] that it is such a such an act. There's

[1:19:32] lots of things we do that are selfish.

[1:19:35] And there's also things that we do that

[1:19:36] that are of necessity like getting up in

[1:19:39] the morning and eating breakfast and

[1:19:40] eating fueling your body is is a

[1:19:42] necessity.

[1:19:45] And then on top of that, the high-risk

[1:19:47] aspect of this that people struggle to

[1:19:51] truly understand. We were talking before

[1:19:52] the podcast and

[1:19:55] and I was saying that part of that is

[1:19:58] premised upon a misconception around the

[1:20:02] certainty of life. Like life is

[1:20:04] uncertain, there's no guarantees. And we

[1:20:06] sort of say that flippantly

[1:20:09] while also believing that if we live our

[1:20:13] lives in a in a kind of traditional way

[1:20:16] that we then are in control of the

[1:20:19] future in a way that we're not. That is

[1:20:21] truly an illusion. And so people like

[1:20:23] yourself and Alex Honold and you know

[1:20:26] these sort of like individuals who have

[1:20:29] a different relationship with risk uh

[1:20:31] are confronting for the average person

[1:20:34] who is living their life in a way where

[1:20:36] they're trying to create security

[1:20:38] through predicting the future and this

[1:20:41] sort of illusion of being able to

[1:20:43] control outcomes. What's going to happen

[1:20:45] tomorrow? Well, if I do this then I'll

[1:20:46] be safe tomorrow.

[1:20:49] And your life is a testament I mean it's

[1:20:51] in the context of taking tremendous

[1:20:53] risks but your life is a testament to

[1:20:55] this uncertainty like things happen

[1:20:58] they're bad but we still have to move

[1:21:01] forward get up every single day and the

[1:21:04] best way to honor these people who have

[1:21:07] passed that we love is to bring them

[1:21:09] with us and to live the best life that

[1:21:12] we can rather than ruminate or become a

[1:21:16] victim or isolate from community and

[1:21:19] humanity and nature.

[1:21:22] I appreciate that. I think

[1:21:26] I've

[1:21:28] I've been given the

[1:21:31] the opportunity to move forward with

[1:21:35] life after tremendous loss. And I've

[1:21:38] taken it as as just that. Uh I could say

[1:21:43] woe is me every day and say I wish my

[1:21:45] kids were here. I wish I was going to

[1:21:48] parents weekend like friends of mine are

[1:21:50] at their respective colleges this

[1:21:53] weekend. Or I could wish I still had

[1:21:56] them like the two infants I held in my

[1:21:59] arms last night. A couple friends that

[1:22:01] had baby girls recently,

[1:22:05] but I I don't have them here. And I

[1:22:11] didn't make a choice to not have them

[1:22:13] here. I make a choice of how am I going

[1:22:16] to spend my time and how am I going to

[1:22:18] move forward and sometimes I take

[1:22:21] unnecessary risks. Uh and there are

[1:22:25] there are those that don't think

[1:22:27] unnecessary risks are worth taking. I

[1:22:30] was walking to a rock climb recently and

[1:22:34] this is somewhere I go often and there's

[1:22:36] a tree that fell down across this uh

[1:22:39] ravine of granite. And I kept looking at

[1:22:42] that tree thinking I could walk across

[1:22:44] the tree instead of walking down into

[1:22:46] the bottom and back up, but it was it

[1:22:49] was like a teeter totter. And one day I

[1:22:51] walked across it and it it teetered

[1:22:54] until the other end of the tree hit the

[1:22:55] rock on the other side and stopped. And

[1:22:58] then I was able to continue across it.

[1:23:00] And it looked a little sketchy. It

[1:23:01] looked like maybe you would fall off if

[1:23:03] if you did it. And I was walking up

[1:23:06] there with a friend and I did it with

[1:23:08] her and she said, "That's an unnecessary

[1:23:11] risk." She walked around. And I and I

[1:23:14] was like, "Wow, that is a really good

[1:23:16] name for a rock climb." Uh I I really

[1:23:20] like that. And I thought about it a lot

[1:23:22] since. And I'm a person that likes to

[1:23:25] take unnecessary risks. I realize that

[1:23:28] in of of myself and I don't think

[1:23:30] there's something

[1:23:32] inherently wrong with that. I wasn't

[1:23:35] endangering anyone else. And I like

[1:23:39] pushing myself a little bit whether it's

[1:23:41] in this conversation with you or in

[1:23:44] walking to the crag instead of doing the

[1:23:47] the same normaly of what I normally do.

[1:23:50] I like trying to find a faster way

[1:23:52] across that little ravine and shave a

[1:23:55] few seconds off and do a little more.

[1:23:58] That's just who I am.

[1:23:59] >> I saw some panel discussion and it was

[1:24:01] you and Alex and Jimmy. I don't know

[1:24:03] what event this was. cuz I was watching

[1:24:04] it this morning and

[1:24:07] there was a question around like

[1:24:08] motivation and drive and Jimmy was like

[1:24:12] Jim doesn't have an issue with this like

[1:24:13] you just wake up every day like with

[1:24:16] this feeling like of I have to

[1:24:17] [clears throat] do something you know

[1:24:19] not necessarily crazy but like I have to

[1:24:20] push myself and you know where is that

[1:24:22] edge and what am I trying to accomplish

[1:24:24] today like you don't have a problem with

[1:24:27] that like you just wake up animated to

[1:24:29] >> no I'm just I'm an achiever I I took the

[1:24:31] the I there's a book called

[1:24:33] StrengthFinder. And I I did that many

[1:24:35] many years ago. And I if you fill out a

[1:24:38] form, you do it online, you take a test,

[1:24:40] it tells you what your strengths are.

[1:24:41] And there's a book full of all these

[1:24:43] great wonderful attributes that all of

[1:24:45] us humans have. And my number one was

[1:24:48] achiever. And and what I read in that

[1:24:51] description of what achiever means is

[1:24:52] you start every day at zero.

[1:24:54] >> Mhm.

[1:24:54] >> No matter what you did yesterday, you're

[1:24:56] starting over today. You've got to

[1:24:58] achieve something. You got to get there.

[1:25:00] And it's a it's a blessing and a curse.

[1:25:03] But it's just how I how I am. How am I

[1:25:05] going to maximize what I'm going to get

[1:25:07] out of this day? And when someone turns

[1:25:10] to me and says, "It seems like you're

[1:25:12] just trying to like figure out how you

[1:25:14] can fit more into your day and do even

[1:25:16] more and get more out of it. Like when

[1:25:18] are is you're driving me crazy." And I

[1:25:20] I'll look back at them like what else

[1:25:23] would you do? Like if we can get this

[1:25:25] done and go for a run and have a

[1:25:28] wonderful dinner where we meet some new

[1:25:30] people and have

[1:25:31] >> a great time and do something we've

[1:25:34] never done and before we go to bed

[1:25:37] tonight, that seems good to me. I mean,

[1:25:39] if we can solve the [clears throat]

[1:25:41] cancer and

[1:25:43] help somebody across the road and do

[1:25:46] something else, I'd much prefer to do

[1:25:48] that than than less.

[1:25:49] >> I'm with you. I'm wired the same way.

[1:25:52] Uh, but I think Echar Tol might have

[1:25:54] choice words for that. You know, he's a

[1:25:56] guy it's it's a Zen Cohen because you

[1:25:59] want to wake up excited about life and

[1:26:01] you want to chase things and achieve

[1:26:02] things and build things and be of

[1:26:04] service to people and, you know, have

[1:26:07] that relationship with life that is

[1:26:10] invigorating while also at the same time

[1:26:13] recognizing that

[1:26:15] stillness is actually the place to be.

[1:26:18] And if that impulse to climb the giant

[1:26:21] mountain is being animated around a

[1:26:25] story of whatever happened to you when

[1:26:27] you were a kid and this misconception

[1:26:31] that that summit is going to make you

[1:26:35] feel a certain way about yourself or

[1:26:37] fulfill a need or like a hole in your

[1:26:41] soul. Um then you're kind of on this

[1:26:45] hamster wheel.

[1:26:46] >> Absolutely. that you can never get off

[1:26:48] of. And the exit ramp to that hamster

[1:26:51] wheel is the path that Eart is talking

[1:26:55] about. And these things have to kind of

[1:26:56] live in tandem with each other. For me,

[1:27:00] that's what I found they have to do. He

[1:27:02] he not only does he talk about stillness

[1:27:04] being important, he talks about standing

[1:27:06] in line at the grocery store and seeing

[1:27:09] that infant and flirting with her and

[1:27:12] getting the joy out of that. And he

[1:27:14] talks about not

[1:27:18] sitting in your backyard watching the

[1:27:20] seagull come and land perpetually. You

[1:27:25] there has to be a balance in that. You

[1:27:27] can't just

[1:27:28] >> say, "Okay, I'm going to focus on

[1:27:30] accepting all the good in my life and

[1:27:32] I'm going to sit outside in my backyard

[1:27:34] which has this incredible view, the

[1:27:37] place that I live in Lake Tahoe."

[1:27:40] And I have been given so much by that

[1:27:43] environment and that sublime view that I

[1:27:47] have. And I've taken so much from being

[1:27:50] there. And it and it infuses me with a

[1:27:53] lot of good things. And it's allowed me

[1:27:55] to slow down and accept and

[1:27:58] process and just be still. But for me, I

[1:28:02] can't do it perpetually. I have to

[1:28:04] continue to challenge myself and I have

[1:28:07] to continue to put myself out there in

[1:28:09] my society and not just go build a house

[1:28:13] in the woods and

[1:28:15] do nothing. Uh that doesn't feel like

[1:28:19] the right path for me. And it is a

[1:28:21] constant

[1:28:23] struggle of of am I [clears throat]

[1:28:24] present or am I just trying to create a

[1:28:26] new problem to go solve. After seeing

[1:28:30] Free Solo, I didn't think it was

[1:28:31] possible for Jimmy or anyone else to

[1:28:35] create

[1:28:38] an adventure documentary that could

[1:28:40] compete with what he achieved in that

[1:28:42] film.

[1:28:44] This movie does that. The visuals are so

[1:28:48] arresting and I just watched it at home

[1:28:49] on my television. I can't imagine what

[1:28:51] it looks like in IMAX. I can't wait to

[1:28:54] see it in the [clears throat] theater in

[1:28:55] that way. Um,

[1:28:58] on some level it's a sports documentary.

[1:29:01] You're seeing avalanches. You get a

[1:29:04] sense of how precipitous the grade is

[1:29:06] when you're skiing down and how icy it

[1:29:09] is and

[1:29:11] just one small move and it's over with.

[1:29:13] Like I just my palms were sweating. I

[1:29:16] just couldn't believe

[1:29:18] how compelling and arresting and and

[1:29:21] gripping it was. I really felt like I

[1:29:24] was there like in lock step with what

[1:29:27] was happening.

[1:29:30] It's expertly rendered and it's also a

[1:29:33] really difficult watch

[1:29:36] and it's been interesting to gauge this

[1:29:38] early reaction to the movie and the

[1:29:41] conversations that are percolating up

[1:29:43] around it. Even though the only people

[1:29:45] that have seen it to date are people who

[1:29:48] have attended these festivals. Venice

[1:29:50] Film Festival, Telluride Film Festival,

[1:29:53] Toronto, right? Those are the big three.

[1:29:55] I'm a huge movie buff. I listen to all

[1:29:58] these movie podcasts. I have a favorite

[1:30:00] film commentator. This guy Sean

[1:30:02] Fennessy, he co-hosts a a podcast called

[1:30:05] The Big Picture.

[1:30:08] and he said,

[1:30:11] "This movie looks incredible. It has

[1:30:14] pulverizing emotional moments. It's one

[1:30:17] of those movies like everyone was

[1:30:18] talking about at all of these festivals.

[1:30:20] Like, you got to go see it. It's a

[1:30:21] mustsee. It's a mustsee. I'm not going

[1:30:23] to tell you what happens, but like you

[1:30:24] have to see it."

[1:30:26] He also said, "It's about people whose

[1:30:28] psychologies I don't understand at all.

[1:30:31] Like, I have no idea what compels people

[1:30:33] to do the things that they do in these

[1:30:36] films."

[1:30:37] And I also had some frankly like ethical

[1:30:41] misgivings about it like should this

[1:30:44] movie even exist while also weeping

[1:30:48] three times

[1:30:50] during the movie and I think that

[1:30:52] crystallizes

[1:30:54] how many people are going to feel when

[1:30:58] they see this movie. There is this

[1:31:00] internal conflict. I'm seeing this

[1:31:03] arresting thing. It's so astonishing.

[1:31:06] There is something celebratory about you

[1:31:09] seeing this through and having this

[1:31:12] cathartic moment at not only achieving

[1:31:14] your goal, but as a symbol of

[1:31:17] reconciliation for all of the loss that

[1:31:20] you have endured, while also having

[1:31:24] these emotions around the risks that you

[1:31:28] have taken and the people who are in the

[1:31:32] crosshairs as a result of the risks. And

[1:31:34] it's not just you. The movie does a good

[1:31:36] job of going into the homes of so many

[1:31:39] of the crew members and the people and

[1:31:41] the sherpas etc. All of whom also have

[1:31:43] families, sometimes children, spouses,

[1:31:48] uh newly there's a newly married couple

[1:31:51] and you get a real sense of the wager

[1:31:53] that's taking place for not just you but

[1:31:57] all of the people that have bought into

[1:31:59] you realizing this dream.

[1:32:02] And I think it's really difficult for

[1:32:04] the average person who, like we were

[1:32:06] talking about earlier, who has a

[1:32:07] different relationship with risk, who

[1:32:09] isn't called to the mountains in the way

[1:32:12] that you and Hillary are to get their

[1:32:15] heads around this.

[1:32:17] So, what do you want to say to that

[1:32:18] person who is feeling that internal

[1:32:21] tension and is unsure

[1:32:24] about how to feel about this film and

[1:32:27] and not just the film, but like the

[1:32:29] actual lived events that transpire on

[1:32:32] the film?

[1:32:35] There's a there's that's a really

[1:32:37] profound and and deep question that I

[1:32:40] think will take the rest of my life to

[1:32:43] fully think about how to answer. And I

[1:32:46] hope I will sit down and write a book

[1:32:48] about it at some point.

[1:32:50] But I think you said something earlier

[1:32:54] about

[1:32:56] painting painting a line and and at that

[1:33:00] moment I thought about a climb and a ski

[1:33:03] that Hillary and I did on a a mountain

[1:33:05] in India where she had been for 20 plus

[1:33:09] years trying to get to this mountain

[1:33:11] this and she carried a photograph of it

[1:33:13] and she had made a life out of trying to

[1:33:16] get to this mountain and we skied it and

[1:33:18] we made the first descent of it and the

[1:33:20] Next day it snowed and our tracks, the

[1:33:22] lines we painted on it were erased

[1:33:24] forever.

[1:33:26] >> Like a mandelola, like the monks who do

[1:33:28] the sand mandelas.

[1:33:29] >> Yeah. And I I guess to some degree this

[1:33:32] would be our passion and in our art.

[1:33:37] Uh

[1:33:39] I feel compelled to do what I do. It's

[1:33:43] it's not something that I'm making just

[1:33:46] a conscious decision to do, which

[1:33:48] certainly I am. I am a very fortunate

[1:33:53] human being that has everything that I

[1:33:55] could need and want and I can do what I

[1:33:58] want to do and I it's not lost on me

[1:34:00] that I have tremendous good fortune to

[1:34:03] put me in this chair. But

[1:34:07] I'm just living who I am. And I have I

[1:34:09] have this calling and I've gotten good

[1:34:11] at it. I've found it along the way. And

[1:34:13] it's it's what I do. It's it and I don't

[1:34:17] really believe in you are what you do.

[1:34:20] I'm more of the of the mindset of you do

[1:34:23] what you are. And this is who I am. And

[1:34:27] I'm compelled to do it and I'm good at

[1:34:30] it. And I know I can do it. I knew I

[1:34:34] could accomplish this goal and I

[1:34:37] struggled a lot with should I keep going

[1:34:40] uh not only after losing Hillary but

[1:34:42] after going there and failing and going

[1:34:45] back and failing again

[1:34:47] >> and it was never lost on me that there

[1:34:49] was a tremendous amount of risk not just

[1:34:51] for me but for the entire team that was

[1:34:54] [clears throat] there supporting me

[1:34:58] but they wanted to do it too and that's

[1:35:00] who they were they were collectively

[1:35:03] joined in this effort to try to achieve

[1:35:06] this goal of getting to the top of the

[1:35:09] mountain so that I could ski back down.

[1:35:12] I understand it if you just can't look

[1:35:14] at that and find meaning in it or or

[1:35:17] find hope or find joy

[1:35:21] or see the music that we're trying to

[1:35:24] play or or appreciate the art that we're

[1:35:27] trying to make. Uh,

[1:35:31] and there be plenty of people that

[1:35:32] listen to that that just poo poo it and

[1:35:35] disagree and and I think that's okay. We

[1:35:38] We're all We all have different passions

[1:35:40] in life and we're all here for different

[1:35:42] reasons. And

[1:35:46] I've from a very young age was compelled

[1:35:49] to ski off the off the pie off the side

[1:35:52] of the run and felt a tremendous

[1:35:55] satisfaction of going somewhere that I

[1:35:58] felt like people hadn't gone before and

[1:36:01] exploring whether that was in my

[1:36:03] backyard or in the game I was playing in

[1:36:05] my room or on Everest. And I think for

[1:36:11] me that's provided a tremendous amount

[1:36:13] of drive and and passion and selfworth

[1:36:19] and I've tried to honor that and push it

[1:36:22] forward.

[1:36:24] You mentioned the art of it

[1:36:27] and when you use that word, I can't help

[1:36:29] but think about Dean Potter

[1:36:32] and this Dark Wizard series that, you

[1:36:35] know, came out recently because he very

[1:36:38] much inhabited the artist spirit in

[1:36:41] terms of his

[1:36:43] relationship with adventure and risk and

[1:36:46] was somebody who

[1:36:49] who leveraged his darkness to achieve

[1:36:52] these amazing things in both healthy and

[1:36:55] unhealthy ways. Like he was trying to

[1:36:57] reach

[1:36:59] some sense of purity of existence. Like

[1:37:03] that was the kind of event horizon of of

[1:37:07] his quest. But while he was motivated by

[1:37:12] you know some really like challenging

[1:37:14] emotional dark

[1:37:18] inspirations.

[1:37:20] I see yours as very different. I mean,

[1:37:22] first of all, I would dismiss people who

[1:37:26] want to look at what you have done or

[1:37:28] just your relationship with the outdoors

[1:37:32] at large as some kind of ego-driven

[1:37:36] stunt thing. Like, this isn't like

[1:37:39] a Red Bull situation, you know, where

[1:37:41] you're just trying to do an insane thing

[1:37:44] for the LS and the likes.

[1:37:47] nor is your motivation one that comes

[1:37:52] from from that like really gristly dark

[1:37:55] place. Like I feel like your why

[1:37:58] is deeper and more profound. Like you're

[1:38:01] trying to make sense of these things

[1:38:02] that have happened in your life. You're

[1:38:04] trying to reconcile your grief and your

[1:38:06] loss. You're trying to

[1:38:09] connect with the divine or the ineffable

[1:38:12] or try to have a spiritual understanding

[1:38:14] of your place in the world and come to

[1:38:17] or arrive at a place of peace with all

[1:38:20] of this so that you can come down from

[1:38:21] the mountain and share for the benefit

[1:38:24] of others what you have discovered by

[1:38:27] dancing at the very edges of what's

[1:38:30] possible. Like I that's how I see the

[1:38:33] whole thing. And it puts you in a a

[1:38:35] powerful position to speak to people who

[1:38:37] have suffered loss and grief and share

[1:38:40] some inspiration and some tools for how

[1:38:43] to process this and how to move forward

[1:38:45] and how to continue to engage with

[1:38:50] the beautiful temporary aspect of being

[1:38:53] in a human body.

[1:38:55] I appreciate that. Um, I think that my

[1:39:00] my journey through

[1:39:02] climbing mountains and and taking risks

[1:39:05] is is certainly different than Dean

[1:39:08] Potter's and that I'm not coming from a

[1:39:10] place of of darkness. I I would like to

[1:39:13] think I'm coming from a place of light.

[1:39:15] >> Mhm.

[1:39:16] >> And I've always wanted to do this. I've

[1:39:19] always been the person that I am today

[1:39:21] since I was a small boy.

[1:39:24] and losing my family, losing my children

[1:39:30] brought me back to the mountains. My

[1:39:32] life sort of came full circle back to

[1:39:36] pushing myself on skis and going uphill.

[1:39:39] And that that came through

[1:39:42] the physical effort of of enduring what

[1:39:44] it takes to go up, bringing like

[1:39:48] breaking me down to a more raw self

[1:39:51] where I was able to connect with them in

[1:39:54] a better way. And I was able to break

[1:39:57] down my own barriers and choose to sort

[1:40:00] of package them up and take them with

[1:40:02] me. And I I think

[1:40:06] I have this belief that

[1:40:10] when you lose someone, you're draped in

[1:40:14] this incredible grief. And I've often

[1:40:17] said that it feels like a big heavy wet

[1:40:19] blanket that you put on yourself.

[1:40:22] And you don't ever get rid of it. You

[1:40:25] don't you it doesn't go away. It's not

[1:40:28] something you move past or move on from

[1:40:30] or get over. Those are these are words

[1:40:32] that people are are you over it yet? Are

[1:40:35] >> are you good now? And you learn to to

[1:40:38] package that up and to take it with you.

[1:40:41] And

[1:40:42] I have this this visual sense of that

[1:40:46] and and I've enacted it in the mountains

[1:40:48] by like packing that up into my backpack

[1:40:51] and putting the backpack on my shoulders

[1:40:53] and walking up the sort of cyphas hill

[1:40:57] rolling the rock up the mountain and

[1:40:59] going through the suffering

[1:41:01] >> which

[1:41:03] has helped me

[1:41:06] myself ego

[1:41:09] get through to the other side and and

[1:41:12] put one foot in front of another and do

[1:41:14] my best. And it is all those things.

[1:41:17] It's a it there is selfishness in it.

[1:41:20] There's selflessness in it. There's ego

[1:41:22] in it. And there's a lot of things that

[1:41:24] I'm doing that aren't for the ego. I I

[1:41:27] learned from EART about the ego and that

[1:41:30] it's something we all have no matter

[1:41:32] what. And if you can take it and put it

[1:41:34] in a box and I sort of visualize it

[1:41:36] right here on my shoulder

[1:41:38] and if I know that that's part of what's

[1:41:42] going on in myself, then I can

[1:41:44] understand, okay, how do I make sure I

[1:41:46] don't let it drive where we're going.

[1:41:49] But

[1:41:50] >> I've just lived this life that I'm

[1:41:51] living to I'm just doing my best along

[1:41:54] the way. And

[1:41:57] uh I hope that I can sort of encapsulate

[1:42:01] some of the why for for some people of

[1:42:03] how they can move forward after they had

[1:42:06] a hard day at the office or they lost

[1:42:08] their their cat or they lost their

[1:42:11] children in an accident. And we're all

[1:42:15] going to lose things. And you said it

[1:42:17] earlier and I I think it's worth

[1:42:19] bringing up again. Nobody gets out

[1:42:20] alive. That's a a Jim Morrison

[1:42:24] comment. No one here gets out alive. And

[1:42:26] I've I've known that my whole life. I've

[1:42:31] from a young age embodied that spirit.

[1:42:34] And I think I feel like

[1:42:39] we're in this magnificent place called

[1:42:42] planet Earth. And it's the it's the best

[1:42:44] it's ever going to be today. It's not

[1:42:47] it's not going to get better tomorrow.

[1:42:50] We're we're hurting our planet. We're

[1:42:53] degrading our world. I don't think our

[1:42:56] society is going towards better as a

[1:42:59] collective being. I I think uh we should

[1:43:03] relish where we are and appreciate where

[1:43:06] we are and do our best to celebrate the

[1:43:09] good things in life.

[1:43:12] >> The day that you summited,

[1:43:15] it was just a gorgeous day. I mean, the

[1:43:17] sky was completely blue.

[1:43:20] At one point, I don't know if you were

[1:43:22] at camp 3, you're like, "Oh, it's it's

[1:43:25] going to go down to like 30 below

[1:43:27] tonight." So, it's cold. But then, like,

[1:43:32] is it that cold during the day? Like,

[1:43:33] when the sun is shining, you guys have

[1:43:35] your gloves off. Like, it strikes me as

[1:43:37] fairly temperate. I don't know if that's

[1:43:39] really what it is, but maybe like

[1:43:42] relatively. Um, but the point being like

[1:43:45] it was this amazing day and it was

[1:43:46] literally the last day before your

[1:43:48] permit was gonna expire, right? And

[1:43:50] Jimmy's like, "Why is it always this

[1:43:52] way?" Like you're you you you start this

[1:43:54] in August and you're in midocctober,

[1:43:57] right? By the by the time you're you're

[1:43:59] like summiting the amount of time that

[1:44:01] you guys are up there and waiting for

[1:44:03] that weather window. But the ski

[1:44:05] conditions were absolutely horrific. I

[1:44:08] mean, it was just a sheet of ice. So the

[1:44:10] prospect of you skiing down that was

[1:44:13] total insanity. I mean that meant less

[1:44:16] likelihood for there there weren't going

[1:44:17] to be any avalanches because it was

[1:44:20] locked in but it just raised the risk

[1:44:23] element of the ski part to like 11. And

[1:44:27] watching you do that and the way it was

[1:44:28] filmed where you can really see and feel

[1:44:31] the grade and the risk had me on the

[1:44:35] edge of my seat. I mean that's where it

[1:44:37] did feel like this sports documentary.

[1:44:39] Obviously, you succeed in in this

[1:44:42] descent which takes you four hours

[1:44:45] and you emit this cathartic

[1:44:49] like primal scream that almost feels

[1:44:51] like a bookend to the scream when you're

[1:44:54] in your laundry room and you feel like

[1:44:58] you can't go on and you see the pine

[1:45:00] needles. Like there's a thread from that

[1:45:02] moment to this moment that feels like

[1:45:06] something has been completed.

[1:45:09] Yeah. And I I did really complete

[1:45:13] something there. I

[1:45:16] I had a tremendous moment on top of

[1:45:19] Everest with Hillary where I I felt like

[1:45:23] all of the

[1:45:26] the effort that was put into this, all

[1:45:29] of the loss, all of the

[1:45:32] tears that were shed over losing her.

[1:45:34] For me personally,

[1:45:36] in our collective drive to to do this

[1:45:40] thing, we we I felt like she was there

[1:45:43] with me and we saw it through and we

[1:45:45] made it to the top. And then I had to

[1:45:47] turn and

[1:45:49] take off my extra big down layers and

[1:45:51] turn into a skier and stand on the top

[1:45:53] of Everest like I was at home. And the

[1:45:55] sun was shining on me and I felt

[1:45:59] pretty pretty good in that moment. I

[1:46:01] felt like I had about 5 minutes before

[1:46:02] I'd have severe frostbite and I needed

[1:46:04] to get out of there.

[1:46:06] Uh, and I skied down and I was in the

[1:46:10] most present form I could be for those

[1:46:13] four hours.

[1:46:15] You know, laser focused on exactly what

[1:46:17] was right in front of me and nothing

[1:46:19] else. And I wasn't thinking about

[1:46:20] Hillary and I wasn't thinking about

[1:46:23] anything other than exactly what I was

[1:46:25] doing that whole time. and

[1:46:27] >> one tiny slip up and and you're you're

[1:46:30] going down to your death. Like I think

[1:46:32] you say like you know if I'm a half inch

[1:46:34] off in these turns.

[1:46:37] >> Yeah. It was really consequential skiing

[1:46:39] and really really difficult

[1:46:42] conditions. 11 on the condition scale.

[1:46:45] And

[1:46:46] and then I crossed the Bertrand at the

[1:46:49] bottom and I got to safety for the first

[1:46:51] time in that whole descent.

[1:46:54] And I just had this tremendous release

[1:46:57] of

[1:46:59] immediate connection to Hillary,

[1:47:01] immediate like, "We did it. We did it,

[1:47:03] Hillary. We we we pulled it off."

[1:47:08] And [snorts]

[1:47:10] I think what is really interesting for

[1:47:13] me personally is looking back up at the

[1:47:16] mountain the next day and the following

[1:47:19] day from our advanced base camp and

[1:47:21] staring up at this sort of giant

[1:47:25] proverbial

[1:47:27] goal and weight and difficulty that I

[1:47:31] was always trying to overcome. And I was

[1:47:33] always trying to build an arsenal and a

[1:47:37] team and go to battle with this huge

[1:47:41] challenging thing called Mount Everest

[1:47:43] in my case, but everyone has their own

[1:47:45] version of this.

[1:47:48] And I

[1:47:50] thought about and dreamt about and

[1:47:51] visualized all the different things that

[1:47:53] could go wrong and how I could good my

[1:47:56] best day and my worst day. And and then

[1:47:59] at after I achieved it, I skied down and

[1:48:03] I looked up at the mountain and now it's

[1:48:05] just this like I see Hillary on the

[1:48:07] summit. I feel her energy and I feel

[1:48:11] this throughine from the laundry room

[1:48:13] floor to today where I feel a sense of

[1:48:19] peace. I don't think there's a better

[1:48:21] word for it with

[1:48:24] I I did my best to see this this thing

[1:48:28] through and we pulled it off and

[1:48:31] >> it [clears throat] was really really fun

[1:48:33] and really really hard and

[1:48:37] just like some of your career as a

[1:48:40] runner. You you get a lot of

[1:48:41] satisfaction out of making it across to

[1:48:44] your goal and getting to the finish

[1:48:46] line. But doing that with

[1:48:49] Hillary and celebrating her life and

[1:48:52] seeing her larger than life on the

[1:48:55] screen and

[1:48:57] watching her son Quinn see her for the

[1:48:59] first time on the screen and it breaking

[1:49:01] him down to just a incredibly raw and

[1:49:05] emotional state of just sobbing for a

[1:49:09] period of many many minutes after he

[1:49:11] watched the movie for the first time and

[1:49:13] then talking to him about it afterwards.

[1:49:16] and

[1:49:17] celebrating who she was and having it be

[1:49:20] something that, you know, it it hurt him

[1:49:22] so much because it was so real. And her

[1:49:26] just her voice for him brought him back

[1:49:29] to who

[1:49:31] she was and that she's not here anymore.

[1:49:34] And I think we

[1:49:36] are at a challenge of whether when we

[1:49:38] lose someone, whether we ignore those

[1:49:41] feelings and suppress them and push them

[1:49:43] away so that we can get to breakfast and

[1:49:46] move through our day or whether we take

[1:49:48] them with us and celebrate who they are.

[1:49:51] And

[1:49:52] I think that Quinn's starting to find a

[1:49:55] balance through that on his own. And I

[1:49:58] think there's some positives that the

[1:50:00] film will help him do that.

[1:50:04] And the other boy, Graden.

[1:50:06] >> Graden. Graden's a senior in high

[1:50:09] school. He's doing really well. Uh he's

[1:50:12] in Costa Rica right now at surf camp

[1:50:15] mixing school with surfing and uh put in

[1:50:19] a lot of hard work in the first three

[1:50:20] years of high school and applied to

[1:50:22] school already. And hopefully he's going

[1:50:24] to he's very very studious and excited

[1:50:28] about what's in front of him. And both

[1:50:30] of the boys are doing well and I'm

[1:50:31] really proud of them. and [snorts] they

[1:50:34] both live with their father full-time

[1:50:35] when they're not in school. And uh

[1:50:39] I think they have a tremendous community

[1:50:41] around them trying to support them and

[1:50:44] this

[1:50:45] challenging thing called life with with

[1:50:48] one parent and

[1:50:50] >> one great community and no no Hillary.

[1:50:53] I'm glad to hear that you're familiar

[1:50:56] with a certain kind of high alitude

[1:51:00] existence, but not the one that you're

[1:51:02] currently occupying, which is not a base

[1:51:05] camp. It's like the Venice Film Festival

[1:51:08] and the Telleride Film Festival and the

[1:51:10] Toronto Film Festival. Like you've

[1:51:12] you've traded, you know, one extreme

[1:51:14] experience for another. Uh and now

[1:51:17] you're on the kind of like press circuit

[1:51:20] with the film. like that is disorienting

[1:51:23] in a different way. Like how has this

[1:51:24] experience been for you to be like doing

[1:51:27] this red carpet thing?

[1:51:29] >> It's pretty wild. It's been pretty uh

[1:51:32] unique and different and

[1:51:35] I'm just trying to take it as a you know

[1:51:38] a a [clears throat] new and interesting

[1:51:40] life opportunity and celebrate it where

[1:51:43] where I can. And and then I've also

[1:51:45] found myself back home in Lake Tahoe,

[1:51:49] [clears throat] going to the same old

[1:51:51] cliff to go rock climbing with the same

[1:51:54] old friends I've had for multiple

[1:51:56] decades and turning to them and being

[1:51:58] like, there [clears throat] is nowhere

[1:51:59] else on planet Earth I'd rather be on

[1:52:01] this Saturday than right here, right now

[1:52:03] with you guys. And [snorts] it really

[1:52:06] has helped me uh appreciate those those

[1:52:10] rare moments where you're,

[1:52:13] you know, having dinner with John

[1:52:15] Malovich and talking to him about who

[1:52:17] you are and telling him about this film

[1:52:19] and then seeing him at the film the next

[1:52:22] day and he decided to go and then seeing

[1:52:24] him at a party afterwards and having him

[1:52:26] be so excited about what he got out of

[1:52:29] the film and how powerful the story is

[1:52:32] for him and uh you

[1:52:35] Oh, you're going to be in Toronto. I'll

[1:52:37] I'll see you in London. And it's been

[1:52:40] >> your new buddy.

[1:52:41] >> It's been fun to have those wild

[1:52:43] >> those interactions. Uh,

[1:52:47] and it's also, you know, really not lost

[1:52:50] on me that I'm

[1:52:53] very fortunate and very proud of and

[1:52:57] appreciative of this community that's

[1:53:00] put their arms around me the moment my

[1:53:02] wife and children crashed and has done

[1:53:06] so much to to help me through this this

[1:53:09] challenge we call life.

[1:53:13] I'm fascinated by this friendship that

[1:53:15] you have with Oprah. How did this start?

[1:53:18] I mean, you were She threw like a like a

[1:53:22] big thing for you and Tellide at her.

[1:53:24] Does she have a house there? Like at her

[1:53:25] house? You did her podcast. But from

[1:53:28] what I understand, there's like a real

[1:53:29] friendship here. Like she is very drawn

[1:53:32] to you. Like how did that start? What is

[1:53:34] that about? Like I want to know

[1:53:36] everything about this. [laughter]

[1:53:38] >> Well, whatever you're comfortable

[1:53:40] sharing. I mean, I'm I'm very

[1:53:43] comfortable with with the whole thing.

[1:53:45] She's just an incredible person and just

[1:53:48] has a a way about her of of lifting the

[1:53:53] room up, lifting the world up, lifting

[1:53:56] humanity up, and she's got a tremendous

[1:53:58] amount of energy and just her aura is it

[1:54:03] spectacular to be around. And I I met

[1:54:07] her essentially at doing her podcast. I

[1:54:11] was asked to be on her podcast. I was at

[1:54:14] the same time I was going to be in Santa

[1:54:16] Barbara speaking at an event. And they

[1:54:19] asked me if I would do it on a Tuesday

[1:54:20] because they knew I was speaking on a

[1:54:22] Wednesday. And I said, "No, I can't do

[1:54:23] it." And the reason I said no is because

[1:54:25] I wanted to wa have her watch me tell my

[1:54:28] story and then I would go to her podcast

[1:54:31] afterwards. and

[1:54:34] she leapt out of her chair and I pointed

[1:54:37] at her and I said, "I'll see you

[1:54:38] tomorrow." And I went to her house the

[1:54:40] next day and did this podcast and she

[1:54:43] just she's just a very real and special

[1:54:47] woman who I connected with and I love

[1:54:51] talking to and love sharing stories with

[1:54:53] and and we both had homes in Tellide. So

[1:54:57] she told me when she was coming to

[1:54:58] Tellide and we had dinner and

[1:55:01] uh you know just sitting at a table with

[1:55:04] Oprah Winfrey sharing a meal was is one

[1:55:07] of the true joys of my lifetime and

[1:55:10] hearing [snorts] her stories about how

[1:55:12] what she did in her business and how she

[1:55:15] built her business and

[1:55:17] what what just how she works in her mind

[1:55:20] is is is truly

[1:55:23] magnificent. And I think she just spends

[1:55:26] every day trying to figure out how she

[1:55:28] can make the world a better place, one

[1:55:31] little incremental

[1:55:33] >> step at a time. And she lifts a few

[1:55:35] people up and those people lift more

[1:55:37] people up. And I think she's just made a

[1:55:40] tremendous impact on on humanity. And to

[1:55:43] be around it, I for me it's just it's a

[1:55:46] gift.

[1:55:47] >> It's pretty cool. like she

[1:55:50] has gone out of her way like she's she's

[1:55:53] enamored with you like for you know like

[1:55:55] this is just such an interesting thing

[1:55:57] you know she's gone out of her way to

[1:55:58] like really celebrate you and celebrate

[1:56:00] this film and what it is I think she she

[1:56:03] understands what it is that you're

[1:56:05] trying to communicate

[1:56:07] um and if you had to put that in your

[1:56:09] own words how would you articulate that

[1:56:12] >> what I'm trying to communicate

[1:56:14] >> yeah like what she like how she's

[1:56:16] translating

[1:56:18] her understanding of you and the movie

[1:56:22] into something that is helpful and of

[1:56:24] service to her audience because that's

[1:56:26] what she's a master at. Like she can

[1:56:28] take a story and then she can identify

[1:56:31] that kernel of truth or that important

[1:56:34] piece and she knows exactly what to say

[1:56:36] to her audience to make it impactful in

[1:56:38] a positive way for them. when I call

[1:56:41] her, she answers the phone like on the

[1:56:44] first ring and she's she's like, "I was

[1:56:46] just about to call you." It's it's one

[1:56:49] of those sort of

[1:56:50] >> connections that's feels divine in the

[1:56:53] universe.

[1:56:54] And I think

[1:56:59] she has a way of seeing the emotional

[1:57:01] arc of my life and my story and saying,

[1:57:04] "This is important and this is something

[1:57:07] you need to figure out how to share."

[1:57:10] And she has a unique way of encouraging

[1:57:13] me to do it. Certainly, as someone who I

[1:57:17] respect and if if Oprah tells me to do

[1:57:20] something, I'm going to do it. She's

[1:57:23] helped me sort of see the the path of

[1:57:25] how I can share that story and and tell

[1:57:29] it and and help

[1:57:32] people that have suffered loss or grief

[1:57:34] or

[1:57:37] are going through something really hard

[1:57:38] in their life and and see a way to to

[1:57:41] get through it and get to the other side

[1:57:44] of it. And I owe a tremendous amount of

[1:57:47] gratitude for her. And it's it's

[1:57:49] certainly, as you said, not just with

[1:57:51] me. That's what what she seems to do in

[1:57:53] her day-to-day existence. I think she

[1:57:55] can just walk into a room and she just

[1:57:59] finds that energy. She wants to sort of

[1:58:01] find the kernel and

[1:58:03] >> uplift it. And um she's going to help me

[1:58:07] by pushing me to tell my whole story and

[1:58:10] and write a book. And [snorts] uh I

[1:58:13] really appreciate her for that.

[1:58:15] >> It's very cool.

[1:58:17] There must be moments where, for

[1:58:19] example, you're, you know, at one of

[1:58:20] these film festivals

[1:58:23] seeing yourself on screen or you're, you

[1:58:25] know, hanging out with John Malovich or

[1:58:28] whatever and thinking like, how is this

[1:58:29] my life? Like there's a surreal

[1:58:32] aspect to it, but also

[1:58:36] this bittersweetness because of all of

[1:58:39] these things that happened to create

[1:58:42] these situations and the choices that

[1:58:44] you made to be able to be in this

[1:58:47] position. Like what is the interior

[1:58:49] experience of like celebrating the fact

[1:58:51] that like you've done these great things

[1:58:53] and you're carrying this powerful

[1:58:54] message that's helpful to other people.

[1:58:56] And now there's this amazing cinematic

[1:59:00] event happening around you while also

[1:59:03] recognizing that in many ways it's a

[1:59:06] function of the of of this tremendous

[1:59:10] loss that you've have endured.

[1:59:13] two edges of that that I think about.

[1:59:17] Um,

[1:59:19] I guess I'll put the bad one first and

[1:59:22] then we'll end with Oprah. You know,

[1:59:24] going to these festivals and and seeing

[1:59:26] the film for the first time and and

[1:59:28] having this tremendous reception from a

[1:59:30] crowd and so many people congratulating

[1:59:33] you, congratulations.

[1:59:36] And

[1:59:37] it's there's part of me that in a really

[1:59:42] tough way

[1:59:44] wants to say congratulations on losing

[1:59:47] Wyatt and Hannah and not having them

[1:59:48] here for all these years.

[1:59:51] Congratulations on all the things that I

[1:59:54] missed out on because

[1:59:56] they passed away. And it's hard for me.

[2:00:00] And then there's another side of it that

[2:00:02] is just really wonderful and really

[2:00:06] positive. And the reason I

[2:00:09] mentioned Oprah is

[2:00:12] I had a really tough weekend. The the

[2:00:14] weekend that I showed the film to Quinn

[2:00:17] and Graden and I came back from that and

[2:00:21] I thought a lot about where I was at in

[2:00:24] life and what I had been through. and uh

[2:00:29] I had been dating a amazing woman and I

[2:00:33] broke up with her for other extenduating

[2:00:36] circumstances and I was just in a really

[2:00:39] tough place on Monday morning and Oprah

[2:00:42] called me and she wanted to ask me to do

[2:00:45] something and she said she realized the

[2:00:48] situation I was in and she said I'm not

[2:00:50] going to ask you to do it and I was like

[2:00:52] look I'll do absolutely anything for you

[2:00:54] tell me what it is And uh through the

[2:00:58] course of our conversation, she she read

[2:01:02] something to me and she told me

[2:01:04] something that I I stood outside. I was

[2:01:07] in the Tetons in Jackson Hole and I

[2:01:10] looked up at the Tetons and I'm standing

[2:01:12] on this little deck and Oprah Winfreyy's

[2:01:16] in her just immaculate pros is is

[2:01:19] talking to me and I'm

[2:01:23] visually climbing like my hands are on

[2:01:26] the rock of the Tetons and I'm infused

[2:01:30] with Hillary's energy like I feel like

[2:01:32] I'm completely connected to her and

[2:01:36] she's not gone and she's not

[2:01:40] unaware of where we are or what we're

[2:01:43] doing. She's right here and she's with

[2:01:45] me and I'm carrying her through this

[2:01:48] journey, through the highs and lows of

[2:01:50] this whole

[2:01:52] circuit that we're on. And it was just a

[2:01:55] really tremendous moment that I tried to

[2:01:57] say, "Okay, stop.

[2:02:00] put this in the memory bank and make

[2:02:02] sure you can access it later and take

[2:02:04] note of this magical moment you're in,

[2:02:07] which I've had the opportunity to do a

[2:02:09] bunch of times recently. And

[2:02:12] I'm just I feel really fortunate for

[2:02:14] being in this position.

[2:02:17] With that

[2:02:19] awareness

[2:02:21] and in closing here,

[2:02:24] what is the message that the distilled

[2:02:27] crystallized message that you want to

[2:02:29] communicate to

[2:02:32] the person who is watching or listening

[2:02:34] to this who is in the midst of grief and

[2:02:38] loss and trying to make sense of how to

[2:02:40] move forward.

[2:02:44] I wrote this for for Oprah. She asked me

[2:02:47] to to write something down that she

[2:02:49] could give her guests at this parties

[2:02:51] that she threw for me. And I started

[2:02:54] with this idea of that for a really long

[2:02:59] time in my life, I've thought that

[2:03:02] losing someone meant you had to move on

[2:03:04] from them and you had to move forward

[2:03:06] without them. And that I've just come

[2:03:09] back to a place that I don't believe

[2:03:11] that anymore.

[2:03:14] I believe we can lose someone and decide

[2:03:18] to move forward with them. And

[2:03:22] if you just lost someone or something

[2:03:25] that's so near and dear to you, it's

[2:03:27] really hard to visualize that today. But

[2:03:29] if you just take the time to day by day

[2:03:33] put one foot in front of another,

[2:03:37] we get to a place where not talking

[2:03:40] about my children is not what I want to

[2:03:42] do. I want to talk about them. I want to

[2:03:44] bring them up and I want to carry them

[2:03:46] forward with me. And I want to celebrate

[2:03:48] them here and every day into the future.

[2:03:51] And I want to do the same with Katie and

[2:03:53] Hillary and all the other people I've

[2:03:55] lost. And

[2:03:57] I feel like their energy is what has

[2:04:01] helped me get to the top of the mountain

[2:04:04] and with and helped me be my best and

[2:04:07] helped me make the

[2:04:09] ultimate ski run for me on planet earth

[2:04:13] and in the best form that I could make

[2:04:15] it in. And I don't think I could have

[2:04:17] done it without them. And that energy

[2:04:20] that they are fueling me with has helped

[2:04:24] me be my best self. And I guess I'd like

[2:04:27] to say to the person who's lost

[2:04:29] something like

[2:04:32] accept that today is hard and celebrate

[2:04:36] the small wins that you have of just

[2:04:38] getting through today. And

[2:04:41] sometimes that's just taking a moment to

[2:04:43] drink a glass of water and look out the

[2:04:46] window and

[2:04:48] keep going. And eventually you can

[2:04:51] package that

[2:04:53] person or that thing up and carry it

[2:04:56] with you and

[2:04:59] take them to the seashore and have them

[2:05:02] look out through your eyes at that

[2:05:04] horizon instead of only feeling like

[2:05:07] they need to come be the ones to save

[2:05:09] you. They can actually come with you and

[2:05:13] they can watch the sunset with you.

[2:05:16] >> Thanks for coming and sharing with me

[2:05:18] today.

[2:05:19] Thanks for having me. It's a really

[2:05:21] powerful message.

[2:05:23] It's a beautiful film. It's a

[2:05:25] confronting film.

[2:05:27] There's going to be a lot of cultural

[2:05:29] conversations around the film. Uh so I'm

[2:05:33] so glad to be able to sit with you and

[2:05:36] get your perspective upfront

[2:05:39] before all those conversations kick off.

[2:05:42] And I think that you are, as I said at

[2:05:44] the outset and throughout this

[2:05:46] conversation, are in this really

[2:05:48] powerful position to be of service to

[2:05:52] people who are enduring hardship right

[2:05:55] now. I think Oprah saw that in you, and

[2:05:59] I would encourage you to stand up and

[2:06:01] take the reigns of that. Uh I think it's

[2:06:03] a real purposeful mission. It's a

[2:06:06] beautiful one.

[2:06:07] >> I I appreciate it. I look forward to it

[2:06:09] and I'll I'll do my best uh one day at a

[2:06:12] time to get through this journey of

[2:06:15] putting this big film out into the world

[2:06:18] and uh

[2:06:20] then taking all the packaging it all up

[2:06:23] and figuring out how to retell my story

[2:06:25] in a way that hopefully will will help

[2:06:28] those people that have been through

[2:06:29] hardship and loss. And the film is just

[2:06:32] another full spectrum, you know, kind of

[2:06:36] experience, another episode in your in

[2:06:38] your like, you know, wildlife, man. It's

[2:06:40] crazy.

[2:06:41] >> Yeah. [laughter]

[2:06:43] Um, and there will probably be many

[2:06:44] more. Uh, so come back and share with me

[2:06:48] uh what you learned along the way, my

[2:06:50] friend. I really appreciate your

[2:06:51] openness and the time you took to

[2:06:55] um share with me from the heart.

[2:06:57] >> I appreciate it. [music] Thank you for

[2:06:59] having me. Right on, Jim. Thanks. Peace.

Rich Roll
ArtistRich Roll

Vegan ultra-endurance athlete, podcaster and plant-based wellness advocate who went from rehab and a 50-pound weight gain to finishing the Ultraman World Championships and the EPIC…

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Grief-lossMountain-climbingPresence-awarenessSki-mountaineeringResilience

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The North Face rises nearly straight up from 20,000 feet to 29,000 feet at approximately 45 degrees steepness, steeper in places. Unlike the South Face, there are no fall zones—if you slip, you fall to the bottom. Morrison describes it as the most direct, unrelenting route on the mountain.
The formal expedition took six years, but Morrison spent fifty years building the skills, experience, and team necessary for this achievement. One friend observed that it took him fifty years to put this particular ascent and descent together.
Hilaree Nelson was Morrison's partner—a skilled ski mountaineer and adventurer. They planned to ski the North Face together. She died on Manaslu in 2023 while attempting another ski descent. Morrison completed the North Face descent partly as a way of honoring their shared vision and continuing the life they were building together.
Morrison describes grief not as something to 'move on' from, but as bringing the people you love with you. His philosophy is that after suffering devastating loss, you can choose to continue living fully and completely, honoring the people you lost by moving forward in ways you imagined together.
The team was crucial. Morrison describes it as operating like a military campaign, with meteorologists, camp-setters, film crew, and logistical support all coordinated around the ascent and descent. After two failed attempts, he rebuilt what he calls the 'dream team,' and that specific assembly made the success possible.
Morrison views fear as information rather than an obstacle. On the North Face, fear signals danger and sharpens decision-making. The work is to channel fear into focus, not eliminate it—and to eliminate panic instead, which turns signal into noise.
Morrison's wife and children were killed in a plane crash in 2011. Their death was a turning point in his life, after which he chose to continue living fully and completely, understanding that you can continue after the worst happens.

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