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Inspiration

Fascia Isn't Connective Tissue: Safety in Yoga Teaching

Christine Wushke
Christine Wushke
Jan 13, 2022
読了 約9分

出典:Christine Wushke

視聴 · 7

"We are live." That is how the recording begins, with two teachers settling into a conversation about the body. Christine Wushke, a yoga teacher, says she is about to launch her 200-hour teacher training, with an intake in January or February and a flexible start. She has invited her colleague Joanne Avison, a structural integrator, to open the program by introducing trainees to fascia as a whole-body system. What follows, in the January 2022 video, is less a lecture than a working argument: that fascia is not a material you can scrape out of the way to see the "real" anatomy, that the body is understood better as one continuous fabric than as a set of parts, and that a yoga room only works when the people in it feel safe enough to be themselves. The video is about a 36-minute conversation, and its ideas hold up well beyond that single session.

読む · 6セクション

Why does the way we learn anatomy matter for yoga students?

The conversation starts with a gap that most yoga teachers will recognize. We learn anatomy as a set of facts. We learn the names of muscles and bones, which attach where, which joints they move. We learn asana names, often in Sanskrit, and we have to hold them in the intellectual domain. Then we step onto the mat, and something else happens. Avison draws the contrast sharply at about the two-minute mark: practice is "experience," and "we leave our minds outside and come in and bring our bodies in," along with our hearts, our families, and whatever else we carry.

That distinction is the frame for everything that follows. If the body in a yoga class is experienced rather than memorized, then the teacher's job is partly to shape the conditions for that experience. Avison and Wushke both return to safety as the precondition. The environment a teacher creates, they argue, has to feel safe, whole, and respectful before students can bring their full selves into the room. In the conversation, that feeling is described almost as a kind of grace: a sense of beingness that arrives with the rest of the practice, and that the teacher has to facilitate in advance.

For a teacher, the practical takeaway is that technical knowledge is necessary but not sufficient. Knowing where the psoas attaches does not tell you how a nervous student will respond to a hands-on adjustment on the day she walked in after a hard week. The pair's insistence on safety is a reminder that somatic awareness, the lived sense of one's own body, is part of what a teacher is responsible for.

What is fascia, if it is not just connective tissue?

Around the six-minute mark, Wushke interrupts to name a discomfort she has with a standard answer. When she teaches fascia, students usually ask what it is, and the stock reply is that it is connective tissue. She says she dislikes that phrase because it "immediately paints the picture that I am separate pieces and parts," with a tissue that stitches those parts together. What she would rather describe is "one thing that has multiple folds and turns and spaces," which then individualizes and specializes into the structures we name separately.

This is the heart of the video's argument. The word "connective" implies two things that already exist, muscle and bone, joined by a third. The model Avison and Wushke propose runs the other way. Fascia is the original fabric, and muscle, bone, and other specialized tissues differentiate out of it. Avison grounds this in embryology, describing the body as beginning as a form whose fabric is essentially fascia, and then differentiating into its properties and natures.

To make this concrete, Avison uses a building analogy at around the eight-minute mark. Picture a house made of bricks and cement. If you remove the cement, you assume the house falls apart, and the bricks are the components. But she asks the listener to go one level further down. Sand is one of the original building materials of the house. Treated one way it becomes cement, mixed with clay it becomes brick, treated differently again it becomes glass. The house is an arrangement of materials that all come from earth. Fascia, in her picture, is the earth-level material beneath the bricks, not the mortar between them.

The fascia is the unifying fabric of the form that plays a part in every one of those things.

— Joanne Avison, in the January 2022 conversation with Christine Wushke (approx. 6:00 to 8:00 on the video)

Note the caution in that framing. The analogy is not a claim about every chemical detail. It is a claim about level of description: that you cannot understand how a house holds together by looking only at its bricks, and that the structures we label as separate tissues share a common material history.

Why does dissection make fascia disappear?

One of the sharpest moments in the conversation is an anecdote about a course. Wushke says a participant in her own class came back from an anatomy course in which a professor demonstrated movement by dissecting muscles from bones. When the student asked about fascia, the professor replied that fascia is "what we scrape out of the way in order to see what we need to understand about the locomotor system." The participant had, in effect, been told that the material binding everything together is the thing you remove to get to the real anatomy.

Avison responds that the room is under a kind of spell, and that the spell is collective. The idea that connective tissue can be removed and leave the components of everything else behind is, in her framing, a myth. Dissection is a legitimate method, but it has a built-in blind spot. When you take the tissue out to reveal the parts, you are looking at the parts you already expected to find. The continuity that makes the body move as a whole is precisely what the method discards.

The pair do not treat the professor as a villain. Wushke is explicit that she does not want to make him wrong. The point is that the course's framing is a starting assumption, and the whole effort of their training is to examine that assumption in a way students can feel rather than only memorize.

What happens when the tissue is treated as a whole?

The conversation shifts from definitions to implications around the eleven-minute mark. If fascia is a continuous web rather than a packing material, then a movement in one part of the body is also a movement in the rest. Avison describes an emerging "web of recognition" among practitioners, therapists, researchers, and scientists internationally, one that sees the fascial system of the human body as woven from a common basic material. She also suggests that natural principles, including how plants and humans are organized, are "so closely connected and so economically designed" that the parallels are striking.

Here the conversation reaches the terms that the video description highlights: biotensegrity and trauma awareness. The description says Avison and Wushke discuss both, and the threads of safety and wholeness that run through the early part of the talk are the bridge. A teacher who sees the body as a continuous, responsive fabric is also a teacher who has to think about how that fabric holds memories of stress, injury, and protection. Trauma awareness in this context is not a separate specialty. It is part of asking how people actually experience being touched, moved, and held in a practice.

That is why the safety theme keeps returning. A yoga class that respects the whole body, rather than correcting its parts, is one where students are less likely to be startled into holding on. The conversation's emphasis on sensitivity, on listening, and on the intelligence of the body points toward a teaching style built around invitation rather than instruction alone.

What should a new teacher take from this conversation?

For teachers entering a training program, the conversation offers three practical ideas. The first is to hold anatomy as a living map rather than a list of names, so that when a student describes a sensation, you can ask where it moves rather than only where it is. The second is to notice the framing you use when students ask what fascia is. Calling it connective tissue is a shorthand that quietly reinforces a parts-based model of the body. Describing it as one fabric that differentiates into many forms invites a different kind of attention. The third is to treat safety as the first asana. Avison and Wushke both say that a feeling of safety, wholeness, and respectful relationship has to be established in advance, before the work of posture, breath, or movement can really begin.

None of this requires abandoning the anatomy you learned. The pair are clear that they are not arguing against muscles, bones, or the locomotor system. They are arguing that these are the visible, named surface of a continuous material, and that a teacher who understands the continuity will teach differently.

Where to go from here

The full conversation runs about 35 minutes and is worth watching in its entirety, especially for the parts where the two teachers test their own language against each other. If you are new to fascia, start with the house-and-sand analogy and the dissection anecdote, since they capture the central shift in perspective. If you are a teacher, consider how your own opening explanation of fascia sounds to a student who has never heard the word, and whether "connective tissue" is doing more work than you intend. The deeper question the conversation leaves open is practical: how does a teacher create the sense of safety that Avison calls an act of grace, and how do we notice when a body in the room is telling us it does not yet feel held?

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Transcript

[0:01] we are live

[0:04] hello joanne i just have to start by

[0:06] saying i love you

[0:07] and i love you are like the most amazing

[0:10] fashion teacher i know

[0:12] so i'm kicking off my 200 hour teacher

[0:15] training program this weekend

[0:16] it uh people can jump in either january

[0:19] or february it's a bit of a flex

[0:21] start type of situation but you are

[0:24] coming in

[0:25] to introduce the 200-hour

[0:29] teacher trainees to the concept of

[0:31] fascia

[0:32] as a whole body system and i'm so

[0:35] excited to have you be the one to teach

[0:38] us the introduction to fascia the basics

[0:40] of fascia

[0:41] so we will talk about that for a bit

[0:45] why is that important well

[0:48] i would listen you and i could perhaps

[0:49] sit and talk about this for about a year

[0:52] um i'm i love your work too i mean

[0:55] like you we're both structural

[0:57] integrators we're both fascinated yoga

[0:59] teachers we're both very dedicated

[1:01] to an holistic approach to body mind and

[1:04] being

[1:05] absolutely and when we say being we go

[1:07] on to the being

[1:08] in the body the us that animates this

[1:12] stuff and as you know um

[1:16] you know it's it's been so great having

[1:17] you in you know and dundee and john

[1:19] sharky's

[1:20] uh dissections where we've

[1:23] come from this position not how can we

[1:27] break the body down

[1:28] and divide it into its individual

[1:31] bits nor even put them together as

[1:36] bands but how does it actually work

[1:39] as a whole yeah because as we both know

[1:42] when your yoga student comes into the

[1:45] classroom

[1:46] you can have learned everything you know

[1:48] about yoga and everything you know about

[1:50] anatomy and everything you know about

[1:52] life and so on and

[1:55] what actually takes place in the room

[1:59] is something other than that or as well

[2:02] as that

[2:03] or inclusive of that and there is

[2:05] something

[2:06] absolutely crucial in a yoga teaching

[2:09] context

[2:11] of making that environment safe

[2:14] or feeling safe in that environment as

[2:17] the teacher

[2:19] and instantly facilitating

[2:23] that sense of safety and that sense of

[2:26] wholeness and that sense of respectful

[2:30] interactive intercommunicating

[2:33] relationship

[2:35] that allows people to be present to be

[2:39] themselves the way they are i i know you

[2:41] agree with me i think that's an act of

[2:43] grace

[2:44] yes and i think we have to facilitate

[2:47] that in advance

[2:49] now the way we're usually trained

[2:52] that is largely considered to be very

[2:54] separate from anatomy

[2:56] here's the thing for me we learn

[2:59] anatomy in the intellectual domain

[3:03] we learn the names of the asana and the

[3:05] postures in the intellectual domain and

[3:07] if we learn them in sanskrit we have to

[3:09] remember them in the intellectual domain

[3:11] for sure when we are animating and

[3:15] practicing and experiencing and doing

[3:17] yoga

[3:19] we're in a completely different

[3:22] experience or atmosphere or time zone

[3:25] because we have to be present

[3:27] yeah it's experience we leave our minds

[3:29] outside and come in and bring our bodies

[3:31] in you know with our hearts

[3:33] with our kids or families or whatever

[3:35] the whole stick

[3:37] comes together and then we have

[3:40] that other thing that invisible

[3:45] sense of grace of beingness

[3:49] that comes with the whole show

[3:53] totally and for me the fascia

[3:57] is the unifying fabric of the form

[4:00] that plays a part in every one of those

[4:03] things

[4:04] absolutely and so when we first

[4:07] introduce it

[4:09] the first thing that happens you know

[4:11] this you've we've done how many courses

[4:13] now the first thing that happens

[4:15] is people start from the category of

[4:18] anatomical structures

[4:20] right so we start there and we look at

[4:22] the muscles and the bones because that's

[4:24] what's moving the

[4:25] movement apparatus the locomotor system

[4:28] totally where is it

[4:30] well then

[4:34] we get into what i call the domain of

[4:37] into intellectual

[4:41] factions those who believe those who

[4:43] don't believe

[4:45] and i just had one of my class

[4:46] participants telling me about a course

[4:48] they've just done

[4:49] where a professor of anatomy was telling

[4:52] them how they do categoric

[4:53] dissection to demonstrate movement

[4:56] through muscles attached to bones and of

[4:59] course

[5:00] bless her heart this participant had

[5:02] been in my course

[5:04] and she said what about the fascia and

[5:06] this professor said no no that's what we

[5:07] scrape out of the way

[5:09] in order to see what we need to

[5:11] understand about the local motor system

[5:13] yeah yeah exactly let's not make the

[5:15] professor wrong

[5:16] let's just say that what we're learning

[5:19] and we'll do this in the course

[5:20] is the history yeah

[5:23] that put off under a magic spell and it

[5:26] is a spell christine it's a spell

[5:28] yeah but we are collectively under

[5:31] the influence of that

[5:34] the removed tissue

[5:38] cogently explains

[5:44] through being removed how we move

[5:48] no no no sorry okay i have to jump in

[5:51] and say one little thing

[5:52] because i because you know often when i

[5:56] start with fascia

[5:57] it's like you know the question will be

[5:59] what is fascia

[6:00] and the answer is always it's connective

[6:02] tissue

[6:05] and i i kind of in a way don't like

[6:08] calling fascia connective tissue because

[6:12] because to me immediately it paints the

[6:15] picture that

[6:16] i am separate pieces and parts and

[6:18] here's a tissue that's going to stitch

[6:19] me together

[6:21] and what i'd rather paint is this idea

[6:23] that there's

[6:24] one thing that has multiple folds and

[6:28] turns

[6:29] and and spaces

[6:32] and but but it's all one thing that then

[6:36] individualizes and specializes out of

[6:39] that one thing

[6:40] so i don't know what let's start with

[6:43] like what is fascia

[6:46] fascia pascha is connective tissue but

[6:49] the

[6:49] thing that we start to bring in and

[6:51] we'll do this in the course we'll go

[6:53] with this very clearly so people are

[6:56] unequivocally clear about the the spell

[7:00] that we're all under this collective

[7:02] bell that this

[7:03] connecting tissue can be removed

[7:07] and leave us with the components of

[7:09] everything else because that's a myth as

[7:11] well

[7:11] yeah for sure let's imagine we had a

[7:14] house

[7:15] and we we can do this now in in our

[7:17] preparation bear in mind that

[7:19] you know the course takes the time it

[7:21] takes because it takes that time

[7:23] um i know i'm stating the obvious but

[7:25] it's a cohen in its own way

[7:27] if you had a house imagine you've got a

[7:28] house in front of you and it's built of

[7:30] bricks and cement

[7:33] you're almost saying well if i take the

[7:35] cement away i know the house will fall

[7:37] apart don't worry about that

[7:38] but the bricks are the components

[7:41] well fascia takes us one level below

[7:44] that

[7:44] in the sense of one of the original

[7:47] building materials of the whole house is

[7:49] sand

[7:51] and sand is treated a particular way to

[7:53] make cement it's treated a particular

[7:55] way to make it into bricks it's

[7:57] mixed with clay to make brick it's mixed

[8:00] with something else to make cement

[8:02] it's treated differently to make glass

[8:07] but sand stroke other components of

[8:10] earth

[8:11] beautiful other basic building materials

[8:14] from which we can man-make

[8:18] various things that we organize in a

[8:21] structure called a house in all sorts of

[8:23] ways

[8:24] now let's go back to fascia as an

[8:27] embryo we begin

[8:30] as a structure there's never nothing

[8:35] that you know we start as a conceptus

[8:38] and that fabric of that form is

[8:41] essentially fascia

[8:43] and then we start looking at its

[8:45] properties its characteristics its

[8:47] natures

[8:48] and what we're actually doing is getting

[8:50] underneath

[8:51] our school knowledge our

[8:54] you know i don't know what you have in

[8:56] the us but we have something called key

[8:57] stage learning

[8:58] and we have three four five six seven

[9:00] and so on up to

[9:01] grade eight nine somewhere like that you

[9:03] go to secondary school i don't know how

[9:05] it works in the states but it's very

[9:06] similar i'm sure

[9:07] and we all learn how muscles are

[9:09] attached to bones

[9:11] and they move the joints in certain ways

[9:13] and my mumma

[9:16] and it's not that we're coming opposite

[9:19] that with a new argument

[9:22] it's that we're saying yeah that that's

[9:24] true that all happens

[9:26] and what connects that and what

[9:29] disconnects that and what distinguishes

[9:32] that and what allows that to become

[9:35] is a precursor

[9:38] to muscle and a precursor to bone and a

[9:42] precursor to spatialization and

[9:45] specialization

[9:46] and what's starting to happen partly

[9:49] through the research and

[9:50] partly through the combined

[9:55] web being woven internationally by

[9:59] practitioners therapists researchers and

[10:02] scientists

[10:03] all around the world and it's it's great

[10:05] big huge

[10:06] as you know um is this

[10:10] web of recognition that

[10:14] the fascist of the human body is

[10:16] cellulose to a plant

[10:18] and all flowers and trees are made of

[10:20] the same basic material and

[10:21] we are all made of the same basic

[10:23] material and

[10:25] we're not quite the same as fauna and

[10:27] flora

[10:28] but the nature's principles

[10:32] are so closely connected and so

[10:35] economically

[10:36] designed that it's almost as if we can

[10:40] afford to rest

[10:42] a little in the man-made construct of

[10:46] constructing

[10:48] how we move we're actually being asked

[10:51] to dismantle that

[10:53] and restore our original faith in

[10:56] ourselves

[10:56] as beings before the history that took

[10:59] place that

[11:00] that separates us from that origin

[11:03] and that's what we start off with on on

[11:05] next sunday i'm so excited i can't wait

[11:07] because it's one of my favorite bits

[11:08] because leonardo da vinci's in it

[11:10] and um it's just the history

[11:13] that was us under this spell right i

[11:16] mean we don't even know who

[11:18] casters are yeah yeah yeah so the so the

[11:20] paradigm we're in now or the model

[11:23] we are i mean my son's just starting his

[11:27] massage therapy

[11:28] course in university right now right so

[11:30] the model that we have now

[11:33] human anatomy human physiology

[11:34] kinesiology

[11:36] is what you're going to take us through

[11:39] of

[11:39] how this model came to be

[11:42] in removing this tissue in order to

[11:45] reveal these pieces and parts and

[11:47] then go back and try to piece it all

[11:49] together to figure out how it works

[11:52] and you've got it i mean the whole thing

[11:56] christine we've worked together for ages

[11:57] and you know me

[11:58] i don't teach bits yeah the logic that

[12:02] means whatever bits you come across

[12:04] you can give comics too well and it's

[12:06] not to say that bits aren't important

[12:08] like the bits are hugely important it's

[12:10] just it's just this this 180 degree

[12:12] flip right like it's it it's seeing

[12:15] the continuity first or seeing the

[12:18] seamlessness or the oneness

[12:20] first and then seeing the folds and

[12:23] turns and specializations and

[12:24] individualization

[12:26] second then those bits and pieces and

[12:29] parts

[12:30] actually make more sense because they're

[12:32] out of

[12:33] the continuity rather than removed from

[12:36] it

[12:37] exactly and and we're not saying we're

[12:39] not making the parts from this is the

[12:40] thing

[12:41] i think we've been not making the parts

[12:42] wrong yeah we're not making the parts

[12:44] wrong

[12:45] we're making the significance of what

[12:48] joins those parts

[12:50] much harder yeah we're changing the

[12:52] perspective

[12:53] we're changing the proportional ratios

[12:56] with which we bestow

[12:57] what i call by emotional integrity or by

[12:59] emotional intelligence

[13:02] and this is really crucial because as a

[13:03] yoga teacher you are basically saying

[13:06] let's be frank yeah how can we have you

[13:08] feel better and move better that's what

[13:10] we're there for that's what we're doing

[13:11] that's what the yoga teacher is all

[13:12] about yeah you're not

[13:14] bringing enlightenment to the world and

[13:16] that might be a byproduct that's great

[13:17] but personally i don't want that

[13:19] responsibility i

[13:20] i think enlightenment is very personal

[13:21] journey i

[13:23] am assisting the people in my classroom

[13:25] to hopefully feel better

[13:27] and very definitely move better yeah

[13:29] whatever that is for them

[13:30] now i can't move as well as some of the

[13:32] people i teach i'm not saying it's about

[13:34] being as good as me

[13:36] what i'm saying is can we find a logic

[13:40] from which we can self-regulate

[13:44] self-organize and interact in our

[13:47] classrooms yeah such that we can help

[13:49] our students move better how can we do

[13:51] that safely and one of the ways of doing

[13:53] that safely

[13:55] is do your homework learn the parts but

[13:57] recognize the context in which those

[13:59] parts arise

[14:00] yeah and you know that by the end of

[14:03] this course what

[14:04] what we hope is that and i'm talking

[14:06] about the whole course

[14:07] yeah the whole 500 hours yeah the whole

[14:09] 500 hours is at the end of that 500

[14:11] hours people can look back

[14:14] and recognize the incremental stages

[14:16] they've made

[14:18] towards the difference by that time

[14:20] they've practiced and know they are

[14:22] making to the people they're working

[14:23] with

[14:23] yeah as well as themselves yeah and it's

[14:26] a self-regulating self-perpetuating web

[14:29] feedback hello what's this

[14:32] self-perpetuating weather feedback

[14:35] and it's you know it's it's it's so um i

[14:38] just want to give a really practical

[14:39] example too because

[14:40] when when i came to fascia it was

[14:44] it was a result of googling my symptoms

[14:48] and i couldn't walk i couldn't sit i

[14:51] couldn't move

[14:52] when i found fascia so i realized

[14:56] early on in my chronic pain journey

[14:59] that the fascia was part of my solution

[15:01] i just didn't understand why yet

[15:04] but fast forward five years and i

[15:07] am you know summiting mountains

[15:11] and i am i'm moving i'm sitting

[15:14] i'm all those things have been brought

[15:17] back to functional

[15:19] integrity through just studying fascia

[15:22] learning how to move learning micro

[15:24] movements learning how to collaborate

[15:26] with my nervous system

[15:28] learning how to be in healthy

[15:30] relationship with my body

[15:31] and all these things kind of happen as

[15:33] you go down this rabbit hole of the

[15:35] fascia

[15:36] paradigm you start to see the you start

[15:39] to see in oneness and wholeness and

[15:41] continuity and

[15:42] you know and everything is is about

[15:44] relationship

[15:45] and that's where it brought me so it's

[15:48] and other people

[15:49] will say the same who've taken the

[15:51] program that they were in chronic pain

[15:53] and now they're not so how does that

[15:55] happen it's this you know it's sometimes

[15:57] it's hard to bring it down to the

[15:59] practical

[16:00] levels but it really does inform the

[16:03] body

[16:04] how to move in a way that's

[16:07] that's appropriate for the individual

[16:12] for their way and recognize fascia types

[16:16] we recognize facial rules or laws

[16:20] of how the matrix works that

[16:24] evolve our previous thinking so we're

[16:27] not

[16:28] we're not saying well we are saying some

[16:30] things are wrong that's not true

[16:31] i mean like the idea that

[16:32] biomechanically we are a system of

[16:34] leaders

[16:36] that's just wrong yeah you like the tree

[16:38] is that believers

[16:40] it's not a system of believers no and

[16:43] and

[16:44] there are no levers in nonlinear

[16:45] biologic forms we know that but we get

[16:47] to that after a

[16:48] 100 hours or so and it's not a popular

[16:51] vote

[16:52] but it is a spell yeah because that

[16:55] literally the definition of a lever and

[16:57] the definition of a moving being

[16:58] are such that there can be no levers in

[17:01] non-linear biologic forms and by the

[17:02] fact that we're living

[17:03] we're non-linear we're just non-linear

[17:06] we abide by non-linear rules

[17:08] yeah and so that's a thing that's a

[17:11] great big huge thing

[17:12] and it's it's um it's interesting when

[17:15] you get down to something so

[17:17] physical and obvious and you've seen me

[17:19] on facebook arguing with people going

[17:22] prove it

[17:25] negative first of all science isn't

[17:27] about proof it's about questions

[17:29] there's a lot of resistance to it though

[17:31] there's a lot of resistance and science

[17:33] is about disproving and

[17:34] dr levin bless his heart has spent the

[17:36] last 40 years prove

[17:38] just trying to disprove biogen secretary

[17:40] another thing i know we haven't got to

[17:41] that yet

[17:41] but with fascia as far as bash is

[17:43] concerned the idea that all

[17:45] fascia does is connect the muscles to

[17:47] the bones so that they can move as

[17:48] levers

[17:49] is nonsense that's a spell and and i

[17:52] have to jump in and say

[17:53] you you this this piece of data may be

[17:55] wrong so correct me but

[17:56] um dr levin is in his 80's yes 87 or 8.

[18:00] yeah and is he still doing the one arm

[18:02] push-ups

[18:03] he's still doing one-on-push-ups last

[18:04] but not least i mean his whole

[18:06] embodiment

[18:08] is a living as an orthopedic surgeon he

[18:12] didn't get to pontificate about this

[18:13] stuff he got to do it

[18:15] yeah and that doesn't mean he you know

[18:17] you can't prove by one that's not it i

[18:19] mean we're talking about an

[18:20] international thing with top surgeons

[18:23] and researchers and scientists you know

[18:25] there's

[18:25] there's people gold research gold

[18:27] standard research

[18:29] involved in this you know i'm not

[18:31] sitting here making claims i just happen

[18:32] to be one of the storytellers who

[18:33] understands it and gets to

[18:35] um share it which is my passion yeah and

[18:38] i mean yeah the making claims thing i

[18:40] think

[18:40] you know that the the in in my program i

[18:42] do provide research i do provide papers

[18:45] because we are because we are going to

[18:46] go to our students and make claims so

[18:48] it's nice to have those

[18:49] papers on your laptop to say well here's

[18:51] here's a little bit of research on this

[18:53] and there's so much more that we don't

[18:55] know yet

[18:56] but aside from that part of it just

[18:59] experientially

[19:01] learning how to move in a way that's

[19:03] going to enhance

[19:05] whatever it is that you're already doing

[19:08] so for me it's enhanced

[19:09] the ability to climb mountains because

[19:12] i'm

[19:12] able to use my body as this whole

[19:15] system instead of thinking of isolating

[19:19] parts

[19:21] there's something that happens when you

[19:23] understand about insecurity and and

[19:26] moving from that from that attitude

[19:30] from that approach it has just you know

[19:33] it's a game changer

[19:34] for athletes and and even just not even

[19:37] for athletes but just for people that

[19:39] that's it what's so important about what

[19:42] you just said christine and it really is

[19:44] it's very important is that what it has

[19:47] what let me try again sorry

[19:51] what it takes for you to have what's

[19:53] needed for you to climb a mountain

[19:55] is very different to what it would take

[19:57] for me

[19:59] exactly so my thing was when i gave

[20:01] birth to my son i couldn't

[20:02] i couldn't lift the baby carrier you

[20:04] know that you'd lift to put in the car

[20:06] so that you could safely travel with

[20:08] them i couldn't lift it

[20:09] and i post parts and what i

[20:13] i couldn't even spell it and i wasn't a

[20:16] yoga teacher anything this is way back

[20:18] and i was i went to a physio and they

[20:21] put me

[20:22] on basically a rack they wrapped my hips

[20:24] with a band and wrapped my ribs with a

[20:26] band and then opened the table i was on

[20:28] to stretch

[20:29] my spine and i don't think i've ever

[20:31] been in such unholy pain in my entire

[20:33] life

[20:34] yeah yeah and then i thought hang on a

[20:35] second this is this is they used to hung

[20:37] drawn quarter people doing this

[20:40] what the hell is going on here

[20:43] and i say this often it was the grits

[20:46] that

[20:47] stuck in the throat of this oyster to

[20:49] turn into a pearl because

[20:50] i then went in search of a way

[20:54] of physically making this work so that i

[20:57] could lift things and

[20:58] that little baby is was 26 last week

[21:02] it's been my life's work since then

[21:05] is finding out what it takes for me

[21:09] to be able to lift something without

[21:11] hurting

[21:12] day to day and what it would take for me

[21:15] to climb

[21:16] that summit with you i'd love to my god

[21:19] next time i'm in canada i'm

[21:20] so in for that we're just we're taking

[21:23] you somewhere

[21:25] and but my practice will look very

[21:27] different to yours

[21:28] yeah for sure so what i'm saying that

[21:32] for

[21:32] is that learning about fashion and

[21:34] biotin secretive is not learning a set

[21:36] of rules that we then apply to everybody

[21:38] because we can

[21:39] yeah it is literally learning the

[21:42] language of

[21:43] fashion logical wisdom in the body yes

[21:46] that you can teach it to the people

[21:48] you're teaching

[21:49] yeah such that they can be awake to it

[21:52] because they're listening to their own

[21:53] instinct

[21:54] and that makes something that takes

[21:56] something more than information

[21:58] and it actually takes something more

[22:00] than performance it

[22:02] takes transformation yeah know how you

[22:05] work that's why we work together it's

[22:06] because what we're interested in

[22:08] is creating the facility in which people

[22:10] can transform themselves

[22:12] rather than giving them the information

[22:15] to go away and do what we told them to

[22:17] because that doesn't work yeah yeah it's

[22:19] really a perspective shift in the way

[22:21] that we approach movement

[22:24] and and so in that because we can't

[22:26] really give out rules because

[22:28] the this particular approach is an

[22:30] inside out approach

[22:31] the approach is we're giving students

[22:33] the ability to go inside their body

[22:35] and find their rules their set of rules

[22:38] that are appropriate for their body

[22:40] so in a way a little bit harder to teach

[22:42] but it's hard to teach but it's and it's

[22:44] not arbitrary

[22:45] i was having this discussion with john

[22:47] sharkey the other day because we were

[22:48] talking about how

[22:50] you know in a lot of the work about the

[22:51] fascia uh we talk about the fascia

[22:54] not only as being all pervasive in the

[22:57] body but being the largest sensory organ

[22:59] of the body which some people

[23:00] do to be complete nonsense but there's a

[23:02] lot of research that shows that it's

[23:04] you know serious research and um

[23:08] if the body is a sensory organ then it

[23:10] changes the way we see the nervous

[23:12] system if the fascia is a sensory organ

[23:14] it changes the way

[23:15] we see the nervous system but this is

[23:17] where i'm saying it's not arbitrary

[23:18] this is not about oh my fascia feels oh

[23:21] and it might be different from yours but

[23:22] i'm doing it anyway no no no no

[23:24] the body has systems the body has

[23:26] hierarchies the body has appropriate

[23:29] ways and what we teach people how to do

[23:32] is

[23:32] recognize what i call the archetypal

[23:35] movement signature

[23:37] that someone brings to the table now

[23:41] what i was saying with john you know if

[23:42] you

[23:44] sever the subcutaneous nerve the biceps

[23:46] isn't going to work

[23:48] right you can do what you like you know

[23:50] robert schneider's written articles

[23:51] saying

[23:52] that the the nervous system is not like

[23:54] a telephone cable wiring system

[23:56] no it may not be it may be something

[23:59] much more than that

[24:00] but it doesn't throw out the baby with

[24:02] the bath water by saying that fascia is

[24:04] the largest sensory organ of the body

[24:06] what it does

[24:06] is it changes how

[24:10] we describe and the language that we use

[24:13] to discuss the um

[24:17] structure of the nervous system or the

[24:19] effects of the nervous system

[24:21] and because you're so engaged in how

[24:24] we integrate and assist clients

[24:28] in working safely and and

[24:31] your work integrates with trauma yeah

[24:34] work

[24:35] this becomes really important because

[24:37] what it gives us is a completely

[24:38] different perspective on sensitivity

[24:41] yes oh my gosh yes and that's profound

[24:44] because in that moment

[24:46] you discover that the anatomy that you

[24:49] did

[24:49] separately is you know what on the yoga

[24:51] teach change that's 10

[24:53] well just get that out of the way learn

[24:54] the names of everything and get on with

[24:55] it

[24:56] okay here's here's the analogy it gives

[24:59] you the names of the parts

[25:01] but it doesn't tell you how they work

[25:04] and

[25:04] if these are watch parts you're no

[25:06] nearer telling the time

[25:08] right right right and in yoga we want

[25:12] all of that we want to know the names of

[25:13] the posters we want to be able to do the

[25:14] process we want to know the purpose of

[25:16] the postures but then we also want to

[25:17] just sit there and experience

[25:20] breathing from the physical body to

[25:22] enter what yoga calls the

[25:24] the energetic body or the vital energy

[25:26] body or the pranic body or the subtle

[25:28] body or whatever name

[25:30] you give whichever level how do we do it

[25:33] we do that through the breath well how

[25:34] does the breath work

[25:35] what's the common denominator to all of

[25:37] that

[25:38] and i think without going into any more

[25:41] detail that's the keystone to what we're

[25:44] saying the common denominator and what i

[25:45] love is

[25:47] it brings the anatomy and the philosophy

[25:50] and the lifestyle and the ethics and the

[25:52] practicum and the techniques

[25:55] together in a web and that is the key to

[25:59] for me in the value of of this work and

[26:03] i've been teaching it for a long time

[26:05] now and i

[26:07] i see this over and over again is people

[26:09] literally

[26:10] exhaling that they haven't got to learn

[26:12] a thousand separate names

[26:14] and then go out there into a wilderness

[26:16] and work out how to put those parts

[26:18] together

[26:18] they learn the wholeness and the why of

[26:21] that wholeness and the logic of that

[26:23] wholeness and then it can be expressed

[26:25] in any of the parts

[26:27] yeah this is so huge and and what you

[26:29] said a few minutes ago about sensitivity

[26:31] is

[26:32] it this is just so it's so huge

[26:35] because when when we're in a harsh

[26:39] environment and we're trying to pick up

[26:43] a instrument that's this sensitive

[26:46] it becomes very difficult to hear it

[26:48] with all that noise

[26:49] but when we can create an environment

[26:51] that is safe

[26:53] we we can get quiet enough

[26:56] to to really focus on this instrument

[27:00] that is like you talk about the um the

[27:03] finely tuned

[27:04] instrument that that we can hear

[27:07] through movement but that environment of

[27:09] safety

[27:10] is so relevant otherwise we'll just

[27:12] protect ourselves

[27:14] so tapping into something sensitive i

[27:16] think it's just

[27:18] it's so important to do that with that

[27:20] trauma informed

[27:21] that creating that environment of safety

[27:23] first

[27:25] not sure if that makes sense no it makes

[27:28] sense but it's it's got to

[27:29] i think it it works best when it's

[27:32] physically recognized

[27:34] emotionally recognized and it's in the

[27:36] atmosphere

[27:37] so the body the mind and the being are

[27:39] all congruent so it doesn't become

[27:41] separate things so you're learning your

[27:44] anatomy to make sense of the safety that

[27:46] you're creating for the nervous system

[27:48] of the being that's in the room

[27:49] right yeah we can learn polyvagal theory

[27:52] and trauma theory and have a sense of

[27:54] how all of that

[27:54] works but it's more about the experience

[27:57] at the end of the day

[27:58] of being able to drop in and what has

[28:02] father to do with the vagus nerve

[28:03] loads so it's like you know what i'm

[28:06] saying we weave

[28:07] quite but that doesn't mean that it's a

[28:09] complex picture

[28:11] i think um the magic is staying

[28:14] respectful that you're learning new

[28:16] basics

[28:17] i i'm very respectful my basics are

[28:19] expanding every day

[28:21] and it's that we

[28:24] we take those basics and then we feel

[28:26] safe asking our questions and then we

[28:28] can manage our curiosity and i think

[28:30] that's the most precious gift of any

[28:32] yoga class is that each day we bring

[28:34] ourselves new to the mat

[28:36] and ask how how are you ask yourself how

[28:39] are you

[28:40] be the witness which is what of course

[28:41] we're learning in yoga is to witness and

[28:43] observe

[28:44] how am i today and you could say how is

[28:47] my fascial matrix or how is my

[28:49] biotensegril

[28:51] intelligence or how is my biceps

[28:54] you could you know i mean you can see it

[28:56] through whatever

[28:57] window or lens you want to see it

[28:59] through but

[29:01] what the fascia somehow does for me it's

[29:03] very much

[29:04] an interface

[29:07] of what we call the

[29:11] spiritual and energetic invisible aspect

[29:13] of animation

[29:15] and the form that we animate to express

[29:18] that

[29:19] yeah i mean even on the symbolic level

[29:21] it's like

[29:22] it's it's like the the non-dual tissue

[29:24] of the body

[29:25] so even just like when we go into

[29:28] spirituality and we go into

[29:30] what it's like to abide in the non-dual

[29:32] state and then we look at

[29:34] fascia as like a an actual physical

[29:36] manifestation of that

[29:38] it's just symbolically it's not bones

[29:42] and muscles it but

[29:43] it's it's they're called the cinderella

[29:44] tissue of orthopedics robert's like

[29:47] the stekko's book it it's it is it's

[29:50] you know i this is what i wrote in my

[29:52] book that the the the muscles and bones

[29:55] don't get to do a damn thing

[29:57] without cinderella holding them together

[29:59] and keeping their act together

[30:01] and it's that it's a triumvirate and

[30:03] it's a it's it's

[30:04] the holy trinity of the body and it but

[30:07] it doesn't work on its own

[30:08] it doesn't work without the other two

[30:09] and the other two don't work without it

[30:11] yeah and the relationship gives us a

[30:13] holy trinity yeah literally and and

[30:15] after all that's what yoga's about right

[30:17] eat up in gala and when they're in

[30:18] balance

[30:19] the balance of shashana rising

[30:22] is a neutral expression of balance it's

[30:24] not an

[30:25] in order to it's not when she's right

[30:27] and he's right then

[30:29] they can be friends it doesn't work like

[30:31] that it's it's already

[30:33] a thing that when balance creates

[30:36] a third thing that is the balanced

[30:39] unification

[30:40] of that form and that is yoga

[30:44] that is yoga it means unifying

[30:47] beautiful you said something really

[30:49] important a few minutes ago that

[30:51] i think it's just worth highlighting

[30:54] that

[30:55] when you're safe enough you can get

[30:57] curious

[31:00] and i think that is so important

[31:03] that we are that we have the ability to

[31:06] arrive in a state of being where we can

[31:08] get curious and and and

[31:11] and experience the tissue experience the

[31:14] nervous system

[31:15] experience my state of being and then

[31:18] move

[31:19] from that state of being and experience

[31:21] movement in that way

[31:23] so without knowing what it is i'm not

[31:26] you know this it's

[31:27] exactly that but and it's not an

[31:28] intellectual process so i'm really

[31:30] hoping

[31:31] in the teacher training that we could

[31:33] bring people

[31:34] aware i'm not saying don't study it

[31:37] intellectually of course and we'll give

[31:38] you all the information you need yeah

[31:40] it's both and

[31:40] yeah it's it's it's it's how does it how

[31:44] do we experience it distinct from

[31:46] understanding it naming it and

[31:48] and analyzing it how do we experience it

[31:52] right now right now yeah and

[31:55] what are the cumulative effects of that

[31:57] experience

[32:00] um over time and at the end of 500 hours

[32:04] you'll be a yoga teacher so you'll know

[32:09] and and it brings you to embodiment you

[32:11] know and that's where

[32:13] that's where we get to have the

[32:15] experience of just really living in a

[32:17] body

[32:18] and and and moving from presence and

[32:21] it's so powerful

[32:22] to be able to do that

[32:26] i'm so glad you're joining us it's an

[32:28] honor to have you as a member of our

[32:30] faculty

[32:32] it's an honor to be there thank you

[32:34] christine i really appreciate you asking

[32:36] me

[32:36] whenever you did it's great and it's so

[32:39] nice to be doing the whole

[32:40] group from the beginning yes

[32:44] i'm gonna be i know i you know how

[32:46] emotional i get i love it that i can

[32:49] i don't mean i'm emotional in my

[32:50] teaching i mean you know how i get kind

[32:51] of

[32:52] attached to yeah i know right like the

[32:56] 300 hours that just graduated are like

[32:58] you know they're like our little

[33:01] outfit

[33:05] i know it's like i watch you on facebook

[33:07] with cody

[33:09] and i cause i lost my dog last year and

[33:11] i just can't even tell you how much i

[33:13] miss her

[33:14] and and i just look at that's not

[33:16] anything too it's just that i'm sitting

[33:17] there thinking what is this

[33:19] emotional detachment thing i mean what

[33:21] am i a jedi

[33:23] give me a break i care and

[33:26] you know it's like part of it and you

[33:28] can't help it because you do care that

[33:30] people get it but you care

[33:31] yeah for sure well their highest good

[33:34] not like i want you to get it my way

[33:36] because i said that it's not possessive

[33:38] caring

[33:38] it's a very good to be well it's like

[33:41] it's like this desire for others to be

[33:43] well yeah

[33:45] yeah so so you're kicking us off on

[33:49] on the whole topic of fascia and

[33:51] eventually we'll get to biotensegrity

[33:53] but we'll start with fascia

[33:55] on sunday and then in the 300 hour we'll

[33:59] get into

[34:01] biotensegrity which is kind of like

[34:04] a level up

[34:08] so exciting so i just see the shelves

[34:11] behind me but there's

[34:12] this wall to wall by it and think well

[34:14] 10 seconds

[34:15] so it's like uh yeah i just i redid my

[34:18] living room so i've got a set of shelves

[34:20] with all my integrity toys on them

[34:22] because i couldn't bear them being away

[34:23] in boxes

[34:24] and um it's like it's like a

[34:27] i don't know i don't know what it is

[34:29] it's like a what it's like a thing

[34:31] it's a passion but it comes from

[34:33] leonardo da vinci i originally started

[34:35] as an artist

[34:36] and my training in art and art history

[34:38] took me to leonardo da vinci and

[34:41] i've never ever stopped being in love

[34:43] with his work

[34:45] and it's there's so much more to it oh

[34:48] my god there's so much to it well and

[34:51] like from a hakomi point of view too as

[34:53] the like the somatic trauma therapy that

[34:55] i do it's all about

[34:56] it's all about holding conflicting

[34:59] thoughts or conflicting emotions

[35:02] in this space of loving presence at the

[35:04] same time

[35:05] and when i started learning

[35:07] biotensegrity i was like oh this is so

[35:09] cool i'm doing like emotional tensegrity

[35:11] work with people

[35:14] it's it's and it's kind of like what

[35:16] john says about you know looking at the

[35:18] parallels

[35:18] of these principles are everywhere on

[35:21] every level throughout

[35:22] all of nature so of course it's there on

[35:25] the emotional level too

[35:26] and the mental level too and the

[35:28] physical level too

[35:30] so cool all right my darling well i have

[35:33] to go

[35:34] and i love you and i can't wait to work

[35:36] with you and i'll see you on sunday

[35:37] i will see you on sunday i'm so excited

[35:40] all right

[35:41] good luck bye

Christine Wushke
ArtistChristine Wushke

Myofascial yoga teacher, Reiki practitioner and Hakomi therapist with over twenty years of experience helping people find wellness and spiritual transformation by listening to the…

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ご質問はありますか?

よくある質問

In the January 2022 conversation, Christine Wushke says she dislikes calling fascia connective tissue because it suggests separate parts stitched together. Joanne Avison describes it instead as one continuous fabric with many folds, turns, and spaces, from which muscle, bone, and other specialized tissues differentiate.
She uses the analogy to show that bricks and cement are themselves made from more basic materials. Sand becomes cement, brick, or glass depending on how it is treated, so fascia is the earth-level material beneath the visible components rather than the mortar between them.
Avison and Wushke argue that students can only bring their full selves into practice when the room feels safe, whole, and respectful. They describe creating that feeling as something a teacher must establish in advance, before posture or movement work can meaningfully begin.
Avison says anatomy and asana names are learned in the intellectual domain, while practice is an experience that involves the body, heart, and presence. The conversation suggests teachers need to bridge these, because knowing a muscle's attachments does not tell you how a student will respond physically or emotionally.
Wushke recounts a professor who described fascia as what gets scraped away to reveal the locomotor system. Avison responds that this framing is a myth, since removing the continuous tissue discards the very connectivity that lets the body move as a whole.
The video description lists biotensegrity and trauma awareness as topics of the conversation. The threads of wholeness and safety in the talk connect to both, though the excerpt available does not fully unpack the terms, so viewers should watch the full video for those definitions.

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