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Inspiration

Empathy vs. Sensitivity: Feeling Others Without Absorbing Them

JH
Joe Hudson
Nov 4, 2026
読了 約9分

出典:Joe Hudson | Art of Accomplishment

視聴 · 7

Joe Hudson, co-founder of the Art of Accomplishment and a coach who has worked with executives at companies including OpenAI, Google, and Apple, opens this conversation with a compliment that doubles as a puzzle. People who watch him coach notice how precisely he can read what is happening inside someone else, and yet he rarely seems swamped by it. In this video, he and Alexa pull apart three ideas that get lumped together: empathy, sensitivity, and porousness. Hudson argues that the capacity to feel what others feel is not the problem. The problem is the absorption that follows, when another person's emotional weather gets mistaken for your own. His remedy is less a technique than a habit of inquiry: ask whether a feeling is yours, and treat the thing that wears you out as a map of who you are.

読む · 8セクション

What does empathy actually mean?

Hudson starts with a definition that is more modest than most people expect. "To me empathy just means my capacity to recognize, understand what the other person is feeling," he says at about the one-minute mark, adding that he would go further and argue for feeling it too. He points to mirror neurons as the machinery meant for this, and he describes empathy as a capacity every person has, with the caveat that some people are neurologically atypical. Like other capacities, he suspects, it varies by nature and can be nurtured.

He is also candid about where intense empathy often comes from. "I think a lot of people who have a lot of empathy had some sort of abuse or trauma in their childhood," he says, recalling how he had to learn to read his father the moment he walked through the door after coming home upset, so he would know how to stay safe. Empathy, in that frame, is not a gift that arrived out of nowhere. It is often a survival skill that was sharpened early and never switched off.

Hudson's own version is more specific. When he and his partner Tara talk about how empathy works in their systems, he says, he simply knows what the other person is feeling. "It's a knowing," he explains. Occasionally he can feel a corresponding sensation in his body, a tightness in someone's belly that shows up in his own. Tara, by his account, experiences something closer to the whole emotional event. That contrast is the hinge of the entire talk. Knowing what someone feels is empathy. Taking their feeling in, and then experiencing it as your own, is something else.

Why are empathy, sensitivity, and porousness so often confused?

Hudson draws three distinctions. Empathy is the recognition. Sensitivity is how much of the signal you actually take in. Porousness is what happens when you take it in and fail to notice where it came from. "It's the sensitivity is like how much you actually take it in and then confuse it for your own often, too," he says. Sensitivity and porousness, in other words, are the amplifiers and leaks that turn an ordinary act of understanding into exhaustion.

He illustrates the point with a sense he knows well. Hudson describes himself as extremely sensitive to sound and very porous when it comes to noise. He says Tara chooses restaurants without large loud crowds because he gets overwhelmed quickly. Yet emotionally, he says, he has never been extremely sensitive to other people's feelings, and he generally knows what is his and what is not. That mismatch is useful. A person can be highly sensitive in one channel and not another, and the way that sensitivity shows up is rarely the same as the empathy beneath it.

Hudson also argues that people with emotional sensitivity tend to need more recovery time, more time alone, and more distance from big group situations where feelings are tangled and unclear. He is careful not to call them "too sensitive." "I don't want to put a judgment on it as too much or too little," he says. The issue, as he frames it, is fit between a person's wiring and their environment, not a defect in the person.

Why do the most attuned people struggle the most?

This is where the talk turns hardest. Hudson says that in his observation, the people who find this most difficult are those who are sensitive, empathetic, and who also suffered significant abuse. In that setting, "the way somebody else felt was everything. It was the alpha, the omega. It was like life or death." The more dangerous the household, the more the child learns to read the abuser, and the more that reading becomes a constant, involuntary background process.

When that skill outlives the danger, it keeps running. A grown adult who scans every room for what a person is feeling, and who cannot stop absorbing it, is still doing the job of a frightened child. Hudson's point is not that these adults are broken. It is that the same capacity that once kept them safe is now the thing taxing them, which is why the question of ownership matters so much.

Is sensitivity something to fix?

Hudson's first instruction is blunt. "The most important step is to stop seeing it as a problem." He is frank that he could easily frame his sound sensitivity as a flaw, since it drives his restaurant choices. But he also lists what it gives him: a capacity to read emotional state from the tone of someone's voice, a stronger ability to learn by ear, to remember stories in ways most people don't, and a deeper sensitivity to music. The trait comes with costs and benefits packaged together, and both are simply part of how one is built.

The reframe does two things at once. It stops the self-criticism that tends to inflate overwhelm, and it treats the trait as neutral material to be worked with rather than a verdict on your character. Hudson's broader argument is that a feature you have stopped apologizing for is much easier to manage, because you can finally look at it.

"One of the things is to just not recognize it as something bad, but to recognize it as a feature that has like a whole bunch of positive consequences as well."

(Joe Hudson, in the video, around 7:15)

How do you tell what's yours and what's theirs?

The second step is distinguishing your feelings from someone else's, and Hudson admits the question sounds odd. "Is this thing that I'm feeling, is it mine or is it somebody else's?" There is, he concedes, no clean way to verify the answer. Yet in his experience an answer almost always arrives. People ask themselves the question, pause, and say something like, "Oh wait, no, this isn't mine." The value lies in the pause itself, which creates a small gap between sensation and story.

The question has to be asked regularly to matter. Hudson's advice is to make it a habit during the moments when a feeling spikes unexpectedly, especially in a crowded or emotionally charged room. Over time, the question becomes a way of noticing when you have walked into someone else's weather and started to dress it up as your own.

Why do attuned people feel the feeling underneath?

One of the most striking observations in the video concerns the layers beneath what people show. Hudson describes how a person may present as angry while actually being scared. The highly attuned person, he says, will often feel the fear rather than the anger, and then misfile it as their own. "They're going to be like, aha, I'm scared." Their sensitivity catches not just the presenting emotion but the quiet thing underneath that nobody is naming.

That is what makes the ownership question so useful. If you stop and ask whether the fear is yours or the other person's, sometimes that single question is enough to untangle the situation. Hudson's broader point is that empathy is powerful precisely because it reaches below the surface, and that same reach is what makes it exhausting when it is not sorted.

"Is it you that's scared or is it the other person scared? Sometimes that's all the question there is."

(Joe Hudson, in the video, around 5:46)

What does the video set up next?

Hudson signals that the conversation is only the foundation. The chapter structure outlines further steps: becoming self-referential through what he calls the 10% move, setting energetic, emotional, and physical boundaries, leaving a room to recover and then returning to practice, finding "hooks" that anchor you, recognizing that the work itself makes you more empathetic rather than more sensitive, and resisting the urge to fix other people so they can feel what they feel. The video also addresses bringing that same empathy back toward yourself, which he treats as the final and often most neglected piece.

Where to go from here

If this talk resonates, the most useful next step is to start small. Pick one moment this week when you notice yourself overwhelmed after being around people, and ask the question Hudson returns to again and again: is this mine or somebody else's? You do not need a perfect answer. The point is the pause. For a deeper structure, Hudson and the Art of Accomplishment offer two resources linked from the video: The Connection Course at https://yt.artofaccomplishment.com/empathy, for people who feel a lot and find it wearing, and the Connection Challenge at https://yt.artofaccomplishment.com/connection-challenge-empathy. Watch the full conversation for the chapters on boundaries, hooks, and empathy turned inward, where Hudson makes his case that the thing that wears you out may be the thing that shows you who you are.

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Transcript

[0:01] Hey Joe. So, anybody who's seen you

[0:04] coach has noticed that you have this

[0:07] incredible empathy. Like you can really

[0:10] see what's going on for other people.

[0:12] And yet you never seem to get lost in

[0:14] it. It never seems to be too much for

[0:16] you.

[0:17] I think this is one of your superpowers.

[0:19] So, I want to talk to you today about

[0:22] how can people with a high level of

[0:24] empathy make that into a superpower,

[0:27] something that nourishes them, doesn't

[0:29] take them out?

[0:30] >> Yeah. [clears throat] So, really first

[0:31] correction,

[0:33] if Tara was here, she would tell you I

[0:34] absolutely get lost in it sometimes. So,

[0:37] >> [laughter]

[0:37] >> but to me empathy just means my capacity

[0:41] to

[0:43] recognize, understand what the other

[0:45] person is feeling.

[0:46] Even feel, I would argue, feel what the

[0:48] other person is feeling. And so, the

[0:50] mirror mirror neurons

[0:52] in our brain, like that's what they're

[0:53] meant to do. And so, we all have this

[0:55] innate capacity to be empathetic. Maybe

[0:58] not all of us, but there might be

[0:59] neurologically atypical folks. But, in

[1:02] general, most of us have this capacity.

[1:04] And my guess is, though I haven't seen

[1:06] any research on it, it's like any one of

[1:08] our capacities, some people have more of

[1:10] it and some people have less of it by

[1:11] nature. They're just born with more of

[1:13] it, born with less of it. And we can

[1:14] nurture it so that we can have more of

[1:16] it or less of it. And I think a lot of

[1:18] people who have a lot of empathy had

[1:21] some sort of abuse or trauma in their

[1:23] childhood.

[1:24] My dad coming home being super upset, I

[1:27] had to learn very quickly how to assess

[1:29] him when he walked in the door to know

[1:31] how to be safe.

[1:33] And so, I think that's a very common

[1:35] way that empathy happens. But I I'll

[1:38] make a distinction between that and what

[1:39] I would call people who are very

[1:40] sensitive.

[1:41] >> Yeah.

[1:42] >> Or porous. Like there's a way in which

[1:44] I'm sensitive, but I'm really not

[1:46] porous, meaning

[1:47] it's

[1:48] easy for in most areas, it's very easy

[1:51] for me to understand

[1:54] what's mine and what's not mine. That's

[1:56] a

[1:56] relatively easy thing for me to

[1:58] understand, and I don't take on other

[1:59] people's stuff easily. But, I've never

[2:02] been

[2:03] extremely sensitive to

[2:06] other people's emotions. I'm extremely

[2:08] sensitive to sound. I'm very porous when

[2:10] it comes to sound. You

[2:11] you know, Tara will pick restaurants for

[2:13] us where there's not a huge loud noise

[2:15] because I get so overwhelmed. And I feel

[2:18] like that's very that sensitivity, I

[2:20] think for some people is like an

[2:21] emotional sensitivity. They're very

[2:23] sensitive to the

[2:25] the effects of the people around them.

[2:27] And I think that those are those are

[2:28] distinct things that people often

[2:30] confuse. And I And what I notice is

[2:33] folks who are highly sensitive to it and

[2:35] empathetic,

[2:37] they have the roughest time with it.

[2:39] >> Mhm.

[2:40] >> So, and and for me, it's been a little

[2:42] bit easier because I'm not as sensitive

[2:45] to it.

[2:46] And I And the people I feel who have the

[2:48] roughest time are the folks who

[2:52] sensitive, empathetic, and they suffered

[2:55] a lot of abuse.

[2:56] >> Yeah.

[2:57] >> Or even a good a good amount of abuse

[2:59] because all of a sudden, the way

[3:01] somebody else felt was everything. It

[3:04] was the alpha, the omega. It was like

[3:07] life or death.

[3:08] It was everything. The how the mom or

[3:10] the dad or however the abuser or the nun

[3:13] felt. And so, for them, they're so

[3:15] sensitive and they were so empathic and

[3:17] they were getting more empathic as as it

[3:19] went on.

[3:21] So, that they could spot what was going

[3:23] on with the with the abuser.

[3:26] And so, that to me, that's really

[3:29] where those are the folks who seem to

[3:30] have it the toughest.

[3:32] >> I totally agree with that that

[3:34] conclusion. And it's just making me

[3:36] wonder, is there something

[3:38] it So, empathy is not sensitivity and

[3:41] it's not porousness. So, what is it

[3:43] exactly?

[3:44] >> Just the capacity to understand, maybe

[3:48] even feel what the other person is

[3:50] feeling.

[3:50] >> Mhm.

[3:51] >> So, for instance, you know, when Tara

[3:54] and I talk about how empathy works in

[3:56] our systems, I just know what the other

[3:58] person is feeling. It's a knowing.

[4:00] Occasionally,

[4:02] I can feel it in my body. I'll like, oh,

[4:04] I feel

[4:05] some something Oh, there like their

[4:07] belly's tight. I'll feel that same

[4:09] response in my

[4:11] Whereas Tara, it's not really a knowing.

[4:13] It's like she's feeling the whole thing.

[4:15] Like she's she's having the emotional

[4:17] experience that the other person is

[4:18] having.

[4:20] And I don't have that I don't have that

[4:22] sensitivity to it.

[4:23] >> Mhm.

[4:24] >> Uh so, I know it and that's the empathy.

[4:26] It's the sensitivity is like how much

[4:27] you actually take it in and then

[4:30] confuse it for your own often, too.

[4:34] >> Okay, interesting. So, if I'm following

[4:36] you correctly, there's actually

[4:37] something it's like

[4:40] being too sensitive is part of the thing

[4:42] that blows people out or overwhelms

[4:44] people.

[4:45] >> Yeah, I wouldn't call it too sensitive.

[4:47] Like I don't want to put a judgment on

[4:48] it as too much or too little, but the

[4:51] folks who are more sensitive are more

[4:52] likely to be blown out, are more likely

[4:54] need to recover

[4:56] in different ways, need more alone time,

[4:59] get more overwhelmed by being with

[5:02] groups of people in big emotional

[5:04] situations where the emotions aren't

[5:06] clean or

[5:07] >> Right.

[5:07] >> And that's the other thing that I notice

[5:09] is like when somebody's very emotionally

[5:11] attuned, and this is really fascinating

[5:13] to me. When people are very emotionally

[5:15] attuned

[5:17] and they're sensitive and they're

[5:18] empathetic,

[5:20] they often feel the thing that's

[5:22] underneath the thing that the other

[5:24] person is feeling.

[5:25] >> Yeah.

[5:25] >> Which is so strange, right? So, the

[5:28] person presents as angry, but they're

[5:30] really scared. The deeply empathetic and

[5:32] sensitive person is going to be scared.

[5:34] >> Yeah.

[5:35] >> They're going to feel it and they're

[5:36] going to confuse it as theirs.

[5:38] They're going to be like, aha,

[5:40] I'm scared.

[5:42] And if they stop and ask themselves, if

[5:43] they've been in the in the world for a

[5:45] while, like is it you that's scared or

[5:46] is it the other person scared? Sometimes

[5:48] that's all the the only question. And

[5:50] we'll talk about other survival guides

[5:52] for this.

[5:52] >> Right.

[5:53] >> But but you can just notice that that

[5:56] they'll not only be sensitive to the

[5:58] thing that's presenting, they'll often

[5:59] be sensitive to the thing that is not

[6:01] that the quiet thing underneath it all

[6:02] that's not being talked about or not

[6:04] being expressed.

[6:06] >> Great. So, let's dive into that. What

[6:08] can somebody do

[6:11] to start making their empathy, their

[6:14] sensitivity, etc. into something that

[6:16] really works for them?

[6:18] >> So, um the most important step is to

[6:21] stop seeing it as a problem.

[6:24] Right? Um

[6:26] I am super auditorily sensitive.

[6:30] I could totally see that as a problem. I

[6:32] can also deeply understand that that

[6:33] allows me to get clarity on a person's

[6:36] emotional state by the tone of their

[6:37] voice.

[6:38] It also

[6:40] can help me

[6:42] learn better auditorily than most people

[6:44] do, remember stories in a way that most

[6:46] people don't, be more sensitive to

[6:48] music. So, there's a whole bunch of

[6:50] things that are like really beautiful

[6:52] about it, but I also know I have very

[6:55] limited time in a very noisy restaurant

[6:57] before I get overwhelmed.

[6:59] And so So, one of the things is to just

[7:02] not recognize it as something bad, but

[7:04] to recognize it as a feature

[7:06] that has like a whole bunch of positive

[7:08] consequences as well.

[7:10] And something you're born with, and so

[7:11] that's just how it's going to be.

[7:13] I think that's a really critical piece.

[7:15] Then

[7:17] the next thing is to start being able to

[7:20] distinguish what's yours and what's

[7:21] somebody else's.

[7:23] No matter how sensitive you are, if

[7:25] you're empathetic, that's going to be a

[7:26] really important piece to to know what

[7:29] is yours and what's somebody else's.

[7:31] And like we talked about before,

[7:33] it may be something that's presented,

[7:35] and it's maybe something that's not

[7:36] presenting. It could be the anger, or it

[7:39] could be the fear underneath the anger,

[7:40] or it could be the fear,

[7:42] or it could be the anger that's

[7:43] underneath the fear. And so, really

[7:45] starting to ask yourself the question on

[7:47] a regular basis, is this thing that I'm

[7:49] feeling, is it mine or is it somebody

[7:51] else's?

[7:52] Which is such a weird question, and

[7:54] there's no real way to know the answer

[7:55] to it, but yet somehow an answer almost

[7:58] always comes. Oh wait, no, this isn't

[7:59] mine. So, somehow or another, I when I

[8:01] ask that question to people, they almost

[8:03] always have an answer to it.

[8:05] >> Mhm. Mhm.

[8:06] >> Which is weird, but there is kind of a

[8:08] strange is this mine is this not mine

[8:11] question that is incredibly useful to

[8:13] know what's going on. And often times

[8:16] for me, I think about what what was my

[8:19] emotional state walking into the

[8:22] into the situation

[8:24] and what is it now helps me get to see

[8:27] what's mine and what's not mine if I

[8:28] need the intellectual reference point.

[8:31] Oh, right. I was in a really good mood

[8:33] until this thing happened. What's going

[8:36] on?

[8:37] Like oh, who like is this mine is this

[8:39] not mine? What's the thing that

[8:40] triggered me or

[8:41] am I feeling somebody else? And that was

[8:43] a tremendously important piece.

[8:45] >> Yeah, I'm just thinking since we are

[8:47] talking

[8:48] probably to people who are having a high

[8:50] level of sensitivity and maybe even a

[8:52] high level of referencing outside.

[8:55] Uh it seems like you could maybe point

[8:57] at ways for people to start

[8:59] differentiating mine not mine.

[9:01] >> Yeah. Yeah, so

[9:04] one is ask yourself and oddly that works

[9:06] often. The other one is to become more

[9:08] self-referential, right? So

[9:12] what is my body feeling right now?

[9:14] >> Mhm.

[9:15] >> Externally is usually easier than

[9:17] internally the internal

[9:19] feeling, but that's a huge piece. If you

[9:21] can keep just 10% of your attention in

[9:23] your own body

[9:25] that often immediately changes when

[9:28] you're lost in empathy.

[9:30] >> Yeah.

[9:30] >> So just like a simple oh, I'm keeping

[9:33] some of my attention in me instead of

[9:36] fully going into you, which

[9:38] for me was incredibly important as a

[9:40] kid, right? Like to be in my father was

[9:43] incredibly important if I was going to

[9:45] survive. To know where he was at, what

[9:47] what the mood was, when the little

[9:50] you know, when the blood alcohol level

[9:52] hit a certain point where I was going to

[9:53] get in trouble

[9:54] and the wince that happened on his face

[9:56] and right like those were incredibly

[9:58] important maneuvers for me to master.

[10:01] And so I wasn't going to keep any of my

[10:03] attention in me. I was going to

[10:06] you know, and [snorts] what's

[10:07] interesting when I think about that

[10:08] those times

[10:10] in retrospect now I'm like, oh my dad

[10:12] was like in deep shame.

[10:14] >> Yeah.

[10:14] >> And I was aware of his anger, but I was

[10:17] feeling his shame.

[10:19] There must be something wrong with me.

[10:22] Was really his.

[10:23] >> Which happens a lot with shame.

[10:24] >> Which happens a lot with shame.

[10:27] And so

[10:28] so it's a really interesting thing where

[10:30] as I was learning to survive by being

[10:33] able to read him.

[10:34] >> Yeah.

[10:35] >> But it wasn't until years later that I

[10:37] started to see oh, the thing that I was

[10:40] feeling

[10:42] I'm bad because my dad is angry actually

[10:45] was at the time me feeling his shame.

[10:49] Later it just became anytime anybody was

[10:51] angry at me I was

[10:53] I was feeling shame because they were

[10:54] just wired together.

[10:56] Right, which is weird too. And that that

[10:58] also happens. All of a sudden what was

[11:00] somebody else's becomes yours if you're

[11:02] around it long enough.

[11:04] >> Oh, yeah. That's one of the liabilities

[11:05] of

[11:06] >> Right.

[11:06] >> high empathy.

[11:07] >> of high empathy.

[11:08] >> Yeah.

[11:08] >> If you can't distinguish what's yours

[11:10] and what's somebody else's.

[11:11] >> Right.

[11:12] >> So any really form of boundary I find is

[11:14] really helpful.

[11:17] Um [snorts]

[11:18] like feeling your energetic boundary,

[11:20] feeling your emotional boundary, feeling

[11:22] what's yours, what isn't yours.

[11:24] >> boundary.

[11:24] >> Physical boundary. Any of those things.

[11:26] Yeah, touching yourself

[11:28] you know, breathing in and feeling the

[11:30] boundary of your lung expansion. Like

[11:32] any interestingly any place where you

[11:34] can make the distinction between you and

[11:35] somebody else in any form is very useful

[11:39] in knowing what's yours and what's not

[11:41] yours. So I think that that's that's one

[11:43] thing. Drawing the boundaries, getting

[11:45] out of

[11:47] >> Absolutely.

[11:48] >> Like just getting out.

[11:49] >> Moving yourself away from the stimulus.

[11:51] >> Super important.

[11:54] And there's there's pluses and minuses

[11:57] there.

[11:58] If you are overwhelmed it's important to

[12:00] do it do it right away. Don't question

[12:02] it. Don't go oh, I need to be better.

[12:04] Like none of that stuff, right? And

[12:08] it is it is also the exact place for

[12:10] your training ground or your dojo,

[12:11] right? And like if you're going to train

[12:14] at something, you need to have that

[12:15] challenge.

[12:17] So, if you separate yourself from it all

[12:19] the time,

[12:20] >> yeah, then you're never going to be

[12:21] training yourself.

[12:23] So, that's a I think important to know,

[12:25] oh, yeah,

[12:26] I can go in here and train at my pace

[12:29] >> Right.

[12:29] >> and come out. And that's a For me, that

[12:31] was a really important thing. You

[12:34] You know, I remember this time with

[12:35] Tara.

[12:36] We were um

[12:38] kids were young. We were both exhausted.

[12:40] Tara's home with the kids. I'm out doing

[12:42] venture capital conferences to find

[12:45] deals.

[12:47] And

[12:48] I would come home and Tara would be

[12:50] like, "You got to be a human, and I've

[12:53] been stuck with the kids, you know?" And

[12:54] I'm like, "I'm exhausted. I just like

[12:56] went to this conference."

[12:58] And we were, you know, both just

[12:59] exhausted trying to figure out who the

[13:01] hell was going to help us out and hoping

[13:02] the other person was. And one day,

[13:05] kids got a little bit older, and Tara

[13:07] could come I was going to this one

[13:08] particular conference that Tara found

[13:10] interesting called Wisdom 2.0. So, Tara

[13:12] came, and she

[13:13] came back from it. 3 days later, she

[13:15] goes, "Oh my god, I'm so exhausted. How

[13:16] did you ever do this?"

[13:18] And

[13:19] and it was like that was such a

[13:21] heavy-duty

[13:22] thing for me to like be around that many

[13:24] people, feel that many people for that

[13:27] much time was just

[13:29] unbelievably challenging for me. Even

[13:31] though

[13:32] I didn't really at that time in my my my

[13:35] evolution, I didn't really care what

[13:36] anybody thought of me. I wasn't trying

[13:38] to like manage people's emotional states

[13:40] around me. I wasn't trying to get people

[13:41] to like me. I wasn't I wasn't at the

[13:43] conference to get anything done, but

[13:45] it's just still so much for me to feel

[13:48] >> Yeah.

[13:48] >> all of that.

[13:50] But, it was my dojo, too. It was like,

[13:52] oh, how do I do this in such a way that

[13:55] that it can work for me? What How do I

[13:56] turn it on and off? How do I

[13:59] reduce the empathy that I'm feeling and

[14:01] increase the empathy. How do I modulate

[14:03] it for for the circumstance? I don't

[14:06] really feel like you can turn it off

[14:07] entirely. You can There's like a

[14:09] repression you can do, which does not

[14:11] serve at all. But, there is a way in

[14:13] which you can be like a little more open

[14:16] or a little more consumed just basically

[14:18] by how much attention you're putting in

[14:19] yourself and how much attention you're

[14:21] putting out.

[14:23] But there's another piece of empathy

[14:24] that I think back to your original

[14:26] question of like what do you deal with

[14:27] it? How do you deal with it? Is there's

[14:29] hooks. Like people having certain

[14:32] emotions around you have certain hooks

[14:34] that catch you. Like the anger, like my

[14:36] dad getting angry at me. Now every time

[14:38] somebody gets angry at me, I feel the

[14:39] shame. I feel like I've done something

[14:41] wrong. And that's actually one of the

[14:43] things that makes your empathy a

[14:45] superpower right now

[14:47] is it teaches you exactly where all your

[14:49] hooks are. You're just like it's so

[14:51] quick to show you

[14:53] oh, when someone is passive-aggressive

[14:55] with you, that's a hook. What do you

[14:56] need to do to unhook that?

[14:59] Right? Oh, when somebody calls you like

[15:03] want

[15:04] a more modern one. If somebody thinks

[15:06] that you can save them

[15:08] because you have some sort of superpower

[15:11] and you're like oh good, I don't want

[15:13] like needy. Get that away from me.

[15:16] Oh, that's a hook.

[15:18] Right? What Where does that come from?

[15:20] >> Right, right, right. It's like showing

[15:21] you where

[15:21] >> That was my That was yeah, it shows you

[15:23] exactly where your stuff is. That needy

[15:25] thing comes from oh, when like my mom

[15:28] got in a very particular needy mood or

[15:30] my dad when he got drunk in this certain

[15:32] way got in a kind of needy mood.

[15:35] What I notice is the more of the hooks

[15:36] that I clear, the less exhausted I was.

[15:39] >> Yeah.

[15:39] >> So So that's kind of what the dojo is to

[15:41] some degree. It's not all of it,

[15:43] especially if you're super sensitive.

[15:45] >> Yeah.

[15:46] >> But it is definitely a large part of it.

[15:48] If it flow If the the emotions that

[15:49] people are having flow right through you

[15:51] and don't get caught, it's a lot less

[15:53] exhausting

[15:54] than if they're getting caught.

[15:56] >> Yeah.

[15:56] >> More exhausting if you can't identify

[15:58] it.

[16:00] Less exhausting if you can't identify

[16:01] what's yours and what's not yours. More

[16:02] exhausting if they get caught, less

[16:04] exhausting if they don't get caught.

[16:06] >> So the implication to some extent is if

[16:08] you're really doing your self-work,

[16:10] clearing out kind of your own um

[16:13] necessities and scars, but

[16:15] like your own dynamics internally so

[16:17] that for instance, if somebody's angry

[16:20] at me, well, I see that their anger has

[16:23] some beauty to it.

[16:25] >> Yeah.

[16:25] >> Great, cuz like I've really come into

[16:27] contact with my own anger, and I love my

[16:29] anger now.

[16:30] >> Right.

[16:30] >> So, that's a lot It's both allowing me

[16:33] to see where I still have self-work to

[16:34] do, and allowing me to clear that stuff

[16:37] up, and maybe allowing me to be more

[16:40] empathetic.

[16:41] Because now I can just see what's really

[16:43] happening for that person.

[16:44] >> So, here's the unfortunate piece is that

[16:46] it does make you more pathetic or more

[16:48] fortunate piece. It's both, but

[16:51] there was this great study on

[16:52] microexpressions where they were looking

[16:53] for like who could identify

[16:55] microexpressions in specific situations,

[16:57] and

[16:58] there was definitely a high correlation

[17:00] with folks who had had some sort of

[17:02] abusive background, but also Buddhist

[17:04] monks.

[17:05] >> Yeah.

[17:05] >> People who've spent a lot of time in

[17:07] their own emotional states. And And

[17:10] that's something I've noticed with

[17:11] everybody in our work is the more you do

[17:13] the work, the more empathetic you

[17:15] become. Doesn't mean the more sensitive

[17:17] you become, and oftentimes when people

[17:19] do the work, their distinction between

[17:22] them and others grows immensely. Their

[17:24] ability to draw boundaries grows

[17:25] immensely. Be able to put attention in

[17:27] themselves and put attention others,

[17:28] that all grows, but also their empathy

[17:31] grows as well.

[17:32] >> Mhm.

[17:33] >> And so, it definitely seems to be a part

[17:34] of it. I don't know anybody who's

[17:37] worked with us for over like 4 years

[17:39] who's not far more empathetic now. And

[17:42] And for all the reasons that you just

[17:43] said.

[17:43] >> Right.

[17:44] >> Yeah.

[17:45] >> And

[17:46] just trying to be honest here, it does

[17:48] seem like it makes some social

[17:50] situations more exhausting.

[17:52] >> Without a doubt.

[17:53] >> Yeah.

[17:54] >> Yeah. So, I would say the more toxic the

[17:56] situation, the more exhausting it is.

[17:58] >> Yeah, that sounds right.

[17:59] >> Yeah. So, that's the blessing of it,

[18:02] which is

[18:03] oh, I just can't be in certain

[18:05] environments

[18:06] where the where

[18:08] there's like a lot of gossip, and

[18:09] there's a lot of lying, and there's a

[18:11] lot of, you know,

[18:13] >> Or like a lot of dissociation.

[18:15] >> Dissociation.

[18:15] >> Yeah.

[18:17] >> Um oddly, I can be with dissociation a

[18:19] lot better than the

[18:20] the other stuff.

[18:22] Um yeah, so for instance, I was a part

[18:24] of an organization where all of this was

[18:25] happening.

[18:27] And the recognition for me was, oh, this

[18:30] is extremely exhausting. It's also

[18:31] something

[18:33] that

[18:34] I can speak to. I can say, oh, here's

[18:36] all the things that need to be fixed or

[18:37] this is how to fix it or this is what's

[18:39] going on. But it was also really clear

[18:42] I would have to go into it to fix it and

[18:44] I wasn't willing to expend that energy.

[18:46] >> Right. There's your superpower again

[18:49] >> Yeah.

[18:49] >> of having

[18:51] couple different things there.

[18:52] Boundaries.

[18:53] >> Yeah.

[18:54] >> And the clarity. And by clarity here, I

[18:56] don't just mean like, oh, mental

[18:57] clarity. I mean like, it's like your

[18:59] system is clear.

[19:01] You're not hooked into thinking you have

[19:03] to fix it for them.

[19:05] >> Correct.

[19:06] >> And then that allows you to have this

[19:07] high level of empathy but not get

[19:10] snagged into some dynamics.

[19:13] >> Yeah. Well, that's the interesting

[19:14] thing, right? So, if you're very

[19:16] sensitive and you're empathetic and

[19:17] somebody was abusive to you,

[19:20] then your job was to fix it.

[19:22] >> Yeah. That's right.

[19:23] >> way you were going to survive

[19:25] was to make dad {slash} mom {slash}

[19:28] teacher whatever happy enough so that

[19:30] they didn't abuse you.

[19:32] What do I have to say, do, when do I

[19:33] hide, where do I go to figure out how to

[19:35] manage this person's

[19:37] you know, abuse. And it is literally the

[19:40] path is from that to learning, oh, I can

[19:44] feel you and see you, but I am now an

[19:46] adult and I that is not the survival

[19:48] skill anymore. Now it is to actually

[19:51] allow you to feel your own pain and to

[19:53] not take it on.

[19:54] >> That.

[19:55] >> Yeah.

[19:56] This is the interesting thing because

[19:58] typically when I see somebody who's very

[20:00] sensitive and very empathetic, they'll

[20:01] say that they'll think that that is

[20:03] mean. I thought that that was mean.

[20:05] >> Right, exactly.

[20:06] >> Yeah. Like, oh, that was mean.

[20:08] >> tendency to be like, no, if I see the

[20:09] pain, I have to I have to go try to do

[20:13] something.

[20:13] >> Exactly. And

[20:15] And then you realize the best thing to

[20:16] do is to let them feel their pain.

[20:18] >> [laughter]

[20:19] >> It's like you're basically like taking

[20:21] the hot frying pan and trying to grab it

[20:24] and pull it out of their hands. It's

[20:25] burning them and they're like, "Fuck

[20:27] you, I'm not letting go." And then

[20:29] you're just both holding this very

[20:30] burning frying pan instead of going,

[20:33] "Oh, wow.

[20:35] Looks like that [ __ ] hurts. Your Is

[20:37] your palm burning?

[20:39] It looks like your palm is burning. How

[20:42] That hot frying pan, that's a bitch."

[20:44] >> Right. That's what effective empathy is

[20:47] like. Like, "Ouch, it really looks like

[20:49] that hurts."

[20:50] >> Yes.

[20:51] >> Without trying to grab the hot frying

[20:53] pan.

[20:53] >> That's right.

[20:54] >> Yeah.

[20:54] >> That's right. Because

[20:56] at some point for me, it wasn't so much

[20:58] a It was just a learning, unfortunately,

[21:01] cuz there probably is a much quicker way

[21:02] to have learned it. But unfortunately,

[21:04] for me, it was just a learning that it

[21:05] doesn't work.

[21:07] >> Yeah.

[21:07] >> That That trying to save somebody

[21:11] doesn't work. What What works, and

[21:13] you'll see this in my coaching a lot.

[21:14] You'll see somebody like, "I'm scared

[21:17] the people judge me." And I'll be like,

[21:19] >> Yeah, they do.

[21:19] >> Yeah, there's 10 people right now

[21:21] judging you as a matter of fact. That

[21:22] guy right over there is probably Look at

[21:24] that face. He's probably judging you.

[21:25] His arms are crossed. He's judging you.

[21:28] You know, like, I want you to feel that

[21:30] thing because that instead of avoiding

[21:32] it, because that's what's actually going

[21:34] to change

[21:35] for And I can't do that if I'm also

[21:38] trying to get rid of

[21:41] the judgment. Right? So, if I'm

[21:42] empathetically involved in their

[21:44] judgment, I can't tell it's mine or

[21:46] theirs. And then I'm also like, "I don't

[21:48] want to feel this [ __ ] cuz I'm really

[21:49] sensitive."

[21:50] Then I'm in the game with them.

[21:52] >> Yeah, or the

[21:54] other thing that you might be doing

[21:55] there is like, if you're empathetically

[21:57] involved in their story that it's going

[21:59] to hurt too much if people judge, such

[22:01] that you're like, "No, no, no, nobody's

[22:03] judging you."

[22:04] >> Right, yeah. Exactly.

[22:06] >> [laughter]

[22:06] >> Yeah.

[22:07] There's another piece to this that I I

[22:09] think is really fascinating to me. There

[22:11] is something about people who are deeply

[22:15] sensitive and deeply empathetic often

[22:17] are prone to more passive-aggression,

[22:19] are prone to more

[22:20] >> Yeah.

[22:21] >> um resentment.

[22:23] >> Yeah. [snorts]

[22:23] >> And it's because they're

[22:27] not following their truth.

[22:30] They're following

[22:32] how do I make people okay, happy,

[22:36] not attack me.

[22:38] >> Right.

[22:38] >> And there's a distinction there. I think

[22:40] there's really important distinction

[22:41] there between It might be my truth to

[22:43] make people happy and that's fine.

[22:46] It may be my truth to tell you all to

[22:48] [ __ ] off and that's fine. But I am I

[22:51] know I'm making a choice here.

[22:54] I know that I I get to and I I am making

[22:57] a choice and I get full responsibility

[22:59] for that choice.

[23:00] And somehow or another, the more that

[23:03] the

[23:05] you're lost in the other person, that

[23:07] empathy and that

[23:08] sensitivity is at full bore

[23:11] and you can't make the distinction, you

[23:13] feel like you're a boat on this ocean.

[23:16] And so it's easy to start blaming the

[23:17] ocean. And so there's this great

[23:19] movement of oh, how

[23:21] do I recognize my own choice?

[23:24] Really starts to clarify clarify the

[23:27] position, like clarify the the over

[23:30] empathy or the toxicity of it and allows

[23:32] you to do things like draw those

[23:34] boundaries or say look, I'm not going to

[23:35] accept that or I'm going to allow you to

[23:36] have your pain cuz I I got a choice. I'm

[23:39] choosing whether I'm going to

[23:41] be in your pain or not be in your pain.

[23:43] >> Right. Do you want the person sitting

[23:45] across from you or in this relationship

[23:47] with you, whatever it might be, to be

[23:49] leaving themselves and trying to solve

[23:52] your problem to their own detriment?

[23:54] >> Right.

[23:55] >> And probably resenting you for it.

[23:57] >> Probably.

[23:58] >> Like yeah, oh, absolutely not. I don't

[24:01] want that. No. Like by all means take

[24:04] care of yourself.

[24:05] >> Right.

[24:05] >> So, I don't want to leave this episode

[24:07] without just talking about

[24:09] empathy as part of our work because

[24:11] obviously empathy is the E in view,

[24:14] which is what we teach in the connection

[24:15] course.

[24:16] >> Yeah.

[24:17] >> And it's really important to what we do

[24:19] and it's it's just it sounds from this

[24:23] episode so far like there's, you know,

[24:26] almost like a a way to to guide it to

[24:30] being something that really works for

[24:32] you. So, what do you have to say about

[24:33] that?

[24:35] >> Yeah, so I mean, in view, we call

[24:37] empathy being with somebody but not

[24:39] being in somebody. So, that's kind of

[24:42] the pithy way to say what we've been

[24:44] saying. However, I think that there's a

[24:47] a deeper thing that you asked at the

[24:48] beginning. It's like it's a superpower.

[24:50] Empathy is in itself a superpower,

[24:53] right? What what does it allow you to

[24:54] do? It allows you to know where the room

[24:56] is. It allows you to deeply connect with

[24:58] people. It allows you to be able to find

[25:02] a deal where everybody wins.

[25:04] It allows you to apologize to people in

[25:07] a way that they can relate to. It allows

[25:08] you to market better. It allows you to

[25:10] sell better. It allows you to love

[25:11] better. It like allows you to nurture

[25:13] better. It allows you to give gifts

[25:14] better. Like, it's an amazing uh

[25:16] characteristic. Yeah. And when I see

[25:19] I've literally had people like deeply on

[25:21] the spectrum

[25:23] talk to me and they're just like, "I

[25:25] want to learn empathy."

[25:27] Because they've been living without it

[25:29] in such a way that they they may be

[25:31] incredibly sensitive.

[25:33] And I would say deeply empathetic on one

[25:35] level but logically not understanding

[25:37] their own empathy.

[25:39] And

[25:40] um

[25:41] some of them different different for

[25:43] different people. But, there's this like

[25:44] beautiful

[25:46] under I mean, it just allows us to see

[25:48] and be seen, right? That's like which is

[25:50] such a pleasure of life as well.

[25:53] And

[25:54] the dilemma is that when empathy stops

[25:58] you from seeing

[26:00] yourself or others clearly because

[26:02] you've lost the distinction because

[26:04] you're in them

[26:06] deeply. And so,

[26:07] it's really the skill set.

[26:10] But, that's why at the very beginning I

[26:12] said, "Oh, the first thing is to not see

[26:14] it as a problem. It's to see it as

[26:16] something like beautiful."

[26:17] >> A different way to say that I think is

[26:19] sort of like, yeah, it might be a thing

[26:21] that feels like it's wounding you,

[26:24] but it is also a gift. And you if you

[26:27] look past the ways that it's wounding

[26:29] you, let's say because you get these

[26:31] skills that you have set. Yeah. You

[26:33] learn your own boundaries, you learn to

[26:35] self-reference, you learn to have

[26:37] whatever boundaries you need to have or

[26:39] like walk away from a situation to find

[26:41] yourself and so on.

[26:42] >> Yeah.

[26:42] >> Then it can become something that

[26:45] nourishes you.

[26:47] >> I would I would Yes, and I would say it

[26:48] like a little bit differently. So, with

[26:50] money for me, uh this is going to be

[26:53] tangential, but we'll get there. For

[26:54] money for me is that

[26:57] my dad chose money over me. At least in

[27:00] my consciousness, that's what he did.

[27:02] There's a lot of evidence to say he

[27:03] didn't, but that's the way I saw it. So,

[27:05] for me, money was bad. Everybody wanted

[27:07] money was bad. Money was bad. People had

[27:10] money was bad. Corporations who made

[27:12] money were bad.

[27:14] Like I was going to be an artist, and I

[27:15] wasn't going to live for money like

[27:17] those other schmuck [ __ ] who were just

[27:19] all greedy, you know, like money was

[27:20] bad.

[27:22] My process in money was to see that oh,

[27:25] money in itself is

[27:29] they're not good or bad or is this great

[27:30] facilitator. It's like there's

[27:33] there's this

[27:34] beauty to it, and there's this way that

[27:36] money can be a deep expression of your

[27:38] love. Money can be a deep expression of

[27:40] your care. It can be a deep expression

[27:42] of your mission. To me, empathy is very

[27:45] much like that. We've mistaken

[27:48] if you're overwhelmed by your empathy,

[27:50] it's become the oppressor

[27:53] that helped you create that empathy,

[27:55] right? It's It's like you've mistaken

[27:56] the empathy for

[27:58] the rageaholic or the abuser. And can

[28:02] you separate those two things and say,

[28:04] "Oh, wait. This This empathy in itself

[28:06] is not a bad thing.

[28:08] >> Yeah.

[28:09] >> It's just that I was taught to use it in

[28:12] this way that made me lose myself."

[28:14] >> Right.

[28:15] >> And now I'm going to

[28:17] use it to to help me find myself. And

[28:20] that's the coolest thing about empathy

[28:21] is like in the long journey of it,

[28:25] my empathy only makes it more and more

[28:28] clear who I am.

[28:31] And there's And so, one of the things

[28:33] that we'll do in some sessions is we'll

[28:36] talk about empathy for others and then

[28:38] we'll talk about empathy for yourself.

[28:40] >> Yeah.

[28:41] >> Which is like an unbelievably beautiful

[28:44] thing. It's like oh can I like

[28:47] be with myself without being lost in

[28:49] myself emotionally? Can I allow my

[28:51] emotions without trying to fix my

[28:52] emotions without getting lost in them?

[28:54] And so the skill that I learned

[28:56] externally with others

[28:59] became like

[29:01] one of the greatest gifts for my own

[29:03] self-recognition or self-realization is

[29:06] that deep empathy.

[29:08] And and I noticed that they went right

[29:09] along with each other. The [music] less

[29:11] I was able to the less I was overwhelmed

[29:13] by other people the less I was

[29:14] overwhelmed by myself and vice versa.

[29:16] >> Absolutely.

JH
Artist
Joe Hudson

Watch more from Joe Hudson on YouTube.

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EmpathyHighly-sensitive-personPorousnessEmotional-boundariesEmotional-attunement

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Joe Hudson defines empathy as the capacity to recognize and understand what another person is feeling, and he says he would go further and feel it too. Sensitivity is how much of that signal you actually take in, and porousness is when you take it in and mistake it for your own. He treats them as distinct things that people often confuse.
Hudson suggests asking yourself directly, "Is this thing that I'm feeling, is it mine or is it somebody else's?" He admits there is no clean way to verify the answer, but says an answer almost always comes when people pause and ask. Making the question a regular habit, especially in emotionally charged moments, helps you notice when you have absorbed someone else's emotion.
Hudson says sensitive, empathetic people often take in more of the emotional environment and need more recovery time, more alone time, and more distance from big, messy group emotions. They also tend to feel the fear or hidden feeling underneath what someone displays, and misfile it as their own. Without distinguishing ownership, that constant intake becomes exhausting.
Hudson says that in his observation, many people with a lot of empathy had abuse or trauma in childhood. He describes learning to quickly read his father's mood when he came home upset so he would know how to stay safe. He notes that for those who were also highly sensitive and abused, reading others' feelings can become a near-constant survival process.
Hudson's first advice is to stop seeing sensitivity as a problem. He describes it as a feature with real benefits, such as reading emotional state from tone of voice, remembering stories well, and being sensitive to music, alongside real costs like overwhelm in noisy settings. The goal is to manage it, not to eliminate it.
These are two resources linked from Joe Hudson's YouTube video for people who feel a lot and find it wearing. The Connection Course is available at yt.artofaccomplishment.com/empathy, and the Connection Challenge at yt.artofaccomplishment.com/connection-challenge-empathy. They are offered by Art of Accomplishment, Hudson's coaching organization.

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