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Inspiration

Ecosystemic Attunement in Trauma Healing: Core Principles

Thomas Hübl
Thomas Hübl
Oct 18, 2026
読了 約8分

出典:Thomas Hübl

視聴 · 6

In an online teaching for healing practitioners, published October 18, 2026, the facilitator Thomas Hübl makes a case that trauma work cannot stop at the individual in the chair. He argues that a symptom is often a survival strategy that once fit its original system, that practitioners can learn to sense the ancestral and collective layers of a client's material, and that the healer's own inner awareness is the instrument that makes this possible. Drawing on wisdom traditions and on the discoveries of science, he frames energetic and spiritual attunement as a discipline that complements conventional therapeutic method rather than replacing it. What follows is a close reading of the ideas he laid out in the opening stretch of that hour-long session, along with the five themes the event listed as its focus.

The session opens the way many practitioner gatherings do: a host introduces the speaker, reads a bio, and sets the terms. Anna, moderating, notes that the room is full of people "seeking to refine their attunement to clients," and that these are increasingly complex times to be doing this work. Then she asks Thomas Hübl the question that anchors everything that follows: what does it mean to work with the energetic and spiritual principles of trauma healing, and why does it matter so much right now? He pauses, and the answer comes back with a laugh already in it. "Basically, all of it at once." (Thomas Hübl, October 2026 teaching, 1:47)

読む · 8セクション

What does it mean to work with the energetic principles of trauma healing?

Hübl begins with the healer, not the method. The people drawn to therapy, coaching, facilitation, and conflict resolution, he says, are not usually there because they must be. "We do this because we are passionate about it, not because we have to," he tells the room. (Thomas Hübl, October 2026 teaching, 2:51) That calling, in his account, does two things at once. It asks the practitioner to develop skills: to study, learn methods, and apply them. But it also asks the practitioner to live what the skills point toward.

That distinction is the first principle worth holding onto. A technique can be learned in a weekend. Wholeness cannot. Hübl frames the professional task as becoming whole enough to host other people's fragmentation, and he treats that capacity as something the calling continually asks the practitioner to develop. The difficulties a practitioner meets, from their own trauma history to the ancestral patterns and cultural conditioning they carry, show up as limitations. His suggestion is to take those limitations seriously and work them, so that the healer's energy is expanded and refined over time. He describes that path as moving from learning a method, to crystallizing it, to becoming something like a mentor, and eventually an elder or wisdom keeper. (Thomas Hübl, October 2026 teaching, 3:56)

This is the energetic dimension in its plainest form: the practitioner's own presence is not a neutral container. It is one of the variables in the room.

Why does a defense mechanism look like pathology in one room and wisdom in another?

The most striking idea in the opening portion is a reframing Hübl returns to repeatedly. Consider a jigsaw piece. Taken from the big puzzle where it was cut, it makes complete sense. It fits. Now place that same piece into a different puzzle, one that resembles adult life, a business, or a current family. Suddenly its shape looks strange, because it no longer fits what surrounds it.

Applied to clients, this means that many of the patterns that get labeled as stuck, blocked, or pathological were once the best available solution. "That's why we call it any defense mechanism is a ecosystemic necessity in the system of origin, the family of origin," Hübl says. (Thomas Hübl, October 2026 teaching, 8:02) The child who learned to go quiet, to over-please, or to shut down emotionally was responding intelligently to a particular environment. The strategy only produces symptoms later, when the grown-up moves it into a context that no longer requires it.

Hübl is specific about what this changes for the practitioner. The task is to stop pathologizing those mechanisms and instead reframe them as what he calls ecosystemic intelligence, recognizing where the client came from and why that adaptation was necessary there. He says he has seen this reframing be very powerful in loosening stagnations that look, from the outside, like blocks. The shift is not cosmetic. It alters what the practitioner is looking for: not the flaw in the person, but the logic of the system that once shaped them.

How is ecosystemic attunement different from co-regulation?

Much of the trauma literature now uses attunement to mean co-regulation: when a client is in fight, flight, or freeze, the practitioner's steady nervous system helps bring theirs down. Hübl accepts that this is attunement. But he says it is only one layer, and he asks for more.

The fuller picture has several parts. There is developmental attunement, which means tracking different age levels, since a client's nervous system can respond to the room as if it were a different stage of life. There is ecosystemic attunement, which he distinguishes sharply from understanding the ecosystem intellectually. "There's an intellectual attunement, but then there's an emotional, the physical, the systemic attunement to the ecosystem," he explains. (Thomas Hübl, October 2026 teaching, 10:03) A practitioner can know, as a theory, that families transmit patterns across generations. Attunement means sensing it in the body and in the field of the session.

Hübl describes the nervous system as an instrument that can ping different levels, and his point is that a skilled practitioner learns to hear several of those pitches at once. That is what makes the work more precise: responding to this person, in this developmental moment, inside this larger system.

How do individual, ancestral, collective, and spiritual layers show up together?

The event's published outline names the layers the practitioner is asked to recognize: individual, ancestral, collective, and spiritual. In the opening section, Hübl frames them as nested. An individual sits inside an ancestral system, which sits inside a collective system. Opening that map, he says, gives practitioners more information available at every level they might address. He describes this as especially healing in the deeper training programs he runs, because it lets practitioners see where a client's material is actually coming from rather than treating every difficulty as a private, personal event.

The spiritual dimension, in the outline's framing, connects to the calling itself: the healer as a source of wisdom, creativity, and direction, and a connection to what the event calls the self-healing intelligence within everyone. The excerpt available for this piece does not walk through each layer in detail, so readers who want the full treatment of how Hübl moves between them should watch the complete recording.

How do you tell your own material from your client's?

This is the question with the highest stakes for practitioners, and the event's outline makes it a stated goal: greater awareness of one's own body, emotions, mind, and energy helps distinguish one's own material from a client's. The same outline says a practitioner can sometimes sense or know more about a client than they can consciously explain, and that the work includes learning how to discern and trust that information.

The principle here follows from everything above. If a practitioner's own unintegrated history is running in the background, the client's patterns will be misread through it. Refined awareness, presence, and attunement are what make the sorting possible. Hübl's language throughout points to a practice of noticing, not a formula for diagnosis.

Why does Thomas Hübl say this matters right now?

Return to his opening answer: "Basically, all of it at once." It is a joke, but it is also a compact thesis. The calling, the training, the integration of energy, and the ecosystemic map are not separate projects. They are one movement, and the complexity of the present, which Anna names in her introduction, is the pressure that makes all of them urgent. Practitioners are meeting clients whose distress is shaped by systems far larger than their own biographies, and the tools that address only the individual are no longer enough.

What is The Inner Science of Healing, and how does it fit?

Near the close of the session, Anna announces that Hübl's five-month live online intensive, The Inner Science of Healing, is open for enrollment and begins November 15. Details were shared at the end of the event and are linked from the event page. The training is aimed at healing professionals who want to refine the attunement and ecosystemic understanding described above. Readers who want to hear the full set of ideas in Hübl's own words, including the material not covered in the opening excerpt, can register for the free recording through the link in the event description.

Where to go from here

If the reframing of defense mechanisms as ecosystemic intelligence is new to you, start there. Think of one pattern in your own practice that you have been tempted to call a block, and ask what system it once fit. Then watch the full teaching to hear how Hübl moves from that idea into developmental attunement, the nested layers of individual, ancestral, and collective trauma, and the question of distinguishing your material from your client's. The free recording and the details of The Inner Science of Healing are available at innerscienceofhealing.com. Hübl's broader work is at thomashuebl.com.

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Transcript

[0:01] So, yeah, welcome again. We've heard

[0:04] from many healing practitioners seeking

[0:06] to refine their attunement to clients

[0:08] and more deeply understand the

[0:11] individual, ancestral, and collective

[0:13] dimensions of trauma healing as we

[0:15] navigate these increasingly complex

[0:17] times alongside our clients.

[0:20] That's why we're really excited to

[0:21] announce at Thomas Hübl's new 5-month

[0:23] live online intensive, The Inner Science

[0:26] of Healing.

[0:27] So, we'll share more about this new

[0:29] practitioner training at the end of this

[0:31] event, but enrollment is now open. The

[0:34] course begins November 15th. If you're

[0:37] ready to learn more, you can click your

[0:38] e- check your email uh now for details

[0:41] or visit the link in the chat.

[0:43] And for any of you who are new to Thomas

[0:46] and his work, he is a renowned teacher,

[0:49] author, and international facilitator

[0:52] who has been leading large-scale events

[0:54] and courses for over 20 years on the

[0:56] healing of collective trauma.

[0:58] Thomas works within the complexity of

[1:01] systems and cultural change, integrating

[1:04] the core insights of the great wisdom

[1:05] traditions and mysticism with the

[1:07] discoveries of science.

[1:10] Welcome, Thomas.

[1:14] >> Thank you, Anna. Happy to be here with

[1:16] you.

[1:16] >> Yeah.

[1:17] >> With everybody.

[1:18] >> Yeah.

[1:20] Okay, so we're going to be getting to as

[1:21] many of your questions, everybody, as we

[1:23] can. And I'd love to start by asking

[1:26] you, Thomas, to share what it means to

[1:29] work with the energetic and spiritual

[1:31] principles of trauma healing and how

[1:33] this complements more traditional

[1:35] therapeutic models. And how can healing

[1:37] practitioners integrate these elements

[1:40] into their work with clients? Also, why

[1:42] is this so important right now as we are

[1:44] facing the challenges today?

[1:47] >> Basically, all of it at once.

[1:48] >> Yeah, [laughter]

[1:50] perfect.

[1:53] >> Um so, yes. So, let's start. Um

[1:57] first of all, I think that um

[2:00] you know, there are thousands of years

[2:02] of wisdom traditions or healing

[2:05] traditions that precede our time and

[2:09] that that are living within us. And of

[2:11] course, we find a specific expression, a

[2:14] scientific expression. But many of the

[2:17] things that we are thinking, somebody

[2:19] thought already about. Uh, and so we are

[2:23] like on the

[2:25] sitting on the shoulders of the giant.

[2:27] And that's always like a lovely humility

[2:30] to bring. And that a lot of a lot of

[2:33] people around the world that felt like a

[2:36] similar calling

[2:38] as we do.

[2:40] Everybody who feels drawn to healing,

[2:43] feels drawn to therapy and coaching and

[2:46] facilitation and conflict resolution

[2:49] like feels something. We do this because

[2:51] we are passionate about it, not because

[2:53] we have to.

[2:54] We do it because we we feel Yeah,

[2:58] healing healing is deeply

[3:01] infused

[3:03] into like into our soul.

[3:06] And that calling, I think is so

[3:08] beautiful. There's some something very

[3:11] elegant. Every time I talk about this,

[3:13] like I feel so passionate about the

[3:15] what deeply calls us into into this kind

[3:19] of

[3:20] work, what however we framed it.

[3:24] And and that

[3:26] that calling, I think gives us on the

[3:29] one hand the possibility to develop

[3:31] skills and you know, learn, study, have

[3:35] knowledge and develop skills, how to

[3:38] apply those in different techniques and

[3:40] methods and therapy methods.

[3:43] But it also calls us to live it.

[3:46] It's not enough just to to have the

[3:49] skills because what we're looking at is

[3:52] how we become the wholeness

[3:56] how we become whole

[3:58] to host fragmentation.

[4:02] And that that capacity to become more

[4:05] whole

[4:06] is that our own healing and our own

[4:08] calling

[4:11] constantly asks us to develop.

[4:14] And that development is trustworthy.

[4:17] And we see that development in our own

[4:19] personal lives, obviously, but it's

[4:22] being accelerated by the professional

[4:25] life that we all live. And all the

[4:27] issues that show up, all the challenges,

[4:29] all the difficulties we experience, if

[4:31] we see those as teachers, so we more and

[4:34] more develop wholeness that gives more

[4:37] and more people the chance to

[4:40] be hosted in their fragmentation.

[4:44] And that's that principle of

[4:45] interdependence, I think, is so

[4:47] important in any kind of healing work.

[4:51] And that's what I'm very interested in.

[4:54] So, it's the calling, it's the training

[4:56] and integration work because we need

[4:58] training, refine our skills, and we need

[5:01] to integrate our energy because that's

[5:03] where we hit difficulties in ourselves,

[5:05] our own trauma history, our own

[5:07] ancestral trauma history, the cultural

[5:11] conditioning [snorts] that we are part

[5:12] of. All of that shows up sometimes as

[5:15] limitations.

[5:17] And when we take that seriously and we

[5:20] work it, so we continuously expand and

[5:23] refine our energy.

[5:25] And that is, I think, the beauty of

[5:28] learning a method

[5:30] crystallizing it

[5:32] becoming like a mentor and eventually

[5:36] becoming an elder

[5:38] in society, like a wisdom keeper.

[5:41] And that that journey, I think, is is

[5:44] within the the calling, the archetypal

[5:47] path of a of a healer. And I think

[5:50] that's that's very very powerful. And

[5:52] this And the second thing is that

[5:55] I think we see more and more how

[5:58] refining our own

[6:01] inner experience and our own awareness

[6:04] is the way how we meet our client more

[6:07] and more specifically or more and more

[6:10] attuned.

[6:12] And with the higher fluidity in our own

[6:16] relational capacity. And that is true

[6:18] for the individual development of our

[6:20] clients, but it's also true in the

[6:22] ancestral develop intergenerational

[6:25] development of our clients, so where our

[6:27] clients come from. The systemic

[6:30] dimension and of course the collective.

[6:33] So what we also do is like how how we

[6:35] open the map

[6:37] that nested

[6:39] systems like an individual

[6:42] in an ancestral

[6:44] system in a collective system.

[6:46] And that that I find that in in our

[6:48] trainings and deeper training programs

[6:50] deeply healing when we can open up that

[6:53] map and and have more

[6:56] more information available for any level

[7:00] here that we address.

[7:03] So yeah, so that's maybe we zoom in more

[7:05] specifically, but for the beginning

[7:10] maybe we we zoom in

[7:13] with different questions into some of

[7:15] these aspects.

[7:22] >> Great. Thank you, Thomas.

[7:25] Um

[7:26] So yeah, we can start with some

[7:29] questions and maybe

[7:31] even if you can speak a little bit more

[7:33] to this eco-systemic

[7:36] um aspect of healing

[7:38] and what what you mean by that and how

[7:42] we start to work with that and attune

[7:44] with that.

[7:45] >> Mhm.

[7:47] So,

[7:48] let's say

[7:50] like

[7:51] individual development looks like, okay,

[7:54] this is the person that shows up in our

[7:56] group, so it shows up in the office of

[7:58] the therapist,

[7:59] and and all the internal unintegrated

[8:02] processes seem like in the person. But,

[8:05] in a way, those unintegrated aspects is

[8:08] like in a jigsaw puzzle. If you take

[8:10] take it from the original jigsaw puzzle,

[8:13] the big puzzle, you take one puzzle

[8:15] piece, in the puzzle it makes complete

[8:17] sense. It fits

[8:20] completely. That's why we call it any

[8:22] defense mechanism is a

[8:25] is an ecosystemic necessity

[8:29] in the system of origin, the family of

[8:31] origin, for example.

[8:33] But, if you take that jigsaw puzzle and

[8:35] you put it into complete in a different

[8:38] puzzle, which is our life today or us as

[8:41] a

[8:43] in our business or in our family, so

[8:46] then it certain things look strange

[8:48] because they don't fit.

[8:50] And so,

[8:51] our attunement

[8:53] as professionals, how to hold our

[8:57] clients not only as a person, but be

[9:00] ecosystemically attuned, which is

[9:02] different from understanding the

[9:04] ecosystem intellectually.

[9:06] So, there's an intellectual attunement,

[9:09] but then there's an emotional, the

[9:10] physical, the systemic attunement to the

[9:13] ecosystem.

[9:15] I have seen as very, very powerful in

[9:18] unlocking

[9:20] certain stagnations or what's perceived

[9:23] as stagnations or blocks,

[9:26] and it helps us to beautifully reframe

[9:31] instead of pathologizing those

[9:33] mechanisms to reframe those as

[9:36] ecosystemic intelligence where we come

[9:38] from cuz in that system that defense was

[9:41] absolutely necessary.

[9:44] Or the highest possibility we could

[9:46] could implement.

[9:48] But of course when we go into our life

[9:50] today as grown-ups it's it creates all

[9:52] kinds of symptoms.

[9:54] And so that that we that the tune and

[9:57] this to our clients and to developmental

[10:00] processes in our clients.

[10:03] And it's and that's more than

[10:05] coregulation.

[10:07] Cuz some people understand attunement as

[10:10] coregulation. So when somebody is

[10:11] stressed and expresses

[10:15] fight, flight, freeze symptoms that

[10:17] attunement helps us to down regulate

[10:20] that stress. So that is attunement, but

[10:23] we are also speaking about developmental

[10:25] attunement. So like different age levels

[10:29] and how our nervous system is like an

[10:31] instrument and can ping different levels

[10:34] of development of our clients. So I I

[10:37] I relate to the person

[10:40] and to the specificity of their process

[10:42] that creates the symptoms.

[10:44] And on the other hand of course when we

[10:46] begin to hold energetically the family

[10:50] system or whatever was the

[10:53] the system of origin where those

[10:55] mechanisms arose or the ancestral system

[10:59] then it's much easier to work with those

[11:01] mechanisms in the person today. They get

[11:04] much more or much easier unlocked.

[11:08] And and that I think is a very powerful

[11:11] display

[11:13] where we transcend the trauma symptoms

[11:15] of sep- separation

[11:19] like that an individual is not separate,

[11:21] but an individual is always

[11:23] interdependent with within its

[11:25] ecosystem.

[11:27] And I think that it allows us much more

[11:30] space, much more data that's included in

[11:33] the process work. It but it's something

[11:35] we need to train because it doesn't just

[11:39] or not always come easy.

[11:42] Uh so it we need to train it so that our

[11:45] nervous system is also trained and

[11:48] integrated enough to be precisely

[11:51] attuned because otherwise we imagine

[11:54] things, we project things, we like we So

[11:57] we need to

[11:58] uh practice that but I think that goes a

[12:01] long way. And the same is for a tune

[12:03] when we facilitate groups for everybody

[12:05] who works with groups or teams or

[12:08] even conflict resolution, how

[12:11] much space we can provide and how

[12:13] attuned we are to what's in the room

[12:16] helps to create a bigger space.

[12:19] And we all know that

[12:22] real witnessing, energetic witnessing,

[12:24] not disconnected intellectual listening,

[12:28] but real attuned witnessing is the most

[12:32] subtle form of intervention.

[12:35] And I believe that witnessing goes

[12:37] through space and time.

[12:40] So it transcends like our current notion

[12:43] of space-time

[12:44] and hence it it helps us to integrate

[12:49] what we call the past

[12:51] uh

[12:52] in a much stronger way.

[12:55] So yeah, so that is all exciting.

[12:57] And that is I think a confluence of

[13:01] what science comes up with more and more

[13:03] through neuroscience and trauma science

[13:06] and quantum mechanics and how how the

[13:09] wisdom traditions approach this.

[13:12] There's an ancient language for these

[13:13] things and there's a modern language and

[13:16] then there is a negotiation between

[13:18] those.

[13:20] Yeah, so that's what's what we mean with

[13:23] ecosystemic attunement.

[13:25] And of course our spiritual practice as

[13:28] practitioners, I think is also very

[13:30] important because if spirituality is not

[13:32] used as a bypass,

[13:35] then

[13:36] mindfulness practices, embodiment

[13:38] practices, deeper deeper alignment

[13:41] practices in the practitioner

[13:44] are very powerful resources that we can

[13:47] provide to our clients. And

[13:50] we are also more attuned to these

[13:53] aspects in our clients.

[13:55] And uh so the spiritual practice holds a

[13:58] lot of resourcing

[14:01] and also clarity and capabilities to

[14:05] clarify our own process and also to

[14:09] contemplate our clients or groups in a

[14:12] different way. So it creates more

[14:14] clarity.

[14:15] When something is unclear, there are

[14:17] many tools how to clarify that

[14:20] unclearity

[14:21] in ourselves, with others, with peers,

[14:23] with supervisors, of course.

[14:25] And our spiritual practice, I think is a

[14:27] powerful is a powerful um

[14:31] resource to because we want to do this

[14:35] work

[14:37] as long as we feel passionate about it.

[14:39] And if that's for decades, we want to

[14:41] feel refreshed.

[14:43] We want to feel that um

[14:46] we grow constantly through our client

[14:50] work. We become wiser. Hence, it's

[14:53] actually more and more easy

[14:55] even though

[14:57] the times seem to be more and more

[14:59] complex.

[15:01] So it's it's less of a

[15:04] a drain or an effort and it's becomes

[15:07] easier and easier. It flows more through

[15:09] us.

[15:10] And I think that also increases our

[15:12] impact on

[15:14] clients or groups or systems.

[15:20] >> Yeah, this is great, Thomas. I I kind of

[15:23] want to highlight some of what you're

[15:25] saying again and um that like through

[15:28] our through our spiritual practice,

[15:30] through our integration work, when we

[15:32] have more space inside, when we sit with

[15:34] somebody,

[15:35] and then we learn through training it to

[15:38] really sense what's the intelligence in

[15:40] what they're doing. We start to see,

[15:42] "Ah, this is intelligent in some

[15:44] ecosystem." And we start to actually not

[15:46] think about, but really feel the

[15:48] environment around them or

[15:51] many layers of that. You might just

[15:52] notice, "Oh, like my client doesn't

[15:55] really share emotional information

[15:57] much." And then you start to sense, "Oh,

[15:59] there wasn't that exchange in their

[16:01] family."

[16:02] Or it was a cold you feel I was a kind

[16:04] of cold environment and they're alone,

[16:06] right? And then you become

[16:08] a bit of the ecosystemic remedy today

[16:11] for that part. And that deep attunement,

[16:13] I love what you say that we can witness

[16:15] across space and time.

[16:17] And that through really practicing this,

[16:19] we can really support the client. Also

[16:21] not to go into their head and like, "Oh,

[16:23] I know you're here with me." Yes, but

[16:25] they can't feel it at that part. And so

[16:27] this this real deep practice of bringing

[16:30] awareness and a warm environment, for

[16:32] example, where there never was one. And

[16:34] that then their system

[16:36] can start to take another step cuz it

[16:38] starts to recognize, "Ah, somebody is

[16:40] finally here in this young part." And so

[16:42] I just wanted to highlight the beauty of

[16:44] also this ecosystemic sensing, which I

[16:46] think does take training. And that we

[16:49] can get more deeply into this in the

[16:51] course as well. It's a it's like a

[16:52] different way of attuning and sensing

[16:54] the environment and and the relief of I

[16:57] I don't need to get my client anywhere.

[16:59] We're not going somewhere. I'm with the

[17:01] intelligence in their system, which will

[17:03] continue to operate. And it will operate

[17:06] in this moment when the system senses

[17:08] something new is happening. So I just

[17:10] want to add

[17:11] >> That's beautiful. Yeah, and what you

[17:12] just said is not us us having the

[17:16] like where we

[17:18] the end point in mind, but really being

[17:21] able to listen to the unfolding

[17:25] of the original intelligence. And that

[17:27] is a skill, like to really be dialed

[17:30] into like our clients' intelligence and

[17:33] see how

[17:35] by bringing more attention to the

[17:37] inhibitions of the development, like how

[17:40] the

[17:41] the the intelligence is unfolding by

[17:43] itself.

[17:45] And

[17:46] I think

[17:48] many people know this phenomenon that

[17:52] um

[17:54] that sometimes we spontaneously say

[17:57] something, or suddenly we have an

[17:59] insight and we say it, and then we see,

[18:01] well, that really touches the point. And

[18:04] it was not just a premeditated

[18:06] or knowing, I read this in a book and

[18:09] now I'm bringing it into the session.

[18:11] It's like suddenly you know something,

[18:15] and when you say it, it's it kind of

[18:18] meets exactly what's happening right

[18:20] now. And that openness is is a spiritual

[18:24] function.

[18:26] So, that's part of of our own inner

[18:28] alignment, and we can train that to

[18:31] happen more and more often because we

[18:34] allow, we open ourselves up to this

[18:38] inner stream of knowing.

[18:40] And that's that's different to

[18:42] what I imagine, like there's imagination

[18:45] and there's alignment.

[18:47] Imagination is what I might project

[18:49] outwards, but

[18:51] um this alignment is connected to the

[18:54] current flow of the process.

[18:57] And I think that's also So, there's the

[18:59] space, there's the presencing, there is

[19:02] this like a much deeper regulation of

[19:04] our own nervous system as facilitators

[19:07] that invites our clients into a deeper

[19:11] regulation capacity, but then there is

[19:14] um

[19:15] this kind of

[19:16] deeper attuned knowing

[19:19] and sensing and seeing that then becomes

[19:22] like um

[19:23] a more and more available function. From

[19:26] it happening from time to time, it

[19:28] actually becomes like a stream.

[19:31] And that like a stream of consciousness.

[19:33] And I think that's a very powerful

[19:35] function that the wisdom traditions talk

[19:37] a lot about.

[19:38] >> Mhm.

[19:40] There's actually Thomas a question that

[19:42] came in that's very related to this from

[19:44] the um

[19:46] Someone asked when we when we sense

[19:47] something in a client before they can

[19:49] name it, before they are aware and can

[19:52] name it, how do we discern whether that

[19:54] knowing comes from this attunement to

[19:56] their individual ancestral or collective

[19:58] experience or from our own spiritual

[20:01] attunement as you're saying our channel

[20:03] or it's inherited memory or projection

[20:05] in us. And how can we offer what we

[20:07] sense without making our spiritual

[20:09] knowing more authoritative than the

[20:11] client's own truth?

[20:13] >> Yeah, that's

[20:15] I think that's a fine point because

[20:18] first of all

[20:19] for many of us it also it it is like a

[20:22] training and it also needs even if we

[20:25] work professionally already for some

[20:27] years, like it's good to have this for

[20:29] this kind of attunement work practice

[20:32] circles with like-minded people where we

[20:35] can train this

[20:37] and and experiment with it and get

[20:40] reflections

[20:41] so that we can learn that. So on the one

[20:44] hand because we need to develop a sense

[20:47] there is a sense when we feel it comes

[20:50] from from this core and there's a

[20:52] different sense when we start to

[20:55] interpret,

[20:57] to imagine and also get get triggered in

[21:01] subtle ways so that we begin to project

[21:03] our own information onto our clients.

[21:07] And so there there inner states when we

[21:09] know oh when I am in this inner state

[21:12] the likelihood that it's it's my own

[21:14] projection is very low.

[21:17] And that I notice when I get triggered I

[21:19] realize this and and I take this in

[21:22] account responsibly in in my client

[21:25] interactions.

[21:26] Or as a group facilitator. And if

[21:29] but there are there is a sense when when

[21:33] we feel there is this kind of inner

[21:35] freedom and this inner spaciousness or

[21:37] presence where information is is just

[21:41] arising and it doesn't have a pressure

[21:43] it doesn't have a it doesn't have

[21:45] certain qualities that show us

[21:48] So that's the on the one hand.

[21:49] Even though we

[21:52] know certain things doesn't mean we

[21:55] always

[21:56] have to say it.

[21:58] You know it's like it's like I can know

[22:00] things or I can see things and then

[22:03] through articulate or skillful questions

[22:06] like see if if that knowing arises by

[22:09] itself.

[22:11] But sometimes it's also important to

[22:13] bring that information in and that is

[22:15] that is determined by the relationship.

[22:18] That isn't there's not a rule here you

[22:20] do it like this and here you do it like

[22:22] that there is like um

[22:24] the relationship determines what's

[22:26] actually needed.

[22:28] And and the the state of the process

[22:30] determines that.

[22:32] And so I think

[22:34] uh

[22:35] that is a very complex question but it's

[22:37] a very interesting question and I and I

[22:40] think we're all here to refine this more

[22:42] and more and more and to be able to

[22:44] notice

[22:46] when we hit something in ourselves that

[22:49] then becomes like is a filter between us

[22:52] and our clients or the groups or when

[22:54] there is this

[22:56] attunement. And the second part is that

[22:59] often like what we observe very often is

[23:01] that there is a certain level of

[23:04] achievement. They often say it's like

[23:05] you take your USB plug and you put it

[23:08] into the USB port of your client. Then

[23:10] you perceive information, but then you

[23:13] unplug it, you take it back into your

[23:15] own hard disk, and then you interpret it

[23:18] somehow.

[23:19] But that's different from streaming.

[23:22] And

[23:23] real relational connection is like a

[23:26] streaming.

[23:30] And whenever trauma comes into play, we

[23:32] see how the relational space becomes

[23:35] fragmented or limited.

[23:38] And so, even if that happens from a

[23:41] client, if if the streaming ability is

[23:44] there is open to host this,

[23:46] then

[23:47] it's it's wonderful. But if we get

[23:49] subtly triggered

[23:51] by by that, then we need to look at

[23:53] ourselves. And that's also because there

[23:55] are other questions that came in is

[23:58] about this

[23:59] notion of taking on

[24:02] other people's energy.

[24:04] And I think this is really something to

[24:07] look at because

[24:09] I don't think we are taking on other

[24:11] people's energy.

[24:13] I think like often

[24:15] other people's process

[24:18] has a resonance in our own process. And

[24:22] when we walk away

[24:24] from that session or group session, then

[24:27] we feel like a residue

[24:29] in in in us.

[24:32] But it's not that we took on the energy

[24:34] of another person. That's That we we are

[24:37] not fully aware of how that resonance

[24:39] also lives in us.

[24:41] And I think this is difficult because

[24:43] sometimes people try to constantly clean

[24:45] themselves from the energy of the

[24:46] client, but that stays like a perpetual

[24:49] process.

[24:50] Instead of integrating,

[24:52] looking what do I need, sitting with

[24:54] myself, clarifying this, journaling,

[24:57] having peer-to-peer conversations,

[25:00] having a supervision, what helps me to

[25:03] integrate that part of myself so that my

[25:06] energy continuously grows and those

[25:09] phenomenas

[25:11] subside at least on that level.

[25:16] Because then it might be that on a

[25:17] larger level like in ancestral systems

[25:20] or in the collective systems if you work

[25:23] with collective I don't know, the

[25:25] colonial wounds, racism, gender

[25:28] violence. Like they're big big

[25:30] collective

[25:32] uh wounds around the world that that

[25:36] many of us share. So, our own

[25:39] clearing process in our own

[25:42] uh life information of course will bring

[25:46] up different levels of it. But if I have

[25:48] a practice how to look at this

[25:51] differently, then it's not like how do I

[25:54] protect myself from my client's energy?

[25:56] How do I integrate my own energy so that

[25:59] I can be more and more related without

[26:01] feeling any side effects

[26:05] in in the process. And I think that

[26:07] that's an important reframing

[26:09] because otherwise we stay often in this

[26:13] what I think not very helpful

[26:16] framing of taking on energy and that I

[26:21] need to protect myself against something

[26:22] that comes from the outside.

[26:25] So, I think that's a that's a very

[26:27] important question, too.

[26:30] And and it's beautiful because like this

[26:32] we just grow and then these things have

[26:33] less and less impact. It's it we feel

[26:36] more and more free and we don't take

[26:39] uh

[26:40] stuff with us.

[26:42] Yeah.

[26:45] >> Yeah, this is a really important topic

[26:47] as well. And just on that, maybe you

[26:49] could speak a little bit. We have many

[26:50] other questions, but this with our

[26:53] energy being more and more free, I how

[26:55] our energy becomes in a way bigger or to

[26:59] how we bring wholeness to fragmentation.

[27:02] You mentioned that in your beginning

[27:04] talk, but what is this process of

[27:06] becoming bigger and bringing wholeness

[27:09] to the fragmented parts? You're

[27:10] beginning to mention a way in which that

[27:12] can happen that we become the ecosystem

[27:15] that can hold the fragmentation. But can

[27:17] you say a bit more about that?

[27:19] >> Yeah, on the one hand like

[27:21] if and like if you take this title of

[27:24] healer, that speaks for many

[27:26] professions. They're like when when we

[27:28] interact with client or patients or

[27:30] groups or systems like in the healing

[27:33] because we actually the beauty I think

[27:36] the beauty is

[27:38] that this calling

[27:40] is also

[27:43] us being part of the self-healing

[27:46] mechanism

[27:48] of life.

[27:49] Everybody who feels a calling to

[27:53] to healing

[27:56] is part of the self-healing mechanism of

[27:58] life

[27:59] or the divine principle of grace.

[28:03] It's grace.

[28:04] And there's a beauty to it. Like there's

[28:06] like a very touching

[28:09] quality to

[28:12] to the humility to walk the path of

[28:15] healing

[28:17] and and and be part of how the living

[28:21] system wants to heal itself.

[28:25] And so everybody who develops skills in

[28:28] that direction is part of the conduit

[28:31] for that to happen. And I think that's

[28:33] super elegant. So we are like if we come

[28:37] into life with that intelligence, then

[28:39] we carry

[28:41] that part and our life becomes an

[28:43] expression of healing, self-healing of

[28:45] this entire living system. And we do it

[28:48] in a certain way, but we all contribute

[28:51] in a way for to the system's growth. Um

[28:55] And so,

[28:57] with it comes that in our own private

[29:00] life, of course, in our own

[29:02] relationships with our children, with

[29:04] our

[29:05] with our personal dimension, and

[29:07] in our professional dimension, so we

[29:10] reach a certain level that we can

[29:11] provide that professional space.

[29:15] But still, many of our clients will play

[29:17] back

[29:18] aspects

[29:20] that help us to to see ourselves more

[29:22] clearly and to grow. So, we grow

[29:25] privately, we grow professionally, and

[29:28] we mature

[29:30] in our own information, and the more we

[29:33] mature, the more different types of

[29:36] clients or patients we can host

[29:39] in a fluid way.

[29:41] And so, in a way, we become wiser

[29:46] as we go along

[29:48] because more of the world can mirror

[29:50] itself through us or in us.

[29:53] And that that is very beautiful. So,

[29:55] there is an energetic flow

[29:57] because we feel it when we are in a

[29:58] situation, let's say we we facilitate a

[30:01] group process and something feels a bit

[30:03] challenging, then we feel a great

[30:05] stress, so we know, "Oh,

[30:07] there's a point for me to look at." If I

[30:09] look at it and open it,

[30:11] I I upgrade my internal operating

[30:15] system, which

[30:17] is responsible because I'm not

[30:19] recreating the same thing again.

[30:22] And so, I really live then

[30:27] what

[30:29] is in the work with my clients

[30:32] as well.

[30:35] So, it's not just

[30:36] what I'm saying is like that inner

[30:38] maturation

[30:40] is also the work. It's not

[30:43] also there like I do the work and also

[30:46] I'm developing. No,

[30:48] my own development makes my words

[30:50] credible.

[30:53] Because that is in every word that I

[30:55] speak, my whole development is part of

[30:58] it.

[30:59] And so when I talk to my clients about

[31:01] development or growth or integration or

[31:04] healing,

[31:06] then my life is the same. So, the word

[31:09] and my life is one. It's authentic.

[31:14] And and that is I think what that is

[31:18] what really does the work.

[31:20] Is is that unification inside or that

[31:22] alignment.

[31:24] And I think many people are looking for

[31:27] a disalignment.

[31:30] Consciously or unconsciously, we are

[31:32] looking for this wholeness.

[31:35] And and so so that I think that is

[31:38] really beautiful and how that helps our

[31:41] clients to grow, but it also helps us to

[31:44] grow. And if we can

[31:46] see that with humility, then then it's

[31:49] just a beautiful

[31:51] that path is really beautiful.

[31:58] >> That's good. There's so many great

[32:00] questions coming in related to all of

[32:02] this too. And maybe just a little bit

[32:04] more on Gabriella says, "Dear Thomas, a

[32:07] question that sometimes pops up in my

[32:09] mind is how can I host a space for the

[32:11] fragmentation of my clients if I still

[32:14] experience fragmentation in myself? I'm

[32:17] curious on your perspective on that."

[32:19] And I just like to add one other note

[32:21] also to what you were just saying when

[32:23] you say my own development makes my

[32:25] words credible.

[32:27] Um

[32:28] just

[32:29] that that's a developmental process and

[32:31] also a spiritual process. And maybe just

[32:34] >> Mhm.

[32:35] >> to speak to that also and then this how

[32:37] do I host space for fragmentation if I

[32:39] still experience it myself. Yeah.

[32:41] >> Yeah, that's beautiful because it's it's

[32:44] we are not looking for perfection.

[32:48] We are looking for the authenticity that

[32:50] of course all of us carry some level of

[32:54] inner fragmentation or shadow inside.

[32:57] And

[32:58] and from a certain level of maturity

[33:02] we can provide a space for others like

[33:05] to professional work.

[33:07] And at the same time, the work's always

[33:10] going to complete us, too.

[33:12] Complete us means show us more and more

[33:16] and more of our own work. So, step by

[33:18] step we also become more whole.

[33:22] And so, from the moment that we can that

[33:25] we are more aware of our inner

[33:26] fragmentation and that we are committed

[33:29] to the inner work that's needed to

[33:33] continuously grow

[33:35] it's being held in responsibility.

[33:38] Responsible means that I'm able to

[33:41] respond to that situation. So, when in a

[33:44] client situation there is like some

[33:46] stagnation showing up and I take this

[33:49] into a peer-to-peer or the supervising

[33:52] like a supervision session, then I'm

[33:55] responsible because I create the biggest

[33:57] space around

[33:59] that which

[34:01] is entangled.

[34:04] And when that entanglement gets

[34:06] resolved, both the profession, whatever

[34:09] therapist or coach, whatever

[34:11] facilitator, plus the clients or the

[34:13] groups are growing.

[34:15] And if I'm committed and I create myself

[34:17] in my life that system, then of course I

[34:20] will meet my own inner fragmentation

[34:23] along the way because we all carry that

[34:25] inside. That's human. That's part of the

[34:28] birth information we got

[34:30] and our development.

[34:32] and

[34:33] we role model

[34:36] how we live it.

[34:38] And I believe that role modeling is what

[34:41] our clients need to see.

[34:44] That is like it gives us oh

[34:47] it's possible.

[34:50] The impossibility because often where

[34:52] trauma resides, things look impossible.

[34:55] I can't

[34:56] I can't do this.

[34:58] I can't change this. This is

[35:01] kind of carved out of stone in my life.

[35:04] And then

[35:05] I see this

[35:08] possibility

[35:11] in front of me. I see it's possible. And

[35:13] that strengthens the agency

[35:17] of the client as well.

[35:19] So, I think the transmission

[35:22] like the living transmission of

[35:25] being able to do this work and show it

[35:27] works

[35:29] through just our presence in the room.

[35:32] But because we do all this work, that

[35:34] presence sits in the room with our

[35:36] clients. And that transmits a message.

[35:40] It's not just we're not just talking

[35:41] about developing but not developing. We

[35:43] are

[35:44] we are developing.

[35:45] And especially in this time that's why

[35:48] we thought okay

[35:50] this is a time that becomes more and

[35:52] more complex. So, actually the

[35:55] acceleration, the data acceleration in

[35:58] the world needs us

[36:01] to digest more information.

[36:04] This is the time.

[36:06] The complexity of the meta crisis or

[36:09] whatever we want to call it and the data

[36:11] acceleration, AI there's so there's so

[36:14] much happening in our nervous systems

[36:16] that brings up a lot of stuff.

[36:19] The climate crisis, the the biosphere,

[36:22] the data acceleration, so many things

[36:24] are coming up. So much systemic pressure

[36:27] is is bringing up the traumas that

[36:30] reside deep inside of us individually,

[36:32] ancestrally, collectively.

[36:36] And so,

[36:37] we need that function

[36:40] to grow.

[36:42] And then, as we digest the stuff that is

[36:45] coming up, we actually stay up-to-date.

[36:48] If not, we become old.

[36:51] Not integrating the stuff that comes up

[36:54] is is aging.

[36:57] And integrating the stuff that comes up

[36:59] is rejuvination. We stay up-to-date. We

[37:01] stay fresh. Our browser stays fresh.

[37:05] Our nervous system stays updated.

[37:08] And I believe when our nervous systems

[37:10] stay updated, even in the strong

[37:13] acceleration of data,

[37:16] then the rest of our cells in the body

[37:18] also stays more updated.

[37:21] And the parts that are not updating

[37:22] themselves, they they become old.

[37:26] And then we see the effects in our

[37:29] system, in mental health, in physical

[37:31] health, in in in environmental health.

[37:35] We see it. So, I think this is

[37:39] this is what this especially this time

[37:41] asks of us, and that's why the

[37:43] archetypal path of the healer is even

[37:45] more important because these are the

[37:47] people This is the part of the

[37:49] population that most probably has the

[37:52] highest skill level to do that

[37:54] transformation.

[37:56] In ourselves, but with all the people

[37:58] that we touch.

[38:00] And so, I think this is this is actually

[38:03] a very strong calling in this moment,

[38:06] especially in this moment of

[38:07] uncertainty, in this moment of so many

[38:11] also collective

[38:12] collective and individual identity

[38:14] structures that are

[38:17] being deconstructed,

[38:19] um

[38:20] that presence is so valuable.

[38:26] >> Yes, great. Um, there's so many

[38:29] practitioners with great questions on

[38:31] this call. I'm pretty excited about it.

[38:32] Let's see if we can get to a couple

[38:34] more. Inga, you've been speaking a

[38:36] little bit to this, but there's a number

[38:38] of questions coming in about discernment

[38:40] as a practitioner. And Inga brings a

[38:42] question. Thomas, you mentioned that

[38:44] with practice we can recognize an inner

[38:46] state in which projection is very

[38:48] unlikely. How can we actually verify

[38:51] that what we sense about a client is

[38:53] accurate rather than simply feeling

[38:54] certain about it? And how do we ensure

[38:56] that the client's own experience remains

[38:59] the primary authority? And we've seen

[39:00] this versions of this question in many

[39:02] questions like how am I

[39:04] letting the client lead in a way and

[39:06] also discerning the information inside?

[39:11] >> Yeah, it's

[39:12] First of all, in many ways, even if we

[39:15] sense a lot,

[39:17] like it refines our capacity to ask

[39:24] certain questions in a more refined way.

[39:27] So, it's not just about telling people

[39:30] stuff. It's about being more dialed in

[39:35] to

[39:37] ask certain questions in a way that the

[39:40] information can emerge. So, that's one

[39:43] thing. The other thing is it's also that

[39:45] the attunement itself,

[39:48] more precise attunement, offers our

[39:51] client's nervous system a more precise

[39:56] relationship.

[39:58] It's like when you listen to music and

[40:01] the music is kind of a bit fuzzy

[40:05] or hazy

[40:07] or there's a more precise tune.

[40:11] And so,

[40:12] relating to the person as a whole is of

[40:17] course the main relationship, but then

[40:19] being dialed into the parts of our

[40:21] clients where the process is really

[40:23] happening, not just the symptom but the

[40:25] process,

[40:26] that offers a specific relationship. And

[40:29] in that part usually our clients didn't

[40:31] experience specificity.

[40:34] Because their original ecosystem wasn't

[40:36] able to do that. So,

[40:38] if we provide that even without saying

[40:41] anything,

[40:43] just the energetic, the nervous system

[40:45] to nervous system

[40:47] ping, sting, dong, ding, dong. The

[40:50] relational dimension that was absent or

[40:54] was confusing or hurtful

[40:57] is being

[40:59] kind of remodeled through precision.

[41:03] And most of the people in that person's

[41:05] life most probably are not able to do

[41:07] that. And when that happens, it

[41:10] maybe takes a little bit of time, but

[41:12] then it's being recognized as

[41:14] specificity that's why I often say

[41:16] specificity is love.

[41:18] Generalization

[41:21] is not

[41:22] so loving.

[41:24] Cuz it's general, but

[41:25] specifically addressing the person in

[41:28] what is really the need is very loving.

[41:32] Same as if somebody embraces the child

[41:35] that needs now something specific and

[41:38] there's love and care and safety and

[41:41] nourishment,

[41:42] that's loving.

[41:44] And so, often we provide that in a

[41:48] specific way

[41:51] without just telling the client

[41:53] information, that the attunement

[41:57] allows the client to touch deep up to

[41:59] turn on their internal awareness of

[42:03] parts of themselves

[42:05] in by re-owning the part because there

[42:08] is the specificity of the relationship.

[42:11] There's a deeper seeing.

[42:14] And And I simply have seen so many

[42:16] people that just

[42:18] by feeling seen and felt specifically,

[42:23] something opens up by itself. There

[42:26] wasn't even the need to say what I or we

[42:30] see or feel. It It just happens through

[42:33] the specificity. Sometimes it's needed,

[42:36] but it's always the authority, the

[42:39] internal

[42:41] energetics, the core energy of the

[42:42] client that that drives the process.

[42:46] And um

[42:47] And the other part is also

[42:49] the ability to see and feel

[42:53] like how the information of our words

[42:56] land in the relational

[42:59] uh system between us and our clients, us

[43:02] and the group. So, what's really being

[43:04] heard,

[43:05] what hits a defense, what gets rejected.

[43:07] Like Like to

[43:09] this sensitivity to see how deeply

[43:11] information goes in

[43:13] or where it gets blocked. And where it's

[43:15] blocked, the path of life

[43:18] cannot be changed because the feedback

[43:21] of life cannot cannot enter the core

[43:23] stream and lead to like a course

[43:27] correction.

[43:29] And so, that that mechanism is also

[43:32] um

[43:33] very important. And of course, there's

[43:35] so much more, but these are just a few

[43:37] aspects of the

[43:39] of the attunement

[43:42] capabilities.

[43:44] >> And yes, this is so exciting. There's so

[43:47] many more questions that can come from

[43:49] this as well.

[43:50] And um yeah, and just appreciating

[43:52] appreciating also how you've always

[43:54] shared that, you know, we're in an

[43:55] acceleration, we're an ecosystem with

[43:57] the client, and we're surfacing if if

[44:00] Yeah, we're just surfacing the

[44:01] intelligence in the system that we offer

[44:04] it as a possibility, not attached to

[44:06] being right. I think that's interesting

[44:08] when this question comes up like how

[44:10] does the client be remain the authority

[44:12] that we can also check in ourselves if

[44:14] it's an open process. And that relates

[44:17] to one more question. There's very many

[44:19] good ones over coming towards the end

[44:21] here. So maybe just briefly you could

[44:23] answer Veronica is talking about

[44:25] struggling with this sense of

[44:27] responsibility of needing to make

[44:28] something happen for the client. And I'm

[44:31] and she says I'm aware that that gets in

[44:33] the way of me being fully present. I go

[44:35] into my head instead of trusting the

[44:37] process and the client and his or her

[44:39] inner wisdom and healing capacity. And

[44:41] do you have any suggestions for this?

[44:44] >> Yeah, that is beautiful. Like that

[44:47] because all these questions are so

[44:49] important and I think we also need

[44:51] spaces where we can we can really work

[44:55] these questions because once in a

[44:57] professional role, we are often in the

[45:00] role of the one that supposed to know

[45:02] something.

[45:04] And then and then we might hold that

[45:05] back, but sit actually with the tension

[45:08] that creates. And and I think there are

[45:09] two levels. One is

[45:12] how important it is that

[45:16] I know my home.

[45:21] That my home is not defined by my work.

[45:25] That my home is clear to me.

[45:28] And by home, I mean my own individual

[45:31] home, also ancestrally where I come from

[45:34] and where I sit

[45:37] in the mother in Mother Earth.

[45:39] So it's like

[45:41] it's where is my home?

[45:44] And if my home's not fully clear,

[45:47] the

[45:49] my client work starts to serve

[45:52] something. And one expression of this is

[45:55] like a like a professional pressure to

[45:58] do it well. And that's different from

[46:01] the ethical alignment of showing up

[46:03] fully and being responsible. These are

[46:06] two different things. And one is driven

[46:09] by fear, the other one is driven

[46:12] by my integrated self.

[46:15] And so when when I notice that in

[46:17] instead of judging it, I begin to to

[46:20] look at the fears that come up because

[46:23] only because I don't know where is my

[46:26] home, which is also my life battery.

[46:30] My life battery is being charged by the

[46:33] plug-in to the to the root, to the soil.

[46:36] That charges my battery.

[46:39] And plus of course the the the the

[46:41] beauty of the relationships and the

[46:43] spiritual dimension, but there's like my

[46:46] my life battery

[46:48] is in in the groundedness

[46:51] of who I am.

[46:53] And I think we all need to see where

[46:56] this performance pressure or this fear

[46:59] or this um

[47:01] when my clients get more pressure that

[47:04] they need to develop because that says

[47:06] something about me.

[47:08] And if we can discern that and melt that

[47:11] fear,

[47:12] then it it's more and more the

[47:15] kind of the the the inner intelligence

[47:18] that wants to contribute to the growth

[47:21] of other people. But that doesn't put

[47:24] the pressure. That comes out of our

[47:26] inner flow, not out of a pressure or an

[47:29] unintegrated part in myself.

[47:32] And the second thing though is

[47:35] is like the question of time.

[47:39] How long's this going to take?

[47:42] And if

[47:43] if

[47:44] if there's a

[47:46] like or I'm still or when our clients

[47:48] say, I still have that pattern or when

[47:51] we think, oh, we still

[47:54] deal with that.

[47:56] Then we see, oh, we're actually

[47:58] disowning. What do you mean I still

[48:00] deal? Like I'm dealing with it. It's not

[48:02] that I still deal as if it was supposed

[48:05] to be over.

[48:06] It's

[48:07] This is what I'm dealing with.

[48:10] So, if I own it, then it's not still,

[48:12] it's now I'm dealing with it.

[48:15] And

[48:16] and that

[48:17] is like a symptom

[48:20] of

[48:22] that in the traumatic moment

[48:26] the next moment hope is being pushed in

[48:29] the trauma into the future.

[48:32] Because in the traumatic moment the next

[48:34] moment needs to be better than this

[48:36] moment.

[48:38] But in when the when it fixates itself,

[48:42] which I think is one of the biggest

[48:44] pandemics

[48:45] in in the world.

[48:48] That we hope for a better future instead

[48:51] of hope being in the agency to change

[48:54] the world now.

[48:57] Like the the creative impact in the

[48:59] agency

[49:01] is

[49:03] where the integrated hope lies. It's in

[49:05] the present moment, not later.

[49:07] Cuz later

[49:09] disempowers

[49:11] moment. But in the traumatic moment

[49:12] later is an absolutely important

[49:15] defense.

[49:17] And so the the

[49:20] that I

[49:23] also reflect in myself

[49:27] which parts of me

[49:29] live later.

[49:32] Because those parts unconsciously get

[49:34] entangled with my clients

[49:38] hope in the future.

[49:41] And so if when if I don't pathologize

[49:43] that, if I if I really reflect on that

[49:47] and and slowly invite the hope from the

[49:50] future back into the agency

[49:53] It communicates more and more

[49:56] we can do this.

[49:58] It's possible.

[50:00] It's possible, and it's possible here

[50:02] not later.

[50:04] And I think this is a great This is a

[50:07] great exploration

[50:09] because

[50:10] if we collectively

[50:12] because of the trauma that preexists

[50:15] even our lifetime

[50:17] grew up in a society where hope is

[50:20] later, that tomorrow is going to be the

[50:23] salvation

[50:24] then

[50:25] in the present moment we cannot take

[50:28] care of the

[50:30] challenges that we are facing. And we do

[50:32] face challenges at the moment. So

[50:35] we need that agency here.

[50:38] And so this change

[50:41] is also often part of in the hope is in

[50:44] the future that is also part of the

[50:47] pressure on our clients because we are

[50:49] unconsciously entangled with the same

[50:51] thing in our client.

[50:53] And if we open that up it

[50:58] agency is again

[51:00] hope agency in the present moment are

[51:03] not two, are not three.

[51:05] And so that's very powerful.

[51:10] >> Thank you so much, Thomas. I wish we

[51:12] could be in conversation with all the

[51:14] people listening right now, and I can

[51:16] feel the excitement of the healing

[51:18] practitioners like really in all these

[51:20] questions and the maturity of the

[51:21] questions coming in.

[51:23] So luckily we do actually have a course

[51:26] where we can be together, and thank you

[51:27] for responding to that need of so many

[51:30] healing practitioners today to deepen

[51:32] our inner work, and really learn with

[51:34] more expertise how to navigate these

[51:36] multi-dimensional layers of trauma. So

[51:39] So we have this new course, a live

[51:40] online course, The Inner Science of

[51:42] Healing. We'll come back for in a minute

[51:45] to you, Thomas, for one more question,

[51:46] but just for all of us this 5-month

[51:49] intensive begins on November 15th. It

[51:52] includes 10 live sessions, eight live

[51:55] integration sessions, live process work,

[51:59] plus access to Thomas's foundational

[52:01] teachings on the individual, ancestral,

[52:04] and collective frameworks for trauma

[52:05] healing.

[52:06] So, enrollment is going to be open for a

[52:08] limited time. So, if you feel called to

[52:10] explore this deeper architecture of

[52:12] trauma and to practice developing subtle

[52:15] perception and attunement as trainable,

[52:18] reliable skills, then we really

[52:20] encourage you to learn more and enroll.

[52:23] And yeah, I'm excited to be with you all

[52:26] in this and to really hear more of your

[52:28] questions and see how we unfold them

[52:30] over this coming time. And Thomas, if

[52:33] you maybe just want to share a bit more

[52:35] about what's different in this course

[52:38] than things that you've offered before

[52:39] and what you see will be emerging in

[52:42] this particular container.

[52:45] >> Yeah, I mean, of course, this this is

[52:47] going to be a course

[52:49] more more tailored towards

[52:53] professionals, which means we will also

[52:57] start on a different level and also

[53:00] like look at both, like what's driving

[53:03] us, what's the core intelligence, what's

[53:05] the calling, how does how do we refine

[53:08] our own inner world, and a lot about the

[53:11] client work, also a lot about

[53:13] understanding deeper from a professional

[53:15] point of view, the IAC map, why is that

[53:18] important, and how the individual and I

[53:21] stands for individual, A for ancestral,

[53:24] and C for collective, and we call it IAC

[53:28] fluidity or liquefaction.

[53:30] So, how this nested system support each

[53:34] other in the healing work. They're all

[53:36] important, but they're important in a

[53:38] certain sequencing.

[53:40] And if we take those

[53:43] in in account as a system, it's very

[53:47] powerful in the opening of of the

[53:50] healing work. And then of course, I

[53:52] think also the community like when when

[53:55] more and more as when many professionals

[53:57] come together, this is

[53:59] very strong community space, presence in

[54:02] space. We'll have life process work and

[54:04] deconstruct the life process work. We We

[54:07] will have the spiritual dimension. We'll

[54:09] bring in

[54:11] like

[54:12] a lot of ancient wisdom or healing

[54:15] knowledge from the

[54:17] wisdom traditions that I think dialogue

[54:21] with this current leading edge science

[54:25] understanding.

[54:27] And um

[54:29] And then of course, like how do we apply

[54:31] all of this in the in the work and how

[54:34] we We We will do a lot of practices also

[54:38] attunement practices in the in the big

[54:40] space. And so it's going to be a very

[54:42] practical course, but for professionals

[54:45] speaking to the perspective of people

[54:47] who work with clients, groups, conflict

[54:50] resolutions, therapy, coaching,

[54:53] group facilitation.

[54:59] >> Yeah, and yeah, it's been I think it's

[55:01] been

[55:02] almost 7 years since you've offered this

[55:04] particular type of course for healing

[55:06] practitioners. And so it seems like

[55:09] there's been so much developing in that

[55:11] time and that now and always it seems

[55:14] that when we have these courses, there's

[55:16] something that emerges newly through the

[55:19] study together also. So

[55:21] >> Yeah, and it's it's also, you know, we

[55:23] are in a specific time. We also want to

[55:25] include there is this very fast AI

[55:28] development. There are certain There are

[55:30] certain

[55:31] meta crisis aspects that I think are so

[55:34] important for our clients and our also

[55:37] what our clients are dealing with and

[55:39] the population is dealing with.

[55:42] And I think being together also in this

[55:44] specific time, what I said before about

[55:47] this increased need for this digestion

[55:51] process of the past or this integration

[55:53] process,

[55:54] um that's also very exciting for me.

[55:56] What does this mean for now? Like we're

[55:59] living in this phase now because

[56:02] we carry an intelligence that is able to

[56:04] meet it. And how do we meet the

[56:06] challenges now that we go through and

[56:08] our clients go through and the health

[56:10] care system go through. So it's also

[56:13] there's also the systemic aspect for

[56:15] people who work in systems or take more

[56:18] care of systems than

[56:20] and not just individual clients, you

[56:22] know, so it's so it there's a part for

[56:24] the process work with clients, but

[56:26] there's also a part for

[56:28] the systemic uh work and how to upgrade

[56:32] our systems as such. So it's I think

[56:34] it's um

[56:36] it's it's reflects always this

[56:39] interdependence.

[56:42] >> Yeah, I think this is a really Yeah,

[56:44] it's an amazing opportunity like you

[56:46] just said to be in the coming times

[56:48] together and to have people bring their

[56:50] live questions, what's happening and

[56:51] we're getting to discern together how

[56:54] we're upgrading, how we're learning ways

[56:57] of being with what's happening and ways

[56:59] of being with like you said individual

[57:00] clients or systems as well. So yeah, I'm

[57:04] looking really forward to being in the

[57:06] emergent process of this course and and

[57:09] also like we said really learning

[57:11] reliable skills like training like

[57:14] specific ways of training how to do

[57:16] these things cuz sometimes we hear a lot

[57:18] Oh, okay, attunement and witnessing my

[57:20] client and but what does it really mean

[57:22] to practice also the spiritual practice

[57:25] with the um

[57:27] developmental work and all of that

[57:29] bringing that together. Those are

[57:31] practicable skills that we'll get to

[57:33] work on together. So,

[57:34] anything else you'd like to share about

[57:36] that, Thomas, before we close here?

[57:38] >> Yeah, just just I think it's so exciting

[57:40] and also the time that we live in. Like

[57:42] I was just thinking about like AI and

[57:45] how how many people or clients

[57:49] use AI now for like reflections and all

[57:53] this just this the symptoms that that

[57:55] creates and I think it's really exciting

[57:58] to have this leading edge dialogue about

[58:01] how the the biosphere affects us, the

[58:03] technology affects us, the

[58:06] uh social media environment, the wars,

[58:08] the conflicts that are rising and how

[58:11] that affects our individual

[58:12] developmental work with clients and

[58:15] groups. I think that's exciting and and

[58:17] also what you just said at the end like

[58:20] how the spiritual dimension can be

[58:22] supported and is so beneficial as a

[58:25] resource and it also is often used as a

[58:28] bypass

[58:30] to

[58:31] have hope in the future

[58:33] instead of a revelation now.

[58:36] And so, yeah. So, all of this

[58:38] We are very excited about.

[58:41] >> [laughter]

[58:42] >> There's much ahead of us on this path.

[58:45] Thank you so much, Thomas. This is

[58:46] great. Thank you to all of you who are

[58:48] here. It's exciting to feel, you know,

[58:50] all of us that are drawn into the the

[58:52] healing work by life. So, when we come

[58:55] together, a lot a lot can happen. Thank

[58:57] you all so much and um again, we'd love

[59:00] to invite you to join us for this

[59:01] upcoming course, The Inner Science of

[59:03] Healing, that begins on Sunday, November

[59:06] 15th. There's information, I think, in

[59:08] the chat for you to learn more. You can

[59:10] visit the website

[59:11] innerscienceofhealing.com.

[59:14] Or if you're already a member of the

[59:15] Mystic Cafe or a participant in another

[59:18] program with Thomas, check your email

[59:20] for your special link. And we'll also

[59:22] put more another link in the chat here.

[59:25] I just want to thank you all. It's been

[59:27] great to just feel your energy pouring

[59:29] in um and thank you for participating

[59:32] through your presence and your questions

[59:33] and all the things you're working with

[59:36] that are part of this upcoming course as

[59:38] well and we'll cover a lot of those

[59:40] questions in the course and so I'm just

[59:43] encouraging you to visit the website if

[59:45] this um speaks to you. Come be with us

[59:48] in the exploration and thank you so much

[59:50] for being here with us. We'll see you

[59:52] soon.

[1:03:20] >> Mhm.

[1:04:57] >> Mhm.

Thomas Hübl
ArtistThomas Hübl

Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a teacher, author, and facilitator who brings wisdom traditions and science together to work with individual, ancestral, and collective trauma, and has taught…

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Ecosystemic-attunementDefense-mechanismsTrauma-healingCollective-traumaAncestral-trauma

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In this teaching, Thomas Hübl describes ecosystemic attunement as sensing a client's situation emotionally, physically, and systemically, not only understanding the ecosystem intellectually. He distinguishes it from co-regulation, which is calming a client's fight, flight, or freeze response, and treats it as a broader layer that includes developmental and systemic awareness.
Hübl argues that a defense mechanism was an ecosystemic necessity in the system where it formed, such as the family of origin. Like a jigsaw piece that fits its original puzzle, the pattern only looks strange when it is carried into a different context, so practitioners are asked to reframe it rather than pathologize it.
The event outline points to greater awareness of your own body, emotions, mind, and energy as the basis for this distinction. Hübl frames refined awareness, presence, and attunement as the practice that lets practitioners sort their own unintegrated material from what belongs to the client.
The event describes these as layers practitioners should learn to recognize in a client's material. Hübl frames them as nested, with an individual inside an ancestral system inside a collective system, and the spiritual dimension connects to the healer's calling and the self-healing intelligence within people.
It is a five-month live online intensive for healing professionals, announced by Thomas Hübl during the October 2026 teaching. Enrollment was open at the time, and the course was scheduled to begin November 15, with details available through the event link.
When asked why this matters at present, Hübl answered 'Basically, all of it at once,' pointing to the combined pull of the calling, training, energetic integration, and the ecosystemic map. He ties this to the complexity of current times that practitioners are navigating alongside their clients.

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