Transcript
[0:01] [music]
[0:06] >> Hi and welcome to Beyond the Pelvis. I'm
[0:09] Laura Haraka, a somatic [music]
[0:11] practitioner, breathwork facilitator,
[0:14] and someone who's been on the healing
[0:16] journey myself.
[0:18] >> [music]
[0:18] >> I know what it's like to live with
[0:20] chronic symptoms and feel disconnected
[0:22] from your body. And I also know how
[0:24] powerful it can be when we start to
[0:25] listen, slow down, and heal from the
[0:29] inside out.
[0:30] On this podcast, we talk about the
[0:32] mind-body connection, nervous system
[0:34] healing, pelvic health, and all the
[0:36] messy, beautiful layers that come within
[0:39] learning to trust your body again.
[0:41] Whether you're brand new to this work or
[0:43] deep in your process, I'm so glad you're
[0:46] here. So, let's dive in. Welcome to
[0:49] another episode of Beyond the Pelvis.
[0:52] And today, I'm excited to welcome Joanne
[0:55] Lee Smith.
[0:57] Joanne knows firsthand what it's like to
[1:00] live with chronic pain. After a 16-year
[1:03] journey with chronic pain, she found her
[1:07] way to recovery and went on to become an
[1:09] ultra-marathon runner.
[1:11] Joanne is qualified nurse, professional
[1:15] coach, and mentor who specializes in the
[1:18] three principles approach.
[1:21] Today, she helps others move beyond
[1:23] chronic pain, fear, and limiting
[1:25] beliefs, and reconnect with their
[1:27] resilience, and regain confidence in
[1:30] their bodies. So, I'm looking forward to
[1:33] hearing more about her incredible
[1:35] journey and what she's learned along the
[1:38] way. Welcome to Beyond the Pelvis,
[1:41] Joanne.
[1:42] >> Uh thank you, Laura. It's great to be
[1:44] here. Thanks for the invite and the nice
[1:47] introduction.
[1:48] >> You're very welcome. I'm so happy we
[1:50] were able to get to meet through the
[1:54] ATNS groups that uh we meet once a
[1:57] month. So, I was lucky to get to know
[2:00] her a little bit, and she was happy to
[2:02] come on the podcast and share her story.
[2:05] So, let's start. Let's dive right in.
[2:08] Can you share a little bit about
[2:10] yourself and your background?
[2:12] >> Yeah.
[2:13] Yeah, of course. Um warning you now if I
[2:15] go on for too long cuz I'm
[2:17] I'm known for for chatting and being a
[2:18] chatterbox.
[2:20] But basically,
[2:21] um my background is in nursing in the
[2:24] NHS. And I started working for the
[2:27] health care in health care at 16 years
[2:30] old.
[2:31] Um
[2:31] and I was inspired to go on to become a
[2:33] nurse like right back
[2:35] back in 1998.
[2:38] Um so,
[2:40] um over the years I've gone on, I then
[2:42] went on to become a specialist public
[2:44] health nurse working in the community,
[2:47] mainly working with families with young
[2:49] children from pregnancy up until going
[2:51] to school.
[2:52] Um I've always worked in health care.
[2:55] And in 2018,
[2:57] I had the chance to become a coach as
[2:59] well as part of my job. Um but the long
[3:02] [clears throat] long story short is that
[3:05] when I had the chance to become a coach,
[3:07] by this time, I'd already been in 10
[3:10] years by that point of deep in chronic
[3:12] symptoms and chronic pains that I did
[3:16] not know there were going to be a way
[3:17] out for at that point. Um and it takes
[3:20] me right back to 2008
[3:23] when I first developed what I would have
[3:26] classed as chronic symptoms.
[3:28] But when I worked it out before,
[3:31] it goes before that, too.
[3:34] Um even even the even the year before
[3:37] that, I realized that I was having some
[3:40] symptoms, too. And goes right back to
[3:42] childhood. So, I'll let you um ask me
[3:45] anything [snorts] you like, and I'm
[3:46] happy to share where it all kind of
[3:48] began.
[3:49] >> Right. Yes. So, tell us a little bit
[3:50] about your symptoms. What was showing up
[3:53] for you either in 2007, 2008, or even if
[3:57] you want to bring us back to your
[3:58] childhood if your symptoms first began
[4:00] there.
[4:01] >> Yeah, I'll I'll do a little summary to
[4:03] childhood, sir. Just to begin with. I
[4:05] was kind of really prone to having
[4:07] growing pains, like aching legs. Really
[4:11] really used to keep me up a lot. I used
[4:13] to put cold flannels on my legs and
[4:15] on at the time, my dad always said
[4:18] there's no such thing as growing pains.
[4:19] He He was an Olympic gymnast. He'd had
[4:22] it a lot tougher than that and he was
[4:24] that was his approach.
[4:26] There's no such thing. So, I had to be a
[4:28] bit of a tough cookie even when I think
[4:30] back. Um I had
[4:33] I used to have go through phases where I
[4:34] had real bad stomach pains where my mom
[4:37] would end up calling an ambulance. I'd
[4:39] have to get taken to hospital.
[4:40] >> Wow.
[4:41] >> in. And they'd always put it down to
[4:44] constipation.
[4:46] Um and then that would be They wouldn't
[4:48] be chronic. They They would be these
[4:49] episodes and then they'd come and go.
[4:52] And then I'd have
[4:54] asthma attacks which were
[4:56] um needing an ambulance again and then
[4:57] being in hospital sometimes for up to a
[4:59] week needing
[5:01] um
[5:02] nebulizers and steroids, sir.
[5:05] But they were the main symptoms as a
[5:06] child, but they were nothing majorly
[5:08] chronic. Like it would be just episodes
[5:10] that would come and go.
[5:12] And then in teenage years,
[5:14] um I I developed migraines with the
[5:17] visual aura that started out around 11
[5:20] years old when I'd just be in in a
[5:22] lesson and then I just wouldn't be able
[5:24] to see. There'd be a flicker and then
[5:26] it'd become a migraine. So, they were
[5:29] the the main kind of symptoms in
[5:31] childhood.
[5:33] It wasn't really when I think back when
[5:36] um
[5:38] it was
[5:39] after the birth of my son when I
[5:41] actually really looked back over years
[5:44] when I began to learn about um
[5:46] neuroplastic symptoms, I realized
[5:50] that
[5:51] um after I'd had my son,
[5:53] I developed
[5:55] it Well, during the delivery itself, I
[5:57] had a labial tear
[5:59] which I never even knew this was
[6:01] possible. Like you're just giving birth
[6:02] to your first child. You don't really
[6:04] know
[6:05] how it's going to what's going to
[6:06] happen. But, I can
[6:08] I remember the midwife
[6:10] um making a comment about this, "Oh,
[6:12] there's a tear. Don't worry, I'm going
[6:14] to stitch this up." And
[6:16] it wasn't until the few days later that
[6:18] the midwife came to visit me at home to
[6:21] do like a a check. She said, "I'm just
[6:22] going to check your
[6:24] um wound." And she made this comment
[6:27] about it at the time. She said something
[6:29] really unusual, and it really like
[6:32] shocked me.
[6:34] And I can remember thinking, "Oh, gosh,
[6:35] it must be really bad." And it's kind of
[6:38] embarrassing what she said, because I
[6:41] was like it made me like think, "Why
[6:42] would you even say that to a a lady
[6:44] that's just had a baby?"
[6:46] And what she said to me was she looked
[6:48] She made me lie down on the sofa, and
[6:49] she said to me,
[6:50] "Oh,
[6:51] oh my She goes, "Well, let's put it this
[6:53] way." She said, "You You're lucky to be
[6:56] a porn star."
[6:58] And I know your orgasm was like mine. It
[7:01] was like short I was like, "You're lucky
[7:03] to be a porn star." And I can remember
[7:06] thinking,
[7:07] "Oh my gosh, it must be really like
[7:08] bad." Like, "Would I want to ever do
[7:11] that?" Like that was really shocking to
[7:13] me.
[7:14] So, I I must admit I shared that with my
[7:16] my husband, and I'm like, "What Why
[7:18] would she say that?" She must have just
[7:19] been making like likeness of it. She
[7:21] must have just been trying to make you
[7:23] feel
[7:24] like I don't I could never really fathom
[7:26] it out. But, I can remember being
[7:29] thinking, "Oh, it must be really bad.
[7:31] Like there must be a lot of damage."
[7:33] Anyway, long long story short, that was
[7:35] that, and I never really
[7:37] um I just can't remember it kept popping
[7:39] into my mind what what the midwife had
[7:42] said.
[7:43] But, then I do not remember the exact
[7:45] timeline, but I can remember developing
[7:47] really really extreme
[7:50] itching and burning in that in this
[7:52] area.
[7:53] The the labia. Both. Not in them just
[7:55] where the tear was. That was all healed,
[7:58] and actually
[7:59] they had healed really well. It had
[8:01] healed quite neatly, and it was quite
[8:03] low down, so it wasn't really a big
[8:05] deal.
[8:06] But, that that year after becoming a mom
[8:10] was a tough year in itself when I look
[8:13] back.
[8:14] Um my grandparents both died what very
[8:17] like within 10 weeks of each other.
[8:20] And my nana, who I was really close
[8:22] with, she had cancer throughout my
[8:24] pregnancy.
[8:25] And the week before I had my son, who's
[8:28] now 19, believe it or not, he's 19 years
[8:31] old now.
[8:32] But he she died just the week before he
[8:35] was born, so she didn't get to meet him.
[8:38] And it had been a tough time, so my
[8:41] levels of anxiety were quite high.
[8:44] Naturally.
[8:46] >> I can't even imagine what you went
[8:48] through. Um I am so sorry and I can't
[8:52] even imagine what you've been would be
[8:54] feeling
[8:55] when
[8:56] the midwife came in and shared that with
[8:59] you after just having got your body gone
[9:03] through giving birth, which is really a
[9:06] lot on the human body.
[9:08] >> Well, that was the the Well, I didn't
[9:10] even realize any of that. I was just
[9:12] getting on with it and being being my
[9:14] myself like carrying on. During the
[9:17] pregnancy, I forgot to mention that I
[9:19] had to have regular scans because I had
[9:20] too much fluid as well. So again, my
[9:23] levels of
[9:25] stress would have been higher. I had a
[9:27] grandparent that had cancer that I
[9:29] didn't know if she was going to still be
[9:31] alive when he was born.
[9:33] And
[9:34] and but I didn't really
[9:36] considered them or not connections for
[9:37] me with physical symptoms and those life
[9:40] events happening. Um
[9:43] and I actually felt quite grateful
[9:45] because
[9:46] it was really sad what had happened like
[9:48] my nana did die the week before.
[9:50] But she kind of sent me a sign cuz when
[9:53] I gave birth, my son was born with a
[9:55] veil on his face. And it's quite Well,
[9:59] it some people might have heard of it.
[10:01] It's where they have like a membrane
[10:02] going over the face. But my nana always
[10:05] used to say to me that my dad was born
[10:06] with the same and she always used to
[10:08] talk about it and say, "Oh, your dad had
[10:11] a veil and it was really weird. I never
[10:13] known anyone else had that." And when
[10:15] the son was born, he had that, too. So,
[10:18] I kind of felt some peace. Yeah.
[10:21] But But as as the time went on, I
[10:23] developed these symptoms in that area,
[10:25] which actually I never even connected as
[10:27] a neuroplastic symptom.
[10:29] And that lasted
[10:32] probably the entire year post natal
[10:34] afterwards. I'd go to the doctors. I
[10:36] They never found anything. They'd do
[10:37] swaps. They'd say, "We'll We'll test you
[10:40] for thrush. Just wear loose clothing
[10:43] wear whatever cotton underwear." I did
[10:46] all the things.
[10:47] And they never found a cause for it.
[10:50] And
[10:51] I can remember it being so uncomfortable
[10:54] and it would swell. I've never It would
[10:56] swell more than giving like the delivery
[10:58] itself. It would double like my labia
[11:00] would double in size.
[11:02] And they'd be so swollen and and burning
[11:05] and itchy. And I could not even like
[11:08] when you you could just be going to the
[11:10] toilet to wipe and then it would be
[11:13] flame. It would just be like intense
[11:15] like sitting cold water. This is how I
[11:18] coped with it.
[11:19] And during that year post natal, I would
[11:22] sit in cold water. And one
[11:24] [clears throat]
[11:25] evening,
[11:26] I'd gone to stay with my brother. And I
[11:28] can remember finding something that
[11:30] actually was helpful.
[11:32] Because I couldn't go get a a bath. Um
[11:35] like it I was staying in my brother's
[11:36] house and they were all family were
[11:38] there.
[11:39] And in the end, what I did was I found I
[11:41] went down to the kitchen to get a drink
[11:42] and I got some ice cubes.
[11:44] And I used ice cubes.
[11:47] So, rather than it going completely out
[11:49] of control, I found a way of using ice
[11:51] cubes, which helped in that moment. So,
[11:54] I kept doing it that way.
[11:56] What
[11:57] Well, long story short, I think
[11:58] eventually it just took its natural
[12:01] path.
[12:02] And I found that I just would leave it,
[12:05] use an ice cube just to alleviate the
[12:08] discomfort.
[12:10] And then
[12:12] I ended up being in a car
[12:14] So, this is where where I don't recall
[12:16] the exact order of events.
[12:18] >> Mhm.
[12:19] >> I ended up being in a car accident in
[12:21] 2008.
[12:22] So, my son was born in 2007.
[12:26] And then
[12:27] literally just 1 year
[12:29] and 1 month after he was born
[12:32] um I was in this car crash.
[12:35] And I was I'd gone back to university to
[12:37] do my training to be a public health
[12:39] nurse. We call it a health visitor in
[12:41] the UK.
[12:42] >> Okay.
[12:43] >> And so, I'm I'm literally only in my
[12:45] first week of being back at university.
[12:49] And I also had to work full-time
[12:51] to do the training.
[12:53] And I'd just dropped my son at nursery
[12:55] that morning.
[12:56] And while I was making my way there, I
[12:58] was in a a car accident where I was
[13:00] twisted. So, I sat stationary at a big
[13:03] roundabout. And the van did not stop.
[13:07] And it just came into me at full speed.
[13:09] Um cuz he I think he thought
[13:11] well, I'm not exactly sure what
[13:13] happened, but I was twisted. And I was
[13:15] briefly knocked out like cuz I'd hit the
[13:18] head
[13:19] on the side of the seatbelt panel. But
[13:22] so, I I was just I'm in this crash. And
[13:25] then
[13:26] I had all I remember is I could hear a
[13:28] ringing inside this ear. Like it popped.
[13:31] And then I looked this way, and the man
[13:32] who had hit me was at the side of my
[13:34] window asking, "Are you okay?"
[13:37] Um so, that happened
[13:39] um
[13:41] on well, literally when I'd just gone
[13:43] back to work.
[13:45] And
[13:46] we called um the ambulance and the
[13:48] police. They took me to the hospital,
[13:50] and everything checked out okay. Like
[13:53] she was good. She's got whiplash. She's
[13:56] um
[13:57] you you're going to be fine. My hearing
[13:59] came back. Everything the ringing
[14:00] stopped. It was you know, it was just
[14:02] that immediate. So, I was like, "Oh, no.
[14:04] I'm going to get I'll get back to work."
[14:06] Cuz I was panicking cuz I'd just started
[14:09] this new job, new course, highly driven,
[14:13] highly ambitious.
[14:15] You know, I would never take a day off.
[14:17] So, I went from hospital straight to
[14:19] work.
[14:20] Um my car was completely like I didn't
[14:23] have a car, so I I got literally
[14:27] a taxi from the hospital
[14:29] to the the work.
[14:31] >> Talk about stress.
[14:32] >> Oh, no. Um and I didn't take the day off
[14:35] or anything. It was just like how
[14:37] inconvenient. Do you know what's funny
[14:39] as well? I'll share this with you. I
[14:40] found this recently in my loft when I
[14:42] was just sorting some things out. I
[14:44] found the
[14:45] as part of a training we had to keep
[14:47] like a daily
[14:48] log, like a journal, of our reflective
[14:51] practice for the training. And I can
[14:53] remember I found the reflective piece
[14:55] that I'd written from that day.
[14:57] And it was really interesting when I
[14:59] read it because it it basically said
[15:02] it it really played down what had
[15:03] happened. But I did not realize I didn't
[15:06] even think it were a big deal. It was
[15:07] like I've been in car crashes before, so
[15:10] >> Yeah.
[15:10] >> I was like yeah, it was the worst one
[15:13] I'd had, but I didn't expect it to be an
[15:15] issue.
[15:16] And I'd written
[15:18] um I'd written something along those
[15:19] lines. I can't remember the exact words
[15:20] I've written, but I just put something
[15:22] like
[15:23] um
[15:24] I was a bit late in today because a car
[15:26] hit me.
[15:27] And then I'd put something like in next
[15:29] to it like
[15:31] and then it basically just went on to
[15:32] describe what I'd done in the afternoon.
[15:34] I'd been to visit a personal elderly and
[15:36] how I'd enjoyed speaking to her about
[15:38] weaning the baby. And there was
[15:40] something that I in what that I wrote
[15:41] and I thought, "Wow, Jay, that's really
[15:43] interesting that you
[15:45] you literally just put
[15:47] I was I was it was like I was a note
[15:48] that I was late in
[15:50] to work.
[15:51] Um it was like
[15:52] >> minimizing what had just happened to
[15:54] you.
[15:55] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[15:56] >> It's This is so important. I'm so glad
[15:58] you shared this story
[16:00] because it's so interesting how people
[16:02] with chronic pain have had these things
[16:04] happen to us that have put in our body
[16:06] in fight, flight, freeze, shock. And
[16:09] then we just keep going
[16:12] and go on with our day and don't give
[16:14] ourselves a chance to settle from the
[16:17] situation.
[16:19] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting because
[16:21] I wrote that years down the line only
[16:23] really in the last couple of years after
[16:25] I've made a lot of progress. And I was
[16:27] like, "Wow, Joe, how hard were you on
[16:29] yourself that day?" You literally
[16:31] dropped your newborn baby off at
[16:33] nursery. You'd had a tooth fear. I could
[16:35] look back and reflect on that comment
[16:38] and be like,
[16:39] "Gosh, most people would have taken the
[16:41] day off at least if not the next day.
[16:43] You know You know You know you got
[16:44] knocked out. You had a neck injury." It
[16:46] was all of these things, but yet you you
[16:48] continued to not want to let anyone else
[16:51] down.
[16:52] >> Mhm.
[16:54] >> And that was that. I didn't take no time
[16:56] off the entire year. I did the year's
[16:57] training.
[16:58] Um and then I had the initial like
[17:03] pain expecting it will settle like
[17:06] injuries do. And
[17:08] and um as time went on
[17:11] then the pain So, this is why why I
[17:13] don't remember exactly the order of
[17:15] events and what
[17:17] the symptoms that I was having with the
[17:19] um I'll now kind of call them vulvodynia
[17:23] symptoms cuz they do meet that criteria
[17:25] when I look back at the what I had back
[17:28] then.
[17:29] I think that might be the word that
[17:30] medic- medical system might describe it.
[17:33] >> But they never diagnosed you with
[17:35] vulvodynia at the time.
[17:36] >> No, they just kept sending me away
[17:38] saying, "We don't know what's wrong." Um
[17:41] and um and I figured it out but I'm not
[17:44] sure whether it sorted itself out.
[17:47] I don't remember the exact time.
[17:49] >> So, the pelvic pain faded away?
[17:52] >> Uh yeah, I can't remember if I if I was
[17:54] still struggling before the car accident
[17:56] or not. I genuinely don't don't
[17:58] remember. There was that much happening.
[18:00] >> Right. Yeah, of course you don't
[18:01] remember.
[18:02] >> I just don't actually remember at what
[18:05] point that settled, but the the the car
[18:08] accident took over with the most I've
[18:10] ever experienced in my life, and that's
[18:12] why I always If I was to say at what
[18:14] point did your
[18:15] um
[18:17] symptoms become a chronic symptom, then
[18:19] I would have said it was the neck pain
[18:22] from the car accident that was the the
[18:24] biggest challenge that I'd had.
[18:27] But I did
[18:28] like
[18:30] after the year back at university, I
[18:32] kind of blamed it on the study. I blamed
[18:34] it on being a busy mom.
[18:37] Um I blamed it on everything. I could
[18:40] find a reason for it because I'm I'm
[18:42] like reading a lot. I'm writing a lot.
[18:44] I'm having to do assignments.
[18:46] Um so I was like, "It's going to get
[18:48] better uh when you've finished at uni."
[18:50] Um I'd done all right the
[18:53] standard stuff, you know, like
[18:54] physiotherapy, exercising. I'm
[18:57] I'm a naturally an active person, so I
[18:59] would
[19:00] I wouldn't want to be the
[19:02] person to stop.
[19:04] But it continued. This neck pain just
[19:06] was relentless.
[19:08] It It literally took over the vast
[19:11] majority of the years that you mentioned
[19:13] at the beginning. Like at the time we
[19:15] said 16 years.
[19:18] It was the center stage, you could say,
[19:20] for a lot of that time.
[19:22] And as the time went on
[19:25] um
[19:26] this is probably further down the line
[19:29] when I realized this neck pain is
[19:31] I just kept going back to physiotherapy
[19:33] over and over and
[19:35] trying different things.
[19:36] >> Now, did they give you a diagnosis or an
[19:39] MRI that there was something going on in
[19:42] the neck?
[19:43] >> So it wasn't until after three more than
[19:45] three years that I went back and I kind
[19:48] of handled it
[19:50] alone, but they did keep giving me
[19:52] prescriptions for co- um I don't know
[19:54] what In In the UK they call it codeine
[19:57] or co-codamol.
[19:58] >> Yes.
[19:59] >> Do you know that one? It's like an
[20:01] opioid kind of medicine.
[20:02] >> Yes, I do. I do just from um having
[20:05] clients in the UK.
[20:07] >> Yeah, so they they that tended to be the
[20:10] thing that
[20:11] allowed me to cope. I I think without
[20:13] that I'm not sure I would have made it
[20:14] through.
[20:15] >> Yeah. Um so
[20:17] >> I I was on the pain relief, but
[20:20] so this is where it gets a little bit
[20:22] more interesting, the journey, because I
[20:25] had a second child. I'm not sure how
[20:27] that ever happened. Thankfully, the
[20:29] vulvodynia symptoms settled
[20:31] >> Okay.
[20:31] >> um to the point where
[20:34] I didn't have fear about intimacy and
[20:37] and those kind of things back then.
[20:39] But I um So, basically, when I was So,
[20:42] when I got pregnant with my second
[20:44] child,
[20:46] I developed
[20:48] the Well, they would have been diagnosed
[20:50] as symphysis pubis dysfunction.
[20:52] >> Mhm.
[20:53] >> SPD.
[20:54] I heard that you'll be you'll you'll
[20:56] you'll definitely know that one.
[20:58] >> Absolutely.
[20:59] >> yeah, what what I can remember is
[21:02] um and I didn't get too worried about
[21:04] this because I was um a health visitor.
[21:06] I worked with pregnant ladies and
[21:09] I'd seen this a lot and I'd seen ladies
[21:12] that were on crutches, that were
[21:13] wheelchair bound with this
[21:15] um symphysis pubis dysfunction.
[21:18] And I kept thinking, well, mine is not
[21:20] that extreme.
[21:22] But I had
[21:23] uh it started in the third literally
[21:26] only in week 12 of pregnancy.
[21:28] I was only 12 weeks pregnant and I
[21:30] started with this pubic pain
[21:32] right in the pubic bone.
[21:33] >> Yeah.
[21:34] >> It was really intense and it and it
[21:37] when you go to stand up from sitting
[21:39] down, when you go to do any motion that
[21:41] involved opening
[21:44] um your legs.
[21:45] >> Is it?
[21:45] >> It was just any motion that involved
[21:47] getting up or crossing, you know,
[21:49] going from legs crossed to legs open and
[21:51] things.
[21:52] Um
[21:53] and that was really that were a
[21:55] long-standing issue,
[21:57] but it still didn't take over the neck
[21:59] pain, if that makes any sense.
[22:02] >> Makes perfect sense, yeah.
[22:03] >> The neck pain was
[22:05] constantly in the center stage. It hurt
[22:08] a lot more than the neck pain. But I did
[22:10] develop this SPD, symphysis pubis pubic
[22:14] pain in the pubic bone.
[22:16] And actually that
[22:18] did kind of follow the expected pattern
[22:20] that
[22:21] I would have expected. So,
[22:24] the surgeon
[22:26] on pregnancy, those hormones are still
[22:28] active. And I breastfed for about 13
[22:32] months.
[22:33] >> Was it?
[22:33] >> And
[22:34] so I start that I still I understood it.
[22:38] Made sense that you can still have those
[22:40] symptoms during breastfeeding.
[22:42] >> Mhm.
[22:43] >> Um but actually they didn't settle till
[22:45] a year after stopping breastfeeding.
[22:48] By this point, this is quite interesting
[22:51] when I actually look back at it because
[22:53] I'm like, "God, I didn't know I knew
[22:54] this one up we're going through it."
[22:56] But when that part of it settled down, I
[23:00] developed
[23:02] and I I could never explain it. I used
[23:03] to think it was because of my neck cuz
[23:05] by this point my neck had been hurting
[23:07] so much for so many years.
[23:10] But I thought it's referring down to my
[23:13] lower back, my lower left back. Mhm.
[23:16] Like the
[23:17] buttock. They called it the SI, they
[23:20] called it sacroiliac joint dysfunction
[23:23] or they called it all kinds of different
[23:25] things.
[23:26] >> I'm familiar with that.
[23:27] >> Mhm.
[23:27] >> Yes, so I developed when this I remember
[23:31] it
[23:32] the pubic pain settling after about 3
[23:36] years. I'd stopped breastfeeding as I'd
[23:38] been pregnant like for 9 months of it
[23:40] and then breastfeeding for another year
[23:42] or so. And then I remember it being
[23:45] um
[23:46] once she was around 3 year old. But the
[23:50] the issue being that I had also an
[23:53] umbilical hernia
[23:55] as well.
[23:56] >> Mhm.
[23:57] >> So that was a pregnancy related
[23:59] legitimate hernia that was um
[24:03] on my belly button. My belly button was
[24:05] bulging.
[24:06] And
[24:07] this is all around about the time that
[24:09] I'm trying to
[24:11] get active like proper active because by
[24:14] this point I'm like
[24:16] going a little bit insane.
[24:17] >> Mhm.
[24:18] >> Because I'm like
[24:20] or I'm in so much pain I just I'm
[24:22] naturally a hyper active kind of person
[24:25] who loves doing active activities.
[24:28] I was trying to get back to doing
[24:30] exercise, but I couldn't because of the
[24:31] hernia. Cuz every time I tried to run,
[24:34] it would be bulging, so painful. So, I
[24:38] want
[24:39] and had I did have surgery like that
[24:41] would have that would done.
[24:43] Um that was
[24:45] um a nice easy Well, easy for me to be,
[24:48] but it was like a day surgery.
[24:50] But, all of this was happening, I don't
[24:52] know at what point this lower left back
[24:54] symptom began, but I used to blame it on
[24:56] my neck cuz I used to think I'm holding
[24:58] myself strange.
[25:00] >> Yeah.
[25:00] >> Um I'm compensating and
[25:03] >> Which sometimes we do do that with
[25:05] chronic pain conditions, right? We
[25:07] compensate or we move a certain way, and
[25:10] then we start getting an actual real
[25:12] pain from over compensating.
[25:14] >> I didn't Yeah, and I used to think I
[25:17] used to ask them and they go, "No, it's
[25:18] not possible." And the the the
[25:20] physiotherapist and doctors had said the
[25:22] two things are not connected.
[25:24] And I just couldn't understand because I
[25:26] didn't didn't know what was happening,
[25:27] really. And it was just
[25:30] And then I was in another car accident.
[25:32] And so, I'm thinking, "Well, could it be
[25:33] that?" There was just so many different
[25:35] things happening. And in the car crash,
[25:37] so I'm like, "But, then as I'm going, it
[25:39] was just a bump. It wasn't a biggie."
[25:41] And then I go, "Well, it would have
[25:42] would have triggered that."
[25:44] Um so,
[25:46] and
[25:47] so, that that had developed. So, I did
[25:50] get referred to chronic pain service and
[25:52] I went down the the road of
[25:54] Oh, and I forgot to tell you about all
[25:55] the migraines that were thrown into the
[25:57] mix.
[25:58] >> Yeah.
[25:58] >> Um there were many many many migraines
[26:00] like I never even thought of the
[26:02] migraines as chronic, but when I look
[26:04] back in hindsight, I'm I'm kind of like,
[26:07] "Yeah."
[26:08] Um they were regular
[26:10] um
[26:12] guest in my journey, these migraines,
[26:15] but
[26:16] um I'd
[26:18] Yeah, I'll get I'll get to the point
[26:19] with the running as well like why that
[26:21] came in.
[26:22] So, when I had the hernia repaired,
[26:26] this is like my opportunity cuz I had no
[26:29] reason not to
[26:30] to be running, be active now is like
[26:32] well everything's sorted.
[26:35] So
[26:36] I'm I'm on the chronic pain so I I've
[26:38] got neck issue lower back.
[26:42] Um
[26:43] >> And as I joined issue still?
[26:45] >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's that's the
[26:47] like that that becomes a very dominant
[26:50] >> Mhm.
[26:50] >> dominant symptom.
[26:52] And so they offered me the
[26:55] uh what do we call them? We call them
[26:57] like um
[26:59] steroid injections. Initially they do a
[27:01] diagnostic steroid injection. So they
[27:03] offered me that for my neck pain.
[27:05] >> Mhm.
[27:06] >> And I'm I'm and I responded really well
[27:08] to that. But like they said to me, this
[27:11] is going to help you for no
[27:12] [clears throat] more than like a couple
[27:14] of months. It short acting but it's a
[27:16] diagnostic so if that works we can do
[27:17] another procedure which will be more
[27:19] long-term.
[27:20] >> Mhm.
[27:20] >> So I went down that road I would have
[27:22] done anything by this point. I would
[27:23] have done anything.
[27:25] And they did that. It It gave me
[27:28] uh temporarily as expected the the pain
[27:31] returned.
[27:32] Um
[27:33] on the but the lower pain became more
[27:36] dominant.
[27:38] And the more dominant.
[27:40] >> Well.
[27:40] >> So the neck settled but but this was
[27:43] just like
[27:45] even more
[27:46] like
[27:47] even higher
[27:49] >> it sounds like, right? And isn't it that
[27:51] interesting this settles and that
[27:53] becomes more prominent?
[27:55] >> Yeah, we're we're like back to back to
[27:56] this area again of the body and I'm like
[27:59] And so
[28:00] I'll then went ahead and had the longer
[28:02] term radio the coding nerve ablations or
[28:04] radio frequency treatment nerve
[28:06] ablations. And they said to me that will
[28:08] last up to 2 years.
[28:10] So I'd get temporary relief with my neck
[28:13] issues and I had that done for over 13
[28:16] year period by this point. I I I'd be
[28:19] regular at every regular attendee every
[28:21] every 18 months to 2 years to go back
[28:25] and have this done with my neck. But
[28:27] they then offered
[28:30] And I will forget to tell you that I
[28:31] developed
[28:32] um other symptoms with
[28:34] on calf, chronic calf pain.
[28:37] >> Uh-huh.
[28:37] >> Chronic There's many symptoms that come
[28:39] over the period of time that just join
[28:41] in.
[28:42] So, this chronic left leg
[28:46] on the calf area just this continuous
[28:48] aching.
[28:49] Um, I also developed
[28:52] um, left my left eye just randomly
[28:55] started being blurred.
[28:57] >> Uh-huh.
[28:57] >> And it developed a foreign body
[28:58] sensation. So, it was um
[29:01] this this came on shortly after a random
[29:04] incident where it was um
[29:06] Do you have Bonfire Night?
[29:08] Do you have a bon- bonfire night?
[29:11] >> are, but I don't know if we have, you
[29:12] know, bonfire nights here, but
[29:15] >> So, in the UK we have like a the 5th of
[29:18] 5th of November it's like um
[29:20] uh they call it Bonfire Night. Um, and
[29:23] people have fireworks and bonfires and
[29:25] they do this uh don't don't test me on
[29:28] the the history, but Guy Fawkes, I
[29:30] think, is the person that tried to set
[29:32] the Houses of Parliament on fire. And
[29:34] they stopped stopped him in his tracks
[29:37] and it became like a public thing that's
[29:39] gone on for years and years, but I can't
[29:41] remember the history behind it, but I
[29:43] was um helping out at an organized event
[29:46] one evening.
[29:48] And being a nurse, I offered to do like
[29:50] any injuries, any accidents.
[29:52] >> Right.
[29:53] >> And you won't believe this, but I was
[29:55] the first person that needed first aid
[29:57] that night.
[29:58] >> Oh, no.
[29:59] >> Can you believe? I've gone out to to
[30:01] check to see if everything was looking
[30:04] okay and if anyone needed anything. And
[30:06] some floating ash in the um in the air
[30:08] just landed in my eye. So, just a little
[30:11] bit of ash. It was floating. It wasn't
[30:13] like from the fire. I was nowhere near
[30:14] the fire. It was just like a little bit
[30:17] of ash, but I was like, "Oh, I've got it
[30:19] in my eye." So, I went back and I just
[30:21] got myself an eye wash and washed my eye
[30:23] out and I thought nothing of it. I
[30:25] genuinely didn't um
[30:27] worry about it. I was like, "Oh,
[30:29] everything's fine."
[30:30] Um, and then someone else came in with a
[30:32] nosebleed and like I forgotten about it.
[30:35] And a whole month passed by.
[30:38] Well, literally a whole month passes by
[30:40] and I'm at work and this particular day
[30:41] I just could not see out of this eye.
[30:43] Blurry, blurry.
[30:45] And I started working when on my screen
[30:48] on my screen just gone gone off. Can you
[30:50] still see me okay?
[30:51] >> still see you perfectly.
[30:53] >> I think it's just the
[30:54] maybe it's the time on it. Cuz I've not
[30:57] been active on the screen.
[30:59] Hopefully it'll come back. Well, so
[31:01] basically what happened
[31:03] was
[31:04] I started work
[31:06] every night I'd go to sleep.
[31:09] And I'm I'm in pain with the neck and
[31:11] the back and the leg and I'm having a
[31:13] lot of cold showers.
[31:15] >> My God.
[31:15] >> I'm having to I'm having regular
[31:17] migraines.
[31:18] I'm having to I'm just like I already
[31:21] what I would describe I didn't even know
[31:23] I was even functioning to be a parent
[31:26] and be at work.
[31:28] And then I
[31:29] I can't open my I'm working.
[31:32] And
[31:32] >> Did you think it was because of the ash
[31:34] that went in your eye?
[31:35] >> Well, I
[31:37] the Well, this is this was the thing. I
[31:39] didn't even connect the ash
[31:40] >> Uh-huh.
[31:41] >> until I went to the doctors. And then
[31:43] when they asked me has anything
[31:45] happened? Did you get an They said they
[31:46] said something to me like, "Some people
[31:49] are cooking their nails and a little bit
[31:50] of nail might ping up and hit them in
[31:52] the eye. Or has anything hit you in the
[31:55] eye?" And I was like,
[31:57] "Oh, about a month ago
[31:59] well, just a little piece of ash on
[32:01] bonfire night came floating in my eye
[32:03] and I cleaned it out and it's been
[32:04] absolutely fine since."
[32:06] So, because
[32:08] they asked me that
[32:09] um and then you don't know he he
[32:11] basically said it was corneal abrasion.
[32:14] And gave me this verbal of corneal
[32:16] abrasion and he said,
[32:18] "You need to do um
[32:20] eye drops and
[32:22] um all these things."
[32:23] Um and that when I look back it wasn't
[32:27] You can't have a 1-month gap from having
[32:30] an an eye injury.
[32:32] >> That doesn't even make sense, right?
[32:34] >> It genuinely doesn't make sense. And it
[32:37] was
[32:38] So, this was November the 5th and my
[32:40] work when I work on the line, it just
[32:42] doesn't
[32:43] work out. Um and I'm already having all
[32:46] these other things going on. And
[32:49] And so I've been to this optician, I've
[32:51] been to Specsavers, they then referred
[32:53] me to the hospital, to the eye
[32:54] specialist.
[32:55] So, they said it's corneal erosion.
[32:58] And anyway, suddenly I then used eye
[33:01] drops for like 7 years.
[33:03] I had to sleep with gel in my eye every
[33:04] night. Um and it still didn't really
[33:07] solve the issue. I was still waking up
[33:09] with upstream discomfort and pain in in
[33:12] my eye. And it was wouldn't open.
[33:15] And it felt paralyzed as well
[33:18] at times. But I was reassured that
[33:20] you're right. I had tinnitus at one
[33:23] point. I knew I had a normal amount had
[33:25] MRIs, then I knew there's nothing
[33:27] uh dangerous going on, but yet there's
[33:29] all these symptoms.
[33:31] >> Wow.
[33:32] >> And um
[33:33] Yes, the uh there was a period of
[33:35] tinnitus as well. I forgot to mention
[33:37] that. But that was um
[33:39] only around a 9-month period
[33:41] where um I'd managed for that that
[33:44] symptom managed to resolve itself one
[33:46] day when I decided I was just going to
[33:47] listen in. I just fell asleep one night
[33:49] and just gave up with it and thought,
[33:51] I'm just going to pretend that you're a
[33:52] song.
[33:53] >> Oh.
[33:54] >> I'm just going to listen to you like I'm
[33:55] playing music and for some how and
[33:57] because I've been seen by a
[33:59] a doctor who had said
[34:01] Oh, it's this is this is nothing. This
[34:03] is a stress response, they'd said
[34:05] something and uh um but it seemed
[34:08] someone didn't do that for all the other
[34:09] symptoms.
[34:10] >> Yeah, yeah. So, it was interesting you
[34:13] thought of it as a song. And that didn't
[34:16] seem dangerous. And
[34:19] those symptoms kind of went away.
[34:21] >> Yeah, they just sort it sort it
[34:23] themselves out.
[34:24] And so, long long story short that
[34:27] that's just kind of like a little bit of
[34:29] an idea on the journey. So, what
[34:32] happened what to bring me to
[34:34] um
[34:36] becoming an ultra runner
[34:38] and becoming like learning about the
[34:40] three principles and all those other
[34:42] things. So, in in 2013,
[34:46] after the
[34:47] um hernia repair, I started getting
[34:50] involved with running.
[34:52] >> Okay.
[34:52] >> And what I found was that running
[34:54] was just a less by. It gave me a break
[34:58] from the symptoms. They weren't as bad
[35:00] when I was moving.
[35:01] >> Yeah.
[35:01] >> And then I I think basically what
[35:03] happens is I become obsessed with
[35:04] movement.
[35:05] >> Right.
[35:06] >> Um
[35:07] and gets to 2018 18
[35:11] and I get the chance to become a coach
[35:13] at work, get the chance to do some
[35:15] training,
[35:16] which is solution-focused coaching,
[35:18] which had a lot of I don't know a lot of
[35:20] cognitive behavioral therapy and it had
[35:22] a lot of approaches that would align
[35:23] with that kind of
[35:25] thing. And a lot of it was about
[35:26] thinking.
[35:27] >> Yeah.
[35:27] >> And a lot of it was about bringing the
[35:29] attention to what you're thinking.
[35:31] So, at this point, I didn't realize, but
[35:33] I had a massive Well, I did realize cuz
[35:35] I had a huge epiphany during the
[35:36] training where
[35:38] I realized that every thing that I was
[35:40] thinking,
[35:42] all the things I was saying to myself,
[35:43] all my imaginations about the future,
[35:46] all my memories from the past, they were
[35:48] all like really unhelpful.
[35:50] >> Yeah.
[35:51] >> So, in that moment, I realized, "Wow,
[35:53] this is my thinking."
[35:55] >> Yeah.
[35:55] >> And oh my gosh, I'm feeling
[35:58] like that because I'm feeling like that.
[36:01] >> Right.
[36:01] >> And
[36:02] and what happened was
[36:04] long story short,
[36:05] I at that point, I could do a half
[36:07] marathon.
[36:09] And that was really tough. I'd been bed
[36:10] all afternoon. I'd been
[36:12] >> me ask you a question. While you were
[36:13] running,
[36:14] >> Uh-huh.
[36:14] >> while you were doing these half
[36:15] marathons and running, what was
[36:17] happening with your symptoms? Were they
[36:18] there?
[36:20] >> So, they were really settled. They were
[36:22] really not there.
[36:23] >> Yeah.
[36:23] >> Well, there were different feelings that
[36:25] were there,
[36:26] >> Right.
[36:26] >> but they weren't they weren't they were
[36:28] calm.
[36:29] >> Yeah.
[36:29] >> calm. So, running really helped.
[36:33] Although,
[36:34] um
[36:36] I'd exhausted myself with it because it
[36:38] became a real big coping strategy.
[36:41] >> Yes.
[36:41] >> But the strange thing is in 2018,
[36:44] when I discovered this connection with
[36:46] thinking
[36:47] and feeling and wow.
[36:51] When I don't
[36:52] like me to do that.
[36:54] I'm
[36:55] I've got this idea that I could run a
[36:57] marathon.
[36:58] >> Uh-huh.
[36:59] >> Which was really crazy cuz I'd gone into
[37:00] this training believing that I couldn't
[37:02] even get through a day and that I don't
[37:03] even know I was ever going to survive.
[37:06] And then I drove home with this having
[37:08] had this big insight that I was going to
[37:10] do a marathon. So I ended up doing a
[37:13] marathon or trail running marathon cuz I
[37:15] really enjoyed off-road.
[37:18] And I did that for months on and this is
[37:21] like
[37:22] um
[37:23] where I guess where my running like I
[37:26] realized I can still do really big
[37:28] things
[37:29] but nothing shifted with the
[37:32] with the symptoms.
[37:33] >> Mhm.
[37:33] >> Nothing shifted. So I'll zoom ahead just
[37:36] so it would I don't want to go on all
[37:38] day but basically in 20
[37:41] um So what happened? I don't I always
[37:44] remember the dates and things like this.
[37:46] Um but we're in lockdown by this point.
[37:50] And
[37:51] um events are not really happening but I
[37:53] signed up to my first ultra marathon cuz
[37:56] I just got this like I can do a
[37:57] marathon. I can do I can do an ultra
[37:59] marathon now. And it was becoming quite
[38:02] obsessive really when I look back at it
[38:04] but it's like well if you've got to live
[38:06] like this
[38:07] and I so in the back of my mind
[38:10] how I now know well I always knew there
[38:13] was some ulterior motive in what I was
[38:16] doing because in my mind I was believing
[38:19] that if I can get really get the
[38:21] strongest that I've ever been get the
[38:23] fittest I've ever been get the
[38:25] flexiblest that I've ever been like if I
[38:27] can get myself then the back of my mind
[38:31] was believing that it were going to
[38:33] somehow we were going to have this
[38:35] miraculous recovery. So I was doing it I
[38:38] think
[38:40] out of desperation.
[38:41] >> So even though you had this epiphany
[38:44] with the thinking, right? Which was
[38:46] amazing. That was the first light bulb
[38:48] experience you had. There was still the
[38:51] intention behind the running that if you
[38:53] got stronger, you were going to be able
[38:56] >> I I was just desperate. I was so
[38:58] desperate
[39:00] like trying to find a solution. And I
[39:02] was
[39:03] I was I didn't realize it, but I never
[39:06] ever sat down. I couldn't sit down. I
[39:10] couldn't sit down
[39:12] right without pain within seconds.
[39:14] >> Okay.
[39:15] >> And it became like it I said when the
[39:17] neck pain was settled,
[39:19] this lower
[39:21] sacroiliac joint area became
[39:24] to the point where I just start I didn't
[39:25] see it as a fear, but I avoided I I
[39:28] avoided sitting, so I never sat down. I
[39:30] have stand I have a stand up desk. I got
[39:32] obsessed with hula hooping. Oh, well,
[39:34] that is my fun like hobby that I I
[39:36] absolutely love hula hooping like
[39:39] I'm so glad I did find hula hooping. It
[39:41] became like arms, legs, every part of my
[39:43] body.
[39:44] >> And your whole face lights up when you
[39:46] talk about hula hooping. You really like
[39:48] it. It was fun, right?
[39:50] >> Yeah. Yeah, that that was like the all I
[39:53] There's not a day that goes by where I
[39:55] don't spin hoops. Um but basically, I'm
[39:59] I just it was either you're either
[40:01] exercising still near working.
[40:04] I didn't even watch TV with my I what if
[40:06] I was to watch TV with my family, I'd be
[40:07] standing there hula hooping for like the
[40:09] whole time that the film is on.
[40:11] Yeah. I did this kind of behavior for
[40:13] years.
[40:14] Um where I just cuz it were either
[40:18] you're either lying down and even lying
[40:19] down was not good. I couldn't lie down
[40:21] comfortably.
[40:22] I'd be on my side. I'd have knee a knee
[40:24] cushion. I'd have a cushion in the
[40:26] whatever special neck
[40:28] It was like all the different things
[40:30] just to just to actually just curl.
[40:33] So, my strategy was movement. And it got
[40:36] me some nice trophies. It got me some
[40:38] nice achievements in ultra running.
[40:41] But it just became
[40:43] like a coping thing. And it wasn't until
[40:46] I did the first 100-mile ultra marathon,
[40:48] sir. It was a 24-hour got 24 hours to do
[40:52] a 100 miles.
[40:54] And so that was like the most I'd ever
[40:56] pushed myself to non-stop.
[40:59] I was going and going and going
[41:01] all that time.
[41:03] And
[41:04] and I literally realized afterwards
[41:08] this isn't going to work, Joe.
[41:10] You're not going to get better.
[41:12] There's something going on and I didn't
[41:14] know anything about
[41:16] neuroplasticity and so I still doubt at
[41:17] this point.
[41:19] 2023
[41:20] >> Yeah.
[41:21] >> And I went back to the doctors like,
[41:24] "I'm really out I'm exhausted. I'm out
[41:26] of I'm at the end of the line here.
[41:28] Like, is there any way you could refer
[41:30] me for help? Is there anything that
[41:32] we've missed?"
[41:34] And anyway, I got the rheumatology
[41:35] referral.
[41:37] And they diagnosed me with fibromyalgia
[41:39] at this appointment. Fibromyalgia.
[41:43] Uh
[41:44] referred me to ADHD with hyperactivity
[41:47] as well. Um
[41:49] and that got diagnosis happened like in
[41:52] the November time, 2023.
[41:55] In the January time
[41:57] 2024
[41:59] I found all about the three principles.
[42:02] >> Wow.
[42:03] >> And I was um
[42:06] kind of like thinking, this is super
[42:08] interesting.
[42:10] And it kind of I could relate to it
[42:12] because of what had happened with the
[42:13] thought in 2020 2018 with that training.
[42:17] >> Right.
[42:17] >> And um and I kind of something wanted to
[42:20] find out more about it, so I I ended up
[42:24] joining the training with David Key,
[42:27] he's called. He used to be a
[42:28] hypnotherapist and an NLP master
[42:30] practitioner.
[42:31] I am did all of these trainings myself,
[42:34] became an NLP master practitioner.
[42:37] I did like this um
[42:39] hypnotherapy training I did cognitive
[42:42] therapy tra- all kinds of different
[42:44] things, but the three principles
[42:46] training I did too. I became a three
[42:48] principles teacher.
[42:49] >> So what What the three principles for
[42:51] our listeners? What does that even mean?
[42:54] >> I know. I always thought that was like
[42:55] the three principles. What's that? So,
[42:58] they are actually mind, consciousness,
[43:00] and thought. But, it comes from um
[43:04] the Sydney Banks understanding that goes
[43:06] right back to like the 1970s along with
[43:08] Dr. Solano. These two guys, I think, are
[43:10] my legends, Dr. Solano and Sydney Banks.
[43:15] And um
[43:16] so, I didn't know about Dr. Solano by
[43:19] this point. I knew nothing.
[43:21] Um
[43:22] and so, I kind of got got into this
[43:25] approach, but what I was finding was
[43:28] I was feeling better, but nothing was
[43:31] changing with my symptoms.
[43:33] Like
[43:34] having the understanding with the three
[43:36] principles.
[43:37] Um so, like when you said, "What are the
[43:39] three principles?" Um
[43:41] it's a really lovely understanding that
[43:44] is not based upon a technique or a tool
[43:47] or anything. It's based upon
[43:50] um an understanding behind the truth
[43:52] about
[43:53] how um
[43:55] the mind works. Um
[43:58] And so, you could compare it with we all
[44:01] have thinking. We all have thought.
[44:04] We all have So, in the three principles
[44:06] understanding, mind is like the energy,
[44:08] the infinite energy, life force energy.
[44:11] >> Okay.
[44:11] >> thought it took me a while. I was like
[44:13] they said, "If If you only understand
[44:15] thinking, that's enough.
[44:17] You don't need to worry about
[44:18] consciousness
[44:20] or mind. But, just to summarize it, mind
[44:23] would be like the energy that's coming
[44:26] from the unknown source, like the power
[44:27] source.
[44:28] >> Mhm.
[44:29] >> Like Like what's actually driving the
[44:31] heart? What's driving the brain? I I'm
[44:33] quite scientific and quite nerdy, but
[44:36] um now I do have a little spiritual side
[44:38] to me, too. Um
[44:40] I'm not sure. I don't go too deep into
[44:42] these things, but what I realized was
[44:44] wow, yeah.
[44:45] You do sometimes have thoughts that have
[44:47] not been inputted. They come from an
[44:49] unknown space. They come from like the
[44:52] the bit that you can't go in there. And
[44:54] I'm like, "I do some dreams come up with
[44:56] something that I don't know where it
[44:57] came from?"
[44:58] >> Right, exactly. I think we all do,
[45:00] right?
[45:01] >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz cuz the brain can only
[45:04] really give out what I've got put in,
[45:06] can't it, to a certain extent. So, I
[45:08] used to be asking lots cuz I Well,
[45:09] what's the difference between your brain
[45:10] and the mind and all these things, but
[45:12] ultimately the mind is is the power or
[45:16] that's driving life itself. And then
[45:18] you've got consciousness, which is being
[45:21] uh the consciousness is being awake to
[45:24] the being able to have the experience.
[45:26] So, the consciousness being the senses,
[45:29] the sight, the eye, the sound, the
[45:31] feeling, um the touch, all of those
[45:33] things
[45:34] that we can't have unless we're awake
[45:36] and awake. So, if we're unconscious, if
[45:39] if I'm not knocked out, I have no
[45:41] experience. Or if I'm on aesthetic is
[45:44] the best I can is the only moment that
[45:47] I've ever experienced that on aesthetic.
[45:49] Um
[45:50] like I wasn't conscious. Um so, you
[45:53] can't have any experience. I don't
[45:55] remember having any thoughts when I had
[45:56] surgery. So,
[45:59] with without those three things, we
[46:00] don't have life experience. Without
[46:02] thought,
[46:03] again, how can we um
[46:05] the senses bring to life using
[46:07] consciousness and experience. So,
[46:10] without those three things, we just
[46:12] don't have an experience. So,
[46:15] it just really helped me to see thought
[46:18] for what it is and it allowed me to drop
[46:21] drop it and not take it so seriously
[46:24] >> Mhm.
[46:24] >> anymore.
[46:26] And um and then David Key, I shared with
[46:30] him that I was having
[46:31] um I'd been diagnosed with fibromyalgia
[46:34] and I told him about my journey. And he
[46:36] was like, "Jo, you've got to read this
[46:38] book." And this is where Dr. Sarno comes
[46:39] in, where
[46:41] he he recommended the Divided Mind.
[46:43] >> Okay.
[46:44] >> Uh I I I literally tried to do that
[46:46] while I was on holiday.
[46:48] Um it were it were more than 6 months
[46:50] later down the line that I finally
[46:53] went back and tried again.
[46:54] >> Mhm.
[46:55] >> Um because I was literally just in the
[46:57] cold shower all night not sleeping. I
[46:59] got on holiday thinking this is a good
[47:00] opportunity to do something new, but
[47:02] things were so high that I couldn't do
[47:05] it.
[47:05] >> Right.
[47:06] >> Um I thought I even thought I was going
[47:07] to try coming off medication that week.
[47:10] I'll come on holiday so I can handle it.
[47:12] I can handle whatever happens when I try
[47:13] to come off med
[47:15] It was a bit of a
[47:16] Um it didn't work out.
[47:18] >> Right.
[47:18] >> But then I went back 6 months after and
[47:21] found the other book, Mind Body
[47:22] Prescription.
[47:23] >> Yes.
[47:24] >> on Audible. And I just that's when it
[47:26] all started to happen. I listened to
[47:28] that.
[47:29] And I was ready to do something. And I
[47:31] started doing the scribbling. I just
[47:33] started doing chaos journaling. What
[47:36] What you're angry about? Took it right
[47:37] back to being
[47:39] as life could remember. Took it right
[47:41] back. Did it each day. Um The first The
[47:45] first day I did it I decided to do it a
[47:48] point when I was going to go get pain
[47:49] relief and instead I was like why not?
[47:51] What the hell have you got nothing to
[47:52] lose? You got I forgot to say that when
[47:54] the
[47:54] terminal fibromyalgia they just
[47:56] basically just said you're never going
[47:58] to get better. There's nothing. You're
[47:59] the best case outcome we've ever seen.
[48:01] Just be grateful.
[48:03] Um
[48:04] And I I there was something like saying
[48:05] no no please no. That was not
[48:09] not what what I wanted to hear. I
[48:10] actually was hoping they were going to
[48:11] say
[48:12] keep doing what you're doing and you'll
[48:13] get well.
[48:14] >> Right.
[48:15] >> Of course.
[48:16] >> in the beginning was the game changer
[48:18] that gave me enough to believe in this
[48:19] approach.
[48:20] >> Mhm.
[48:21] >> And so this is like for me it was
[48:24] unbelievable. Because within the first
[48:26] week I mentioned about that calf pain
[48:29] that I had. But like pain was gone.
[48:34] >> Really? From a week of journaling?
[48:36] >> It was gone.
[48:38] >> Wow.
[48:38] >> It was gone and I was like wow. And that
[48:41] had been my years as well.
[48:43] >> Mhm.
[48:43] >> And I was like I was hooked in enough to
[48:45] think there's something in this.
[48:47] >> Mhm.
[48:48] >> And
[48:49] And by the end of the week the symptoms
[48:51] in general were a lot lower.
[48:54] To the point where
[48:55] I did not take the pain relief.
[48:58] >> Mhm.
[48:59] >> I didn't have it anymore.
[49:01] Um
[49:02] and I was like, oh my god, wow. And one
[49:04] of my cuz my cuz I had clients, I was
[49:06] always already coaching people who were
[49:08] um
[49:09] active runners, trail runners, that were
[49:11] ultra runners. I was already coaching
[49:12] people.
[49:13] >> Right.
[49:14] >> Um but I would kind of coach them to do
[49:15] what I was doing like uh live with these
[49:18] things. When I look back in hindsight,
[49:20] I'm like, gosh, June, what were you
[49:21] doing? But I didn't know a better way.
[49:24] >> Mhm.
[49:24] >> And I had people that were really
[49:26] grateful for the help. I was helping
[49:27] them to achieve marathons, ultra
[49:29] marathons.
[49:30] Um but then because I was sharing what
[49:31] was happening with me,
[49:33] my clients were um
[49:35] having really rapid success. Some of
[49:38] them were like only 6 months or a year
[49:40] in, and they were having really rapid
[49:42] recoveries.
[49:43] Um they were like, wow. And one of my
[49:45] clients, he sent me the link for Dan
[49:47] Buglio.
[49:48] >> Uh-huh. Yeah.
[49:49] >> And I um and then I got hooked on Dan
[49:51] Buglio's daily videos. And um
[49:54] and I uh and then his book was just
[49:57] being launched. His own Pain Free You
[49:59] book was just coming out at the time. So
[50:01] I was like
[50:02] >> It was so good. And I've been having
[50:03] these incredible
[50:04] um epiphany epiphany moments with Dr.
[50:07] Sarno and mind body prescription. And
[50:09] things were feeling really good, and I
[50:11] was starting to sleep
[50:13] um because when the reduction happened
[50:15] with
[50:16] the pain in general,
[50:18] well, then I could sleep
[50:20] >> Yeah.
[50:20] >> again. And that was so amazing. Oh, that
[50:23] was like luxury for me.
[50:25] >> Yes. So, let's talk about the journaling
[50:27] for a moment.
[50:28] >> Mhm.
[50:28] >> So, I'm curious for people that are
[50:30] listening, and I really do believe
[50:32] everyone has to find their own path in
[50:36] this journey.
[50:38] So, just because you did something or I
[50:40] did something, we don't know if we don't
[50:42] have to follow mine or yours. We have to
[50:43] figure out what really works best for us
[50:45] and our body and what we need.
[50:46] >> Yeah.
[50:47] >> But I'm just kind of curious, was there
[50:49] like a system? Did you journal 20
[50:51] minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at
[50:53] night? Was it just you journaled about
[50:56] what you were feeling? How did it work
[50:57] for you?
[50:58] >> Yeah, there were no system in my my
[51:01] I don't have no systems for anything. I
[51:03] love that.
[51:04] >> Yeah.
[51:05] >> literally just grabbed a notepad.
[51:07] I'm that boy, and I did like him.
[51:11] I'm just looking at my notepad now to
[51:12] see if I can give you an example of how
[51:14] it might look.
[51:17] I don't know if you can see this or not.
[51:19] >> Yeah, we can see it. Absolutely. It's
[51:21] just like scribbling, right?
[51:22] >> I'm just writing.
[51:24] >> Yeah.
[51:24] >> It's actually just a pen on there. It
[51:26] didn't sound wrong. I don't even need to
[51:29] destroy it because I can just scribble
[51:31] all over it. So, because I don't write
[51:34] anywhere, I don't really love writing. I
[51:36] hate writing.
[51:38] I would have avoided journaling it, of
[51:40] course.
[51:41] >> So, when you say there's scribbling,
[51:42] there's no words there on that paper?
[51:44] >> No, no.
[51:45] No, there's no words. It's just a pen
[51:47] like a toddler.
[51:49] I'll see if I can zoom in for you to see
[51:50] it a little closer.
[51:53] >> Oh, wow.
[51:55] Yeah, it's just scribbling.
[51:56] >> No, no. It's just like a
[51:58] uh
[51:59] a scribble. So,
[52:01] I'm doing that while I'm just focused to
[52:04] handwrite in writing that would have I
[52:06] would have even been able to read back.
[52:08] So, I literally just I thought, well,
[52:10] what to lose? I'm just going to
[52:12] go and write back all the things that I
[52:14] had that potentially I'm annoyed at or
[52:16] angry at, all the things that have
[52:18] happened throughout life.
[52:19] >> Mhm.
[52:19] >> And I just went through.
[52:22] >> Mhm.
[52:22] >> And I didn't do it for long, maybe 10 or
[52:24] 15 minutes. And I only did it when
[52:27] things were really
[52:28] um
[52:29] going on.
[52:30] >> Mhm.
[52:31] >> So, I only did it for a week, not every
[52:34] day. I only did it every day for a week
[52:36] because I was like, "Well, this is
[52:39] Yeah, it was really strange. And because
[52:42] a lot of pain had gone,
[52:43] well, that next day, I was like, "Oh,
[52:45] I'm going to definitely go back and do
[52:46] that again." So, I just kept doing it.
[52:49] Well, at one time,
[52:51] I didn't count the time. I didn't do
[52:52] anything. I just probably filled the
[52:54] page of scribble.
[52:55] >> Yeah.
[52:55] >> And I was just thinking while I was
[52:57] scribbling,
[52:58] and then I realized
[53:00] I feel a little bit better. It's
[53:01] reducing.
[53:03] It would have been like the equivalent
[53:04] of me getting up and moving and walking
[53:07] around or going for it. I would as well.
[53:08] I could have done the same reduction.
[53:11] But instead I was writing. And um and
[53:14] there's been no resistance since. I just
[53:17] didn't want to feel like it. Sometimes I
[53:19] just feel like just scribbling on a
[53:20] piece of paper.
[53:22] Um but I don't follow any
[53:23] >> what you're feeling.
[53:25] >> Yeah, yeah.
[53:25] >> While scribbling, yeah.
[53:26] >> Yeah, thinking it out. Like just just
[53:30] kind of just
[53:31] It's like talking to myself. What I do
[53:33] these days is I do actually have I do
[53:35] actually talk out loud and do like a a
[53:38] conversation like a phone call because
[53:40] I've got basically I've been
[53:43] um It's called my digital mind. It's got
[53:45] everything all the
[53:47] all the content that I create, all the
[53:49] coaching sessions, all the lives that I
[53:51] do. And I've inputted all the data into
[53:53] a virtual digital mind. So it's like you
[53:56] can pick the phone up and you can speak
[53:58] to me. And um and but I I actually been
[54:01] training it. So I want to make sure it's
[54:03] like what I would say. So I actually
[54:06] pick the phone up and I just have a
[54:07] conversation with myself now. It's
[54:09] really interesting and fun.
[54:11] >> So is this an app that you have?
[54:14] >> Yeah, it's
[54:15] it's
[54:16] yeah, it's an app. Um and I I found out
[54:20] about it through
[54:21] David Key cuz he created one for his
[54:24] um business. And we got access to that
[54:27] so we could
[54:29] talk to him anytime we needed any
[54:31] guidance or supervision or whatever. And
[54:34] I created one of me so I now use that.
[54:37] And that's quite quick cuz I can just
[54:38] pick the phone and you can do it and it
[54:39] talks back to me. But it's a bit strange
[54:42] cuz it's me. But the voice is not exact
[54:44] so um I just use that as an approach.
[54:49] What you say everyone's unique.
[54:51] >> Yes.
[54:52] >> So
[54:53] we genuinely just got to
[54:55] try out different things. Try things
[54:57] that you would never Try the things that
[54:59] you don't want to try is my best advice.
[55:02] >> Mhm.
[55:02] >> If there's something in that there's
[55:04] some If there's some resistance in you
[55:06] that that's saying that you don't want
[55:07] to do that,
[55:08] then do it. Cuz I did not want to
[55:10] journal. I did uh
[55:13] I just hated the idea of writing.
[55:16] >> Yeah.
[55:16] >> Um but then I just caught My friend at
[55:19] work called it a page of rage, and I was
[55:20] like, "Yeah, it's a page of rage."
[55:22] >> that, a page of rage.
[55:23] >> Yeah, I liked that, too. Obviously, it
[55:26] like lit me up in it.
[55:28] It helped in the beginning, but it
[55:29] wasn't just all that that that it was
[55:32] like a
[55:33] very long process.
[55:34] >> Yeah.
[55:35] >> A very long process.
[55:37] >> Mhm.
[55:37] >> And I
[55:38] I pretty much did everything, you know,
[55:40] that you could do
[55:42] along the way
[55:43] >> Yeah.
[55:44] >> to to get to where I am today.
[55:47] >> Yeah, so you tried other techniques
[55:48] besides the scribbling.
[55:50] >> Yeah, all kinds of things, hypnotherapy,
[55:53] >> Mhm.
[55:53] >> um somatic movement,
[55:56] >> Mhm.
[55:56] >> um
[55:57] inner child stuff, all the
[56:00] visualizations, all the things on Cure
[56:02] Ball. I really love Cure Ball. I think
[56:03] that's brilliant.
[56:05] >> Uh-huh.
[56:05] >> I really find that useful.
[56:07] Um
[56:09] NLP stuff, because I trained as a
[56:12] uh
[56:12] master practitioner for NLP,
[56:14] >> Mhm.
[56:15] >> which is really lovely. Um
[56:17] all kinds of different things.
[56:19] >> Yeah.
[56:20] >> Um but as time was going on, like I
[56:22] joined Dan Brugliera's group. I was um
[56:25] in his group for 6 months. I went every
[56:27] single week to the group coaching.
[56:30] >> Um
[56:31] I did what Some of the thing I got I got
[56:33] so many ideas from his book that I was
[56:34] like, "Wow, Joe, I wore sunglasses my
[56:37] whole life." Like I had
[56:39] extreme light sensitivity.
[56:41] >> Uh-huh.
[56:42] >> Um I had all these
[56:44] uh sensory issues, and I was like, "I'm
[56:48] going to go out I'm going to I'm going
[56:50] to do this. I'm just going to go out and
[56:52] just peek out of them for the you know,
[56:54] bit by bit." I started running with
[56:56] >> even, right?
[56:57] >> Yeah, I started running without them.
[57:00] I could go out in the sunlight. I did a
[57:02] marathon in nursing, you know, just bit
[57:04] by bit things were happening. And then I
[57:07] was building up to running marathons
[57:09] again without any pain relief,
[57:10] whatsoever.
[57:11] >> Yeah.
[57:12] >> Which is incredible because the ultra
[57:14] marathons I
[57:16] I used codeine to get through doing
[57:18] them.
[57:19] >> Mhm.
[57:19] >> But by this point, I'm now able to do
[57:21] all those things without pain relief, no
[57:24] more appointments, no more injections.
[57:27] >> Wow.
[57:27] >> No more I I I want
[57:30] I've got rid of everything.
[57:32] I had acupuncture mats, I had special
[57:35] um
[57:37] like I had hot and cold plaster I had on
[57:39] all the time. I'd do special stretches
[57:41] every day. I stopped all of that.
[57:44] I did what Dr. Sarno said, repeatedly
[57:46] out the physical.
[57:47] >> Yep.
[57:47] >> I did take it quite extreme. And then
[57:49] there were a few days where I did have
[57:50] to give in and go, "You know what, Joe?
[57:52] Look after yourself today."
[57:54] You know, you don't have to be a
[57:55] warrior, you don't have to be a fighter.
[57:57] Like it's okay. And the self-care and
[57:59] compassion and
[58:01] learning to
[58:03] actually
[58:04] be proud of myself and a lot a lot of
[58:07] those things were big team.
[58:09] >> Yeah.
[58:09] >> Um there was there's so many other
[58:11] parts, you know, to the
[58:13] the puzzle that
[58:15] as time went on, things have got easier
[58:17] and easier.
[58:18] >> Yeah. Yeah, your your story
[58:20] >> I've completely banished that. I never
[58:21] knew that was possible. I didn't even
[58:23] know chronic migraine could
[58:25] I didn't believe Dr. Sarno when he used
[58:27] it as an example in his book Mind Body
[58:28] Prescription and he said
[58:30] that when it's first happening, you can
[58:33] just take a bath and and just
[58:36] ask yourself, "What do I need to
[58:37] acknowledge right now? You know, what
[58:39] does on that I love and miss?" I had to
[58:41] do that three times before I believed it
[58:43] was possible.
[58:44] >> Right, yeah.
[58:46] Yeah, I'm kind of curious because
[58:48] if it's okay, you said you used a lot of
[58:50] different things
[58:52] to help yourself get better and I did,
[58:55] too. I used a lot of techniques to help
[58:58] myself. It wasn't just one thing and I
[59:00] want our listeners to understand that
[59:03] they don't have to make healing a job,
[59:06] either.
[59:06] >> Yeah, definitely.
[59:07] >> want them running around from one thing
[59:09] to the next thing to the next thing and
[59:11] I'm wondering if you can just comment on
[59:12] that for a moment.
[59:13] >> Yeah, yeah, for sure because that is
[59:15] that is the big learning curve and I
[59:17] don't want anyone to have to do like
[59:18] what I did, too.
[59:20] Um, because
[59:22] you there's just no need for it, is
[59:24] there? The whole The The best solution
[59:28] is just not to fit what is just to
[59:31] to know that there is nothing to fix and
[59:33] that's why I love this approach aligns
[59:35] really well with three principles is
[59:37] that
[59:39] we have the innate ability
[59:41] there is nothing to fix so in which case
[59:45] I do do the different approaches that
[59:47] you would do
[59:48] anyway.
[59:50] So, for me, I would enjoy listening to a
[59:53] bedtime sleepcast instead of a podcast.
[59:56] It's called a sleepcast. Yes. Um, me and
[59:59] my husband and I'll listen into that
[1:00:00] together like it it it benefits, too.
[1:00:02] So, we put it on loud and we both will
[1:00:04] go to sleep. We'll do that anyway. Yeah.
[1:00:07] Um, like who I'm hoping I'd do anyway.
[1:00:10] Yeah. Um,
[1:00:12] I
[1:00:13] I had to stop doing a lot of things
[1:00:15] Right.
[1:00:16] that that were um
[1:00:18] what I would have classed as
[1:00:21] an ulterior motive trying to fix myself.
[1:00:24] It's And they weren't they weren't
[1:00:25] required. Um, because again, like
[1:00:29] that's part of what's keeping the
[1:00:30] symptoms alive and going is that
[1:00:33] unintentional fuel by thinking that we
[1:00:36] need to do all these things. That's why
[1:00:38] I like the three principles because it's
[1:00:40] no tools, no techniques, no approaches.
[1:00:41] It's purely understanding. Yeah. And do
[1:00:44] the things that feel good that you would
[1:00:46] do anyway that you love.
[1:00:47] Exactly. Exactly.
[1:00:49] >> have I gone a bit
[1:00:50] >> No, that's perfect because, you know, so
[1:00:53] many of us try to fix ourselves and use
[1:00:55] tools to fix ourselves instead of how
[1:00:58] can I support myself right now what I
[1:01:02] would do anyway. I love that message.
[1:01:05] >> I've stopped doing The last day I did my
[1:01:07] marathon it was back in January.
[1:01:09] I've stopped doing as much long
[1:01:11] distance. I've stopped doing a lot.
[1:01:14] Um, which is so lovely
[1:01:17] because it's freeing when you realize
[1:01:19] that you can get better by doing less.
[1:01:21] >> Exactly.
[1:01:22] >> It's powerful. It's just so nice. It's
[1:01:25] like, "Oh, I can breathe again."
[1:01:27] And I've so much more time.
[1:01:29] >> Exactly. Exactly. It's like just pick a
[1:01:31] few things that support your body, that
[1:01:33] make you feel good, that we should be
[1:01:35] doing anyway, like compassion,
[1:01:38] self-care, not pushing through accidents
[1:01:41] and taking the day off
[1:01:43] or a week off when we've been through a
[1:01:45] trauma. It's like really taking care of
[1:01:47] us the way we're supposed to be taking
[1:01:48] care of.
[1:01:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't
[1:01:50] even have running a marathon on my
[1:01:52] bucket list. That was never in my
[1:01:54] um, aspirations. I never even had that.
[1:01:56] It was literally I did it because I
[1:01:58] thought I was going to fix myself doing
[1:01:59] that.
[1:02:00] >> Exactly.
[1:02:01] >> And now I can run for the fun of it, you
[1:02:03] know.
[1:02:03] >> Yeah.
[1:02:04] >> I um, I'm I'm
[1:02:06] in December I'm going to do a 21-mile
[1:02:08] trail run at Sir
[1:02:10] Mo the Warrior. It's a Christmas thing.
[1:02:12] It's a fun thing. It's a festive thing
[1:02:14] and I'm like, I can just do it for the
[1:02:16] fun of it. I I've got nothing to fix.
[1:02:19] >> Yeah.
[1:02:19] >> And on the back of it I'm better than
[1:02:21] I've ever been. I've seen the usual pain
[1:02:24] going on in that SI area.
[1:02:27] >> Mhm.
[1:02:27] >> Um,
[1:02:28] it it's like like I can sit for hours on
[1:02:31] that.
[1:02:32] >> Yeah.
[1:02:32] >> I couldn't before. I was I was literally
[1:02:35] having to be stood the whole time.
[1:02:37] So, yeah. I'll um,
[1:02:40] I'll leave it there for you cuz I know
[1:02:41] we've been talking for a long time, so
[1:02:44] >> Yeah, that's okay. Your story was
[1:02:46] incredible.
[1:02:47] Absolutely incredible and I'm so happy
[1:02:50] for your journey and that you were able
[1:02:53] to share this with my audience. I really
[1:02:55] truly appreciate that. And I'm curious
[1:02:58] if anyone wants to connect with you, how
[1:03:00] could they find you?
[1:03:02] >> Oh, hopefully they'll be able to find me
[1:03:04] on the um, ATNS, you know, on the what
[1:03:07] do you call it, directory?
[1:03:09] >> Great.
[1:03:09] >> Um, and I can send you the links for my
[1:03:12] social medias.
[1:03:13] Joanne Lee Alderley, that's my previous
[1:03:17] uh, that's my maiden name, Alderley.
[1:03:19] Joanne Lee Smith.
[1:03:21] Um on Facebook, Instagram
[1:03:24] TikTok
[1:03:25] um
[1:03:26] LinkedIn I think I'm on all of those.
[1:03:29] And my website which is www.
[1:03:34] Seraphic
[1:03:35] S E R A P H Oh, I can't even spell it
[1:03:39] myself. S E R A P H I C Seraphic Active
[1:03:46] with an E on the end dot com. So
[1:03:48] Seraphic Active. It means
[1:03:51] Angelic smile cuz
[1:03:53] a lot of people kept calling me an
[1:03:55] angel.
[1:03:56] And I wanted to find a word that had
[1:03:58] meaning
[1:04:00] um to what I was doing and Seraphic came
[1:04:03] up and I thought, I like that.
[1:04:06] Seraphic Active
[1:04:07] So that's my website.
[1:04:10] >> Yeah, I love that. I love that. We're
[1:04:11] going to put all of your information in
[1:04:14] the show notes. So I just wanted to
[1:04:16] thank you again so much for coming on
[1:04:18] the podcast and sharing your story and
[1:04:21] being so vulnerable with me to share all
[1:04:23] the details. We really appreciate it. So
[1:04:26] thank you for coming.
[1:04:27] >> Oh, thank you so much. Really um hope
[1:04:30] it's useful for anyone listening. Thank
[1:04:32] you for having me.
[1:04:33] >> I know it will be.
[1:04:35] >> Brilliant. Oh, I'm pleased. Thank you so
[1:04:36] much.
[1:04:39] >> Thank you so much for tuning in to
[1:04:41] Beyond the Pelvis. If today's episode
[1:04:44] resonated with you, I invite you to join
[1:04:46] us inside the Pelvic Healing Circle. A
[1:04:49] supportive space for deeper healing,
[1:04:51] connection, [music]
[1:04:52] and transformation.
[1:04:54] And if you enjoyed the show, it would
[1:04:56] mean the world if you took a moment to
[1:04:57] leave a review on Apple Podcast.
[1:05:00] >> [music]
[1:05:00] >> Your words help others find this podcast
[1:05:03] and remind them that healing is
[1:05:05] possible.
[1:05:06] >> [music]
[1:05:06] >> Until next time, stay connected to your
[1:05:08] body, trust your inner wisdom, and keep
[1:05:11] going beyond the pelvis.
[1:05:25] >> Hey.